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Old 10-23-2007, 07:32 PM   #1
naiLS1
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Tivo slows down, then reboots--then repeat

Okay, I've read a few things about the current OS version causing some problems, but this seems a bit different--I think.

My Tivo is an S2 540040. I bought it April of last year and upgraded to a 250gb HD within the first month.

My tivo started having problems back around August of this year. It seemed to be caused by overheating. It was slowing down and then rebooting about 2 times per day. (By "slowing down" I mean every time I press a button it takes about 30 seconds before it responds--if it does at all) I moved it to an area with better airflow and it seemed to be fine. Then after the new service update, it seemed to start again. But it started doing it more frequently. It was slowing down gradually and then rebooting.

Then it got to the point where it was stuck booting up. I then put the original drive back in 2 days ago and it downloaded the service update. Then within a day it was already slowing down again. And this morning, it rebooted itself.

Is this corruption of the data on the drive--both drives? Or could this be a bad power supply? Or is it the newest software version causing this?

I have a backup of the drive from April of last year, when it was functioning just fine. I'll be trying that next but I wanted to get some opinions from the experts.

One more thing, I've been keeping track of the temp and the highest I've seen it is 43C. It's usually between 38C and 42C.

Last edited by naiLS1 : 10-23-2007 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naiLS1
Okay, I've read a few things about the current OS version causing some problems, but this seems a bit different--I think.

My Tivo is an S2 540040. I bought it April of last year and upgraded to a 250gb HD within the first month.

My tivo started having problems back around August of this year. It seemed to be caused by overheating. It was slowing down and then rebooting about 2 times per day. (By "slowing down" I mean every time I press a button it takes about 30 seconds before it responds--if it does at all) I moved it to an area with better airflow and it seemed to be fine. Then after the new service update, it seemed to start again. But it started doing it more frequently. It was slowing down gradually and then rebooting.

Then it got to the point where it was stuck booting up. I then put the original drive back in 2 days ago and it downloaded the service update. Then within a day it was already slowing down again. And this morning, it rebooted itself.

Is this corruption of the data on the drive--both drives? Or could this be a bad power supply? Or is it the newest software version causing this?

I have a backup of the drive from April of last year, when it was functioning just fine. I'll be trying that next but I wanted to get some opinions from the experts.

One more thing, I've been keeping track of the temp and the highest I've seen it is 43C. It's usually between 38C and 42C.
This is not coming from an expert, but it sounds oddly enough like a power supply issue which is fairly rare. A new one from Weaknees is about $70. You might really want to consider replacing it.

To eliminate the HDD being the issue first, you could try some of the standard Kickstart diagnostic programs:

(Note that the KS light links are for newer TiVo's; yours will look like the image below)

"Kickstart 57" is TiVo’s built-in diagnostic program similar to Windows “check disk”. It triggers an MFS assert (GSOD), which marks the file system as being damaged. The repair process detects and repairs inode/data problems, and then runs mfscheck to clean up database and directory problems.
Kickstart 57 – TiVo Diagnostics:

1. Go to TiVo Central
2. Select Messages & Setup
3. Select System Reset
4. Select Restart Receiver
5. Press Thumbs Down three times
6. Press Enter
7. While the system is restarting, during the initial screen, press and hold the PAUSE button until only yellow light(s) illuminate.
8. Release the pause button and immediately type in the numbers 5 and 7 on the remote (you have about 10 seconds to do this step).
9. TiVo will reboot and the GSOD screen will come on saying TiVo has encountered a serious error. It will then run the disk management tool. During this time it will look for and correct configuration problems as well as isolating any bad sectors on the hard drive so they can no longer be used.
10. TiVo will automatically reboot after the diagnostic program has completed. This may take a few minutes to a few hours.
"Kickstart 58" is another of TiVo’s diagnostic programs. It runs fsfix with an additional option that causes it to make multiple passes over the inodes, re-hashing them and clearing collision bits.
Kickstart 58- TiVo Diagnostics:

1. Go to TiVo Central
2. Select Messages & Setup
3. Select System Reset
4. Select Restart Receiver
5. Press Thumbs Down three times
6. Press Enter
7. While the system is restarting, during the initial screen, press and hold the PAUSE button until only the yellow light(s) illuminates.
8. Release the pause button and immediately type in the numbers 5 and 8 on the remote (you have about 10 seconds to do this step).
9. Put the remote down and wait. The system will proceed to the diagnostic program.
10. TiVo will reboot after the diagnostic program has completed. This may take a few minutes to a few hours.
Kickstart procedures generally leave Season Passes, Wish Lists, etc. intact, however data and recordings that used any bad sectors may be lost.

