TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-17-2007, 10:57 AM   #61
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah30k
Where did you see this statement that they only want to switch less popular channels?
Here is a link from the first post.
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6454447.html

Quote:
Todd Bowen, director of digital systems for Time Warner Cable’s Austin, Texas, division, delivered a key piece of wisdom for those deploying switched digital video: Be sure to get the right channels in the mix.

“The most important decision you’re going to make is which channels to switch,” Bowen said. “If you don’t pick the right channels, it’s going to bite you.”

That’s because if those channels are too popular -- that is, if they’re being watched by someone virtually all of the time -- those will potentially eat up all of the space set aside for the SDV pool, defeating the whole purpose of the technology.
Obviously anything can change, but lets not pretend they don't have a plan and they aren't going to try it. At this point, there is no reason to be a chicken little.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 11:00 AM   #62
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Medic
How can there be that much planning? It isn't some guy with a slide rule trying to figure out how to get all of the channels to fit, its a computer program that does it all in less then a second.
By planning I mean, to engineer the software that could do it in less than a second. I assume it would take a pretty complex data warehouse application that can accurately and efficiently analyze the real time requirements of hundreds of channels and switch them.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 01:27 PM   #63
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCamp1
I agree. I mean, who is watching PBS? Or that new UPN+WB channel? Or PAX? These would otherwise appear to be prime candidates for SDV, but it's probably less hassle to leave them alone for now. The cable companies don't want to press their luck by entering the gray areas of the law.
I watch PBS. Plus, the FCC may require them to be in an unswitched basic tier along with CW (UPN + WB) and Pax (which is now I or something).

Unrelated to the above: Viewing patterns now change in the summer: major networks largely in reruns, A&E, FX, TNT, TBS, Food Network, etc. showing new shows to take advantage of reruns.
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 01:29 PM   #64
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesH
What does it really cost for them to have a channel be switched? If it is effectively always in use, then when someone tunes to that channel, there will be a request from the set-top box to the SDV controller for its node, who will respond with the existing frequency assignment for that channel. Why bother trying to figure out which channels are in use at what time in which nodes; just switch everything and let the actual usage pattern sort it out.
Without knowing anything about the equipment, its possible that switching or unswitching a particular channel may cost the same. I think it's unlikely, but possible.
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 01:37 PM   #65
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw
If they really wanted to do this, then why would they lie to the media and tell us that they only want to use SDV for less popular channels?
...
So we don't squawk about SDV until its too late.

"why would they lie to the media" - wouldn't be the first time!

How much attention do you think non-cable media or even the FCC and Congress are paying to this? Do you think anyone in the local franchise authority(usually city/county govrenement) is even considering this?
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 02:10 PM   #66
snowbunny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 60
updated list of SDV channels from Time Warner Austin

Please note that many of the upper-tier digital channels are mapped onto their analog counterparts. This results in watching an inferior analog channel and defeats the purpose of having a digital TV.

The rest are truly switched digital channels with no existing analog channel to map onto; you simply cannot receive these channels.

I hope this list is long enough to motivate those of you in Time Warner markets to protest NOW over the increased use of SDV in your Area.

Time Warner Austin-area SDV use:

24 / 270 QVC (digital channel mapped onto analog)
25 / 273 HSN
27 / 215 Oxygen
28 / 213 WE
29 / 217 Soap
30 / 545 E!
33 / 258 Travel
36 / 234 Animal Planet
37 / 160 ABC Family
38 / 170 ION
39 / 180 Hallmark
40 / 520 TVLand
41 / 120 Nickelodeon
42 / 101 Disney East RTE
43 / 110 Cartoon Network
44 / 355 News 8 Doppler Radar
55 / 450 Golf
57 / 540 CourtTV
64 / 555 Turner Classic Movies
70 / 590 CMT
72 / 570 MTV
73 / 585 BET
74 / 219 Style
75 / 623 Telemundo
76 / 622 Galavision
77 TWC77 (the following are all switched video channels with no analog backup)
78 Infor
102 Disney West RTE
111 Boomerang
125 Nick Toons
261 LOGO
274 TV Superstore
275 Shop NBC
277 Revenue Frontier
278 Men's Channel
279 Healthy Living
281 Beauty and Fashion
284 iShop
285 The Mall Channel
286 Resort and Residence
287 PREVU Channel
295 The Word Network
348 News 8 Traffic
358 News 8 Weather
359 / 609 News 8 Weather Spanish
408 News 8 NonStop Sports
527 FoxReality
431 Fox Sports Atlantic
432 Fox Sports Central
433 Fox Sports Pacific
434 Fuel
435 NBA TV
438 CSTV
455 Tennis Channel
460 Speedvision
490 Outdoor Channel
601 CNN Espanol
602 Canal 24
604 DocuTVE
606 CanalSur
609 / 359 News 8 Weather Spanish
611 Toon Disney Spanish
612 Cartoon Spanish
613 Boomerang Spanish
614 Sorpresa
617 Fox Sports SW Espanol
626 TVE International
629 La Familia
630 SiTV
632 Infinito
633 HTV
634 Video Rola
635 Puma
636 MUN 2
637 MTV Tres
640 CineLatino
644 Discovery Espanol
645 HITN
649 EWTN Spanish
708 HBO WEST
709 HBOPLUS WEST
710 HBOSIG WEST
711 HBFAMILY WEST
712 HBCOMEDY WEST
713 HBOZONE WEST
714 HBLATINO WEST
723 CINEMAX WEST
724 MORMAX WEST
725 ACTNMAX WEST
726 THRILMAX WEST
738 SHOW WEST
739 SHO TOO WEST
740 SHOWCASE WEST
741 SHOW EXT WEST
742 BEYOND WEST
743 SHOW NEXT-W
744 WOMEN WEST
745 SHOW FAMILY WEST
748 TMC WEST
749 TMC XTRA WEST
761 Encore West
901 Sport PPV-1
902 Sports PPV-2
903 Sports PPV-3
904 Sports PPV-4
905 Sports PPV-5
906 Sports PPV-6
910 NBA
911 TEAM1
912 TEAM2
913 TEAM3
914 TEAM4
915 TEAM5
916 TEAM6
917 TEAM7
918 TEAM8
919 TEAM9
930 Game 1 (hockey, baseball etc)
931 Game 2
932 Game 3
933 Game 4
934 Game 5
935 Game 6
936 Game 7
937 Game 8
938 Game 9
939 Game 10
940 Playboy Enhanced
941 Ten
942 TenBlox
943 Ten Clips
952 IND 2
1639 Fox Sports HD
1660 A&E HD
1664 Music HD
1675 Cinemax HD
1684 Starz HD
__________________
Two S2s with lifetime subscription
One (new) S3 with VIP lifetime subscription

Last edited by snowbunny : 07-17-2007 at 02:47 PM.
snowbunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 02:20 PM   #67
cwoody222
Registered User
 
cwoody222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 10,999
Wow, that's a lot.

I totally understand the business reasons behind this. Reading the lists and understanding that a lot of the stations using SDV are "niche" stations brings up an interesting point... are minority groups going to resent being "forced" to buy/rent different equipment to have full access to stations that cater to them?

Sure, it'd be a weak argument because there are plenty of "majority interest" stations like NBC TV and Men's Channel (whatever that is) but I can see the argument being made.

Right now I don't know what stations use SDV in my area but with an S3, I'd be upset if I couldn't view LOGO. Of course as a gay man I couldn't really complain if Playboy Enhanced was also on SDV... TWC is screwing both the homos and the heteros!
__________________
--Chris
cwoody222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 02:24 PM   #68
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Wow, that is alot of channels, those are confirmed huh?

I sure hope you filed a complaint with the FCC.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 02:44 PM   #69
jrm01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
So we don't squawk about SDV until its too late.

"why would they lie to the media" - wouldn't be the first time!

How much attention do you think non-cable media or even the FCC and Congress are paying to this? Do you think anyone in the local franchise authority(usually city/county govrenement) is even considering this?
My franchise authority is considering this because I met with the head and brought it to his attention. I then composed a letter for him to write to Comcast with this (and 10 other concerns). We got a non-commital letter back indicating only that they are considering all options and will notify the public when they are going to make any changes. Their franchise agreement is up for renewal next year and I have requested being on the negotiating committee for the authority.
jrm01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 02:45 PM   #70
snowbunny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoody222
Right now I don't know what stations use SDV in my area but with an S3, I'd be upset if I couldn't view LOGO. Of course as a gay man I couldn't really complain if Playboy Enhanced was also on SDV... TWC is screwing both the homos and the heteros!
Well, the Playboy Unenhanced is apparently not on SDV. I suppose it features those who haven't had plastic surgery?

I fully intend to complain to the FCC as well as the City Council. TWC's franchise agreement is a bit more restrictive than most although they have left the 20-odd channels they have to provide to the City and County and other local groups, off the SDV list.
__________________
Two S2s with lifetime subscription
One (new) S3 with VIP lifetime subscription
snowbunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 02:59 PM   #71
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
I updated the first post and while that is certainly alot of channels, the only ones I would even care a little about is.

1639 Fox Sports HD
1660 A&E HD
1664 Music HD

And at this point, there hasn't been anything on any of these that I would watch.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 03:03 PM   #72
mike_camden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm01
My franchise authority is considering this because I met with the head and brought it to his attention. I then composed a letter for him to write to Comcast with this (and 10 other concerns). We got a non-commital letter back indicating only that they are considering all options and will notify the public when they are going to make any changes. Their franchise agreement is up for renewal next year and I have requested being on the negotiating committee for the authority.
Interesting. I believe that your franchise authority is somehow tied into ours (we're in Wheeling, WV, but we're considered part of Comcast Pittsburgh). Im very interested in knowing how this turns out.
mike_camden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 03:19 PM   #73
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw
I updated the first post and while that is certainly alot of channels, the only ones I would even care a little about is.

1639 Fox Sports HD
1660 A&E HD
1664 Music HD

And at this point, there hasn't been anything on any of these that I would watch.
Not sure of your musical tastes, but there might be some decent stuff on Music HD. I'm not much into Country Music, byt the CMT show Crossroads is also shown on MHD. I saw Vince Gill & Alison Krauss, Bruce hornsby & Ricky Scaggs, Lionel Richie & Kenny Rogers. You might some decent stuff in there.
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 03:32 PM   #74
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw
I updated the first post and while that is certainly alot of channels, the only ones I would even care a little about is.

1639 Fox Sports HD
1660 A&E HD
1664 Music HD

And at this point, there hasn't been anything on any of these that I would watch.
The link to http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/05/1...-to-washington/ still doesn't work in your copy of GoHokies post, since you just copied the text (that doesn't copy the actual URL), so you need to edit that URL to make it work.

http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/05/10...-to-washington
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 04:45 PM   #75
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeS
The link to http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/05/1...-to-washington/ still doesn't work in your copy of GoHokies post, since you just copied the text (that doesn't copy the actual URL), so you need to edit that URL to make it work.

http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/05/10...-to-washington
Doh!
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 04:48 PM   #76
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
Not sure of your musical tastes, but there might be some decent stuff on Music HD. I'm not much into Country Music, byt the CMT show Crossroads is also shown on MHD. I saw Vince Gill & Alison Krauss, Bruce hornsby & Ricky Scaggs, Lionel Richie & Kenny Rogers. You might some decent stuff in there.
Actually I have enjoyed a few shows on there, but nothing I'd really miss if I didn't have it.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 05:17 PM   #77
ah30k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw
Here is a link from the first post.
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6454447.html

Obviously anything can change, but lets not pretend they don't have a plan and they aren't going to try it. At this point, there is no reason to be a chicken little.
Not switching too popular is not the same as only switching unpopular. There us a huge middle ground.
ah30k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 12:47 AM   #78
aymanme
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDefGator
You are assuming

1. They know which channels would always be in use by someone in every neighborhood. Keep in mind each neighborhood may have different types of homeowners so the list would vary from node to node.

2. The cost of addiitonal SDV channels is significant.

I believe both of those asumptions are wrong. If they can put in 200 SDV channels for the same price as 175, then it makes more sense to switch everything and let it keep some channels stay locked in if need be. This strategy doesn't use any more bandwidth than not SDV'ing the channels you believe to be always on. And in most cases it will free up more bandwidth.
I concur that they could switch everything, but they still have to support and not alienate the more than 1/2 still analog households. Here many of the analog channels are also switched so there is some additional bandwidth cost to support both.

I never made a statement regarding #1. And in general the CC does know which channels are most popular (otherwise ESPN wouldn't charge the high per-subscriber rates they do).

There is no reason they cannot switch everyhing. However, SDV's value proposition is that a CC can use their existing infrastructure to support the analog units while reducing the BW needed for their digital tier. At the same time, the BW recouped can be used for digital phone, cable modem, etc. For them not having to upgrade the equip in the houses is a big deal.

Of course when everything is digital or a box is required for cable then you can switch everything.
aymanme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 02:10 AM   #79
sfhub
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by aymanme
I concur that they could switch everything, but they still have to support and not alienate the more than 1/2 still analog households. Here many of the analog channels are also switched so there is some additional bandwidth cost to support both.
...
There is no reason they cannot switch everyhing. However, SDV's value proposition is that a CC can use their existing infrastructure to support the analog units while reducing the BW needed for their digital tier. At the same time, the BW recouped can be used for digital phone, cable modem, etc. For them not having to upgrade the equip in the houses is a big deal.
We are talking about 2 different things.

When folks are talking about switching "everything", they are talking about pros and cons of switching every existing "digital" channel.

It is a complete separate discussion whether analog should be scrapped in favor of static or switched digital, which is what you are bringing up. At least that is what I think you are bringing up because that is the only way any of this could possibly alienate an analog user, which is your comment.
sfhub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 07:36 AM   #80
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
We also should pretend like they wont turn off all the analog channels, Comcast has already announced just this in Chicago.

As for switching everything, the big 5 networks won't be switched, the FCC won't even let them encrypt these channels, never the less convert them to SDV. Then there is the assumption that all the STBs in use are even capable of SDV.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 08:54 AM   #81
LoREvanescence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,931
So, if 80 plus percent off all channels go to SDV and are unable to be tuned in via CableCards devices and Tivo where does that leave us? I thought the whole point of the cable card was to make available all channels minus vod / paper view to third party devices with out the need of a cable box? Doesn't this fly in the face of what the FCC ruled?

I just spent a lot of money on a Series 3 and I would not be very happy if in a couple of months I can get only a hand full of networks, and those networks being locals which are available with out a cable card and mapping by just plugging into the cable system.


Where does that leave us Tivo users if were were to be shut out? Is there anything we can do to put up a fight or get a work aroung to get are third party devices compadible?
LoREvanescence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:08 AM   #82
cwoody222
Registered User
 
cwoody222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 10,999
There is no way that in "a couple of months" you will only get a "handful of networks".

Calm down.

Will the S3 work with SDV? No. Does SDV suck? Yes. Will Cable companies continue to explore it? Yes.

Will any of this happen quickly? No.
__________________
--Chris
cwoody222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:08 AM   #83
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Yes, if it happens and if there is no workaround, then yes we are left holding the bag, personally I don't think it'll come to that.

But just to make sure, I filled a complaint with the FCC because I am not able to watch a SDV channel with my Series3. TiVo has also submitted comments to the FCC, and I believe the FCC will require CableLabs to certify two-way devices without the OCAP requirement, but maybe it's just wishful thinking. Either way, in the meantime I will enjoy my Series3.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:27 AM   #84
LoREvanescence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,931
This is rather interesting. I didn't know a CableCard 1.0 was capable of two way communication. If they are, is there anyway tivo could be updated to accept SDV?

Quote:
CableCARD 1.0
The early cable removable security cards were called Point-of-Deployment (POD) modules. CableLabs later coined the term CableCARD™ and began describing the removable security devices as CableCARD security modules. The SCTE standards (ANSI/SCTE-28 and ANSI/SCTE-41) still use the term POD module. These are two names for the same thing.

From the very early specifications and draft standards, the CableCARD module has been a two-way device. That is, it included the functionality to enable two-way communication on the cable plant. This two-way communication is necessary for a variety of advanced cable services including video on demand (VOD), switched digital video (SDV), interactive services and applications.

The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true. CableLabs had always intended to develop the CableCARD module and host receiver standards with two-way capability. However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. While the FCC defined the elements of the one-way cable-ready receiver, CableLabs continued to define specifications for two-way receivers.

When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services.
http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html
LoREvanescence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:36 AM   #85
sfhub
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw
We also should pretend like they wont turn off all the analog channels, Comcast has already announced just this in Chicago.

As for switching everything, the big 5 networks won't be switched, the FCC won't even let them encrypt these channels, never the less convert them to SDV. Then there is the assumption that all the STBs in use are even capable of SDV.
For Comcast, I think it is a safe assumption that limited basic will have analog versions for a longer period of time but extended basic analog could be dropped in favor of the digital versions earlier. This could potentially relieve some pressure to go to SDV by making more bandwidth available to the operator. The FCC did however dangle waivers from the July 1st CC deadline if an operator had gone all digital, so I depending on how the political winds blow, they could be friend or foe for folks who want or expect analog or partial analog to stay longer.

I think it is reasonable to believe the FCC at some point would step in and prevent SDV of the big 5 networks (and the networks themselves could protest via their contract renewal terms)

That is however slightly different than some of the earlier discussion which centered on whether there were absolutely no reasons why a cable company might want to put the locals on SDV (which included more than the big 5) and instead focuses on whether the cable company would be prevented from doing so. Whether you are for or against SDV of all digital channels, I think it is a good idea to understand all the pros and cons from different perspectives and come up with counter arguments to support your position, and that information is hopefully what we would eventually end up with on this thread. It is not about chicken little, at least not from my perspective.

I think it is a safe assumption that any STB that is capable of VOD is capable of SDV via minor firmware update. The mechanisms are very similar.
sfhub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:43 AM   #86
bdraw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 456
Comcast in Chicago is already turning off analog for everything except local broadcast channels.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/07...on-in-chicago/

I would go on to wager that after the analog shutoff these channels will be moved to all digital as well.
__________________
How good can it be, if it isn't HD?
Ben Drawbaugh
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:48 AM   #87
HDTiVo
Not so Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,556
The FCC Chairman's current proposal is for dual must carry, but relief from that for systems that go all digital.

The FCC appears interested in pushing all digital, contemplating future two way CC devices, but talks little about legacy one way CC devices.
HDTiVo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 09:50 AM   #88
sfhub
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoREvanescence
This is rather interesting. I didn't know a CableCard 1.0 was capable of two way communication. If they are, is there anyway tivo could be updated to accept SDV?
There are 2 modes of operation for 2-way CableCARD.

One is OOB mode. In this mode, the 2-way functionality is split between the CableCARD and the Host device. The logical full-duplex modem is a function of the CableCARD (ie it processes, demultiplexes, multiplexes, and distributes all the messages) but it requires a special channel to circuitry on the host that handles RF processing and QPSK modulation/demodulation. If that low-level circuitry does not exist on the Host device, the CableCARD will not be able to provide 2-way services in this mode.

2nd is DSG (Docsis Set-Top Gateway) mode. Here the Host device provides the complete high speed modem implementation and is responsible for the full communications. Any "2-way" information from the CableCARD will travel across the HOST/POD interface.

People have said the TiVo S3 host device does not include the support mechanisms needed on the host device to support either of these methods. People have also theorized that a Docsis modem could added via USB and the TiVo software configured to present it in DSG mode to the CableCARD. People have also theorized that another mode of operation might be created to address SDV where the DSG mechanism is replaced with an IP tunnel through the ethernet port.
sfhub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 12:02 PM   #89
Saxion
Substantive Member
 
Saxion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 485
Yeah, what sfhub said.

The simplest answer is that no it's not possible for the S3 to become a 2-way device; it lacks the hardware and the licensing. There is the possibility of some sort of workaround for SDV only...the NCTA and TiVo have hinted to Congress that they are trying to come up with a fix for this. No guarantees of course.
__________________
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Saxion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 02:09 PM   #90
jlib
Lean Forward
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Carmel Valley, California
Posts: 1,063
Here is how I look at the bandwidth and SDV issue. I pretty much get all the HD content I could want (with the one possible exception of no ABC) from my local Comcast now. Getting rid of analog will allow a 200% increase in available digital bandwidth. If Comcast applied that extra bandwidth to SDV while keeping their current lineup as is they could keep me happy as a cable card user and still offer the dozens of new HD stations they seem to want in the future.

They do not make any money from the analog only customers anyway. The profit they make from me and other full-boat subscribers like me would more than pay for the set top boxes needed for all the little old ladies with old TVs they might be required to support on lifeline service. They should just accelerate the demise of analog and the bandwidth issue becomes less important.
__________________
Series3 Terabyte TiVo

Last edited by jlib : 07-18-2007 at 05:07 PM.
jlib is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |