TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-02-2007, 10:37 PM   #61
pashasurf7873
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 69
not sure why TWC has extended the SDV implementation from sept 24th. TWC rep told me the new D-Day is going to be oct 9th.
pashasurf7873 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 01:04 AM   #62
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobrien
Other than premium and ppv, there are only 15 HD channels that TWC provides today. Do we know which 5 are going to be available for CableCard/Tivo HD?
No HD channels will be available, TWC will not sell the HDTV package to new CableCard customers (despite what is says on TWC web site, call and try to buy). Post #12 in this thread has a list for existing customers, but that list is subject to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobrien
Happily. Do you know the appropriate state regulatory body?
http://www.hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/catv/complaint/

This initiates a process, sadly do not expect 'Super Regulator' to come flying out of a phone booth as soon as your fax arrives. It is of course still important.

And talk to a manager (or three) at TWC.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007, 10:10 PM   #63
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
An update for you all :

1) State regulator called "will talk to TWC".

2) Tivo called, "is working on the issue".

3) TWC emailed, no change in position except for a bizzare offer that sadly TWC probably thinks is a good deal! Body of e-mail follows:

----------------------------------email start--------------------------------------------
Aloha, I have spoken with The Director of Customer Service, the Big Island will continue to comply with our divisional directives. We would like to offer you some alternatives that we will keep in place until two way devices such as TV and TiVo are available for public purchase.

Offer –
Box (s) at cable card rate $ 2.40
FREE- IPG w/music choice
Free DVR for 1 TV

The box will give you the ability to order:
Pay Per View
On Demand Movies
Interactive Guide

The solutions offered will give you more ability. It was recommended, if applicable, for consumers to take advantage of TiVo's 30-day Return plan . Later when TiVo comes out with a two way solution, you will be able to get all the benefits and two way abilities.

Please keep in mind that HDTV Broadcast channels can still be view with your one way cable card. Also if your HDTV has a built in tuner you can view the HD Broadcast channels. Our HD Entertainment Pak can not be viewed with out the cable box.

IF you would like to take advantage of our offer, please let me know and I will assist in helping to get everything set up for you. Again we thank you for your continued support.

Mahalo,
--------------------------------------email end--------------------------------------------

On further examination of the TWC web site I see that the local TV stations (as HDTV) are not included in the HD Entertainment Pak (or for that matter any other package including standard).

Needless to say the offer is not appealing to me.

Please express your opinions to the state regulator.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2007, 02:16 AM   #64
moyekj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 9,185
All things considered that's not a bad gesture from TWC - they could have just said screw you and offered you nothing. Nevertheless I agree it's a big step down in functionality - I think you also need to lobby Tivo/Cable hard to get that dongle solution out sooner than later...
__________________
Roamio Pro, Elite, Premiere
Cox - Motorola CableCards & TAs
Slingbox 350 via TiVo Mini & TiVo Stream for remote viewing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
moyekj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2007, 06:25 AM   #65
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 343
I just noticed this thread today. Apparently the rollout excludes Maui for now. I haven't received anything yet, and I just checked the last two bills online, and there was nothing there. I take it most of you are on Oahu, and one of you that can't get them to sell you the CC is on the Big Island? BTW, I think you should try them without the HD Ent. Pack. You might be surprised.

I'm going to email Nick and ask him if/when they plan on rolling it out on Maui.

As I'm sure you know, you can get some sat service on the islands, from either DirecTV or Dish, but their offerings aren't that good.

I never tried tuning into the music channels (I even uncheck all of them in the channel list), but I tried tonight .. I get nothing on my S3. The OTW HD DVR in the living room gets them all just fine.

For the long term, I was reading an article that Haw. Tel. has an application in to offer tv service. I guess it will be FIOS? I'm sure we won't see it for a couple of years, and then probably on Oahu first.

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2007, 06:34 AM   #66
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 343
Got a quick reply from Nick S.

Quote:
Aloha!

SDV is already released on Oahu. It will be rolled out to all areas of
Hawaii soon. The entire HD Entertainment package will be on SDV.

We do have multi-stream 2 way cards available. But until the TiVo S3
supports them, they won't do any good.
Well, no dates or timeframe for Maui. Only the vague "soon".

I wonder if the S3 and THD are even capable of supporting 2-way m-cards with a software update? Is that possible?

Bummer.

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 08:06 PM   #67
CharlesH
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Milpitas (San Francisco Bay Area)
Posts: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus
wonder if the S3 and THD are even capable of supporting 2-way m-cards with a software update? Is that possible?
All m-cards are two way. The S3 and THD aren't, and don't have the hardware to do it, due to unreasonably licensing requirements (the only way TiVo could provide two-way was to run the cable company user interface). But there is a USB attachment that the cable companies agreed to that will let SDV (but not PayPerView or OnDemand) work, but when it will be available hasn't been announced. See the SDV FAQ thread.

Last edited by CharlesH : 10-14-2007 at 08:11 PM.
CharlesH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 11:33 PM   #68
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 343
Yeah, I read the FAQ after I posted that question. Thanks. I should have read it first.

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 07:12 PM   #69
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Three and a half weeks after ordering, my cable cards arrived. TWC plugged them into my TiVoHD and nothing happened. (Presumably because the TWC guy had had no CableCard training, and plugged both cards in at the same time).

A few hours later he returned with an MCard! Plugged it in and it just worked. Although it took another 2.5 hours to find somebody at the 'head end' who had sufficient security authorization ("level 5") to turn it on.

Not much to tell you about SDV as it is not yet implemented on the Big Island. I am told that HD KHON, HD KITV, HD KHNL, HD KHET, HD Discovery, and HD TNT, at least, are not included in the HD Entertainment Pak and are/will be available to CableCard users.

This in an e-mail from TWC on Thursday:

A) "One-way cable cards and one-way TVs will not have the ability to receive Pay Per View, On Demand, two way channels, Sports Pak, Chinese channel, Spanish Pak and HD Entertainment Pak. Two way channels are shown in the grid and subject to change.. ".

B) "Moving channels over to a two-way digital platform is needed to efficiently deliver more programming. We will not be able to wait, as there is a need to add more programming".

C) "Video & audio channel transmitted on Oceanic TWC using a bidirectional electronic protocol is considered by Oceanic TWC as two-way programming, such as SD" ([clarification by s1_junkie]: two way-programming does not have to be interactive programming)


I'm now curious about the schedule for the USB plugin "Tuning Resolver"
( see page 32 of http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519612942)

Last edited by s1_junkie : 10-21-2007 at 07:17 PM.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 04:24 AM   #70
is2scooby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 12
I can't stand the fact that I have so many blank grey screens greeting me when I flip through the channels.

I've given in and called up Oceanic to get them to come out and put in a OTW HD-DVR.

I think it's going to take a while to get used to life without a Tivo.
__________________
Aloha,
Richard...
is2scooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 10:46 AM   #71
HiDefGator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by is2scooby
I think it's going to take a while to get used to life without a Tivo.
You've made it past denial, that was the first step.
HiDefGator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 08:26 PM   #72
m_jonis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1_junkie

I'm now curious about the schedule for the USB plugin "Tuning Resolver"
( see page 32 of http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519612942)

As much as I hate to say it, anyone who think there will be a USB dongle or anything else any time in the near future is sadly mistaken.

The cable companies dragged their feet on cable card, you think they're magically going to release something that will let a third party utilize their SDV?

Ha!

If you read carefully they do not state anywhere that such a device is even ready, just that one "can be made". I'm sure that a cold-fusion device "can be made" too. Notice the lack of a timeframe.

I highly doubt anything will be shipping in 2-3 years.
m_jonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 05:08 AM   #73
is2scooby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 12
Pulled out the Tivo and installed a Oceanic Explorer 8300HD yesterday.

YUCK.

Image quality is fine, but the interface is TERRIBLE. *sigh*
__________________
Aloha,
Richard...
is2scooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 08:24 AM   #74
jrm01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_jonis
As much as I hate to say it, anyone who think there will be a USB dongle or anything else any time in the near future is sadly mistaken.

The cable companies dragged their feet on cable card, you think they're magically going to release something that will let a third party utilize their SDV?

Ha!

If you read carefully they do not state anywhere that such a device is even ready, just that one "can be made". I'm sure that a cold-fusion device "can be made" too. Notice the lack of a timeframe.

I highly doubt anything will be shipping in 2-3 years.
I'm standing by my prediction of before the end of March 2008 as the date. I think that the new cooperation-mode between TiVo and Comcast is going to help this.
__________________
Comcast, Cox, TW, Charter and BHN are cabal companies.
(That is not a spelling error. Check the definition.
)
jrm01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 09:11 AM   #75
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm01
I'm standing by my prediction of before the end of March 2008 as the date. I think that the new cooperation-mode between TiVo and Comcast is going to help this.
Why that date?
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2007, 12:17 AM   #76
HiKent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 80
October 29 Update.

We got another letter from TWC saying the new D-Day (all HD going to SDV) is now next Tuesday (November 6). Is this also a bluff? What did TiVo legal figure out.

Only HD left is broadcast, HBO & Showtime.

Last edited by HiKent : 10-30-2007 at 04:09 AM.
HiKent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2007, 03:49 AM   #77
fofy21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by is2scooby
Pulled out the Tivo and installed a Oceanic Explorer 8300HD yesterday.

YUCK.

Image quality is fine, but the interface is TERRIBLE. *sigh*
I know this is off topic, but....

What software does the OTW Explorer 8300HD run (SARA or Passport)?


On topic: Why couldn't TIVO had come up with the agreement with TWC rather than Comcast?!?! I miss my TIVO.
fofy21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2007, 10:20 PM   #78
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
HiKent - nothing from TiVo legal for a few weeks, last I heard from TiVo they were working on it which would take some time.

My TiVoHD gets the same HD channels as yours (local TV + Showtime + HBO if I wanted it).

Talked to the HI state regulator today, trying to light a fire.

Have been having an e-mail dialog with a TWC person on Oahu, like pulling hens' teeth. This is my current understanding and opinion:

Historically cable card support was split by the FCC into 'one-way' (regular TV) and 'two-way' (Interactive, eg PPV). Support for the former is required now, and the later not yet.

So the question to answer is "is SDV two-way?". TWC say yes, so Cablecard support not required by TWC. I say no because only TWC's internal electronic protocols are two-way, from the users point of view it is one-way.

The issue seems to be: what does 'two-way' mean? Does it mean Interactive (i.e. involving the TV viewer and cable co.) or Interoperable (ie involving set top box and cable co.).

My contention is that two-way means Interactive, but not Interoperable (so SDV is not two-way and must be supported) because :

1) According to this FCC document http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519612942 (page 32 "II. SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO MODIFICATIONS") : "In order to address this issue, the cable industry has worked with CE companies such as TiVo to arrive at a solution that can provide two-way SDV channels to one-way digital cable products through an external device attachment to the UDCP."
Pretty clear to me that SDV is a special case of one-way, and must be supported.

2) If SDV were two-way, then some imaginary and evil cable company could make all channels SDV and so totally bypass the CableCard requirement. There is a CableCard requirement, so SDV can not be two-way.

Separately and in my opinion, since SDV is introduced to meet TWC's need for increased efficiency, and the resulting loss of channels removes service from CableCard users. In order to make CableCard users whole, TWC should offer Tuning Resolvers free of charge at it's offices and reference this offer on it's web site. After all on the web site TWC does offer 100% CableCard satisfaction, not 75% satisfaction (or what ever the percentage of non-SDV channels happens to be). As I say, in my opinion; but it seem a reasonable request.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2007, 11:01 PM   #79
jrm01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeS
Why that date?
Why I pick the end of first quarter of 2008:

1. Tivo says:
Quote:
Great progress has been made and the National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA) revealed the solution in a filing with the FCC. The agreed-upon solution is a small external adapter, called a tuning resolver, which will attach to the back of the CableCARD device and enable two-way communication with the cable headend so that switched digital channels can be received by TiVo products.

We expect the adapter to be available to consumers before switched digital becomes widely deployed
2. The FCC says:

Quote:
In order to address this issue, the cable industry has worked with CE companies such as TiVo to arrive at a solution that can provide two-way SDV channels to one-way digital cable products through an external device attachment to the UDCP
3. TiVo and Comcast are cooperating much more on shared concerns.

4. SDV is becoming widely deployed

5. The technology is not rocket science

6. That's when I come back from Florida every year.
__________________
Comcast, Cox, TW, Charter and BHN are cabal companies.
(That is not a spelling error. Check the definition.
)
jrm01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2007, 11:10 PM   #80
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm01
Why I pick the end of first quarter of 2008:

1. Tivo says:


2. The FCC says:



3. TiVo and Comcast are cooperating much more on shared concerns.

4. SDV is becoming widely deployed

5. The technology is not rocket science

6. That's when I come back from Florida every year.
#6 sold me.

I hope you're right. Maybe then I'd go back to getting the HD package from TWC.
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2007, 05:32 PM   #81
ddubois
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 26
Adding HD TNT and HD TBS to the list of killed channels is a real kick in the nads.
ddubois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2007, 06:46 PM   #82
jesseramos
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mililani, HI
Posts: 16
I have enough Tivo Rewards points to get a TivoHD. Some of those points expire in a couple of days. I was hoping for better news regarding SDV before then so I could get rid of the TW 8300.

Guess I'll get the 80GB iPod instead, even though it's an older generation one.
jesseramos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2007, 08:57 PM   #83
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesseramos
I have enough Tivo Rewards points to get a TivoHD. Some of those points expire in a couple of days. I was hoping for better news regarding SDV before then so I could get rid of the TW 8300.

Guess I'll get the 80GB iPod instead, even though it's an older generation one.
Wait, you're giving up a free TiVoHD for this? That makes no sense. They'll have a solution for it sometime in the not too distant future, can't believe you'd give up a free TiVo....
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2007, 09:47 PM   #84
samo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Littleton, CO, US
Posts: 1,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeS
Wait, you're giving up a free TiVoHD for this? That makes no sense. They'll have a solution for it sometime in the not too distant future, can't believe you'd give up a free TiVo....
His iPod does not have neither monthly fees or commitment and is indeed free.
If he gets "free" TiVo HD, he will have a doorstop (until "not too distant future" that could take years) that he will have to pay for monthly.
samo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 02:11 PM   #85
jesseramos
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mililani, HI
Posts: 16
The point of getting the TivoHD was to replace the 8300 I currently have. At this time, it's not capable of doing that. There's no estimated time frame on when that will happen. Will there even be a new Tivo by that time?
jesseramos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2007, 03:06 PM   #86
HiKent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 80
How can you tell if TWC is really using SDV, or just blocking the channel information from CableCards? It seems odd that *all* HD programming would be a candidate for SDV. TNT? TBS? ESPN?

My trust level with Oceanic TWC is very low. Apparently ESPN2HD & GOLFHD have been transmitted normally since the spring, but no encryption keys, so blocked to cablecards. I see now that the red "recording" light is dim when tuned w/o keys, but blank when SDV (or bad channel info to cablecard). I wouldn't put it past TWC to just block the channel information to cablecards & call it SDV.

So is there anyone with an HD cable box & a TiVo? If so, how can you tell from SA box diagnostics if it's a SDV or not.
HiKent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2007, 03:16 PM   #87
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiKent
So is there anyone with an HD cable box & a TiVo? If so, how can you tell from SA box diagnostics if it's a SDV or not.
I have the OTW HD-DVR in the living room and the S3 in my bedroom, but I'm on Maui and we don't have SDV here yet, thank you. (but Nick says that it's "coming soon".)

I can tell you that I've never had any problems getting ESPN2-HD on the S3. The Golf HD channel was dicey at the beginning, but it comes in now. Can't say I ever watch it though.

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2007, 03:59 PM   #88
HiDefGator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiKent
It seems odd that *all* HD programming would be a candidate for SDV. TNT? TBS? ESPN?
Until more people actually start using HD cable boxes all HD channels are pretty good candidates for SDV. They certainly aren't in the majority yet.
HiDefGator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:15 PM   #89
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
By now you may have seen the new channel lineup listing with the "not available with cablecard" field. http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApp.../DCL_Kona.html

Here in Kona by my count (excluding on demand, ppv, and audio) 135 of 248 channels will be unavailable. Numbers on the other islands are similar.

To me this looks like bypassing the FCC's CableCard mandate. However he FCC's plug and play documentation doesnt discuss SDV:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/plugandplaytv.html

If any of you feel the urge to ask the FCC to clarify the plug and play rules for SDV, you can enter comment here :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi

'Proceedings number' is 97-80 , and 'Document Type' is Comment.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 07:00 PM   #90
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1_junkie View Post
By now you may have seen the new channel lineup listing with the "not available with cablecard" field. http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApp.../DCL_Kona.html

Here in Kona by my count (excluding on demand, ppv, and audio) 135 of 248 channels will be unavailable. Numbers on the other islands are similar.
Ok, but to get a real count, deduct all the "on demand" and PPV channels because we already didn't get them and/or couldn't use them with cable cards anyway.

Then take a close look at what the differences are. The main differences are in the HD package. The rest is noise as far as I'm concerned.

And, yes, that's significant.

They have a similar listing for Kahului Maui, but as far as I know, they haven't implemented SDV on Maui yet. I still get Discovery HD Theater, HD-NET, etc.

-David

Last edited by Icarus : 11-11-2007 at 07:06 PM.
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |