TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-19-2007, 07:44 AM   #91
SugarBowl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlib
Here is how I look at the bandwidth and SDV issue. I pretty much get all the HD content I could want (with the one possible exception of no ABC) from my local Comcast now. Getting rid of analog will allow a 200% increase in available digital bandwidth. If Comcast applied that extra bandwidth to SDV while keeping their current lineup as is they could keep me happy as a cable card user and still offer the dozens of new HD stations they seem to want in the future.

They do not make any money from the analog only customers anyway. The profit they make from me and other full-boat subscribers like me would more than pay for the set top boxes needed for all the little old ladies with old TVs they might be required to support on lifeline service. They should just accelerate the demise of analog and the bandwidth issue becomes less important.
But of course your monthly rate would go up every year as they added these new channels that you can't watch.

They'll probably even raise the cablecard rental rate.
SugarBowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 02:59 PM   #92
VinceA
Registered User
 
VinceA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Posts: 1,086
I didn't see it mentioned here but Cablevision in the NYC metro area has been using SDV on their systems. Right now it's limited to bringing the international channels to users but their looking at it as the best use of the bandwidth . So, I'm hoping that TiVo comes up with something before something I want gets relegated to the SDV 'shadow zone'.
VinceA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 07:07 PM   #93
FoxFireX
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 34
If you guys are still looking to keep the list of affected channels and areas updated, chow down on this for Time Warner Cable, San Antonio, TX:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanAn...cablecard.html

I talked to a customer service guy who actually knew a lot about the whole SDV setup, and he told me that 125 (ESPN2 HD) was also switched, and therefore unavailable. He actually thought that the S3 might support the v2.0 CCs that have quietly entered their hardware stream, but it looks like that was wrong (at least as far as working with SDV goes). Here's hoping there's a solution to be had somewhere.
FoxFireX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 07:29 PM   #94
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Thanks FoxFireX,
It looks like Time Warner/Bright House Networks (loosely affiliated) are the SDV leaders and Texas is the worst.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 08:33 PM   #95
HDTiVo
Not so Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceA
I didn't see it mentioned here but Cablevision in the NYC metro area has been using SDV on their systems. Right now it's limited to bringing the international channels to users but their looking at it as the best use of the bandwidth . So, I'm hoping that TiVo comes up with something before something I want gets relegated to the SDV 'shadow zone'.
Are they not using SDV for all those Voom(?) HD channels they are adding?
HDTiVo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 09:42 PM   #96
DCIFRTHS
I dumped SDV / cable
 
DCIFRTHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
Are they not using SDV for all those Voom(?) HD channels they are adding?
No. They are not.
DCIFRTHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 07:55 AM   #97
VinceA
Registered User
 
VinceA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Posts: 1,086
Thank God for that. I was happy when I saw Wilt mention that on the CV mailing list. I'm looking forward to seeing Monsters HD when I finally get some sort of HD DVR.
VinceA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 12:24 AM   #98
DCIFRTHS
I dumped SDV / cable
 
DCIFRTHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceA
Thank God for that. I was happy when I saw Wilt mention that on the CV mailing list. I'm looking forward to seeing Monsters HD when I finally get some sort of HD DVR.
Monsters HD is pretty good...

Are you referring to the Yahoo! CV mailing list?
DCIFRTHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 04:11 AM   #99
VinceA
Registered User
 
VinceA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Posts: 1,086
Yes, that's the mailing list I'm referencing.
VinceA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 10:56 PM   #100
megazone
Hardcore TiVo Geek
 
megazone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: .worcester.ma.us
Posts: 3,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeS
The link to http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/05/1...-to-washington/ still doesn't work in your copy of GoHokies post, since you just copied the text (that doesn't copy the actual URL), so you need to edit that URL to make it work.

http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/05/10...-to-washington
After a few days of getting the 404 errors reported to me I just put a redirect in my .htaccess file to make the bad URL work so I wouldn't see the errors in my reports. ;-)

Oh, and this may be of interest.
__________________
-MegaZone, Editor,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
megazone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 11:10 PM   #101
HDTiVo
Not so Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by megazone
Yes, good stuff.

But, its really just NCTA saying hey look Tom Rogers said this and everything is ok because we are working on it. It doesn't add anything, but maybe gives a little more credence to Rogers' comment being realistic.

The OCAP stuff is just cable saying hey look ... everyone is making OCAP devices. Everything is A ok. Everyone is happy. Which isn't so.
HDTiVo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 09:43 AM   #102
JoeSchueller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 278
So honestly, you're a consumer that does most of his/her HD recording/viewing on the big 4, ESPNHD, HBOHD, and kids' channels. You long for the TiVo interface over the SA8300HD box TWC makes you live with. VOD and one-click PPV aren't things you need/desire.

With all due respect to those who plunked down the $800 for a S3, should you be worried about dropping $300 + $300 for 3 years of service on a TiVo HD? If you're a TWC customer, do you forsee HD channels being moved to SDV? Is it reckless to dive in to this right now or is 3 years a reasonable window to see how things play out?
JoeSchueller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 01:13 PM   #103
TexasGrillChef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,763
So let me ask this question then.

If lets say a cable company has 10 channels to offer. but bandwidth for only 5 channels so that all 10 channels are "Switched". So that they only broadcast teh 5 channels that are in "demand" and being watched.

What happens, if lets say I had 10 STB's &/or DVR's and each STB/DVR was swtiched to a different channel. So that all 10 of my units were watching each & everyone of the 10 stations. Or at least wanting too.

First Question:
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? Would 5 of the STB/DVR's not get the channel they wanted?

So now in REAL life... lets say our cable company decided to SDB 6 of the available channels they had. Lets also say I have 6 TVs with STB/DVR's (Currently I have 4, so adding 2 more isn't a far streatch for me)

So If I then had each of my STB's swtiched to all of the 6 channels that are SDV, what would happen? Whats the LEGAL repsonsibility from the cable company to provide me with that signal?

TexasGrillChef
TexasGrillChef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 02:05 PM   #104
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
The problem with your question is that they can fit more than 10, it's more like hundreds. So the odds of them running out of channels is much less. But if they did run out of channels they'd probably stop offering VOD.

It's easier to tell someone they can't buy something right now, than to deny them something their already entitled to.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 05:53 PM   #105
TexasGrillChef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,763
Ok.. so what if I bought 100 STB's or got 100STBS and put one on each channel? Then what?

Or.. I got a colition of everyone in my neighborhood. to get one STB/DVR each (their are 185 of us) and we all put t on 185 different channels that have are all SDV's

What would happen? Would some people not get channels? Would that force them to stop offering some channels?

What I am trying to ask is what happens on the cable side if every single channel they offere is being requested by their "Customers" to view? Especially if they are in the same neighborhood?

Understand my question now? If every single channel that was being SDV was requsted and wanted to be viewed. What would happen? And what would the legal ramifications be from a user/Cable company be?

TexasGrillChef
TexasGrillChef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 06:23 PM   #106
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
I got your point the first time, obviously when you over-allocate you risk running out, but that is why they only plan to use SDV for the un-popular channels.

Also we are talking about more than 100 channels, a 900Mhz system can hold 150, 6Mhz QAM256 channels. Assuming they waste half of them on analog channels that leaves 75. Each channel can carry 38Mbps, so to make it simple lets pretend they're all HD channels which they cap the bandwidth for each channel, so they can fit 3 HD channels, for a total of 225 HD channels. Unfortunately for them, there is overhead and other services so lets just say 200 channels. Now everything isn't HD, so if we wanted to look at just SD channels then they can fit about 9 SD channels per QAM channel or (75*9=675 channels). Keep in mind that this is all per distribution feed.

So in order to avoid what you are talking about, they can limit the amount of over-allocation to the number of VOD channels they have, then when they are at 120% (guess), they will just stop offering VOD or PPV. If the problem persists they will analyze which channels are being watched and split your neighborhood to prevent the issue permanently.

This works for them because they can use the bandwidth that would be otherwise wasted -- 'cause no one was watching one of those great new HD channels that shows almost no HD -- and use it to sell more PPV, etc.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 06:57 PM   #107
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasGrillChef
Ok.. so what if I bought 100 STB's or got 100STBS and put one on each channel? Then what?

Or.. I got a colition of everyone in my neighborhood. to get one STB/DVR each (their are 185 of us) and we all put t on 185 different channels that have are all SDV's

What would happen? Would some people not get channels? Would that force them to stop offering some channels?

What I am trying to ask is what happens on the cable side if every single channel they offere is being requested by their "Customers" to view? Especially if they are in the same neighborhood?

Understand my question now? If every single channel that was being SDV was requsted and wanted to be viewed. What would happen? And what would the legal ramifications be from a user/Cable company be?

TexasGrillChef
You will get a "Channel Not Available" message. The thing is, are all 185 of you in the same node, or same SDV service group? If you are, then you could probably max out the available bandwidth. Bandwidth usage is strictly monitored to maximize the effectiveness of SDV. If the bandwidth usage is constantly over say 70%, they would probably segment your node/service group so that customers wont get this message.

Last edited by cableguy763 : 07-29-2007 at 07:17 PM.
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 07:38 PM   #108
TexasGrillChef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,763
I understand that cable co's use SDV on channels that as a whole are watched infrequently by their subscribers. So it works out for them and makes them look better in being able to offer more channels.

I guess my point as consumers go, if it would make things difficult for them. If there were always at least ONE STB/DVR always watching every single channel they have to offer. Would it cause them problems? What would they do about it? What could they do about it?

Forgetting about consumer cost for a minute. If they did offer 200 channels, some HD, Some SDV and I had 200 STB/DVR's and each on a seperate channel. Would it cause the cable co problems?

TexasGrillChef
TexasGrillChef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 07:52 PM   #109
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
If you had two-hundred boxes, then you would have your own node and sdv service group. The cost of that would be covered quickly by the rental fees for two hundred boxes.
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 08:50 PM   #110
vman41
Omega Consumer
 
vman41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,336
What's the 'lease period' for an SDV channel request? Does the system provide for smoothly migrating a channel to a stream on another frequency? If the point of SDV is bandwidth management, migration capability is desireable so you can defragment your allocation map if needed.
vman41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 09:27 PM   #111
DCIFRTHS
I dumped SDV / cable
 
DCIFRTHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy763
Y ... Bandwidth usage is strictly monitored to maximize the effectiveness of SDV. If the bandwidth usage is constantly over say 70%, they would probably segment your node/service group so that customers wont get this message.
Please define "they". Specifically, what cable companies have this policy in place - to split a node - when "the bandwidth usage is constantly over say 70%".
DCIFRTHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 09:38 PM   #112
TexasGrillChef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy763
If you had two-hundred boxes, then you would have your own node and sdv service group. The cost of that would be covered quickly by the rental fees for two hundred boxes.
so on my own node & SDV service group would still be 200 boxes each on the 200 channels they offer. So wouldn't it still present a problem for that node & SDV service group?

TexasGrillChef
TexasGrillChef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 09:42 PM   #113
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS
Please define "they". Specifically, what cable companies have this policy in place - to split a node - when "the bandwidth usage is constantly over say 70%".
Here is they:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6454447.html

I was guessing at the 70%, but going off of traditional VOD guidelines, this is where you need to start looking at the number of boxes in a service group so that you have adequate bandwidth for all of the boxes.
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 09:50 PM   #114
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasGrillChef
so on my own node & SDV service group would still be 200 boxes each on the 200 channels they offer. So wouldn't it still present a problem for that node & SDV service group?

TexasGrillChef
Still going off of this:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6454447.html

If you had 200 boxes on 200 different channels what matters is how many qam's does the cable co have devoted to sdv. An example of say Chicago, which just did away with analog, they can have a LOT of channels doing SDV. I don't know if Chicago is doing a 750, 900 or 1 gig system, but they can put up to 10 sd channels on a single 6mhz qam. I haven't done the math, but that's a lot of static, non switched channels in itself. Now if they switched all of their channels, the limit of channels is a lot. I'm rambling here, but to answer your question you could cause problems it the cable co didn't allocate enough freq's in their sdv qams.

Last edited by cableguy763 : 07-30-2007 at 02:41 AM.
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 10:30 PM   #115
DCIFRTHS
I dumped SDV / cable
 
DCIFRTHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy763
What article, on that page, are you referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy763
I was guessing at the 70%, but going off of traditional VOD guidelines, this is where you need to start looking at the number of boxes in a service group so that you have adequate bandwidth for all of the boxes.
Ah. I believe that this is where the problem lies. Based on stories I have read, and my own experiences with cable companies, most cable companies do not want to split nodes because it's expensive. For the most part, a customer has to put up with sub par service, for a long time, before a cable company will split a node.

We are dealing with monopolies, and they usually don't move too fast. Of course, if you live in Verizon FIOS country, your experience will be different (better).

I have yet to see a cable company divulge how many people they will service on a node before they split it. Even more scarce is how many people a particular model of node is capable of handling. If you have this data, or know where I can find it, please let me know.

EDIT: I want to add that currently, I am happy with my cable company (Cablevision). They have done an outstanding job of keeping their services at a very respectable level, and their customer service has really improved over the last year and a half.

So far, all of the channels they put on SDV, have been specialty channels. My personal feeling is that this is an acceptable compromise because if I want a specialty channel, then I'll use "special" equipment. When / if they start adding core channels to SDV, then I will consider alternative solutions to cable delivery.

Last edited by DCIFRTHS : 07-29-2007 at 10:42 PM.
DCIFRTHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 10:42 PM   #116
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
I just noticed that the link has kinda disappeared...used to go to the scte conference where the director of digital systems in austin explained how they did sdv...sorry, looking for that article now since I just copied it from the OP
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 10:47 PM   #117
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
[quote=DCIFRTHS]
I have yet to see a cable company divulge how many people they will service on a node before they split it. Even more scarce is how many people a particular model of node is capable of handling. If you have this data, or know where I can find it, please let me know. [quote]


Here is one article:
http://www.cable360.net/ct/strategy/...ses/22263.html
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 10:49 PM   #118
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
[quote=DCIFRTHS]
We are dealing with monopolies, and they usually don't move too fast. Of course, if you live in Verizon FIOS country, your experience will be different (better).

QUOTE]
Now that wouldn't be a monopoly then, would it?
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2007, 10:58 PM   #119
DCIFRTHS
I dumped SDV / cable
 
DCIFRTHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 2,075
[quote=cableguy763]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS
We are dealing with monopolies, and they usually don't move too fast. Of course, if you live in Verizon FIOS country, your experience will be different (better).

QUOTE]
Now that wouldn't be a monopoly then, would it?
That's my point. When there is no competition, the customer is at the mercy of a monopoly. Unfortunately. the majority of the US is serviced by a cable monopoly.
DCIFRTHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2007, 01:37 AM   #120
TexasGrillChef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,763
I am lucky enough to be in an area that doesn't have SDV. Thank god.

I like to cause troubles for cable co's when they do things we don't like.

Since MRV isn't around yet for HD, and since VOD and certain other 2 way services still require their DVR. I have at least one TWC DVR. I regulary return it. In hopes that I will get a newer box when they have one available. They don't like me very well at the local office! LOL

Since I own an Apartment complex with 800 units. I was just wondering about the feasability in causing them issues should they start SDV in my area. I live pretty close to the complex I own.

I am highly opposed to SDV. So it might be worth my investment to cause them issues should that happen. Just a thought.

Always looking for ways to make it more difficult for them when they do things that go agains't our needs.

Thanks for your education. I do appreciate that.

TexasGrillChef
TexasGrillChef is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |