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Old 06-01-2002, 11:48 AM   #1
gleffler
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Thumbs up Using the 3.0 (Un)support for broadband

IF YOU HAVE A SERIES 2 TiVo, YOU PROBABLY HAVE 4.0. IN THAT CASE, THESE INSTRUCTIONS ARE IRRELEVANT. PLEASE READ THE SERVICE UPDATE GUIDE TO FIND OUT HOW TO SET UP 4.0 UNITS FOR BROADBAND ACCESS.

So, since 3.0 is now going to a large number of people, I thought I'd create this thread to detail how to use the UNsupport for PPP over serial, USB ethernet, and TiVo/TurboNet built into 3.0.

1) PPP over serial
This method involves you connecting a serial cable between your TiVo unit and a computer that has internet connectivity and a free serial port. First, connect the serial cable included with your standalone TiVo (or available for $4.95 from the TiVo Store) to your TiVo. Then, purchase a null modem cable from Radio Shack or CompUSA or somewhere like that, and the appropriate gender changers to put it all together. (Or, if you are handy with a soldering iron, you can make the cable yourself. See the FAQ for older versions which has the pinouts required.

After you have completed the physical connection, you'll need to set up your computer to expect connections. On Windows XP/2000:
Quote:

Open Start>Settings>Control Panel
Open Modems (or "Phone and Modems").
Click the "Modems" tab.
Click "Don't detect my modem..."
Click Next>>
Select "Standard Modem Types" in the manufacturer list, then select "Communications cable between two computers"
Select the port you connected the cable to.
Finish the wizard.
Open Network Connections.
Click "Create a new connection" (or "New connection" or something to that effect).
Click Next.
Click "Set up an Advanced Connection"
Click "Accept Incoming Connections"
Select the Direct cable connection you added earlier.
Select "Do not allow Virtual Private Connections"
Ensure you allow the "Guest" account to connect.
If you are prompted to allow protocols, you only need to allow TCP/IP. This screen may not appear on all systems.
Finish the wizard.
Double click the new "Incoming Connections" widget that was created.
Click "Users"
Click "Always allow directly connected devices..."
Close that dialog box.
Right-click My Computer, move to Properties.
Click the Hardware tab, and open Device Manager.
Navigate to your com port where you have the cable connected, click "Port Settings", then set the settings to: 115,200 bps; 8 data bits, no parity, 1 stop bit, no flow control.
On Windows 9x (95 with Plus!, 98, or ME), you're pretty much screwed, since they don't handle authentication. Sorry. If you can happen to get a 9x system working for this method, please let me know so I can add the information here.
On Linux, use the line in the FAQ for older versions to run pppd right before you initiate a call.

Now, you need to set up the TiVo to make the 'call' over the serial port. Go to Messages & Setup > Recorder & Phone Setup > Phone Connection > Change Dialing Options > Set Dial Prefix; and set the dial prefix to ,#211 -- that's Pause - Enter - 2 - 1 - 1.

Now, test the phone settings, and your TiVo should now be using the serial port exclusively.

2. Using TiVo/Turbo/USB network adapters
Drivers for a lot of USB network adapters are included with 3.0. In addition, drivers for TiVoNet and TurboNet are included, assuming you don't want to run TiVoweb or any other app. This backdoor will only let you use the ethernet for guide updates.

Just connect the TiVo correctly to your network - make sure you are running a DHCP server (most routers include one), and then enter a dialing prefix of ,#401 -- that's Pause - Enter - 4 - 0 - 1.

DO NOT CALL TIVO SUPPORT IF YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE WITH THIS. This is unsupported by TiVo and they will not help you if you have troubles. We, however, will help you as best we can if you post your request in the Underground.

(Also, if anyone has any corrections to any of the info above, please let me know and I'll change them -- I'm especially wondering about the 9x information.)

/gleffler
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Last edited by gleffler : 04-17-2003 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 06-01-2002, 12:55 PM   #2
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Excellent. This needs to be bolted to the top of the Underground.
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Old 06-01-2002, 01:16 PM   #3
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Thumbs up

yep, very helpful. Exactly what's on everyone's mind as the 3.0.x rollout churns along.
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Old 06-01-2002, 01:30 PM   #4
jcthorne
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PPP over serial for Win 2000?

I read Otto's FAQ and it looks simple enough, but referrs only to XP. are the directions the same or similar enough under win 2000? any warnings or advise to set this up under win2000?

Thanks!

James
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Old 06-01-2002, 03:36 PM   #5
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I got 3.0 last night and my link lights are glowing on my $5 ethernet adapter and my hub. ,#401 fails the test call, though, on the "Connecting" stage. I'm using ICS (to share a Starband connection) rather than a router, and previous to this, I haven't used the mini-DHCP-server built into ICS since I've never needed to.

I'm not sure how to tell where it's failing; I can't even see easily how to tell what IP address is allocated (or verify that one is) so I could ping it. I haven't really had time to bear down and try to figure this out yet, but just in case, has anyone else already figured it out, or does anyone have advice on where to proceed?

(BTW, I know a router would be much better. I used to have a nice Linksys router doing this. But then Starband forced me into a "new and improved" modem that's too stupid to be hooked into a router, so it has to be linked to a computer running its software, and then shared from there. Since I'd have to run ICS anyway, the router becomes redundant and only complicates things, so I sold it. Maybe I'll move to somewhere with DSL...)
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Old 06-01-2002, 04:57 PM   #6
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Hunter: odds are that ICS will not work for this purpose. Sorry, ICS is crap. You can check to see if the Tivo got a IP by looking in the Tivo logfiles. Turn on backdoors and use the CECThumbsUp code. /var/log/messages I believe.

If ICS is giving you issues, try another program like WinRoute or something. Lots of people have better luck that way.
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Old 06-01-2002, 05:45 PM   #7
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It would be nice to see a post about how to go about returning tivoweb, ftp, telnet etc after the 3.0 upgrade which uses a strategy that does not require removing the hard disk(s) from the tivo.

If I understand correctly, it should be possible to use tivo's diagnostic mode to switch the boot partition back to the current (non-3.0) setup, mount the 3.0 partition, make the necessary changes, and then switch the boot partition back. Is there anything wrong about this assumption?

I think I can muddle through it trial and error style, but I'm not expert enough in this arena to even begin writing a howto. Even concentrating JUST on getting telnet up again would be helpful. Everything else from there is straightforward, at least to me. Any takers amoung the experts?
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Old 06-01-2002, 06:13 PM   #8
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Both my modems recently were fried (was asleep in chair when lightning hit; ordinarily I "try" to unplug in storms) and so this sounds great. One lifetime SA has 3.0, fed by DTV.

Does the PPP serial method allow you to still use the serial port to control the DSS? I'm sure willing to hook up to PC once a week.

Would be great to have reports of success/ or lack of with 9x.

Many thanks to all who have made such great tools for us unwashed & uneducated.

epsdel

[Edit:] Tried setting up null modem in Win98 SE; .inf file edited as Otto said; apparently same as in XP. I tried setting up a modem using "Serial connection between 2 PCs," selected proper com port and the wizard said "Windows has finished setting up your modem," but when I OKed this, the modem prop box still listed only my physical modem. Tried several times, if someone knows what I'm doing wrong (I'm not asking Otto or anyone with XP of course) I'd be *so* grateful....

If not, I do have a crossover network between PCs (no router) and I wonder if a turbonet card, static IP on TiVo, & crossover connection between TiVO and PC, together with WinGate, would enable a connection--my internet is dial-up.

I should have searched for this answer, prolly, but you can tell I don't know what I'm talking about...

...4 days of guide data left


Last edited by epsilondelta on Today at 06:58 PM

Edit by Otto: Oops, I meant to reply but accidently edited.. here's the original post back.

Last edited by Otto : 06-01-2002 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 06-01-2002, 07:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by epsilondelta
Does the PPP serial method allow you to still use the serial port to control the DSS? I'm sure willing to hook up to PC once a week.
No, it doesn't. You can't use the port for both.
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Old 06-01-2002, 07:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zirak
It would be nice to see a post about how to go about returning tivoweb, ftp, telnet etc after the 3.0 upgrade which uses a strategy that does not require removing the hard disk(s) from the tivo.
Tivoweb doesn't work with 3.0 yet. Wait for a new version.

And if you want to try the root switch method, go for it. Change the root to the other one, add the run_myworld=false (or whatever it is, I forget) to stop the Tivo from trying to load myworld, and you should get a bash prompt, assuming you had that in there before. Of course, if you were setup for serial ppp before then that's going to try to run. Really, how you do it depends on your setup. Really just a heck of a lot easier to pull the drive and add the lines yourself.

There's a reason it's called "hacking" you know.

But if you need some help to get started, you just need to add the telnet startup line back to rc.sysinit. Nothing particularly difficult there.
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Old 06-01-2002, 09:45 PM   #11
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ICS worked fine, it just took a reboot. Then it was able to get an IP and I had to open the firewall port for that IP. In total it took about six hours to get around to working on it, and about two minutes to solve it.
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Old 06-01-2002, 11:37 PM   #12
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PPP won't work like this with Win9x/ME, (nor NT) because those operating systems all NEED authentication (a username and password) sent to them before they will accept an incoming connection. Win2k/XP/Linux can all be set to connect without authentication. Sorry, but that's life.

You can still setup PPP the old way on 3.0, however, with slightly different modifications to some of the internal files. I don't have 3.0, so I can't detail them here.
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Old 06-01-2002, 11:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
make sure you are running a DHCP server (most routers include one),


*sigh*. Real routers (like those made by Cisco) wouldn't bother to include a DHCP server. I think what you are referring to is those little NAT boxes that Linksys sells, and calls a router (when, in fact, they don't do routing in the conventional sense).
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Old 06-01-2002, 11:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saturn49
*sigh*. Real routers (like those made by Cisco) wouldn't bother to include a DHCP server. I think what you are referring to is those little NAT boxes that Linksys sells, and calls a router (when, in fact, they don't do routing in the conventional sense).
Actually, quite a lot of Cisco's routers do have a DHCP server in them now. Not all of them, but the small/medium business ones do have that functionality. Some even have limited NAT capabilities. But for a real largish setup, you generally put that sort of thing in the firewall for simplicity.
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Old 06-02-2002, 12:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Otto


Tivoweb doesn't work with 3.0 yet. Wait for a new version.

And if you want to try the root switch method, go for it. Change the root to the other one, add the run_myworld=false (or whatever it is, I forget) to stop the Tivo from trying to load myworld, and you should get a bash prompt, assuming you had that in there before. Of course, if you were setup for serial ppp before then that's going to try to run. Really, how you do it depends on your setup. Really just a heck of a lot easier to pull the drive and add the lines yourself.

There's a reason it's called "hacking" you know.

But if you need some help to get started, you just need to add the telnet startup line back to rc.sysinit. Nothing particularly difficult there.
FYI for context to this post, Tivonet, not PPP/serial.

Well, as you read into my post, getting ip/telnet back is the main concern. My problem is that I don't have a pee-cee at home, nor any other box that supports IDE. I still live in a SCSI world, and I would be shocked if hooking a tivo drive through an IDE to SCSI adapter would work.

I had a bit of help getting started (i.e. carry the tivo somewhere else), and am trying to be self sufficient!

I *assume* that tivo is providing a full ip stack to support the T*net cards, but I am in no way certain. If that is the case, simply adding a line to rc.sysinit to get telnet back would do the trick. (perhaps also a bit of file copying) Just wanting to make certain.

As for the new tivoweb... I would be interested in understanding what has changed that requires a new version, assuming the ubiquitous NDA allows it. For that matter, I have a couple of suggestions for significant, yet minor, improvements to tivoweb. Who should I send those to?

Thanks for your help.
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Old 06-02-2002, 06:44 AM   #16
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Re: Using the 3.0 (Un)support for broadband

Quote:
Originally posted by gleffler
2. Using TiVo/Turbo/USB network adapters
Drivers for a lot of USB network adapters are included with 3.0. In addition, drivers for TiVoNet and TurboNet are included, assuming you don't want to run TiVoweb or any other app. This backdoor will only let you use the ethernet for guide updates.

