TiVo Fall 2007 Update Apparently Breaks TivoToGo/Toast on the Mac - Page 3

roadkill_97006 · 10-23-2007, 02:44 PM

I have 2 Series 2s and can transfer just fine, view the downloaded shows just fine, but I have the n/a channel ID problem and the 0%-1% encoder hang. I have no clue why sometimes it's 0% and others 1% - all with the same downloaded file.

I have a bit of a new wrinkle, though. The show I can't burn is one of a pair of SG Atlantis shows I downloaded AT THE SAME TIME. Highlight 2 shows and then transfer them with one click. The clue, I think, is that one of the 2 shows was recorded prior to the FU and the other after. "I think" is the operative point here. I'm not prepared to swear to that, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. I have another fairly old show I'm going to try to see if pre-FU files still work.

roadkill_97006 · 10-23-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill_97006

I have another fairly old show I'm going to try to see if pre-FU files still work.

OK, I'm stumped. I downloaded a show recorded way prior to the FU and yet it hangs with zero cpu use in the activity monitor. What's confusing me so much is that I downloaded 4 SG Atlantis shows (the seasons' first 4) and was able to burn 3 of them with no problem (other than it takes FOREVER to download and encode the things). I downloaded all 4 of them the same day, way after the FU. Why the heck did 3 work????

shulcslt · 10-23-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill_97006

OK, I'm stumped. I downloaded a show recorded way prior to the FU and yet it hangs with zero cpu use in the activity monitor. What's confusing me so much is that I downloaded 4 SG Atlantis shows (the seasons' first 4) and was able to burn 3 of them with no problem (other than it takes FOREVER to download and encode the things). I downloaded all 4 of them the same day, way after the FU. Why the heck did 3 work????

As far as I can see, there's no READILY APPARENT pattern as to why some shows will encode and others not. I transferred three shows, all recorded last night, on the same box - two encoded, one didn't. This is a repeatable for me.

Sluggo042 · 10-23-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shulcslt

As far as I can see, there's no READILY APPARENT pattern as to why some shows will encode and others not. I transferred three shows, all recorded last night, on the same box - two encoded, one didn't. This is a repeatable for me.

When you say that it is repeatable, do you mean that of those two shows that did encode, they will always encode, and that the show(s) that don't encode will never encode no matter how many times you try?

Is there any difference in the recording quality you're using on your Tivo with these shows? By which I mean, perhaps the Tivo recording quality has something to do with it. Purely a guess.

Doug G.

TiVo Kid 2003 · 10-23-2007, 07:47 PM

Just wondering - has anyone contacted TiVo about this & offered to upload a damaged file? (Full disclosure: I haven't because I have convinced myself it would be like p***ing in the wind. In that sense I'm part of the problem.) Is that something the TiVo engineers will even entertain?

I'm just wondering because (as a firmware engineer) I always tell my customers, "if you can reproduce the problem, tell me how [ in this case - send TiVo the file ] and I can find & fix it."

I'm also wondering if the small amount of attention this is getting is reflective of how many people actually download content from the TiVo. I do it all the time, my 2 friends w/ TiVos do.... but maybe we are part of a very small minority?

griz · 10-23-2007, 08:02 PM

Well, 9.1 has broken Tivo To Go through both Popcorn3's Tivo transfer and through Tivo Decode Manager. Both just say "Waiting for Tivo".
I thought the Roxio Option was fully sanctioned by Tivo. You would think they would test this before releasing the update.
We need to make some noise about this. I'm sending a message to Roxio and Tivo right now.

griz · 10-23-2007, 08:26 PM

Well, I seem to have solved my problem while on hold with Tivo. I just rebooted the tivo and all is good. Before that I went into my account and I disabled transfers and download and then re-enabled them. Not sure it that or the reboot helped.
Anyway. I am off and downloading once again using 9.1.

Sluggo042 · 10-23-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiVo Kid 2003

Just wondering - has anyone contacted TiVo about this & offered to upload a damaged file? (Full disclosure: I haven't because I have convinced myself it would be like p***ing in the wind. In that sense I'm part of the problem.) Is that something the TiVo engineers will even entertain?

I'm just wondering because (as a firmware engineer) I always tell my customers, "if you can reproduce the problem, tell me how [ in this case - send TiVo the file ] and I can find & fix it."