Some others may have some ideas too. Good luck and let us know what happens.


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Old 10-23-2007, 09:57 PM   #3
naiLS1
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Okay, thanks for the reply. I've got the kickstart 57 running right now. I'll let you know how it goes.

One strange thing: the Tivo is making a weird electric type of buzzing noise that I've never heard from it before --is that normal during a kickstart?
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:03 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by naiLS1
Okay, thanks for the reply. I've got the kickstart 57 running right now. I'll let you know how it goes.

One strange thing: the Tivo is making a weird electric type of buzzing noise that I've never heard from it before --is that normal during a kickstart?
As suggested, it could be the power supply.

Also, have you checked the fan?
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:28 PM   #5
naiLS1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwit
As suggested, it could be the power supply.

Also, have you checked the fan?
Nope, I haven't checked it but it sounds like it's running and the temp is fine. Tomorrow I'll open it up and check it out.

The kickstart is done and it's recording a show. We'll see what happens.
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naiLS1
Okay, thanks for the reply. I've got the kickstart 57 running right now. I'll let you know how it goes.

One strange thing: the Tivo is making a weird electric type of buzzing noise that I've never heard from it before --is that normal during a kickstart?
I've no idea what the sound might be. TiVo shouldn't make any unusual noises during a KS process. As dwit suggested, it could be the fan.

Let us know if /when it gets back to normal!
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:55 AM   #7
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Strange--the sound went away once the kickstart process was finished.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll let you know!
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:48 PM   #8
naiLS1
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After the kickstart on original drive worked I decided to put the 250gb drive back in to see if the kickstart would help. It ran the KS and the Tivo actually booted afterward!

Oh and I checked to make sure the fan works. It spins just fine and there's not much dust at all inside the box.

We'll see how long it lasts. It's a little sluggish even now.

Thanks for the help guys!

Last edited by naiLS1 : 10-24-2007 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naiLS1
After the kickstart on original drive worked I decided to put the 250gb drive back in to see if the kickstart would help. It ran the KS and the Tivo actually booted afterward!

Oh and I checked to make sure the fan works. It spins just fine and there's not much dust at all inside the box.

We'll see how long it lasts. It's a little sluggish even now.

Thanks for the help guys!
Glad to hear things are on track so far. Keep us posted.
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Old 10-24-2007, 04:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by naiLS1
It's a little sluggish even now.
If you have software v9.x then that's the reason.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:37 PM   #11
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If you have software v9.x then that's the reason.

Yup, I do have 9.x but it's not as sluggish as it was. It's only been a day though, so I'm still keeping an eye on it.
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Old 10-26-2007, 01:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naiLS1
Okay, I've read a few things about the current OS version causing some problems, but this seems a bit different--I think.

My Tivo is an S2 540040. I bought it April of last year and upgraded to a 250gb HD within the first month.

My tivo started having problems back around August of this year. It seemed to be caused by overheating. It was slowing down and then rebooting about 2 times per day. (By "slowing down" I mean every time I press a button it takes about 30 seconds before it responds--if it does at all) I moved it to an area with better airflow and it seemed to be fine. Then after the new service update, it seemed to start again. But it started doing it more frequently. It was slowing down gradually and then rebooting.

Then it got to the point where it was stuck booting up. I then put the original drive back in 2 days ago and it downloaded the service update. Then within a day it was already slowing down again. And this morning, it rebooted itself.

Is this corruption of the data on the drive--both drives? Or could this be a bad power supply? Or is it the newest software version causing this?

I have a backup of the drive from April of last year, when it was functioning just fine. I'll be trying that next but I wanted to get some opinions from the experts.

One more thing, I've been keeping track of the temp and the highest I've seen it is 43C. It's usually between 38C and 42C.
Also not an expert, but when something similar started happening to mine, it was the drive (although my drive was 5 years old, so not as surprising as a pretty new one going). Mine was also up around 51C instead of 38-42.
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Old 10-26-2007, 03:51 PM   #13
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Okay, it started slowing down again today and then it rebooted itself about an hour ago. I guess it's still not happy.

I have a back of the drive from April of last year when it was brand new. I want to use the new WinMFS to restore the backup to a hard drive but I read that the backup I have is not compatible with WinMFS. Is there a way to convert the backup to use with WinMFS?

I originally used the MFSTools Cd from Weaknees.
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Old 11-10-2007, 01:48 PM   #14
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Hey guys, just thought I'd let you know the outcome on my most recent Tivo adventure. I ended up testing the 250gb drive with the manufacturer tools and it turns out the drive was fine. I guess the data on the drive got corrupted or something.

Anyway, I re-imaged the drive using a backup I had made of the original just a month after I bought the Tivo. It seems to be back to it's old self now.

Could the drive data have gotten corrupt because of some bugs in the old MFSTools CD? I read on the WinMFS page that the old MFSTools had some bugs in it and that's what I used back when I originally upgraded the HDD in the Tivo.

Specifically, I used the CD you get from this page.

AND because the backup I used was made using that same old MFSTools CD, I had to use it to also restore the backup---apparently the old backup format is not compatible with the newer MFS applications.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:32 PM   #15
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Thanks richadams for the start:

The aforementioned "soft reset" (for lack of a better term), did NOT bring on the two yellow lights for my 2004 TIVO Series 2 unit.

So the supervisor above the "level I" tech support, suggested that I do a "HARD reset", i.e.
1) unplug the TIVO unit for 60 seconds,
2) replug in the unit, then IMMEDIATELY press and hold onto the PAUSE button, for as long as it takes (took mine's 50 seconds to get the yellow lights to turn on).


3) (then follow richadams' protocol): i.e. Release the pause button and immediately type in the numbers 5 and 7 on the remote (you have about 10 seconds to do this step).
4. TiVo will reboot and "green" screen will come on saying TiVo has encountered a serious error.
5. TiVo will automatically reboot after the diagnostic program has completed. This entire process could take three hours.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by physicaltherapy View Post
Thanks richadams for the start:
Wow! I had forgotten completely about that post. A more up to date post suggests the same thing:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...23#post5643823

So...is everything back in working order again?
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:25 AM   #17
physicaltherapy
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Wow! I had forgotten completely about that post.......


So...is everything back in working order again?
Unfortunately, no richsadams.

I've run and left the Series 2 on the Kickstart 57 for numerous hours (I FELL asleep and it went on for about 8 hours).

However, I REALLY appreciate your kind help & support.

Currently, I'm in the process of running the Kickstart 58 for tentatively 3 three hours.

Hopefully, this diagnostic set will do the trick.

I'll keep you posted!

PT
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:56 AM   #18
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Unfortunately, no richsadams.

I've run and left the Series 2 on the Kickstart 57 for numerous hours (I FELL asleep and it went on for about 8 hours).

However, I REALLY appreciate your kind help & support.

Currently, I'm in the process of running the Kickstart 58 for tentatively 3 three hours.

Hopefully, this diagnostic set will do the trick.

I'll keep you posted!

PT
Hmmm...if it was stuck on KS57 for more than three hours on a Series2 odds are the hard drive is failing. KS58 could possibly help but I'd wager you'll have the same experience.

It may be time to replace the hard drive or buy that shiny new TiVo HD you've had your eye on. IIRC you can get a refurb HD from TiVo for $199 or they have an upgrade program:

https://www3.tivo.com/store/upgrade.do

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:13 PM   #19
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thanks rich! I'll be making another post (to equal 5 posts to "circumvent the below error message; so that I can include a link)
The following errors occurred when this message was submitted:
To be able to post links or images your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 4 posts.

Please remove links from your message, then you will be able to submit your post.


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Old 07-26-2009, 09:21 PM   #20
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Hmmm...if it was stuck on KS57 for more than three hours on a Series2 odds are the hard drive is failing. KS58 could possibly help but I'd wager you'll have the same experience.

It may be time to replace the hard drive or buy that shiny new TiVo HD you've had your eye on. IIRC you can get a refurb HD from TiVo for $199 or they have an upgrade program:

https://www3.tivo.com/store/upgrade.do

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.
rich:


I fear you are indeed correct. I've had the unit for over five years and it's recorded all my CNBC & Bloomberg Programs FLAWLESSLY. I paid $100 or so, for the lifetime membership about a month AFTER I began using it; probably one of my BEST INVESTMENTS along with the SLINGBOX.

I've already gone through Kickstarts 57, 58, 52 and just for the heck of it, I'll attempt 54.

Thanks much for the header on the soon to be replacement unit, which saves me $100!!!

My total cost will be $500 ($199 h/w + $299 lifetime subscription); roughly the +$100 more than amount I'd paid over 5 1/2 years ago. Subcription might have been IIRC about $2.50 per month? And the monthly and lifetime subscriptions have increased substantially since the early 2000s. Hey it's all good and it's about keeping me abreast of the whirling stock market.

As for the new unit, I understand it has the "receiver cards." Can this new TIVO unit simply work without the given card(s), i.e. as my Series 2 had done, i.e. use whatever CABLE channels on its queu. I'd called my cable company and they would like a purchase AND a monthly fee for such a card. I prefer keeping the status quo, until I do a little more research on it.

The only change in in "subscribed channeling" is during the NBA Season (NBA League Pass).

A related note: What does BamCat mean by the following, with regards to "free TIVO BASIC?" This service might be an aspect that I'm expected to have and I've taken for granted... and might NOT get it. Please clarify if possible. Thanks ahead of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamCat View Post
............I don't want to get rid of the unit because they don't make units with free Tivo Basic anymore, and I love that feature. Thanks again!!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...eply&p=5658607
Also, any ideas where to send my expired unit?

PT
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:28 AM   #21
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As for the new unit, I understand it has the "receiver cards." Can this new TIVO unit simply work without the given card(s), i.e. as my Series 2 had done, i.e. use whatever CABLE channels on its queu. I'd called my cable company and they would like a purchase AND a monthly fee for such a card. I prefer keeping the status quo, until I do a little more research on it.

A related note: What does BamCat mean by the following, with regards to "free TIVO BASIC?" This service might be an aspect that I'm expected to have and I've taken for granted... and might NOT get it. Please clarify if possible. Thanks ahead of time.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...eply&p=5658607
Also, any ideas where to send my expired unit?

PT
TiVo HD's have the option of using cable cards (which most people use). They are supplied by your local cable company. However you can use your new TiVo HD with basic cable and/or an antenna. A cable card (only one "M"/multi-stream card is required) will get you additional programming...depending on which package your cableco offers.

This setup guide should help...

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...d/100041/sno/0

TiVo has a nice little intro video as well:

http://www.tivo.com/assets/flash/sup...p_tivo_dvr.swf

Here is some terrific info that one of the TCF Members, bkdtv, has put together:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...84#post7097284

Early Series1's and IIRC some Series2's had a "TiVo Basic" program that would allow you to use it without a subscription (with limited options). No idea if yours had that but since you have a lifetime sub, it really doesn't matter. Although there are still a few old units floating around that have it, the feature hasn't been available for many years. I don't know what model numbers they were...perhaps someone with some knowledge about them can chime in.

Since it had a lifetime subscription installing a replacement hard drive in your old TiVo would have been worthwhile (the subscription is tied to the motherboard). But if you transfer your lifetime sub to your new TiVo your old Series2 isn't really worth much to anyone. Someone might want it for parts so you could put it on Craigs List or eBay I suppose.

I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with all of the progress and features your new TiVo HD has to offer.

Enjoy!
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:12 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
...........Since it had a lifetime subscription installing a replacement hard drive in your old TiVo would have been worthwhile (the subscription is tied to the motherboard). But if you transfer your lifetime sub to your new TiVo your old Series2 isn't really worth much to anyone. Someone might want it for parts so you could put it on Craigs List or eBay I suppose.

I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with all of the progress and features your new TiVo HD has to offer.

Enjoy!


rich:

u r an absolute WEALTH of info!

Woo hoo!!!! since my lifetime membership is TIED to my motherboard and NOT the hard drive, that means I could either:

1. replace the hard drive perhaps and still (cost effectively) run my TIVO.

OR

2. transfer the lifetime membership to a NEW TIVO!!!!

Win, win!

I'm thinking of calling TIVO direct for info on "transferring the lifetime membership." Or is it automatic as per "upgrade" (of a owner of a near dead TIVO with a "lifetime subscription" on its motherboard.

Any ideas who to contact for such a transfer?

I love these options. I've gone to bottom of the barrel with seemingly no options to this. Thanks a billion!
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:50 AM   #23
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Yes, you have the option of replacing the hard drive in your existing TiVo to get back in business. It probably has a PATA hard drive and they are fairly inexpensive. If you're comfortable with replacing a hard drive in a PC you can DIY by buying a bare drive and using a program called Instant Cake from a company called DVRUpgrade. It's a fairly painless process.

Instant Cake: http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

Or you can buy a pre-imaged drive from the same company and just pop it in.

Either way you'd just re-run Guided Setup as if the box was new and that's it.

Here's more info about troubleshooting as well as replacing your hard drive:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=416062

With regard to transferring your lifetime subscription, you just need to call TiVo and see what they have to offer. They run upgrade specials periodically so it might be worth a call to see what the costs might be.

Hope that helps and enjoy!
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:39 AM   #24
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Rich:

I just made the purchase and is VERY ecstactic about repairing the DVR.

I'll let you know of the outcome once I receive the unit.

Thanks much!!!

PT
DVRUPGRADE: S2R-160000-240 193 Hour Replacement Drive Kit (160GB) Options: TCD24008A
Replacement Drive Kits: Replacement drive kits are designed to give you maximum capacity with minimal effort. Each kit comes with a drive prepared for immediate installation in your TiVo DVR. No computer or software experience is necessary as each kit is prepared specifically for your particular TiVo. Each kit we provide comes with specialized tools, mounting hardware, and printed instructions; everything you need for a successful installation. Its simply a matter of removing the existing drive(s) in your unit and replacing them with the drive(s) we provide. Under no circumstances will your subscription be affected - even if you have a lifetime subscription!

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Old 07-28-2009, 03:25 PM   #25
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Good move. The folks at DVRUpgrade are very good people. I'm sure you'll be pleased.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:56 PM   #26
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Not to thread hijack, but will this help my S03 problem if I do the Kickstart 57?
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:51 AM   #27
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Not to thread hijack, but will this help my S03 problem if I do the Kickstart 57?
No idea what the problem is so no idea if it will help or not. S03 is a loading problem, but that can manifest itself in different ways. Can you post details?
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:47 PM   #28
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Basically every now and then, I will get a S03 problem for a week (after successfully connecting and downloading). So, I tend to have to force reboot and hope that it loads successfully. When it doesn't, I delete more shows and then reboot and that usually keeps it happy for a week or so of successful connections and loading.

I'm thinking it keeps finding bad sectors and can't fully load in that area.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:36 PM   #29
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I'm thinking it keeps finding bad sectors and can't fully load in that area.
Based on that I'm thinking you're right. KS57 and/or KS58 may resolve the issue but it's a bit hit and miss. If they don't do it you could run KS54 to see what comes back...but again, there's no guarantee that it will be decisive.

If all else fails it might be time to replace the hard drive. Doing it sooner than later may allow you to not only save your settings, but recordings as well if you want. Not sure which model you have but if it's a Series3 or TiVo HD you can click on the upgrade link below my sig for all of the info you need. If it's an S2 I believe there's also a sticky on the Help Center forum.

Best of luck!
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:20 AM   #30
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Good move. The folks at DVRUpgrade are very good people. I'm sure you'll be pleased.



woo-hoo!

after ordering the unit on 7/28/09; dvrupgrade FORGOT to follow through in sending me the unit.

And I didn't help any by getting occupied in other projects. By 8/10/09, I realized that I'd YET to receive my hard disk. I emailed dvrupgrade to check on the status and Scott of dvrupgrade promptly wrote me back and went on with the processing and I eventually received the unit on 8/15/09.

I finally got around to installing the new 160 gb seagate hard drive (replacing the 80 gb maxtor).

the instructions were perfect and easy to follow. They even included the Torx driver (special screwdriver) to help pull out the top shell.

In & out and got the unit working.

FORTUNATELY, I'm one of the 98% that has a TIVO problem that relates to a hard drive failure.

PT.

***************************
side story: I managed to survive by taking advantage of a local cable service offer of $4.95/month (fee LOCKED in for one year) for the Time Warner DVR (TWDVR) package. Set up was a breeze, but the TECHNOLOGY (or LACK THEREOF) of TWDVR is incredibly lacking. The cable's dvr is so "UN-intuitive," to put it mildly. The worst part about it, is having to start from zero (when trying to "search/profile" programs. TIVO has nothing to worry about if this is Time Warner's best offer.

Hey, I can (I would think), be able to video THREE programs simultaneously, since the TWC DVR doesn't need to be on the channel to record. This the saving grace for that particular service.

I'm glad to have my TIVO back.
*****************************



btw: richsadams is the ROCK!!!!!
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