Just connect the TiVo correctly to your network - make sure you are running a DHCP server (most routers include one), and then enter a dialing prefix of ,#401 -- that's Pause - Enter - 4 - 0 - 1.
I was with you this far. I have my compatible adapter thanks to TigerDirect.com (brought to my attention by another post on the board). I've add the network cable to my LinkSys 5 port router... all appropriate lights indicate the connection is good to go. Set up my calling info with ,#401 ... It "completes" preparing and dialing... and then I get to connecting "Failed. Service unavailable."

The Test is failed and all is lost. Does this mean I'll have to wait until network support is properly integrated? Any ideas or suggestions, without voiding warranty?
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Old 06-02-2002, 09:59 AM   #17
Doug Schiller
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I was having the same problem.
What is easy to miss is the pause button. I was just putting in #401 and it was failing.

Here is what I did...

Unplugged TiVo.
Hooked up network connection (I have the TigerDirect 3com USB & Linksys Router combo)
Plugged in Tivo.
Changed "Dialing Prefix to ,(pause)#(enter)401.
Then the test call worked perfectly!

I'm loving 3.0

Doug
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Old 06-02-2002, 10:17 AM   #18
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Internet Connection Sharing

Windows 98 and Windows ME Internet connection sharing will not work.
The reason is that they don't use TCP/IP for internet connection sharing.
They require you to install client software which includes a special internet sharing protocol.

Windows 2000 and Windows XP Internet connection sharing will work.
Win2K and XP use TCP/IP routing for ICS and even set up a rudimentary DHCP server.
Win2K and XP should be compatable with TiVo.

Oh, yeah. I haven't seen this mentioned yet.
DON'T RUN THE TURBONET/TIVONET INSTALL SCRIPT!
The drivers are already installed. If you run the script you'll hose everything up.
IF you want to get Telnet running, just add the following line in rc.sysinit

tnlited 23 /bin/bash -login &

Wireless Info:
There is one wireless solution being developed for Series 1 Tivos.
The "TiVo AirNET" is not available yet but can be pre-ordered from 9th Tee.
For Series 2 TiVo's there is no support for USB Wireless Adapters.
This is because there is no interface to configure the wireless specific parameters.
One possible solution is to use a standard USB ethernet adapter and connect a wireless bridge.
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Last edited by hutchca : 06-06-2002 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 06-02-2002, 03:13 PM   #19
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Hi -

I'm having the same (service unavailable) error as Doug describes. My setup is the same as he mentions, only my local CompUSA did not have a 3COM USB-Ethernet adaptor, so I purchase one manufactured by Siemens. They also had USB-Ethernet adaptors available from Belkin, HP, LinkSys and others.

I'm certain the wire, adaptor and hub function correctly.

Any ideas?

Best,

Lee
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Old 06-02-2002, 03:16 PM   #20
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leebo: Describe your setup in detail. There's a lot of things that can go wrong with routing, and without detailed info about how you're hooked to what, nobody can help you.
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Old 06-02-2002, 03:40 PM   #21
Leon WIlkinson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Schiller
I was having the same problem.
What is easy to miss is the pause button. I was just putting in #401 and it was failing.

Here is what I did...

Unplugged TiVo.
Hooked up network connection (I have the TigerDirect 3com USB & Linksys Router combo)
Plugged in Tivo.
Changed "Dialing Prefix to ,(pause)#(enter)401.
Then the test call worked perfectly!

I'm loving 3.0

Doug
I had to move my turbonet card to the other TiVo yesterday. I had put in the ,#401 in the Call Waiting. It took me 10 minutes to figure that out.
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Old 06-02-2002, 04:14 PM   #22
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BTW, does anyone want to host that short HowTO at http://users.arczip.com/otto/tivo3xp/ on their server? I'm going to cancel that account soon and thus lose that webspace. If anyone wants it, make a mirror. It's free game.
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Old 06-02-2002, 04:32 PM   #23
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Hi Otto -

Sure, no problem.

Here's a snapshot (in order) from the Tivo2 to the wall:

Tivo2 OS: 3.0.S7-01-2-1F0
Tivo2, Upper USB port
Siemens USB 10/100 Ethernet Adaptor: SS1001
Cat5 Cable
LinkSys EtherFast Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41 (in DHCP Mode)
Cat5 Cable
3COM Home Cable Modem
Coax to wall

I took the steps descibed by Doug:

Unplugged TiVo.
Hooked up network connection
Plugged in Tivo.
Changed "Dialing Prefix" to read: ,#401

The test yielded a connection error on step 3 of the test: Failed. Service unavailable.

I'm just suspecting that the Siemens device is not supported or may be non-functional. Is there a list of supported devices?

Best,

Lee
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Old 06-02-2002, 04:41 PM   #24
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Exclamation

I just got PPP-over-serial working on my Windows XP machine for the very first time by following Otto's excellent guide. (Thanks, Otto!) I would just like to add that it took a little tweaking to get things working properly with my Linksys BEFSR41 router:

First, I had to allow VPN connections. Otto's guide states that "it's not needed for this connection", but I couldn't establish a connection without enabling it.

Second, I had to go into my router's setup and enable the "SPI" (Stateful Packet Inspection) option. For those who have the same router as me, this option is located on the Filters page in the Advanced section. I'm not quite sure why SPI needs to be enabled, but it does -- at least with my setup.

I did some quick checking on Usenet, and some people are claiming that enabling SPI on the Linksys router disables port forwarding. If this is true, then I've got a problem, because I make extensive use of port forwarding. Can anyone shed any light on this?
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Old 06-02-2002, 09:10 PM   #25
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Spire: I did have it working thru my laptop and my Linksys router once, and I certainly never enabled SPI.

Stateful packet inspection basically means that the router will check each and every incoming packet to see if it matches an existing connection. If it doesn't, the packet is dropped. This does, in effect, cancel any port-forwarding. If you are not forwarding any ports (including port triggering), enabling this feature will add more security to your router.

So I don't see how it would make any difference to your Tivo's connection.

Last edited by Otto : 06-03-2002 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 06-02-2002, 09:11 PM   #26
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leebo: Might want to check the Tivo's log files and see if it's recognizing the dongle on bootup. I'd bet that the Siemen's one won't work.
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Old 06-02-2002, 09:41 PM   #27
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Mirror...

Otto,

Just wget-ed all of the files. They are showing up as: http://www.lan.com/otto/tivo3xp/

Let me know if there is anything else you might need.

-Dennis

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Old 06-03-2002, 06:41 AM   #28
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Thanks, Otto.

Here's what I found.

/var/log/kernal/

The device is recognized as the Speedstream USB 10/100 Ethernet, but is not claimed by any active driver. The pegasus driver is loaded but reports that the link is NOT established - check cable. [I know the cable is good - it works with my laptop just fine].

This is followed by a message about going into Rx mode and several other messages about not starting tests or other executables.

So - it seems to recognize the Siemens device, but something is causing an error that is preventing it from establishing the link. For grins I tried the device in my laptop (W2K) and could not get the device to start properly.

I'll take the Siemens device back to CompUSA and exchange it for something different. Other than the 3COM device, are there any other models that are known to function correctly?

Best,

Lee
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Old 06-03-2002, 07:51 AM   #29
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I couldn't get my Siemens adapter to work either. I bought a 3COM adapter from TigerDirect for about $4.99 plus shipping (about $13 total).
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Old 06-03-2002, 10:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Schiller
I was having the same problem.
What is easy to miss is the pause button. I was just putting in #401 and it was failing.

Here is what I did...

Unplugged TiVo.
Hooked up network connection (I have the TigerDirect 3com USB & Linksys Router combo)
Plugged in Tivo.
Changed "Dialing Prefix to ,(pause)#(enter)401.
Then the test call worked perfectly!

I'm loving 3.0

Doug
Well I'm still trying off and on, I've gotten the , in there (pause) but still no dice. Should I try to empty out my current local number? Somethings got to be going well as the light is on for the connection on both the USB adapter and the LinkSys router. I'll try unplugging the Tivo to see if it has any effect...

Running with
Tivo Series 2 Version 3.something something

PC 2.4 Ghz
Windows XP
Intel Pro 10/100 network card

LinkSys 5 port router


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