I'm also wondering if the small amount of attention this is getting is reflective of how many people actually download content from the TiVo. I do it all the time, my 2 friends w/ TiVos do.... but maybe we are part of a very small minority?

TiVo Kid,

As a guy who used to do testing on set top boxes for a living, I agree with your sentiment. That's part of why I've been paying so much attention to this thread, and similar ones on the Roxio and Tivo sites, and trying to ask questions that might narrow and define the problem.

However, given that the only acknowledgement anyone seems to have received on this issue has come from an off-duty Roxio guy (and even he seems to have zipped his lip on the subject), and given the repeated recitations of extremely unhelpful customer "service" on the part of Tivo itself seen in any situation, I'd guess that any such suggestions of assistance would not be heard. Had they any interest in such data, it would be a trivial matter for one of their technical types to post at any one of these discussion sites and request it. I'm not holding my breath.

I'd settle for an update from anyone at TiVo or Roxio as to the ETA of a fix. Are they working on a fix, or are they still figuring out what the problem is? If there is a fix, is it in QA, or are there still weeks of coding ahead? I don't see why it is so impossible to at least tell us what is going on. All secrecy buys them is ill will from the customers.

Doug G.

Sluggo042 · 10-23-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griz

Well, I seem to have solved my problem while on hold with Tivo. I just rebooted the tivo and all is good. Before that I went into my account and I disabled transfers and download and then re-enabled them. Not sure it that or the reboot helped.
Anyway. I am off and downloading once again using 9.1.

When you say "9.1" are you referring to TiVo software? If so, does this mean the software distributed as the Tivo Fall 2007 Update? Or is this an update of the Update?

Doug G.

shulcslt · 10-23-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sluggo042

When you say that it is repeatable, do you mean that of those two shows that did encode, they will always encode, and that the show(s) that don't encode will never encode no matter how many times you try?

Is there any difference in the recording quality you're using on your Tivo with these shows? By which I mean, perhaps the Tivo recording quality has something to do with it. Purely a guess.

Doug G.

By repeatable, I mean that it happens consistently with files transferred after the 9.1 update. I transferred two files the morning after I received the update, quickly tried one to see if it would work, as before, and was reassured when it did. Later in the day, I tried the second, it hung at 0%.

Since then, I've been able to encode/burn half a dozen files and not been able to with 5. Doesn't matter which of my two Humax DRT800s created the file, there's no difference in the recording settings box to box, or show to show. At one point, I thought that the variable was show length, but that proved not to be the case. Repeated attempts to burn the same files didn't change the results.

Haven't been able to see a pattern.

FWIW, I'm not seeing any of the reported problems transferring the files from the TiVos to my Mac.

Sluggo042 · 10-23-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shulcslt

By repeatable, I mean that it happens consistently with files transferred after the 9.1 update. I transferred two files the morning after I received the update, quickly tried one to see if it would work, as before, and was reassured when it did. Later in the day, I trioed the second, it hung at 0%.

Since then, I've been able to encode/burn half a dozen files and not been able to with 5. Doesn't matter which of my two Humax DRT800s created the file, there's no difference in the recording settings box to box, or show to show. At one point, I thought that the variable was show length, but that proved not to be the case. Repeated attempts to burn the same files didn't change the results.

Haven't been able to see a pattern.

It is interesting that you have more than one Tivo. There's a thread with the same topic I started over on the Roxio board where we've been talking a bit about installations having more than one Tivo. As near as I've been able to tell, the metadata change is especially troublesome to multi-Tivo setups. Not surprising, as the various Tivos have to pass that metadata back and forth to keep everyone's list up to date. But, having only the single unit myself, it's not something I can test.

If you feel like being scientific, you might try turning off one of your Tivos, and see if and how the symptoms change.

I presume the split between encodeable files is not the difference between files recorded by the Tivo before and after the Update.

What's got me about all of this is how variable the symptoms are. In my setup, I can transfer, but I cannot encode, and I've seen no exceptions to this. You and others are reporting some successful encodes. Maybe we should get a little more specific about the term 'encode'. When I'm encoding, I'm doing it exclusively for burning to DVD. Is that how you mean it as well, or are you encoding to some other format, like something viewable on your computer? Perhaps the endoding settins are the difference between our situations.

Doug G.

Sluggo042 · 10-23-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shulcslt

FWIW, I'm not seeing any of the reported problems transferring the files from the TiVos to my Mac.

Oh, one other quick question. After you've transferred the files from Tivo to Mac, and can see the program in your Tivo Transfer window, do you at least see that the titles are screwed up, and that some of the columns (episode, duration, channel) are missing data altogether? That would match my symptoms.

Doug G.

shulcslt · 10-23-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sluggo042

Oh, one other quick question. After you've transferred the files from Tivo to Mac, and can see the program in your Tivo Transfer window, do you at least see that the titles are screwed up, and that some of the columns (episode, duration, channel) are missing data altogether? That would match my symptoms.

Doug G.

Doug,

I've read the thread(s) on the Roxio and TiVo boards.

I'm encoding to burning to disk. The episode info is displaying properly in TiVo Transfer's "TiVo DVR" screens, but not on the "Library" screen.

Can't imagine how having more than one TiVo can be the variable for the encoding problem.

Jon

griz · 10-23-2007, 10:22 PM

OK, so I solved the transfer problem, but now the files won't decode. Is this process really that difficult for these companies to get right? Off I go to Roxio support once again. Should hear back in a few weeks. Their support is slower than molasses.

griz · 10-23-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sluggo042

When you say "9.1" are you referring to TiVo software? If so, does this mean the software distributed as the Tivo Fall 2007 Update? Or is this an update of the Update?

Doug G.

9.1 is the fall update. It's actually 9.1.something, but in any case. It's the most recent fall update.

TiVo Kid 2003 · 10-23-2007, 10:58 PM

A few posts above there was mention of multiple TiVos. I have 2 Tivos but I've only had problems with the Humax-made TiVo.

What I should do is record the same damn program with the same damn settings with both TiVos, transfer both programs, and *maybe* the Humax one will be messed up. Then I could point and say, "Tivo, explain why the files aren't the same."

The problem is that only about 10-20% of the files are messed up, so that exercise could be a painful one.

Maybe it's time to switch to MythTv. Problem is that I can't say that without feeling like I'm lithping.

Peter000 · 10-24-2007, 01:29 AM

My TiVos were just activated with TTG, but one of them hangs when transferring, between 10-17kb. I'm not quite sure what to to about it.

Peter000 · 10-24-2007, 12:22 PM

Okay, so after the 9.1 update, the TTG feature actually worked, and I transferred a show to my laptop. This was an HD show.

Problems:
It didn't transfer to the directory I specified... it tranferred to the "default" TiVoShows directory, even though I changed it.

After the transfer, what do I play the file with?? First I tried playing it from TiVo to go and it said "You need a registerd copy of Toast to do this." I DO have a registered copy of Toast, thank you. Well, I finally found the drop-down inside of Toast for the "Toast Video Player" but it plays it at some sort of weird double speed. No other player on my system seems to work.

I'm currently encoding it to play to my AppleTV... Hopefully that will work.

Are there any editing applications I can use to cut out the commercials before I transcode it? Or at least trim the beginning and end?

oo7plyr · 10-24-2007, 12:54 PM

I too have experienced this double speed playback. It's annoying.

griz · 10-24-2007, 07:41 PM

I just opened a trouble ticket with Roxio. My problem is still with transfers hanging, but not consistently. When they do complete, they will not transcode. This is unacceptable since that was the whole point behind me buying Popcorn for the Mac in the first place.
Interestingly enough, I can no longer decode files with the Tivo Decode Manager. Has Tivo changed the encryption with this roll out to break things like Tivo Decode Manager? Well, if so, Roxio apparently is slow in getting their act together and making it work with their software. Or Tivo is slow in getting them the info they need to make it work. This is the kind of crap that made people hack it in the first place. Tivo either needs to deliver a solution that works or just come out and say they are no longer allowing you to transfer content to other devices like ipods and AppleTV. Then we can all know and move on. I for one will drop Tivo in a heartbeat and move to an Elgato EyeTV.
I may just do it anyhow. I'll also be demanding my money back for Popcorn since it is no longer useful in its present form.
There is no excuse for them to be lagging behind this rollout of the Fall Update.
GET IT TOGETHER ROXIO AND TIVO, YOU HAVE 2 WEEKS BEFORE YOU LOSE A CUSTOMER!

