[FCC Filings] Mot. stops producing S-Cards, M-Cards deployed (to an S3 user at that)

[dt_dc]

Some more insteresting FCC filings ...

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519124426

According to the above, Motorola has stopped production of the (single stream) S-Cards and is now only delivering multistream (M-Cards). RCN's first shipment of M-Cards was recieved on April 9th. And ... they're even going to be delivering two of them to an S3 user.

Oh, the above is a response to the following:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519110676

[MichaelK]

2 to 1 user.

So still running in S-card 'fallback' mode.

What I want to see is someone getting one of the them and using BOTH tuners.

any more scuttlebutt about cablecards approving the 'b' hardware for M-cards?

[MickeS]

What does this mean? That a Series 3 user only need one card from the cable company?

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by MickeS

What does this mean? That a Series 3 user only need one card from the cable company?

Not sure of your questions- here's my first answer:



there are S- cards (single stream) and M-cards (multistream)

If you want to use both tuners in the S3 you need to S-cards, one for each tuner.

The M-card can decode several streams ( dt_dc can say for sure but i think it's up to 6 or maybe 8?). So if you can get an M-card and have it work in M-mode then you would only need 1 card for the S3 to use it's 2 tuners.

The holdup is that while Tivo included the hardware to use an M-card, Cablelabs had no approval method in place untill the end of last year (for unidirectional devices like the tivo). So Tivo was/is not permitted to enable their software to work in M-card mode. They created the standard at the end of last year and Tivo was in the first "wave" of testing to get approved for m-card use. Recently the tivo popped up on the list of cablelabs approved devices a SECOND time- earlier dt_dc thought perhaps that meant they were m-card approved by CL.

Maybe they have the software out in a beta test or something?


After reading again maybe you are asking if the guy used a single card in M0-card mode? Well it says they gave him 2 cards for his one S3 so I assume he needs them both (if an M-card is put into a device that is only enabled for s-cards it will fall back to s-card emulating mode)

[Saxion]

I guess when a Harvard Professor of Business Administration (and Dean and Chair of the Executive Education Department) complains, people take notice! Way to go David Yoffie...this is awesome.

[dt_dc]

Originally Posted by Saxion

I guess when a Harvard Professor of Business Administration (and Dean and Chair of the Executive Education Department) complains, people take notice!

Or perhaps some people are just pretty good at effectively complaining.

DC lawyers (with some high profile media / trademark experience) for example:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519124319

Originally Posted by Saxion

Way to go David Yoffie...this is awesome.

Buy one or two of his books. Seriously, some very good (relevant) reads.

[dt_dc]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

2 to 1 user.

So still running in S-card 'fallback' mode.

What I want to see is someone getting one of the them and using BOTH tuners.

any more scuttlebutt about cablecards approving the 'b' hardware for M-cards?

Well the customer requested two CableCards ... and was upset at not getting them ... Tivo's web site and installation instructions say two cards are required ... it would be rather rude to show up with one and say "gee, we think this should work".

Yes ... it will be good to see an M-Card running in multi-stream mode. Till then ...

The most meaningful thing in the above is that Motorola has stopped manufacturing S-Cards and is now only delivering M-Cards. Not surprising. Many have noted that's what would probably happen when / if multistream actually started getting closer to becoming a reality ...

Like I said before, I'm pretty certain Tivo has got M-UDCP verification for the S3 ... and will believe so until I see something definitive (affirmative or contrary) from Tivo or CableLabs.

But, Tivo getting verification (or not) is just that ... nothing more, nothing less. M-Cards showing up in the wild is just that ... nothing more, nothing less.

Perhaps a software update is neccesary from Tivo.

Perhaps something in the cable company's head-end (DAC / BackOffice / whatever) needs an update.

Perhaps some field testing is needed.

Obviously something isn't all roses:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=348832

Like you noted here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...11#post5078211

Tivo isn't likely to want hand out installation instructions to the effect that "A single card is supported IF your cable company has the new M-Card AND has updated to DAC x.xx AND has downloaded the latest keys from Motorola AND isn't running (whatever) that potentially causes conflicts AND ..."

So ...

Originally Posted by MickeS

What does this mean? That a Series 3 user only need one card from the cable company?

Eventually, yes, an S3 should only need a single card. However, untill you hear that's actually happening ... or something from Tivo ... or something from cable ... or whatever ...

It just means that's a step closer and a bit more likely to happen a little bit sooner. Thazzit.

[dt_dc]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

Well it says they gave him 2 cards for his one S3

Actually, it says that they have two cards available and ready to be delivered. There's some personal info in there that I don't think I'd want out and publically available myself and I'd actually be a little bit upset at RCN ... but ... bottom line, cards haven't been delivered or installed yet.

[dt_dc]

Originally Posted by Saxion

I guess when a Harvard Professor of Business Administration (and Dean and Chair of the Executive Education Department) complains, people take notice!

Don't forget ... Intel board member / non-employee director:
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/...d_dbyoffie.htm

Ya know ... John Q. Public in the flesh.

[Justin Thyme]

I fail to see what is so interesting about this. Of course Moto is going to build tons of MCards since nearly all of them are going into Moto boxes that must be ready in time for the July 2007 deadline when they have to be purchased instead of integrated boxes. Of course Moto will move production to a single card that can act in SCard mode for the very modest number of existing CC devices.

The important question is whether the CableCo's servers are required to support MCards in third party boxes.

Despite Tivo's request back in fall 2006, the FCC has established no deadline when Cable Companies have to support MCards in third party devices. This means the cableco could jury rig their systems to work with only the exact Moto Boxes they buy using MCards, but refuse to implement generalized software that would support any third party device with an MCard.

Absent an FCC directive, guess which choice the local operations guys are going to make.

You are going to see a lot of S3's with dual MCards operating in SCard mode until the FCC acts. Ditto for Media Center PCs

[WAcableguy]

These guys sound like a couple of cheap jerks to me. But I am sure that they are the type to write their congressmen whenever they want to complain about some stupid BS they feel they got cheated out of. And to be cheap! Because they are cheap. And jerks!

[smark]

What?

[HDTiVo]

What's this about S&M Cards?

[lessd]

For TiVo Series 3 what advantage would I have in using one M type Cable Card over two normal Cable Cards as Comcast charges per outlet and the Series 3 is one outlet in Comcast land (in CT anyways) so I am charged $2.75/per month once for the two Cable Cards in my Series 3.

[sfhub]

If you area charges you per TiVo then there is no price advantage. If they charge you per card, there could be an advantage.

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally Posted by HDTiVo

What's this about S&M Cards?

[Justin Thyme]

MCards (if supported in a TIvo by my local cableco) would save me $140 per year in the mentioned double charging for two cards. My provider charges the other card as if it is in another machine, so I get duplicate charges for access to digital tier, and a duplicate charge for High definition.

econdly, Mcards could save the Cableco's a lot of money in installation support costs because MCards should be much simpler and less error prone.

[MickeS]

Originally Posted by WAcableguy

These guys sound like a couple of cheap jerks to me. But I am sure that they are the type to write their congressmen whenever they want to complain about some stupid BS they feel they got cheated out of. And to be cheap! Because they are cheap. And jerks!

Yes! I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally Posted by Justin Thyme

MCards (if supported in a TIvo by my local cableco) would save me $140 per year in the mentioned double charging for two cards. My provider charges the other card as if it is in another machine, so I get duplicate charges for access to digital tier, and a duplicate charge for High definition.

econdly, Mcards could save the Cableco's a lot of money in installation support costs because MCards should be much simpler and less error prone.

Wow! That seems unfair. Who is your cable provider?

[Justin Thyme]

Time Warner.

The State regulators are still thinking about it. It's been 4 months- oops nearly 5 now since I wrote them.

Others have gone the FCC route. They likewise have heard nothing, and I expect they won't given the current administration there.

Now, if you happen to be dean of the Havard business school, I suppose your complaint cannot be ignored.

[stevereis]

Originally Posted by Justin Thyme

MCards (if supported in a TIvo by my local cableco) would save me $140 per year in the mentioned double charging for two cards. My provider charges the other card as if it is in another machine, so I get duplicate charges for access to digital tier, and a duplicate charge for High definition.

That sucks, where are you?

I am in the DFW area and I got charged an outlet fee but no card fee when I got my first card for my TV (that was with Comcast), even though I argued it was not really an additional outlet.
However, when I got the S3, TWC had taken over and I did not pay any more because it was hooked to the same TV - maybe I got lucky there.
When I returned the HD box I had been leasing a month later, the outlet fee disappeared.
Since then TWC has eliminated outlet fees and started charging for CableCards ($2.95 each). I ended up getting on a bundle plan that actually reduced my overall bill even though the CC charges added ~$9/mo to my total.
So, going to one M-card would save me a little.

[sommerfeld]

Originally Posted by lessd

For TiVo Series 3 what advantage would I have in using one M type Cable Card over two normal Cable Cards?

In the long run, I'd expect improved reliability, primarily from there being less for the cableco to screw up in its provisioning systems.

[vman41]

Originally Posted by HDTiVo

What's this about S&M Cards?

Heavy on M, at this point.

[QZ1]

What I don't understand is why it isn't a slam dunk case against these 'second CC A/O fees', seeing as both CCs are paired with one box in such a way that one (or both) CC(s) can't be moved to another box or TV.

[sfhub]

There is no such thing as slam dunk when CSRs and their managers don't listen to logic or their published rate guides. I've had CSRs at the local office completely disregard the rate sheet and say I don't care what that says, I've been here X years and that is the way it has always been.

The CSRs have little cheat sheets for various common scenarios of S3 users. If you don't show up on their cheat sheet, they get confused. Sometimes if the billing system throws up an error the CSRs start rationalizing why it would do that, then make up rules on the fly to rationalize why the billing system would do that. Never mind those new rules contradict their printed rules. They should really be questioning why the billing system was coded in error but many treat the billing system as god, so it can't be wrong.

One just needs to escalate, call back, go sideways, etc. until you find someone who will listen and has the ability to make the proper changes. Sometimes it might require a billing system reprogramming or recoding how your devices were added depending on your area.

For some it is an easy process, for others it is very painful.

[WAcableguy]

"Cable cards suck! They really really suck!" Oh and BTW each card requires a separate tuner and thus enough signal to run it. I.E. separate outlet charges! Just as you would be charged for 2 outlets even if the splitter is inside the house (or inside the TiVo) and running off of 1 "cable outlet". It's still 2 outlets! Cable COs are required to provide a certain level of signal to each a/o by the FCC and in many cases the splitters force the requirement of in-home amplification. Amplifier charge!

[cableguy763]

[quote=WAcableguy]"Cable cards suck! They really really suck!" Oh and BTW each card requires a separate tuner and thus enough signal to run it.

not with M cards. one card can do multiple streams.

[Arcady]

I have just received two new M cards. The S3 did not know what to do with one, other than warn me about only having one active tuner. We had to install two cards to get dual tuners.

[smark]

That's probably because the S3 hasn't been updated yet to take advantage of the M card.

[rdrrepair]

Originally Posted by smark

That's probably because the S3 hasn't been updated yet to take advantage of the M card.

Can't wait for that nightmare.