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Old 09-07-2007, 11:45 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by MichaelK
I'm not positive- as I dont use it regularly but can't you tell the tivo desktop to auto pull by series?
Yes, you can.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:54 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by LoREvanescence
opps, yup. I meant DHCP. Yeah, i to figured that by just plugging it it should get a ip address from the router in the local apartment building. But it doesn't. When I want to the Computer help desk to get this sorted I was told that a Tivo is an unsupported device and the network does not allow it to get passed through. Any request tivo sends out is not returned and there for times out. To acces the network the net work must first scan your computer to verify that you have antivirus and have the latest security updates installed. If it doesn't, a device isn't allowed to access the network and doesn't get passed through. In addition, once a device is allowed through it must be registered, and the Internet system forces a page on a computer or a mac for say when you open the browser where you have to fill out your full name, housing information and school email address. Wireless is a whole lot harder with a system scan at every connect and the need to log in with a user name and password.

I would love to get TivoToGo working as well as other networking features. But have been unable and just told by my school that tivo is a unsupported device.


I would love ot see this news on TTG and MRV revamp Tivo for the end of the year. Things are looking good=)

I am no windows expert- but couldn't you can just slap another Ethernet card (wired or wireless) in your pc and then set up windows the "share" the connection with the tivo across the second card. At least with older versions of windows you could. (and I'm not sure if perhaps they could "find" the tivo but I believe the PC would use NAT and it would look invisible to the PC. But then again the NAT in the router should make hide how many devices are there anyway?

You're just in college now so you probably don't know what dial up is- but way back when when there was no dsl or cable modems people used to share their dialup connection accross their networks (stop laughing - it was the only choice we had ;-))

Another possibility is- a router that "clones" a MAC. One of the more knowledgeable guys can step in here but basically if I understand the MAC address is like the social security number of your Ethernet card. In the old days before routers cable modems would 'mate' to the MAC in the PC they were attached too as some sort of way to keep you from sharing the Internet with neighbors. The cable modem or cable head end would ensure that only that MAC address was allowed on the Internet. IT MIGHT be that once you jump through the log in hoops your connection clears that MAC address as OK. IF that's the case you would just get a router that "clones" the mac address off the laptop (basically like when an illegal steals your SS number to work)- and then let it scan your laptop and then connect behind the router with that MAC cloned. Might be worth a try?

(Just trying to help- the more knowledgeable guys can probably either agree or debunk my thoughts...)
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:59 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by TiivoDog
Yeah, this is a bummer as I have addressed this topic a while back both in this forum per the link below, as well as the provided link in that post, which tied back to when the Tivo S3 unit was first publicly available for display at 2006 CES show. I was certain the lack of gigabit speeds would raise concern within the Tivo Community as that enhancement would have greatly expedited transfer rates within one's own network (i.e. Home) for both MRV & TTG.....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post5278524

never had 2 S2's at the same time to play with MRV myself (currently have 2 S3's and an S2) but from what I read- NO tivo with any adapter (built in or usb or hacked to the motherboard, wired or wireless, tivo brand or supported or non supported) has ever approached even 100- there's a limit in there someplace besides the speed of the netwrok adapter. So adding gigabit would still ahve the limit. COnsidering the THD has less expensive hardware then the S3 I'd guess that it doesn't have the hardware either to overcome whatever the bottleneck is...
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:04 PM   #94
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This is great news. Looks like I can ditch a few more fios DVR's in favor of a few Tivo HD's (I only have one Tivo HD at the moment.) Now if they can just get VOD services to work on 3rd party boxes...
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:08 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by MickeS
Copy protection and encryption are not the same thing. The encryption they use is related to playing the file back on a PC. They currently use it on the Series 2 models.
You're saying that they encrypt everything that they store on the PC with Series 2 TTG? Do they encode it as some kind of DRM protected licensed content, ala WMDRM, essentially tethering it to the PC with some limited ability to transfer it to portable devices? I can see where that would make the IP holders happy, though there's nothing which legally compels it. The thing that they (the IP holders) fear most about things like TTG is unfettered network transfer of digital television--it was the stated purpose of the Broadcast Flag.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:15 PM   #96
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Even from a Mac?
Yes, even from a Mac.

