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Old 08-03-2007, 12:13 PM   #61
rainwater
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Originally Posted by bkdtv
That drive is not certified for 24/7 operation. It may work just fine, or it may die on you in six months. I don't know about you, but I would rather not risk hundreds of gigabytes of HDTV recordings just to save a few bucks.

If long-term reliability is a concern, and you want a 750Gb drive, then I would opt for the Seagate DB35. You can buy the 750Gb DB35 (ST3750840SCE) for $265 + shipping from TheNerds.net. They also sell the 500Gb version (ST3500830SCE) for ~$150, but they are currently out of stock.

Note you support spike2k5's efforts by using that link.
I've used Western Digital drives in my TiVos for years and they weren't designed for "24/7 use". However, I have yet to have one die on me. I have not seen any data that says that the DB35 drives actually have a lower failure rate than other drives. Frankly, I am more concerned with balancing low sound levels with a good price.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:19 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by rainwater
I've used Western Digital drives in my TiVos for years and they weren't designed for "24/7 use". However, I have yet to have one die on me. I have not seen any data that says that the DB35 drives actually have a lower failure rate than other drives. Frankly, I am more concerned with balancing low sound levels with a good price.
That's because none exists... And the mechanicals of the DB35 are the same as any other current Seagate drive; its the firmware that is slightly different.

The reality of the situation is that the reliability of the drive you put in will be based upon two factors (assuming you are purchasing a high quality brand)

1) randomness; a certain percentage of all drives will fail, no matter what you do
2) handling; if you drop or mishandle a drive, it will have a shorter life

With that in mind, buying locally is certainly not a bad idea, especially if its in retail packaging (very protected during the shipping process). And buying mail order is not a problem either as long as the drive is properly packaged and not drop kicked in the process.

You should really just do what you are most comfortable with, when it comes to those two choices and you will be fine.
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by tivoupgrade
That's because none exists... And the mechanicals of the DB35 are the same as any other current Seagate drive; its the firmware that is slightly different.

The reality of the situation is that the reliability of the drive you put in will be based upon two factors (assuming you are purchasing a high quality brand)

1) randomness; a certain percentage of all drives will fail, no matter what you do
2) handling; if you drop or mishandle a drive, it will have a shorter life

With that in mind, buying locally is certainly not a bad idea, especially if its in retail packaging (very protected during the shipping process). And buying mail order is not a problem either as long as the drive is properly packaged and not drop kicked in the process.

You should really just do what you are most comfortable with, when it comes to those two choices and you will be fine.
Is there any capability to load new FW to a Seagate drive to make the 7200.10 drive behave with DB35 profile for acoustics, etc?

I just bought what I thought would be a 7200.9 500GB Seagate drive from CC ($105 after coupon) and opened up the box to find a7200.10 drive in the package.

I know that the 7200.10 is a tank of a drive but it has a reputation for being noisy. If there was a way to load it with DB35 FW that would be great.
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:49 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by jmpage2
Is there any capability to load new FW to a Seagate drive to make the 7200.10 drive behave with DB35 profile for acoustics, etc?

I just bought what I thought would be a 7200.9 500GB Seagate drive from CC ($105 after coupon) and opened up the box to find a7200.10 drive in the package.

I know that the 7200.10 is a tank of a drive but it has a reputation for being noisy. If there was a way to load it with DB35 FW that would be great.
There is no way you'll be able to do that, unfortunately. Even if its possible, with that particular drive, its tightly controlled by Seagate. The reason they offer the DB35 drives is for the very reason you speak of, however.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:34 PM   #65
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There is no way you'll be able to do that, unfortunately. Even if its possible, with that particular drive, its tightly controlled by Seagate. The reason they offer the DB35 drives is for the very reason you speak of, however.
OK, fair enough. I know that there are some tools for the IBM/HP drives that do similar things so I thought I'd ask.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:46 PM   #66
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Thanks to spike2k5's work, my TivoHD now has a 750Gb drive.

Screenshot below.



Last edited by bkdtv : 08-16-2007 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:43 PM   #67
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DITTO...big time. Thanks Spike...

I had to get BB to price match a drive at CC so I now have a 500GB with 64 hours on my Tivo HD. It only cost me 109 to do the upgrade. It was AMAZINGLY simple. Thanks again....whooo hooo.
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:50 PM   #68
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so I now have a 500GB with 64 hours on my Tivo HD. It only cost me 109 to do the upgrade. It was AMAZINGLY simple. Thanks again....whooo hooo.

So what drive did you end up getting? The 500GB WD on sale?
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Old 08-04-2007, 09:10 AM   #69
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So what drive did you end up getting? The 500GB WD on sale?
ST3500641AS-RK 119 at CC price matched to BB and then I had some coupons to knock it down more.
This was so easy I may go ahead and the next time I see a TB on sale go buy it online and then put the 500GB as an additional drive on my server.
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:03 AM   #70
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I upgraded my S3 myself when I first got it, been going fine ever since. That was before this came out. I think it was just using regular mfstools?



Is there some software update coming from TiVo that might break that?
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:06 AM   #71
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I upgraded my S3 myself when I first got it, been going fine ever since. That was before this came out. I think it was just using regular mfstools?

Is there some software update coming from TiVo that might break that?
People have been upgrading the hard drives on their Tivos for years.

No Tivo update has ever broken a drive upgrade, as far as I know. I would still hang on to the original drive though, just in case.
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:36 AM   #72
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ST3500641AS-RK 119 at CC price matched to BB and then I had some coupons to knock it down more.
This was so easy I may go ahead and the next time I see a TB on sale go buy it online and then put the 500GB as an additional drive on my server.
That's the one I bought too, I think I ended up paying $105 + tax.

It does have a reputation for being very noisy with seeks though.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:47 PM   #73
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What type of drive do I need for my TivoHD to upgrade? I know it has to be an SATA, is the connection called secure connect?
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:51 PM   #74
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What type of drive do I need for my TivoHD to upgrade? I know it has to be an SATA, is the connection called secure connect?
Ignore "secure connect". Any SATA drive would work.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:01 PM   #75
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Although you can get a good deal on the Western Digital drives. You can pick up their 750GB perpendicular recording drive for $200 and their 500 GB drive is a little over $100 now. Both of those drives are very quiet, especially after enabling the acoustic management.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:07 PM   #76
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Although you can get a good deal on the Western Digital drives. You can pick up their 750GB perpendicular recording drive for $200 and their 500 GB drive is a little over $100 now. Both of those drives are very quiet, especially after enabling the acoustic management.
Yes, WD would be my top choice. All of my TiVos have WD drives. The regular Seagates are too noisy (for TiVo usage), and the DB35 drives are too expensive.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:35 PM   #77
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I've always used Samsung drives, been very pleased with their holding up well and being quiet.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:58 PM   #78
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Thanks for all the info, I see newegg has 750 gb WD for 199 before shipping. So is everyone pretty comfortable that the new tools are working ok and so are the tivo's that have been upgraded so far? I just got a new TivoHD and want to pop in a new drive. What could be the potential problems?
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:42 AM   #79
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I know this might be a dumb question (at least at this point in time), but can anyone explain why/why not it is/is not possible to utilize two internal hard drives in the TivoHD? I remember reading Megazone's opening of the TivoHD @ Tivolovers that there seems to be screwholes in place for a dual hard drive harness (ala weaknees dual drive upgrade for Series 1 & 2).

Now I know obviously there isn't any harness created yet for the TivoHD (and maybe there never will be), but from a technical and software standpoint, would this be in the realm of possibility? I not really interested in an external sata drive setup. I much rather have everything inside to make it easier to move if need be.

Maybe even a setup such that the external SATA is activated, but the drive itself is internal to the machine. Something like that might work (might not). Anyways, just wanted to bounce some ideas off you guys and see what you might think.

Personally for me, my dream is to have a dual drive 2 TB drive setup in my TivoHD... Maybe I'm dreaming?
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:46 AM   #80
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I know this might be a dumb question (at least at this point in time), but can anyone explain why/why not it is/is not possible to utilize two internal hard drives in the TivoHD? I remember reading Megazone's opening of the TivoHD @ Tivolovers that there seems to be screwholes in place for a dual hard drive harness (ala weaknees dual drive upgrade for Series 1 & 2).
The TivoHD has one internal SATA connector and one external eSATA connector. The eSATA connection is not supported by the current software / driver.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:49 AM   #81
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oh yeah, i know. Something about a Kickstart 62, right?
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:56 AM   #82
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oh yeah, i know. Something about a Kickstart 62, right?
No, I believe he is saying eSata is not supported on the TiVo HD at this time, period. Kickstart 62 included in that statement.
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:26 AM   #83
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I guess I didn't make myself clear enough in the last post.

1) Yes, I know the eSATA is not activated
2) Yes, I know that the Kickstart 62 doesn't work for the TivoHD

My question was it in the real of possibility if/when it does occur to have "two hard drives internal to the TivoHD, even if one of those is the connector destined for the eSATA port."

That's it, nothing more, nothing less. If anyone can shed light on that question alone, i would appreciated it.
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:34 AM   #84
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There's a thread about routing the eSATA cable back into the S3 to create a 2 drive internal system. You can search for it if you want. Some of it is probably applicable to the THD.
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:37 AM   #85
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There's a thread about routing the eSATA cable back into the S3 to create a 2 drive internal system. You can search for it if you want. Some of it is probably applicable to the THD.

Thanks sfhub. That's what I was looking for. I'll do a search.
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:01 AM   #86
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I went and tried to search for the thread but couldn't find anything. It is possible I'm confusing the earlier attempts to route the internal SATA cable to an external RAID box. In any event, the issues to look at would be where to route the eSATA cable and whether you need to drill holes or can use existing air vents, where to mount the drive, and where to splice the power. You also want to investigate whether the internal power supply has the juice to handle 2 drives.
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:30 AM   #87
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Well the power requirement would probably be the thing. According to this picture @ tivolovers.com <Click Here> , the external sata port is connected to what seems to be a regular sata connector inside. My apologies if direct linking is frowned upon, I just wanted to point out what i saw.

Just wondering though if there would be a power problem. There wasn't one in the Series 1/2, why would there be in the Series 3? Does SATA draw more power than IDE drives? Just curious.
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:41 AM   #88
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It does look like you should be able to connect your internal SATA cable directly to the motherboard.

Regarding the power supply, it just depends on the ratings for the power supply they chose to use. It may have the amps to handle a second drive with no problem. Not saying it is a definite issue, just something to look at.

S1/S2 models had incarnations that had 2 internal drives. S3 / HD have always been single drive designs. It is within the realm of possibility that to cut costs, a more limited power supply would be considered if the design never intended for there to be 2 internal drives. There is nothing that says they have to do this either. Just depends on what they chose to use.
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:52 AM   #89
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Seagate 750GB Internal Serial ATA Hard Drive

Model: ST3750640AS-RK


IS this OK???? I can't find the one locally that is the Seagate 750GB Internal Serial ATA Hard Drive

Model: ST3750640NS like the post....this one ends in NS and the the local model ends in AS
The enterprise drive (NS) only makes sense in a multi-drive server environment because you are paying for the unneeded anti rotational vibration compensation mechanism. The AS is a more appropriate drive and has a better published annualized failure rate than the NS but the default head seek acoustics are not appropriate for a DVR.

If you are interested in Seagate then the most appropriate drive as bkdtv sugessted is the DB35, which is essentially an AS with modified firmware including a detuned head seek. If you don't have purchase access to a DB35 or are not willing to pay the premium then a WD or Hitachi is a better route (because of the adjustable acoustics without needing to buy their DVR model.)
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:06 AM   #90
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Well the power requirement would probably be the thing. According to this picture @ tivolovers.com <Click Here> , the external sata port is connected to what seems to be a regular sata connector inside.
Yes, that internal SATA connector can be used, which is not available for the S3. Someone did route the S3 eSATA port back inside the S3, but that didn't look like a clean/permanent solution.
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