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Old 08-13-2007, 02:18 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblake
If you have thousands of users on a node, serving hundreds of available channels, with half the capacity, the cable cos are setting themselves up for a very bad problem
They don't. The local CATV company has fewer than 500 customers per node. If by some miracle every customer had their TVs on and every TV had a different show playing, then they would be in trouble. However, even with VOD and Video Re-Do, it's going to be rare for there to be more than 200 different video streams to be requested. By making certain the number of customers does not greatly exceed the total bandwidth they could possibly select, the CATV company can avoid such issues except in very rare cases. I doubt many people will complain if it happens once a year, or so. The odds of it happening to the SAME customer again and again is extremely low.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:24 AM   #182
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Sdv

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw
Comcast in Chicago is definitely all digital, not sure about the SDV part.

But either way you're right, why bother with SDV if you have plenty of bandwidth.
Because consumers love things like Video On Demand and Video Redo. SDV allows the consumer to pick from essentially thousands of program streams. Remember, the program stream for Desperate Housewives starting at 20:00 is different from the very same show starting at 20:10.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:49 AM   #183
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Chill out!

Folks, chill out a little. There are a number of ways the TiVo can be made to work with 2.0 CableCards and SDV. Which way will be for the near future to tell:

1. It already works. It's possible the Series III already has the capability. I haven't seen anyone with any authority try to answer this question. Certainly one of the reasons for the delay of the introduction of the Series III was the delay in implementing CC 2.0. While I suspect TiVo simply couldn't wait any longer and just deployed the Series III without upstream capabilities, I would not be overly surprised to learn the CATV module in the Series III is 2-way.

2. Swap out the CATV RF receiver module for a transciever. If any of you have looked inside your Series III boxes (I am NOT recommending you do this - it voids the warranty), you will have noticed the RF receivers are monolithic units separate from the TiVo motherboard. As long as the board traces will support the proper communications to the transceiver, swapping out the CATV receiver for a transceiver is simple and inexpensive. While I imagine TiVo may not have implemented a 2 way transceiver, I find it unlikely they would not have implemented a means to interface to a transceiver - assuming the interface is at all different. It well may not be.

3. Replace the motherboard. This is also simple and not terribly more expensive than replacing the receiver. The cost to TiVo would be fairly small, especially since they can recycle most of the components.

4. Implement 2-way communications via the Ethernet connection. This may require some fancy-schmancy firewall agreements between TiVo and the CATV companies, but it's doable. Making the TiVo into a VPN endpoint for the CATV company is not technically difficult.

5. A hang-on accessory. There are several ways this could be accomplished internally, and the easiest might involve moving the CableCards out of the TiVo and into the dongle, but it would not be difficult. It would interface with the TiVo both via RF and Ethernet. If TiVo doesn't do it, there are plenty of 3rd party manufacturers out there who would be interested in taking this on.
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Old 08-13-2007, 03:00 AM   #184
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Crippled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
So let me understand this, Since I am going to be moving to Austin, and TWC appears to be the only cable I can get, my series three tivo is going to be crippled?
Technically, I suppose, yes. You won't be able to get Pay Per View, but then you can't get PPV now. You won't be able to get VOD, but then you can't get VOD now. There may be some channels you would like to receive that you cannot yet receive. How many, I don't know. I don't live in Austin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
Tivo was well aware of SDV and made no option for a series three to work?
It's unknown, but I doubt they have not. I find it unlikely TiVo has no strategic plans for implementing SDV capability. The hardware may already be capable, or not. The software to handle SDV is not complex.

You might have to send your Series III in for an upgrade, or they may sell an outboard solution. Or they may just implement software to activate the Tx section of the transceiver, if they went with a 2-way hardware solution from te get-go.
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:10 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
Tivo was well aware of SDV and made no option for a series three to work?
What are you suggesting that they should have done?

I think you should go back and read this thread; there is a lot of important information that you perhaps haven't read over or didn't adequately understand.
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:12 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer
Another big reason is the FCC is requiring CATV operators to provide a la carte programming.
The FCC is not requiring CATV operators to provide a la carte programming.
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:19 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer
Another big reason is the FCC is requiring CATV operators to provide a la carte programming. 100% digital lineups are the only practical way to provide this.
...
Time Warner has been trying to get rid of their CATV holdings for some years. No one seems to want to buy at the price TW wants, and plans for an IPO fell through, but they're still looking for a way to get rid of non-core businesses. CATV is definitely non-core for Time Warner.
When did the FCC start requiring a-la-carte? This was the last I heard:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6434492.html

What's this? http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=t&s=TWC
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:22 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer
There may be some channels you would like to receive that you cannot yet receive. How many, I don't know. I don't live in Austin.
Just look at the first post. It lists the SDV channels in Austin, which appear to be the most extensive we have seen of any provider.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...3&page=1&pp=30
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Old 08-13-2007, 03:29 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker
What are you suggesting that they should have done?

I think you should go back and read this thread; there is a lot of important information that you perhaps haven't read over or didn't adequately understand.

Yes I read it and understand it. I also understand that as more HD channels come online more channels will go SDV.

As to what they "should" have done? They should have made sure they could add the ability to the series 3 or waited to release it until they knew.

When I bought my Series three, I knowing accepted that I would not get PPV or VOD. No big loss, I have never used it anyway. (Well may $12.00 or so in PPV). But as of right now, 3 channels that I or my wife watch are SDV.

I have tried three other recorders other than Tivo, and most performed better at some function than Tivo. But I keep Tivo for the remote and the Menus. So I wont go to another system, simple because I like Tivo.

Now what "should" they do, just let me know if they are working on it. Thats all just communicate with me.
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:14 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
Yes I read it and understand it. I also understand that as more HD channels come online more channels will go SDV.

As to what they "should" have done? They should have made sure they could add the ability to the series 3 or waited to release it until they knew.
....

1) no one know that they DONT have the ability to add 2-way communication to EITHER the S3 or the Tivo HD. It could be as simple as enabling it on hardware already in the boxes or more complex by adding a dongle of some sort
2) wait to release until they knew what the end game was would mean no S3 and no Tivo HD even today. The current party line from cable is that to do 2-way you need OCAP and that essentially means no tivo UI- likely there's a compromise to be had (that Rodgers and cable have spoken about to congres and the FCC) that means there is a something they can do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
...

Now what "should" they do, just let me know if they are working on it. Thats all just communicate with me.
The CEO told congress they are working on a compromise with cable and they hope cable will do the right thing. What more can they say really? I guess they can be more specific and say "we have a solution that we proposed to cable and cable is mulling it over" but getting into a pissing match with cable at this juncture doesn't really help tivo much since tivo is essentially powerless and the FCC doesn't seem to be in the mood to force cable to do the right thing.

I dont really think Tivo has ANY good options except to hope cable does the right thing...
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:47 PM   #191
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On my local (Pittsburgh) Comcast AVS forum I received this reply from a person who supposedly has "inside sources at Comcast":

Quote:
According to my source, they (Comcast) want to keep TiVo Series 3 customers happy. So, if they are not NOW mapping to all digital on CableCards (for ADS systems), the plan is that they WILL...eventually. I asked about SDV, and that is also a plan, but again, they know they don't want to piss-off TiVo Series 3 customers.

This is all especially true because: 1.) Verizon supports TiVo Series 3 with Cable Cards, 2.) Verizon is "all-digital" from the get-go., and 3.) Verizon does NOT use SDV.

So Comcast views not supporting CableCards as akin to holding the door open themselves for Verizon to come and take customers away...
Oh were it only true.
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Old 08-13-2007, 06:25 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
Yes I read it and understand it.
Obviously not, as you would have understood the impossible nature of what you were asking.

Tivo has communicated many times that they are working on a solution, you're just not listening.

I'm glad that the S3 was released as is a year ago (almost). I've had 11 months of trouble free, HD bliss.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:07 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by GoHokies!
Obviously not, as you would have understood the impossible nature of what you were asking.

Tivo has communicated many times that they are working on a solution, you're just not listening.

I'm glad that the S3 was released as is a year ago (almost). I've had 11 months of trouble free, HD bliss.

You seem to have some anger issues. You make want to check with your health care provide to see if they can recommend the proper counseling. It would really help and who knows, you might have more people enjoy being around you.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:33 PM   #194
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
You seem to have some anger issues. You make want to check with your health care provide to see if they can recommend the proper counseling. It would really help and who knows, you might have more people enjoy being around you.
Wow, 3 posts here and you're already an expert on my mental health!

Try keeping the posts a little more on topic, we generally prefer on topic, less personally attacking posts around here. Maybe if you paid a little closer attention to the content of the posts around here and a little bit less on my posting style, you would understand wouldn't ask questions that have obvious answers.
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:11 AM   #195
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Not yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker
The FCC is not requiring CATV operators to provide a la carte programming.
They are not requiring it YET. They are making lots of noises to the effect, and while it could just be saber rattling, the FCC can be very capricious.
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:19 AM   #196
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FCC Requirements

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Originally Posted by sfhub
When did the FCC start requiring a-la-carte?
I worded that badly. I should perhaps have said "encouraging", or "threatening". The point is, it's looming on the horizon. Whether it ever actually becomes a mandate or not, SDV will poise the CATV companies to provide it f need be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub
I'm not sure of your point. The aborted IPO was several years ago. Time Warner divested themselves of us when our stock was up, as well. We used to be owned by them, too.

Last edited by lrhorer : 08-14-2007 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:52 AM   #197
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Austin

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Originally Posted by philipl411
So let me understand this, Since I am going to be moving to Austin, and TWC appears to be the only cable I can get, my series three tivo is going to be crippled?
Oh, by the way, depending on where in Austin you live, Grande might be an alternative to TWC. I believe they have a significant amount of plant in Austin. (I could be mistaken.)
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:04 AM   #198
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OK, so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipl411
Yes I read it and understand it. I also understand that as more HD channels come online more channels will go SDV.
Personally I would find it difficult to care very much less. Having viewed 1080i content for a while, I find it rather difficult to watch 480i material. In San Antonio there is only 1 channel I cannot get I really wish I could, and that is A&E HD. Of course you aren't going to be in San Antonio, but even in Austin most of the SDV channels are 480i. It does look like you're out of luck with Fox Sports HD, A&E HD, Music HD, Cinemax HD, and Starz HD. For me, I would only care about A&E HD and StarzHD. Of course, your mileage may vary, and for some reason you might actually want some of those SD channels, but the list leaves me pretty non-plussed.
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Old 08-14-2007, 05:36 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by philipl411
As to what they "should" have done? They should have made sure they could add the ability to the series 3 or waited to release it until they knew.
Thereby depriving themselves of a year's worth of sales. And they still don't know, so they still wouldn't have an HD product in the marketplace. I cannot believe you actually, seriously, think that's a smart idea, given their tenuous financial situation.
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Old 08-14-2007, 05:38 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer
They are not requiring it YET.
And they may never, which is why I corrected your earlier misstatements to that effect.
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Old 08-14-2007, 05:51 AM   #201
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Actually I think the buzz about ala carte pricing is coming more from Congress and their committees, rather than from the FCC.
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:23 AM   #202
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Actually I think the buzz about ala carte pricing is coming more from Congress and their committees, rather than from the FCC.
Well, I think you will hear specific FCC commissioners (like the chairman) blathering on about it, but the commission itself, obviously not.
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Old 08-15-2007, 02:15 AM   #203
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A la carte video

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker
Well, I think you will hear specific FCC commissioners (like the chairman) blathering on about it, but the commission itself, obviously not.
A lot of consumers think it would be a good idea, as well. When I was in the business, I heard a lot of complaints from customers about having to pay for channels they didn't watch, and I sympathize. For some customers it might indeed be cheaper. For most I suspect not, but one never knows.
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Old 08-15-2007, 06:04 AM   #204
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That really points out the no-win situation that a la carte is, especially if it is to be driven by consumers wanting it. They'll go from complaining about "having to pay for channels they don't watch" to complaining about how all the channels now cost $3-$4 each.
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Old 08-16-2007, 09:33 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker
That really points out the no-win situation that a la carte is, especially if it is to be driven by consumers wanting it. They'll go from complaining about "having to pay for channels they don't watch" to complaining about how all the channels now cost $3-$4 each.

exactly-

everyone seems to assume that because the package divided by channels is like 50 cents a channel or something now that if you went a la carte it woudl be the same. As you point out the reality is the "the channels they do watch" will now cost 3 or 4 or maybe even 8-10 (espn or disney perhaps) and the crap channels will cost a nickel.

Another possibility is the "a la carte" that sirius and xm have said they would do if they are allowed to merge. I forget the details but in the end there's very little to be saved- you buy the base package of 50 channels for a bit of savings but the "premium" content can't be included and would be much more to get so in the end it would just be cheaper to get the whole giant package as today- since a good percentage of their subs, join up for that "premium" content there would be little to no savings for most.



all that said- I'm not sure how SDV really matters for A la carte? Once you are all digital couldn't you just do a la carte anyway even if it's using old fashioned broadcastng techniques?
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:58 AM   #206
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TWC SDV in Albany, NY

TWC in Albany, NY has started using SDV. Here is the list so far that no longer can be tuned in by the Series-3 with CC's.

746 Showtime West
747 Showtime 2 West
748 Showtime 3 West
749 Showtime Extreme West
750 Showtime Beyond West
754 Showtime Next West
755 Showtime Family Zone West
756 Showtime Women West

TimeWarner Cable Channel Lineup for NY
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:47 PM   #207
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Sdv

How are you guys finding out what is on SDV? I have a SA8300HD box from TWC and can access the service menu...is there a way to tell in there?
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:38 PM   #208
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If you know what freq's they are using, you can find out that way.
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:55 PM   #209
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How are you guys finding out what is on SDV? I have a SA8300HD box from TWC and can access the service menu...is there a way to tell in there?
I found out the other night on TWC when using a S2+cable_box when I changed to Showtime West, there was a popup from the cable_box saying something like "please wait accessing channel SDV". Then I went to to the S3 with the CC's and went to the same channel and it was black with a tivo message saying "cant tune to channel, no signal".
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:48 PM   #210
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Freq - SDV

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Originally Posted by cableguy763
If you know what freq's they are using, you can find out that way.
I have the freq avail to me in the service menu but I don't know which freq corresponds to SDV.
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