Mac support is via Toast 8 or Popcorn 3.

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:16 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by rodalpho
Pretty much all channels in my cable system (time warner cable, southern manhattan) are CCI byte 0x2 - copy once. This covers everything except for a couple of HD channels, including discovery, sci-fi, comedy channel, FX, etc. Am I pretty much SOL for TTG?
For those "Copy One Generation" marked channels, you are. Again, it's against FCC regs for them to mark anything in the core basic tier that way, so all over-the-air local network HDTV should be transferrable. Whether they protect any of the rest is completely up to the cable companies and their content providers.

Technically, the "one generation" of copies allowed for "Copy One Generation" marked content is the copy on the DVR. DVRs are a special case, since the intent of the rule is to allow for a single permanent copy to be made. It has been suggested that DVRs should be allowed a "move" operation which would end with the deletion of the copy on the DVR.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:17 PM   #98
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Two questions, neither of which I think have been covered yet:

1) Is it still going to be a dog-slow transfer, like it is on the S2, and

2) are they using the same muxing technique in the S3 transfer method, which means the audio/video sync issues are still going to be there?

TTG and TivoBack was nice on an S2, and I can even live with the transfer speeds, but the A/V thing was maddening, and the reason I now run cables from my PC to my TV to watch programming on my PC.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:21 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Blaq

One thing remains unclear to me: will the S3/TiVoHD allow transfers of non-protected HD shows to a S2, in standard-def format?
HD content cannot be transferred to a Series2. And there is no transcoding ability to convert HD to SD (these are consumer electronic devices, not beefy multi-core PC's). So the answer is no. If it's recorded in HD on a Series3 or TiVoHD, then it can be shared between those platforms, but not with a Series2.

And when I say 'can be shared between those platforms', it of course comes with any caveats the copyright owner dictates regarding sharing.

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:39 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by rodalpho
Pretty much all channels in my cable system (time warner cable, southern manhattan) are CCI byte 0x2 - copy once. This covers everything except for a couple of HD channels, including discovery, sci-fi, comedy channel, FX, etc. Am I pretty much SOL for TTG?

Also, does the S3 support mpeg-4 encoded TTCB files? Or is that still covered under NDA?
Sounds like your cable system has the flags wrong (likely due to mistaken default setting). Harass them, especially if it's for network/must-carry channels, as noted above. Likely they've just goofed, not any specific policy per se.

would love to know about what TTCB file formats are supported too although as noted in a previous thread, HDV MPG2 (native HD camcorder files) appeared to work OK (w/ small tweak to change them to CBR flags not VBR)
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:45 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by MichaelK
I'm not positive- as I dont use it regularly but can't you tell the tivo desktop to auto pull by series?
That would get things part way there. Still, rather than having to setup copy for specific programs it would be nice to have a more generic setting with a logic to the effect of, "if you want to record a show and an existing show would have to be deleted to make room, move that show to be deleted over to a computer first." Essential, no...convienent, yes.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:50 PM   #102
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TiVoPony, what about the ability to play back MPEG-4 files transfered from a PC? Is that something that will be enabled, or will it still be all MPEG-2?
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:52 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by TiivoDog
Yeah, this is a bummer as I have addressed this topic a while back both in this forum per the link below, as well as the provided link in that post, which tied back to when the Tivo S3 unit was first publicly available for display at 2006 CES show. I was certain the lack of gigabit speeds would raise concern within the Tivo Community as that enhancement would have greatly expedited transfer rates within one's own network (i.e. Home) for both MRV & TTG.....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post5278524
Wouldn't the Tivo harddrive throughput (plus overhead of other work/recording/transfer CPU etc) be the bottleneck long before 100mb/s wired ethernet?
Practically many drives achieve around 30MB/sec, 240Mb/s, much more than 100mb/s ethernet, but... that's without much overhead...

most HD shows are around 7GB/hour. w/ my napkin math that means around 12+minutes txfer time assuming 75% throughput on the 100mbps ethernet.
w/ native disk speeds (30MBps), that's 4minutes. 3x faster but...