Sparkylulu · 10-25-2007, 04:28 PM

Has there been any movement on fixing this problem or are we sol?

Timber · 10-25-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oo7plyr

I too have experienced this double speed playback. It's annoying.

+1

But if I use Toast and export to MOV its fine.

I'm a little disappointed that Roxio aren't ready for us, as they were part of TiVo's beta process (hopefully) I'd expect answers and dates.

(Oh and when I go to the Roxio site to register Toast 8 I can't, the last version in the drop down is Toast 5.)

-=Tim=-

Sparkylulu · 10-25-2007, 09:27 PM

Yeah! only 5! What is up with that?

mattman · 10-25-2007, 10:02 PM

As a note, I cannot see my Series3 in the TiVo Transfer app, but I can transfer just fine from the Series 2 I own. I cannot, it seems, convert to iPod, or from what I can tell, burn a DVD. I will try some more options and see what happens.

Skinny Kid · 10-25-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattman

As a note, I cannot see my Series3 in the TiVo Transfer app, but I can transfer just fine from the Series 2 I own. I cannot, it seems, convert to iPod, or from what I can tell, burn a DVD. I will try some more options and see what happens.

My Series3 disappeared too. TiVo transfer has no idea where it is. Series2 still shows up fine but hangs while burning just like everyone else's. I am running out of HD space. I only have 22.59 gigs left of a 1 tb drive. I'm dying over here.

Supermurph · 10-25-2007, 11:04 PM

I'm using Popcorn and sometimes it hangs at 0% when I try to convert the Tivo file, but more often I get "Mac OS Error: Result code 1718449215". I searched Google for this code and it appears to be audio related. My thinking for now based on the other posts to this string are that it's the metadata issue confusing the Mac. I also posted a ticket to Roxio.

gglockner · 10-26-2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermurph

I'm using Popcorn and sometimes it hangs at 0% when I try to convert the Tivo file, but more often I get "Mac OS Error: Result code 1718449215". I searched Google for this code and it appears to be audio related. My thinking for now based on the other posts to this string are that it's the metadata issue confusing the Mac. I also posted a ticket to Roxio.

Bingo! I came to the exact same conclusion. I'm using Popcorn 3 to get files off a Series 3 with 9.2. I can download the .tivo files to the Mac, and I can play them fine with the Toast Video Player. If I open Popcorn and try to convert the .tivo files for the Video iPod, I also get error 1718449215. Since this is an audio problem, I then tried a custom setting where I set the Audio Format to none, and voila -- Popcorn converts the file with no problems at all!

So my educated guess is that Toast/Popcorn use some Apple libraries (Quicktime? Core Audio?) to convert the audio track, yet TiVo 9.x software changed the format for the audio track, which is causing the error.

I also tried TiVoDecode Manager and I have similar problems -- it can download the files from TiVo but not convert them to another format.

TiVo Kid 2003 · 10-26-2007, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gglockner

So my educated guess is that Toast/Popcorn use some Apple libraries (Quicktime? Core Audio?) to convert the audio track, yet TiVo 9.x software changed the format for the audio track, which is causing the error.

Now that you mention it, my video editing software (VideoReDo, Windows) also complains about tons of audio sync errors on the files that don't work.

patatrox · 10-26-2007, 03:48 AM

I appreciate everyones patience and I believe we now have a viable solution to the issue introduced with the Fall '07 DVR update. We're not quite ready to release this as an official update, as we finish up testing on the release version of Leopard over the next few days.

What I would like to do however is ask if anyone is interested in testing a beta version of Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 with these fixes and provide feedback to me.

UPDATE: < BETA TESTING IS CLOSED >
Thanks!

raianoat · 10-26-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patatrox

I appreciate everyones patience and I believe we now have a viable solution to the issue introduced with the Fall '07 DVR update. We're not quite ready to release this as an official update, as we finish up testing on the release version of Leopard over the next few days.

What I would like to do however is ask if anyone is interested in testing a beta version of Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 with these fixes and provide feedback to me.

If you're a Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 user, please send an e-mail to toastfeedback@roxio.com with your name and which product that you own. (Toast 8 or Popcorn 3)

Thanks!

Thanks for keeping us up to date. Do you expect this update to fix the bug where transferred recordings playback at twice the normal speed?