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Old 08-12-2007, 05:07 PM   #121
Chimpware
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There already is a poll, it just got buried in the posting lists, I will bump it.
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Old 08-13-2007, 12:37 AM   #122
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I've seen digital pixellation on my TiVo HD as well. It happens infrequently and is usually associated with rapid scene content changes. Blockiness occurs for a few frames causing square, light colored artifacts to replace areas of the image which are usually supposed to be small, bright image details. The pixellation can occur on analog channels as well as digital. So, I'm not so sure this is actually assocated purely with having two cablecards installed. Then again, having two active cablecards might do something to occasionally overwhelm data stream handling capacity somewhere in the HD TiVo

Artifacts I see are an awful lot like a data dropout to an MPEG decoder, but I don't see the characteristic green or purple blocks. Instead it looks like a portion of the image is improperly reconstructed for a few frames. The problem hasn't been horrible in the short time I've used the unit, but it's certainly not something I would expect to be rectified for the device to gain a good reputation.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:01 AM   #123
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I am currently running with the only HD being an OTA antenna. Don't get any more pixelation than with the signal straight into the HDTV. (pretty infrequent)

Comcast is scheduled out in a few weeks with cable cards. I hope it doesn't go down hill at that point, because right now it is pretty impressive compared to the old S2 hooked up to the HDTV.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:10 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpware
Well here are some possible thoughts:

1. We can replicate the issue in our lab.
2. It is software related and not hardware related.
3. It is a Tivo issue so those having it please do not troubleshoot further with your cable companies regarding cable card or signal issues.
4. We have a beta of the fix completed and in our lab it does remedy the issue.

Just some thoughts since you asked. Basically any update on progress as well as some detail about the source of the issue would be helpful.

As an aside if the problem were with their billing system software / hardware and as many people as have pixelation issues were not being billed monthly for service how quick do people think that would be fixed??? I seriously doubt this would last longer than 1 week.
the thing is that this issue is not so black and white as a logic glitch in a billing system. It could be both hardware and software related. It could be both Tivo and CC related, it would definitely be hard to say exactly where with so many places for a gremlin to set up housekeeping. There are just that many factors involved in bringing a clear picture to the screen. What is obvious from this thread though is that the pixellation happens when a cable card is introduced and is actively streaming a digital channel to be recorded
the fact that TiVo says it is a known issue and is not actively looking for more data tells me they have replicated it in the lab. Replicating it in the lab and getting to the root cause are two very different things. For TiVo to give out current thinking and then come upon a twist in the root cause after that or else find a different issue would just horribly confuse the situation even more. The best thing TiVo can do is let us know it is a known issue(check). That they are working on it (check) and then deliver a code fix instead of a press release.

so keep on adding data points here, never know when the right bit of info will make for an aha moment. However for Tivo to try and get a coherent dialog going with a large user base is just a useless exercise that will do neither side much good.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:57 AM   #125
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I've seen pixelation both with cable cards, and OTA only. Currently I'm configured for OTA only (my cable line got cut, waiting for comcast to come re-wire it), and I see pixelation on the tivo menus at times. Connected via component to a Samsung DLP.
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:07 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy
I've seen pixelation both with cable cards, and OTA only. Currently I'm configured for OTA only (my cable line got cut, waiting for comcast to come re-wire it), and I see pixelation on the tivo menus at times. Connected via component to a Samsung DLP.
Do you have cable cards installed in the Tivo HD currently?
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:50 PM   #127
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This is an interesting one...not sure if it's a problem or if its causing any issues, but when i go into the "Diagnostics" screen for the Cablecards, I get "Tuner 0", and it says it's associated with Cablecard 1. Then, I get "Tuner 1" and it is associated with Cablecard 2.

Seems kind of logical, but not really. Anyone know anything about this, or if its something i should try / can correct?
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:58 PM   #128
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No problem. That is just their internal labeling scheme -- card 1 is tuner 0 and card 2 is tuner 1. Imagine the look of horror if a cable tech had to find slot 0!

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Old 08-13-2007, 03:58 PM   #129
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Here's another report -

I'm using Cablevision in NJ. I have my older S2 attached via an SA cable box. I have my TiVoHD just below it, and the box and TiVo HD unit share a split line. IThe TiVoHD has two SA cards installed, and is running 8.1.7b. The TV is a Sony 50", and only has component video. It probably doesn't matter, but I have high speed digital cable and get really high performance from it (up to 6Mbit download). I do not have reception issues on the Cable Box/S2. My Harmony 880 controls both TiVos properly, too

I get pixelation about once a minute, no matter the channel (digital or not). Repeated play of pixelated portions of recordings or "live TV" will produce pixelation at the same time. I also get stuttering with no pixelation, on rare occasions. I do get some menu pixelation, but that seems to happen only when I'm switching from watching something to the main menu, and it does not happen when switching between menus. From that, I'm willing to believe it's a result of the video/signal, not some major glitch in the unit.

The pixelation is irritating, but I'm willing to give TiVo some time to fix it.

I'm also waiting for them to allow me to transfer my lifetime, but for now, I'm satisfied, and hope they patch this issue soon. I don't care if it's hardware or software, I just want it fixed. Bickering as to the source is rather pointless, however, it'll be better if it's software, since that's patchable without any extended downtime. If it's hardware, I expect TiVo to make good, one way or another. I don't care who solves it, I just want it solved.

As a side note, one thing I do notice is that the audio output levels on the S2 are lower, but I noticed that when I was doing TTG transfers and conversions. At the very least, I will keep my S2 until TTG is available on the TiVoHD, but I'm digressing here...
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Old 08-13-2007, 09:49 PM   #130
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Article covering issue:

http://www.electronista.com/articles...aunch.trouble/
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:05 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
What's your point about how long software fixes take?
The point is, many of these people are screaming they are going to dump the platform in 2 weeks if it isn't fixed. It is unreasonable to require a company to try to fix an issue of any sort inside 2 weeks. The people who want to send back their TiVo HD DVRs are free to do so, but they should not distribute hysteria by suggesting the manufacturer should fix it in 2 weeks, nor badmouth TiVo after the fact for not being able to fix it in 2 weeks, assuming some of the issues are in TiVo's lap in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Typically fixing the problem is one thing, testing and releasing to production is another thing entirely.
Of course, but that's not relevant to my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Pixelation in Tivo menus shouldn't have a thing to do with cable signal strength.
'Absolutely correct. The Menu is generated internally.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:41 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer
The point is, many of these people are screaming they are going to dump the platform in 2 weeks if it isn't fixed. It is unreasonable to require a company to try to fix an issue of any sort inside 2 weeks. The people who want to send back their TiVo HD DVRs are free to do so, but they should not distribute hysteria by suggesting the manufacturer should fix it in 2 weeks, nor badmouth TiVo after the fact for not being able to fix it in 2 weeks, assuming some of the issues are in TiVo's lap in the first place.
Well again, you are off base, let's work back to front this time;

1. Tivo has admitted to many on the phone, including me finally, that this is there issue and it is software related (I hope they are correct here) so it is "In their lap".
2. No one is creating hysteria, people are just repsonding to a product that does not work properly. In most cases we don't care why, but it is helpful for piece of mind to know. I don't care what causes the problem personally, I paid for a wolring product and am paying a service fee to use it properly. It does not work properly, so either they fix it or it goes back. Simple as that.
3. It is not badmouthing to accurately post about your experience with Tivo. If they look bad in those posts it is on them. They pushed a product to market with known issues IMHO. If that were not the case how did they magically push a fix for the slot 2 issue in 6 days, if software issues take as long to fix as you claim.

So in the end again, this is a Tivo issue, they admit it, and if they don't fix it many people will return these defective systems within the 30 day period. I am hoping they fix it, I want to keep the untis I have, but I will not sit around with pixelation every 10 to 30 seconds on the screen after paying for the untis and paying a subscription fee. I will also continue to tell people about the issues if asked and encourage people not to purchase the system until this is remedied.
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:17 AM   #133
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Here's a new symptom. Just this morning my screen pixelated, and the info screen popped up. My remote was sitting on the coffee table, untouched.

Weird.

How about an update TiVoPony?

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Old 08-14-2007, 08:40 AM   #134
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I have a TiVo HD with 2 cable cards through Cox connected via component and am getting pixelation on digital AND analog stations along with the TiVo Central screen intermittently.
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:09 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpware
Interesting that it's getting coverage outside our beloved forums, but sounds like they have it wrong, too, suggesting a couple of times in the article that it's just the SA cards.

I believe it's pretty clear that it's both SA and Motorola cards and not limited to slot 2. Might have been worse in slot 2, but it's happening for slot 1 and for M-Cards (which only use slot 1 -- I can attest to that as it's my situation).
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:09 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpware
Do you have cable cards installed in the Tivo HD currently?
No, I had to physically eject them for the guided setup to work correctly. Even if I selected "antenna only", it wouldn't remove the cable channels until I removed the card and redid setup. Of course, it still knows that I once had a cable card, as it prompts me to put it back in after reboots.
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Old 08-15-2007, 02:20 AM   #137
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Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.

Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:35 AM   #138
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Me Too

I just wanted to add a data point. I'm really disappointed. I have:

1. B software
2. SA cable cards, Cox Phoenix
3. 1080i Fixed through an HDMI cable
4. Optical Sound to my Philips receiver
4. Signal strength almost always at 100%
5. SNR at 36

I have pixelation on any channel. At worst several times a minute. At least several times in 5 minutes. The pixelation is bad enough but the audio dropping out is really annoying. It's really not watchable when it's really messing up.

Called TIVO support and reported the problem, got a case number and told them I was going to have to send it back if they didn't get it fixed within the 30 day return period. They said they knew about the problem, were getting a ton of calls on it, and to call to extend my return period if necessary but didn't think it would be necessary.

I hope he's right. I can't remember the last time I had ANY pixelation on my cable box. I can tell my wife is pissed about it but she knows how disappointed I am so she doesn't say anything. She almost said something when the audio kept cutting out during the Most Talented performances tonight.

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Old 08-15-2007, 03:38 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Kuo
Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.

Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.
I'm going to upgrade to a WD 500 this weekend. Do you really think it helped? You didn't change any of the parameters for the drive? I don't even know how to change them. Do you?

Thanks,

Gary
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:58 AM   #140
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http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/14...ocking-issues/

The more media coverage the better
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Old 08-15-2007, 05:35 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Kuo
Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.

Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.
Not sure what you were seeing is the same issue others are having. Pixelation in my case is much more frequesnt than you were seeing.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:04 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Kuo
Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.

Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.
If the drive had trouble keeping up with the data streams then there is a problem with the drive. A 5400 RPM drive has no problem with several HD data streams. And these drives are 7200RPM drives. I had 5400rpm drives in one of my HR10-250 boxes. The performance was identical to the HR10-250 boxes I had with 7200 rpm drives.
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:45 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Kuo
Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.
I find this tidbit interesting. When I called tivo about the macroblocking last week the CSR wanted to know when and where I bought the unit. He also indicated that while they didn't know definitively what was causing the problem, but that it might be the 'harddrive' on certain units. I didn't think much about this at the time because for a CSR the term 'harddrive' could mean just about anything but the remote control (disk, cpu, tivo, etc).

I could easily imagine the following scenario for the defective units: the cable cards while decrypting/tuning digital channels occasionally cause a slight voltage {spike/dip} which somehow impacts writing the datastream to these sensitized disks.

Is anyone with upgraded units still seeing the pixelation?

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Old 08-15-2007, 09:18 AM   #144
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Left the drive parameters as is out of the box. No acoustic management changes (which would derate a drive from its maximum speed in favor of quieter seeks). Some more hours of viewing will further tell if this fixed what I saw, but so far, so good.
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:58 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpware
Jesus. Too bad that's inaccurate. "The issue is not universal but has been reported by a disproportionately large number of TiVo subscribers". Um, how many subscribers does TiVo have - something like 3 million - and how many people have reported it here? Unless this writer has secret inside access to TiVo's support call logs or his interpretation of "disproportionately large" is different than mine, I think that's a poor turn of phrase.

He also mentions that Motorola cablecard users are immune, which isn't the case. No wonder so many issues get blown out of proportion. Idiot.
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:05 AM   #146
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I upgraded the hard drive in my unit yesterday and am still seeing the problem, even in Tivo units. I did enable acoustic management for the new drive.
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:22 AM   #147
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I think I figured out how to fix the issue!!!

1. Put the unit in a box (don't forget the remote)
2. Bring it out to the car
3. Drive it back to where I bought it
4. Get a refund

I was giving it a chance, but on top of watching intermittent flashbacks of Tetris throughout watching shows (even when showing static shots with no movement) my unit decided to just reboot without warning yesterday. When I came home and turned on my TV, I saw 'Just a few minutes more' which meant my shows weren't being taped.

NEVER had this kind of thing happen with my first TiVo which I've had for 7 years.

What a joke this thing is. I give up. Goodbye TiVo!
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:36 AM   #148
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Well, there's no doubt that returns are going to drive Tivo to get a solution out sooner rather than later. If this was a simple fix we already would have seen it rolled out. I'm still surprised that they didn't run into this in testing.

On the other hand my wife is totally falling for Tivo (I'm jealous) so at this point it doesn't look like ours is going back. I will report the issues to Tivo and if they don't get them resolved in the next month or so then I will expect them to work out some kind of refund, etc.
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:41 AM   #149
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not sure if anyone has the same issue as I do, but I get (really bad) pixelation on 2 channels, and those 2 channels only, on tuner 0. I've tried swapping the two cablecards, no difference. I checked the signal strength, and those 2 channels have lower numbers than others (low to mid 80s vs mid to upper 90s on others). rebooting didn't seem to help. maybe I should give it one more reboot. or do something to increase the signal strength. anyone have recommendations on improving signal strength?
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:53 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboDunky
I think I figured out how to fix the issue!!!

1. Put the unit in a box (don't forget the remote)
2. Bring it out to the car
3. Drive it back to where I bought it
4. Get a refund
You forgot:

5. $86 in hole for cable card install.

Number 5 is what is keeping from returning the unit at the moment. I don't like these near hundred dollar learning experiences.

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