I doubt the Tivo hardware (disk/cpu/bus etc) could handle GigaE, but would be nice. Time to transfer/backup my entire 750gb drive at the speed above is 22hrs instead of 7
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:55 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by TiVoPony
Yes, even from a Mac.

Mac support is via Toast 8 or Popcorn 3.

Cheers,
Pony
I hope we'd still be able to access the Now Playing list via a browser and then just download the .tivo file.

Then we can use programs to turn it into a .mpeg to play natively on the Mac (for free, like Windows users can) or move the file to a Windows machine that may not be on the same network.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:57 PM   #105
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Sounds like your cable system has the flags wrong (likely due to mistaken default setting). Harass them, especially if it's for network/must-carry channels, as noted above. Likely they've just goofed, not any specific policy per se.
What rodalpho describes is the way my cable company is, too. What you say is of course true for the local/must-carry channels, but it seems to be extremely common for cable companies to set all the other channels to copy-once, as people in the AVSForum HD Recorders forum can attest. And I suspect that is their policy. Even if it's not, I've never known my cable company to fix anything unless legally required to do so.

If we really cannot transfer copy-once recordings (which I suspect we cannot), then a lot of people, possibly most, will not be able to use this for anything other than local channels.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:00 PM   #106
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PS TivoPony & all the Tivo developers/CableLabs negotiators who enabled this good news -
may I just offer another "WOOT!!!" hurrah and big thank you in advance for this news!!

With this transfer ability- especially HD files including home movies (we'll see re formats)-
this means Tivo could be a AppleTV killer in most functionality (slicker UI and ITMS-AAC DRM notwithstanding)... I can finally watch my HD home movies and such w/o swapping tapes and cables!
and, I can now archive off the "eye candy" HD & other shows that I rarely watch (but want to keep) to my big PC drives/DVDs, and not worry about always-on eSATA expansion drives burning up etc...

awesome news, worth the wait, hope this drives a lot more TivoHD/S3 sales now!
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:01 PM   #107
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Thanks for the update! Great news!
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:02 PM   #108
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Man, this is great news! I will be getting a Tivo HD or another Series 3 soon. Maybe 2 THDs with an upgraded hard drive for one!

FWIW, I checked content flags on some of my recordings from TWC in Raleigh, NC and it looks like things on the digital teir (NBA TV for example) are flagged for Copy Never. But it isn't consistent. We'll see.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:07 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Brainiac 5
What rodalpho describes is the way my cable company is, too. What you say is of course true for the local/must-carry channels, but it seems to be extremely common for cable companies to set all the other channels to copy-once, as people in the AVSForum HD Recorders forum can attest. And I suspect that is their policy. Even if it's not, I've never known my cable company to fix anything unless legally required to do so.

If we really cannot transfer copy-once recordings (which I suspect we cannot), then a lot of people, possibly most, will not be able to use this for anything other than local channels.

same here.

analog is obviously clear.

digital locals are unencrypted.

music choice is 0x00 for some reason.

everything else digital is 0x02 = 'copy once'.

I am under the impression that "copy once" has already occured on teh tivo's hard drive so things then become copy no more.

WHich essentially leaves local channels and analog to MRV.

it's a big annoying a cable company can be such pricks (they have the ability to allow the content providers to pass along flags so there is no reason for any head end to arbitrarily apply the copy once flag accross the board- in fact it can be against the wishes of the coyright holder- see cable in the classroom). But big picture most of my must have TV that doesn't repeat comes in on the broadcast networks so I can live with it. The one channel that does really annoy me is my RSN- so I am forced to tie up a tuner on each S3 for local sporting events.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:14 PM   #110
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Just a point.

A copy command is not a move command.

Transfer=move

Copy once rule still in place.

???
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:20 PM   #111
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Just a point.

A copy command is not a move command.

Transfer=move

Copy once rule still in place.

???
Also streaming is apparently allowed since only one copy exists at a time (apparently that's how MS gets around the problem)

unfortunatly tivo doesn't Move or stream but rather copy's programs from one box to another.

Perhaps they can update MRV so first it copies(but locks the show) then deletes the original on the old box, then unlocks the program on the new show.

I think that might be legit in the eyes of cable. We'll have to keep our fingers crossed to see what tivo comes up with.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:20 PM   #112
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I wanted to let you know that development has been progressing smoothly, and all is well. You can expect TTG & MRV to be available for Series3 and TiVoHD this November.
*Exactly* when in November??? I keed, I keed!
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:21 PM   #113
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I'd like to see MRV with some sort of scheduler that would let me just record 3 shows at the same time and have the TiVos figure it out. That'd be especially nice for ER, which NBC decided had to start an end one minute early, messing up other recordings that end on the 0s.
The S3 handles the case where a show runs over by a minute or starts a minute early via a "clip" feature. It can clip up to 5 minutes of a program. So, if ER starts a minute early (it did two years ago, now it starts a minute late) and you were recording two shows then ended at 10, it will clip the first minute of ER.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:22 PM   #114
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I am under the impression that "copy once" has already occured on teh tivo's hard drive so things then become copy no more.
It's at least a little open to interpretation - many cable company DVRs will let you offload a copy-once program from the hard drive to a D-VHS recorder, for instance. (Apparently they don't count the copy on the hard drive.) However, TiVo is very conservative about these things, so I suspect you're right and they'll consider the copy on the TiVo's hard drive the one copy you're allowed (although I'd be very happy to be corrected on that).
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:26 PM   #115
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It's at least a little open to interpretation - many cable company DVRs will let you offload a copy-once program from the hard drive to a D-VHS recorder, for instance. (Apparently they don't count the copy on the hard drive.) However, TiVo is very conservative about these things, so I suspect you're right and they'll consider the copy on the TiVo's hard drive the one copy you're allowed (although I'd be very happy to be corrected on that).

to be honest I'm not clear on it at all myself.

I'm planning for he worst and maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised....
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:39 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by MichaelK
Also streaming is apparently allowed since only one copy exists at a time (apparently that's how MS gets around the problem)

unfortunatly tivo doesn't Move or stream but rather copy's programs from one box to another.

Perhaps they can update MRV so first it copies(but locks the show) then deletes the original on the old box, then unlocks the program on the new show.

I think that might be legit in the eyes of cable. We'll have to keep our fingers crossed to see what tivo comes up with.
That's my hope to. I don't think it's likely but it's my hope. At least I'll be able to "offload" all the SD shows onto an S2DT TiVo in another room and then MRV them to the family room to save space. Might even be worth getting another S2DT for that.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:44 PM   #117
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It's at least a little open to interpretation - many cable company DVRs will let you offload a copy-once program from the hard drive to a D-VHS recorder, for instance. (Apparently they don't count the copy on the hard drive.)
The problem with that is that it's essentially no copy protection at all. Though one assumes that the D-VHS copy would be encrypted and marked "Copy No More" so that no further copies could be made from it, if the copy on the DVR continues to exist, you can make infinite copies of it, one at a time.

1394/DTCP was once imagined as a digital display interconnect--Mitsubishi vehemently swore that they'd never put an DVI-or-HDMI/HDCP connection on any of their displays, but they were forced to back down from that stance. It's perfectly legit to send a secure 1394/DTCP stream of a "Copy One Generation" recording if you mark that stream "Copy No More".
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:47 PM   #118
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I have read through this thread, but have not seen an answer to the e-sata / external storage question relative to the Series 3s I own. Will this functionality be added at the same time? I, too, heard that these issues were all interrelated to the existence of cable cards. Thanks...
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:48 PM   #119
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The problem with that is that it's essentially no copy protection at all. Though one assumes that the D-VHS copy would be encrypted and marked "Copy No More" so that no further copies could be made from it, if the copy on the DVR continues to exist, you can make infinite copies of it, one at a time.
Who knows what the reasoning is, but nonetheless, that's how many cable company DVRs work.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:49 PM   #120
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I have read through this thread, but have not seen an answer to the e-sata / external storage question relative to the Series 3s I own. Will this functionality be added at the same time? I, too, heard that these issues were all interrelated to the existence of cable cards. Thanks...
Nothing in this thread speaks to the eSata upgrade, nor would I expect it to.

I am sure once this is ready, Pony will announce it in a separate thread.

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