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Old 03-19-2007, 11:35 AM   #361
bilbo
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Wink Tivo is a dude!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmelman
I called TiVo. His view was that...
I always knew people referred to him as the Tivo guy, but thanks for clearing that up!
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Old 03-19-2007, 03:19 PM   #362
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For those of you that are installing your own splitters in the line you might want to check with Verizon to make sure you're using the right kind, especially if you have any standard boxes that require two-way communication, such as VOD. I had a Monster Cable wideband splitter setup prior to the installers' arrival and they looked at it and said it wouldn't work. I belive the one I had only had one leg that would pass power and the correct type requires that all legs are power pass, but I'm not 100% sure. It turned out that I had a four-way splitter and they needed five outputs so they installed their own. Apparently the coax feed from the ONT goes to the splitter and then out to the wireless router.

This surprised me since Comcast split out their cable modem signal at the entrance to the house and then ran the 2nd line to the various other TV connections throughout the house using additional splitters. I dropped Comcast cable years ago after DTV started providing my locals so I just had the single cable line going straight to the cable modem.
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:32 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipit
Greeble:

Have you found a solution? I seems I have the exact same problem on the exact same channels (in Richmond, VA). Like you, this is also a recent development, as I didn't have the problem before.
No, still having the same problem with the same 3 channels. I had a truck roll schedualed but had to cancel it because I couldn't be home then. I'm going to try to scheduale another truck on Friday.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:40 AM   #364
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Last might, my pixelation problem with UHD, DHD and WealthTV disappeared. At least for the time being, everything appears to be performing great (as it was before about a month ago). Hope this is a permanent fix.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:35 PM   #365
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DHD has been bad on my S3 lately as well. Unwatchable. I'll try a test and record some shows on my Comcast DVR too and make sure it's an S3 issue and not a problem with Comcast. I'll report back later... First major problem I've had with dropouts on the S3 and also just started about a week ago. Makes me wonder if it's not a Comcast problem... Seems odd all our boxes are only messing up on the same channels...
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:14 PM   #366
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I have an S3 with VZ cable cards.

I was watching the spring training baseball game on ESPN-HD and it started pixelizing very badly. I went to the diagnositics screen and the signal was jumping between 81 and 89, losing signal lock each time there was a change in the reading, which must have been pixelizing. I have another HD set with a Moto 6200 tuner, and turned on that set. Naturally, the picture was fine, while the S3 w/cable continued to pixelize.

Now where do I begin? Is this a VZ problem with the cable card or a Tivo issue? Any comments would be appreciated, particularly by anyone who has had success identifying the cause.
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Old 04-01-2007, 03:46 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene
Yes, I have had consistent pixelation on local HD via Fios - channels 801 - 809. The non-locals used to begin with 810 and above before the channel line up change on 3/6, but I don't remember where they begin now, but non-locals for me have been pretty consistently clear. We watch CNN 519 a lot and there are times when all of the CNNs pixelate as well.
The pixelation (and corresponding audio drop out) comes unexpectantly after many days of working perfectly. It clears up, usually, several days later. Because I cannot find rhyme, reason or pattern, I no longer record in HD (I cannot tell you how many House, 24, American Idol, NCIS and the Unit I have had to delete).

Local HD OTA is obviously not Fios, so while I appreciate your comments that you are not seeing pixelation, it is really irrelevant to a discussion that HD locals via Fios pixelates. If you are watching OTA, you are not watching through Fios.
I can report that Montgomery County, MD seems to have the same local HD pixelation problems (801-809) as the folks down in Texas. Verizon fiber support seems at a loss so if anyone has found the solution to this problem, please post. Otherwise, I am afraid I'm back to Comcast.
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Old 04-04-2007, 01:49 AM   #368
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4 visits from Vzn, still no working S3+CC

I see references in this thread to "the good error message," and other vague hints to assist troubleshooting a bad install; I can't find anything stating what "the good error message" is, or what indicators I should be looking for (to point out to the Vzn guy) to show that we have a problem more specific than "it doesn't work".

Can anyone post some troubleshooting info, please? I'm almost 2 weeks down!

Thanks!
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:46 PM   #369
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VZ tech spent four hours at my home today checking signal quality. Every channel is within spec, yet piixelization continues on ESPN, ESPNHD, NFLHD, HDNet and HDNet Movies. If you look at the diagnostics screen you can see the signal jumping all over the place. And those channels happen to be on 717mhz, 723mhz and 735mhz. I even got Tivo support to talk with the VZ guy. Tivo suggested an amp to boost the signals on those channels, but that didn't help.

I'm almost at the point of giving up on Tivo S3/VZ CC compatability. I think the VZ tech went above and beyond. I saw the signal quality readings on his eqt. And this is my second Tivo box, as the first one was replaced by Tivo when I started reporting the problems. And VZ, this AM also changed out the cable cards, to no avail.
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:03 AM   #370
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Do you have an OTA antenna connected too? Try a terminator on the antenna input on the S3?
I've seen some comments in other threads that local broadcasts can interfere with some channels on the cable at the same frequency.
(Anybody know the frequency ranges of UHF OTA broadcasts, by channel?)

UPDATE: Hmm, according to http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/APPENDIX.pdf, those frequencies are UHF channels 55, 56, 58.
Any local stations broadcasting on those? (Keep in mind that channel frequency assignments don't match channel numbers anymore.)

Last edited by jtkohl : 04-17-2007 at 07:07 AM. Reason: update UHF freqs
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:13 AM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtkohl
Do you have an OTA antenna connected too? Try a terminator on the antenna input on the S3?
I've seen some comments in other threads that local broadcasts can interfere with some channels on the cable at the same frequency.
(Anybody know the frequency ranges of UHF OTA broadcasts, by channel?)

UPDATE: Hmm, according to http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/APPENDIX.pdf, those frequencies are UHF channels 55, 56, 58.
Any local stations broadcasting on those? (Keep in mind that channel frequency assignments don't match channel numbers anymore.)
In my case, I have local digital channels close to those listed above. I believe I have one at 57 and another at 59. And I do have an ASTC antenna attached.

So are you suggesting that I disconnect the OTA antenna and terminating that connection? Certainly, anything is worth a try.
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Old 05-19-2007, 02:21 PM   #372
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Why use an S3 with FIOS?

Like others, I have complained and complained to Directv about their lousy 'HD Lite' to no avail.

Until recently, I did not have a choice but no longer:
Verizon will be at my house on Tuesday, May 22 to install their FIOS TV and then I ditch Directv after being with them for nearly 10 years.

I have a modified HR 10-250 HDTIVO that is on my home network which allows me to do some really useful things with it but after May 22, it will lose its usefullness.

Verizon will be installing their HD DVR which I assume will be the Motorola 6416 and I am trying to figure out why many folks with FIOS get the Series 3 instead of using the Moto box.

If it makes sense, I will get a Series 3 for my FIOS service but when I compare the Moto box to the Series 3, it does NOT make sense to get an S3.

What am I missing here:

1) I can archive via Firewire from the Motorola Box but not with the S3
2) The Moto box costs $13 per month versus $17 for the S3
3) I would have to get 2 cablecards at $6 ($4 card 1+ $2 card 2) per month to be able to use the S3 with FIOS
4) I would have to buy the S3 for a decent chunk of change whereas the Moto box is covered under #2
5) I lose some FIOS features if I use a Series 3 box instead of the Moto box.
6) I don't have to buy an extended warranty because the Moto box is a rental
7) The S3 has a bigger disk and is expandable but since I can use the Firewire to offload shows (like a I do today over Ethernet with my HR 10-250) there is no need to get a bigger disk. That is the reason why I have kept my Hr10-250 with it's standard 250gb DISK

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 05-19-2007, 04:15 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Q
I am trying to figure out why many folks with FIOS get the Series 3 instead of using the Moto box.
Well, the general opinion is that it's better. I can't attest to that from my own experience, but I do have a Fios SD STB, which I understand is much the same (apart from the DVR features). Using it makes me glad I have a Tivo S3 for my main set.

My reasons were a) I'd heard bad things about the Fios DVR, and b) I wanted to make things easy for other household members who were used to the DirecTV Tivos. (Changing services is pain enough!)

Quote:
1) I can archive via Firewire from the Motorola Box but not with the S3
Yes, and that's a major point. I think most of us assumed that we'd have TivoToGo sooner rather than later.

Quote:
2) The Moto box costs $13 per month versus $17 for the S3
Dunno where you get $17. I pre-paid three years at $8.31 per month. Of course, that doesn't include CableCard fees, nor the upfront price. On the third hand, Fios DVRs are going up to $16.

Quote:
5) I lose some FIOS features if I use a Series 3 box instead of the Moto box.
On the other hand, you lose some Tivo features if you use the Moto box instead of a Series 3.

Quote:
6) I don't have to buy an extended warranty because the Moto box is a rental
I didn't have to buy an extended warranty, either.

I notice that Verizon is charging $550 for "non-returned or damaged" DVRs.
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Old 05-19-2007, 05:16 PM   #374
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Thanks for the reply.
The dollar figures are simply rounded off figures I found via a quick search on some websites and not based on a multi year commitment.
I just used these for rough comparisons.

I am early in my research on the best way to have a DVR for the new TV service so I obviously have more to learn about the Series 3 .

Can you clarify something from your reply:
You are using Verizon's SD DVR,have a Series 3 but are NOT using the Series 3 for your Verizon TV service. Correct?

Why is that?

I do need to look into 'tivotogo' as I am not familiar with that.
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Old 05-19-2007, 06:02 PM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Q
Verizon will be installing their HD DVR which I assume will be the Motorola 6416 and I am trying to figure out why many folks with FIOS get the Series 3 instead of using the Moto box.
The Motorola DVR used by FiOS has greatly improved in stability over the past 12 months. It is no longer "buggy" as it was a year ago, but it still lacks in usability compared to the Series3. My main issue with the FiOS DVR is the storage capacity.

I would be satisfied with the Motorola DVR if it weren't for its 160Gb capacity, with no expansion in sight. In contrast, the Series3 has 250Gb and you can easily add a 750Gb eSATA drive for a little over $200.

Remember that FiOS doesn't re-compress and degrade the quality of its HDTV, and as a result, one-hour of HDTV on FiOS often requires significantly more space than it does on the DirecTV DVR. It's not uncommon for a single, one-hour high-definition recording to consume 5-6% of capacity on the FiOS DVR. Capacity on the FiOS DVR will range from 16-24 hours of HDTV depending on what channels you record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Q
7) The S3 has a bigger disk and is expandable but since I can use the Firewire to offload shows (like a I do today over Ethernet with my HR 10-250) there is no need to get a bigger disk. That is the reason why I have kept my Hr10-250 with it's standard 250gb DISK
You can archive recordings from the local networks to a PC using Firewire, as they are marked "copy freely," but not much else. The cable channels on FiOS are flagged as 5C "copy one generation" which means you can't record them using Firewire unless you have an authorized 5C device, like a JVC HDTV D-VHS recorder. PCs are not authorized 5C devices. The Tivo Series3 has no problem recording any FiOS channels.

As noted above, FiOS is increasing the cost of their Motorola DVR from $12.99 to $15.99/mo for customers that add it after July 13. If you add the DVR before July 13, you are "grandfathered" at the $12.99/mo price.

Last edited by bkdtv : 05-19-2007 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 05-19-2007, 11:42 PM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Q
Can you clarify something from your reply:
You are using Verizon's SD DVR, have a Series 3 but are NOT using the Series 3 for your Verizon TV service. Correct?
Not at all. I'm using Verizon's SD STB (NOT DVR) for one TV. (Verizon doesn't offer an SD DVR, BTW; all their DVRs are HD.) It's not a DVR, but operates the same as the DVR otherwise, or so I understand -- same menus, same guide, etc. And yes, I'm also using my Series 3's with Fios, on other TVs.
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:15 AM   #377
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I have had both boxes. I found that the SD using the moto box on an HD TV was unwatchable. I think HD differences were negligible.
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:19 AM   #378
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Does the Verizon DVR allow you to watch one program and record another at the same time? How does it compare to the Tivo series 2 I have now. Just wondering if it is worth the cost to upgrade to the series 3 or just get verizons unit?
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:19 PM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy86
Does the Verizon DVR allow you to watch one program and record another at the same time?
Yes, it does. The FiOS DVR will also let you simultaneously record two different HD or SD channels while you watch a third, pre-recorded program.

The FiOS DVR offers the same basic functionality as the Tivo Series3, but with an an inferior interface and some missing features (no wishlists, no dual buffered tuners, etc). Of course, it also has 35% less storage capacity and doesn't support eSATA hard drives for expansion.
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:25 PM   #380
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the storage feature is what I will miss the most but I heard you can back up the recordings , is that correct? If so how do you back up a program
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Old 05-21-2007, 01:01 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Ziggy86
the storage feature is what I will miss the most but I heard you can back up the recordings , is that correct? If so how do you back up a program
You can save recordings from the locals to a PC for viewing (you can't copy them back to the Tivo). It's somewhat complicated.

You connect the FiOS Motorola DVR to a PC via Firewire then use a program like CAP DVHS to capture the recording in realtime while it plays. Once again, this only works on local channels.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:37 PM   #382
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Have FIOS, hate the Motto DVR but wont be switching

Hey everyone,

I actually WAS considering switching from the Motto DVR to the S3 but have decided to pass after reading all this. I have had FIOS for over 6 months now and to get the Motto DVR to work at my place I had 7 different service guys at the house and they installed 2 different fiber lines, and 3 different DVR's to the house. The signal quality is still not where it should be, but I am getting all the channels with little problems. I really am afraid that the cablecard/S3 interaction would get me NO HD channels and I don't want to take another week off of work as Verizon tries to suss it all out! My wife hates FIOS TV and wishes I would have never switched from DTV. We had DTV for over 12 years with 3 modded S2 tivos( anyone interested in buying them?) I am just not really willing to invest a bunch of time and $ for the off chance the S3 will work for us. And furthermore, I don't really want another Verizon Tech in my house! I am going to wait until all this settles down before I make any changes. Who knows, maybe Verizon will strike a deal with Tivo like DTV and they will make a special unit just for them.

Just for everyone’s information, here is what I like and dislike about the Motto DVR.

Motto Likes:

VOD
PPV
Wigets are cool, although not quite useful yet.
Cost ($600 for the s3 + monthly $9 = $26/month verses $16/month motto)

Dislike:

-The DVR functionality sucks (TIVO is 10000x better)
-You cant use the DVR(play a recorded show) if the Fios service is down!
-Stop/jump/fast forward/rewind stop working occasionally.
-The frickin 30 jump cues up, so if the dvr does not respond and you hit the button repeatedly the darn thing catches up fast forwarding beyond where you want to be.
-Misses shows my Tivo used to catch, like a season pass to Survivor will also record the last reunion show, the Motto did not!
-Conflict resolution does not work right if you have 2 shows recording.
-You can’t record 2 shows and watch VOD - this should work like a recorded show.
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:42 PM   #383
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Recording from the Motorola 6416

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
You can save recordings from the locals to a PC for viewing (you can't copy them back to the Tivo). It's somewhat complicated.

You connect the FiOS Motorola DVR to a PC via Firewire then use a program like CAP DVHS to capture the recording in realtime while it plays. Once again, this only works on local channels.
I have been with Fios for only 2 weeks now but I am home recovering from surgery so I have a lot of time on my hands to mess wih this.

Since the Verizon FIOS signal is so much LESS compressed than what I was used to with Directv and my HDTIVO, that 160 Gbyte disk fills up really fast so I needed a way to offload and delete stuff for later viewing.

I have been doing extensive testing on the Motorola 6416 archiving capabilities.

The statement about locals is not true. It all has to do with whether the 5C flag is set and is dependent upon the area that you are in,apparantly.
More on that later in this post.

So far, I have found 3 ways to archive material from the Motorola 6416.
The first 2 are activley being used by me and the third will be later this week after my JVC from Ebay shows up.

A) DVD Recorder which will record ANYTHING coming out the S-VIDEO connection on the Moto 6416. That includes High Def stuff but that sort of defeats the purpose of high def. No copy protection issues to deal with.

B) CapDVHS from the Motorola 6416 box to a PC over firewire. Channels that have the 5C flag set will get recorded BUT they are encrypted.
There are many ways of playing back TS (transport Stream files) that Capdvhs makes.

C) A 5C compliant D-VHS deck like the Mits 2000/JVC 30K/JVC 40K or the JVC DH5U.
This will let you record and playback anything coming out of the Firewire connectoin on the Moto 6416.
IN theory, you could use a 5C compliant HDTV OTA tuner like the Samsung T165 but I have chosen not to pursue that


Further details:

1) Think of a really simple to use VHS recorder.
I bought a Sony RDRGX355 Upconverting DVD recorder which has an HDMI output.
It is designed to be used with Cable and Satellite STB's as it has an IR Blaster to control Cable and Satellite STB's.

You can setup timer recordings/instant record or Synchro recordings

I use the IR Blaster to have the DVD recorder tune the Verizon FIOS Motorola DVR to the channe/duration you want recorded or merely to start recording at a time when the DVR is scheduled to record.

Synchro recording is supposed to start recording when a signal apears on it's inputs and stop when it disparears. Perfect for using with the DVR but so far, I have not been able to get that to work with the Motorola/Sony combo . I will


I use the reusable DVD+RW disks for the daily 'soaps' that my wife likes and I will offload the Standard Definition programming to one of the many DVD formats that it supports.
You can of course record HD programming but that kind of defeats the purpose.

To record something in the DVR list (‘The now showing list’) ,You start a movie playback from the Motorola's DVR menu and hit record on the DVD recorder. 2 button presses if the movie is an hour, etc.

When the recording is done, you can delete the DVR recording at your leisure to free up disk space and then use the DVD Recoirder to watch the 1080i upconverted DVD.




On SD material, the DVD recordings,even on the SP (2 hour mode) setting, look to me as good as the original. I assume it looks so good is because the Motorola only upconverts SD to 480P yet the DVD recorder upconverts to 720P/1080i





2) Recording via Capdvhs over Firewire
The method lets you record either what you have playing in the DVR list or whatever is showing on the Box at the time.
This is where the 5C business comes in.
If you go to d11 INTERFACE STATUS from the front panel on the DVR you will see both tuners listed. The 5C flag is the CCI flag. If it is NON zero, then this is a copy protected show and the recording you make to the PC will be encrypted data.
If it is 0 then you can play back a perfectly good recording.

I have been compiling a list of 5C encrypted channels in my area and here is the list so far as to what I have done. I have started with my Favorites list and will continue to fill out the spreadsheet.

http://southriver.web.aplus.net/
Pick the abbreviated version.

Notice that such channels as National Geographic Channel HD s NOT encrypted


3) If you have a 5C compliant Device such as the JVC 30K D-VHS deck and it has an mpeg2 decoder in it, you can forget about this 5C business and record your shows onto D-VHS.
Depending upon the 5C setting, you may not be able to make copies of the tape which is perfect for us because all we want to do is to unload from the DVR to free up space.
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Old 06-07-2007, 05:57 PM   #384
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Verizon Montgomey Co. Maryland - Germantown

Well,

I just had my FIOS TV installed.

I got 2 cablecards and two set-top-boxes.

They've been having trouble with the initalization of the equipment on the Verizon TV network here. So it's been slow for the commands to traverse the network...

It appears that they must first send a initalization command to the CC's and the STBs.

Then they need to send another command to all of the units to enable them to recieve the digital channels. "This is called authorization."

The cable guy had no clue what to do with cable cards, but even with the delayed initalization and authorization... one of the two cable cards was working when he left.

Normally I'd be annoyed, but the folks at Verizon seem to be substantially better then ComCast... who they are replacing.

Not to mention that I get more channels, another set-top-box, and it's $40.00 per month cheaper!
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:41 PM   #385
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I can say that after 24 hours I have noticed that the 800 series HD channels do have a fair amount of pixelation.

Humph.h
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:17 PM   #386
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Verizon FIOS & Tivo Series3

This past March I switched from DirecTV with Tivo to Verizon FIOS with their networked DVR. For the most part, everything works, however, I really loved the ease of use of the Tivo interface.

I haven't switched to HDTV, but plan to do so before the end of the year.

I have a few general questions:

1) I've been reading about compatibility issues especially in regard to pixelation with programming. Is this a frequent occurance?

2) Are there usually issues getting the CableCards configured through Verizon?

3) With DirecTV, there was a coax output so I could run the signal to a second televison and use an RF remote to control the TV from a different room? Is there any way to do this with the Series3? I don't see a coax out on the back of the unit.

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Old 06-08-2007, 08:20 PM   #387
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1. I think you'll find pixelation on any system reported here. It's certainly not specific to Verizon.
2. Don't know
3. No coax out on the S3. Component, composite, s-video and HMDI.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:45 AM   #388
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I have had FIOS for about 6 mo now and I got my series 3 a week after the FIOS TV was installed. My experience here in VA has been :
1) No pixelation on HD channels, I do have an ocassional hiccup now and again but that goes with any broadcast service. I do think the picture quality is much better than Directv.
2) I had no problems with the cablecard install. I did not tell the phone rep why I wanted the c.c. 's, as at the time no one had heard of a Series 3 Tivo.... The installer had also never seen a Series 3 Tivo but I walked him through it with the info at the beginning of this thread. It took about 15 minutes to install the c.c.'s and everything has worked flawlessly since. YMMV
3) no coax out...
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:32 AM   #389
pauldy
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by bielen
This past March I switched from DirecTV with Tivo to Verizon FIOS with their networked DVR. For the most part, everything works, however, I really loved the ease of use of the Tivo interface.

I haven't switched to HDTV, but plan to do so before the end of the year.

I have a few general questions:

1) I've been reading about compatibility issues especially in regard to pixelation with programming. Is this a frequent occurance?

2) Are there usually issues getting the CableCards configured through Verizon?

3) With DirecTV, there was a coax output so I could run the signal to a second televison and use an RF remote to control the TV from a different room? Is there any way to do this with the Series3? I don't see a coax out on the back of the unit.

Thanks
We never had a problem with pixelation until we had a problem with a cable card and had to fight with TiVo to get them to fix it. Once we got the unit back we now have a few channels that are really bad about it. My best guess is some units have the issue some don't and its luck of the draw and probably not provider related.

I think the biggest issue with getting the cable cards setup has just been ignorance on the part of the installers. This should be a relative non-issue now as the cards have been out for a while and the installers should have at least a little experience with them vs non months back.

You can pipe it to a second display using the component output but not rf. I don't know why they don't support digital rf out because unlike analogue rf the minimal signal loss does not directly equate to a loss in picture quality.
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Old 06-09-2007, 03:30 PM   #390
eggpro
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chino, CA.
Posts: 10
I live in socal.. i just fios tv on thursday.. moving from direct tv after 10 years MUCH better picture.. I haven't received any pixelation problems.. (yet) the tivo series 3 works without any problems although when I was loading the guide off the tivo server my tivo crashed.. I tryed it again, and it worked like a charm. I have the Component feed my hd tv and I have the S video feed and second audio feed going to my sling box. the only thing i've notice if you have a 2nd tv, sling etc. hooked up the output format for set 16x9 or 4:3 is global setting meaning if you have a 16x9 tv you want to want HD it is set for 16x9 and your second tv 4:3 everything is going to be anmorphic. thats kind of a bummer.. luckily my sling box can receive a 16:9 signal and center cut it (pilarbox)
I hope that helps.
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