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Old 03-07-2007, 03:58 PM   #1
boblip11
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Mass Market HD Tivo in Development

In the commentary for the current quarter's results. Tom Rogers says that a mass market HD Tivo is in development and is a priority for this fiscal year.
Third, we came out of the holiday season with the full attention of our retail partners focused on the important role that TiVo can play in their goal to offer bundles of High Definition television products and services to consumers. We will be highly focused this year on launching a lower-priced, mass appeal High Definition product.
Press Release PDF

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Old 03-07-2007, 04:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boblip11
In the commentary for the current quarter's results. Tom Rogers says that a mass market HD Tivo is in development and is a priority for this fiscal year.
Third, we came out of the holiday season with the full attention of our retail partners focused on the important role that TiVo can play in their goal to offer bundles of High Definition television products and services to consumers. We will be highly focused this year on launching a lower-priced, mass appeal High Definition product.

I will add a link here shortly once it is up on the Tivo web site. Right now it is on financial web sites.
We will be highly focused this year on launching a lower-priced, mass appeal High Definition product.
Link to annual TiVO press release
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Old 03-07-2007, 04:18 PM   #3
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I want to preface my comment by stating that this is just hearsay. I have Comcast in the San Jose Bay Area. This morning I had cable cards installed in my new Series 3. I was grilling him about some of the things I have read on this forum. Here are two of the most interesting comments he had:

1. Tivo will soon be building the boxes for Comcast. (I told him good, because I want that piece of crap Motorala box out of my bedroom.)

2. I will really be missing out with the Series 3, because there is a lot of OnDemand content ready to be launched. Most of the OnDemand content will be High Def.
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Old 03-07-2007, 04:22 PM   #4
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Fascinating, thanks for the link!

To everyone that tried to convince me that I (and others) were wrong when we asserted that the S3 was targeted at the high end and not every Tom, Dick and Harry (or their cousin John Q. Public) all I can say is "I told you so!!!"

Hopefully we won't have a S3 repeat of "rumored now, displayed at CES 2008, released sometime 2009"!!!

We get to come up with another name, too! S4? S3.5? S2.5(not quite an S3)?

Edit: Erik, your number 1 is pretty interesting, too - from everything that I have read, the common wisdom on the Comcast/Cox deals were that Tivo was trying to get OUT of the hardware business... Potentially with making the Comcast box and this S-whatever (are they the same?) that may not be the case!

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Old 03-07-2007, 04:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikrh
I want to preface my comment by stating that this is just hearsay. I have Comcast in the San Jose Bay Area. This morning I had cable cards installed in my new Series 3. I was grilling him about some of the things I have read on this forum. Here are two of the most interesting comments he had:

1. Tivo will soon be building the boxes for Comcast. (I told him good, because I want that piece of crap Motorala box out of my bedroom.)

2. I will really be missing out with the Series 3, because there is a lot of OnDemand content ready to be launched. Most of the OnDemand content will be High Def.

On another form the comcast rep are saying that comcast will be using the tivo software in motorola boxes first then in the sa boxes.
I gues it going to a wait and see.
I don't like the motorola boxes also.
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Old 03-07-2007, 05:37 PM   #6
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I wonder what will allow them to drop the price? Just a single tuner box? smaller hard drive? Or is it just going to be cheaper for them to make now? I hope this one supports VOD, etc. then ill be jumping on the bandwagon.
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Old 03-07-2007, 05:44 PM   #7
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Maybe it'll be an OCAP box with their interface on it and standardized setups for cable providers across the US.

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Old 03-07-2007, 05:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davecramer74
I wonder what will allow them to drop the price? Just a single tuner box? smaller hard drive? Or is it just going to be cheaper for them to make now? I hope this one supports VOD, etc. then ill be jumping on the bandwagon.
AS for as i know it will based on the dual tuner 6412.
The present cost for comcast dvr is $11.95. It is expected that it will go up by $3.00 a month more for the tivo software but it supposed to able to do vod, ppv and sdv if it is rolled out.
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Old 03-07-2007, 06:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikrh
I want to preface my comment by stating that this is just hearsay. I have Comcast in the San Jose Bay Area. This morning I had cable cards installed in my new Series 3. I was grilling him about some of the things I have read on this forum. Here are two of the most interesting comments he had:

1. Tivo will soon be building the boxes for Comcast. (I told him good, because I want that piece of crap Motorala box out of my bedroom.)

2. I will really be missing out with the Series 3, because there is a lot of OnDemand content ready to be launched. Most of the OnDemand content will be High Def.

We all know how reliable information is from Comcast Techs.

I'm glad you prefaced it with being hearsay.
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikrh
I want to preface my comment by stating that this is just hearsay. I have Comcast in the San Jose Bay Area. This morning I had cable cards installed in my new Series 3. I was grilling him about some of the things I have read on this forum. Here are two of the most interesting comments he had:

1. Tivo will soon be building the boxes for Comcast. (I told him good, because I want that piece of crap Motorala box out of my bedroom.)

2. I will really be missing out with the Series 3, because there is a lot of OnDemand content ready to be launched. Most of the OnDemand content will be High Def.
What a surprise - a Comcast rep that's 0 for 2.

The Tivo product for Comcast is a software download to existing Motorola boxes - there is no new hardware.

#2 is just standard FUD.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by mrmike
Maybe it'll be an OCAP box with their interface on it and standardized setups for cable providers across the US.
If it's an OCAP box, then there won't be any "interface" on it when you buy it. Everything (applications/user interface) gets downloaded & installed by the cable company. You only get what they are willing to sell you.
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Old 03-08-2007, 07:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davecramer74
I wonder what will allow them to drop the price? Just a single tuner box? smaller hard drive? Or is it just going to be cheaper for them to make now? I hope this one supports VOD, etc. then ill be jumping on the bandwagon.
I expect the OTA tuners will be the first thing to go. TiVo has to have a clear distinction for the S3 - I don't think they're going to ditch the S3. So my guess is a cable only box, probably OCAP based, possibly working out something with the cable companies so that TiVo could potentially customize the software for the cable company (SVD and VOD possibilities???).
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Old 03-08-2007, 08:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by caddyroger
I don't like the motorola boxes also.
So if the TiVo software is running on a Moto box you wouldn't like it?

Often people don't like the TV-Guide application and attribute it to the Moto box.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter
I expect the OTA tuners will be the first thing to go. TiVo has to have a clear distinction for the S3 - I don't think they're going to ditch the S3. So my guess is a cable only box, probably OCAP based, possibly working out something with the cable companies so that TiVo could potentially customize the software for the cable company (SVD and VOD possibilities???).
I think it'll be the opposite...

OTA only, no cable cards.

I'll buy 2.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:17 AM   #15
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Cool. Looks like the scuttlebutt from a month ago was dead-on.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...08#post4865908

As for features: you can bet your bottom dollar that it won't have CableCard -- and therefore, it should support TivoToGo (maybe out of the gate?). CableCard is the real distinction of the S3: no one else has an HD-PVR that does CC. But every other HD-PVR out there (include the Sony's and WMCE-boxen) does OTA.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:38 AM   #16
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well if its mass market, i doubt its only OTA. Your excluding half of the united states that cant get ota.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:41 AM   #17
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i can't see how they drop cable card support. live digital content comes from 3 sources, OTA, satellite, and digital cable. satellite won't play nice, so tivo is left with 2. the ota growth is limited as most stations in major markets have already made the switch, so the real potential for digital content growth is with digital cable. also, tivo fought hard to get the fcc cable card integration rule in place, so they have for better or for worse staked the company on cable card technology.

if i were to wildly speculate, i could see a series 3 lite machine with slightly smaller drive (160GB), dual HD-OTA tuners, multistream cablecard support for digital cable, usb, ethernet, no e-sata, no front OLED display, possibly dropping HDMI for component ala xbox 360. sold for about $299.

i doubt we will see anything until after june.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:42 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary
As for features: you can bet your bottom dollar that it won't have CableCard -- and therefore, it should support TivoToGo (maybe out of the gate?). CableCard is the real distinction of the S3: no one else has an HD-PVR that does CC. But every other HD-PVR out there (include the Sony's and WMCE-boxen) does OTA.
I thought I read that ALL cable boxes, including the cable company is going to have to use cable cards. Am I mistaken?
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:44 AM   #19
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ya, that would make sense. I would think theyd trim it down so that they can sell there s3 for 500 and their new one for 2-300. hard drive, no hdmi would be the 2 easiest cuts for them to make.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by davecramer74
...Your excluding half of the united states that cant get ota.
HALF?!...I think that's stretching it a bit...
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:55 AM   #21
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i also think a tivo media extender would be an excellent addition to compliment the s3 line. no tuners, just networking and a small drive to cache streamed content from a s3 or TivoCast. hdmi, component, digital audio outputs ala appleTV. all for about $149. of course, this would require MRV be enabled on the S3's which may not happen soon.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:02 AM   #22
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i can't see how they drop cable card support. live digital content comes from 3 sources, OTA, satellite, and digital cable. satellite won't play nice, so tivo is left with 2. the ota growth is limited as most stations in major markets have already made the switch, so the real potential for digital content growth is with digital cable. also, tivo fought hard to get the fcc cable card integration rule in place, so they have for better or for worse staked the company on cable card technology.

if i were to wildly speculate, i could see a series 3 lite machine with slightly smaller drive (160GB), dual HD-OTA tuners, multistream cablecard support for digital cable, usb, ethernet, no e-sata, no front OLED display, possibly dropping HDMI for component ala xbox 360. sold for about $299.
Sounds pretty reasonable. I still think that OTA won't be included, if for no other reason than to importantly differentiate the S3 in the eyes of purchasers. I would be surprised if HDMI was dropped; you don't drop the new standard right at the beginning of your product lifetime. Too many problems towards the end of the product lifetime then!

I would still guess initial list price of $399, possibly dropping down by $50 or so by the holiday season. (They seemed to be quite emphatic that they would not subsidize the price during their conference call yesterday.)
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:14 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by hornblowercat
I thought I read that ALL cable boxes, including the cable company is going to have to use cable cards. Am I mistaken?

I ask again. Don't all boxes have to have cable cards? Am I on everyone's ignore list?
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:20 AM   #24
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Only if they're doing digital cable. (the S2 dual tuner doesn't have CC's, for example)

I have 2 S3's, and if it did HD OTA, and standard cable, and TTG and MRV, I'd buy one, maybe two.... I love my S3, but I really miss my other features.....
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:27 AM   #25
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I ask again. Don't all boxes have to have cable cards? Am I on everyone's ignore list?
after july 1, 2007, cable companies will have to provide customers devices which use cable cards instead of built in security. this assumes they don't get another extension to the deadline. existing devices can remain in place. only new leased equipment has this requirement. i don't know about replacement devices.

btw, cable companies made $2.5 billion leasing equipment to their customers last year, so they are going to fight this as much as possible.

Last edited by kido : 03-08-2007 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:30 AM   #26
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btw, cable companies made $2.5 billion dollars leasing equipment to their customers last year, so they are going to fight this as much as possible.
By "made $2.5b" do you mean profit or revenue? It has always been my contention that STBs are practically loss leaders to earn other revenue (such as VOD and PPV). I'm just curious about your statistic.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:31 AM   #27
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So if the TiVo software is running on a Moto box you wouldn't like it?

Often people don't like the TV-Guide application and attribute it to the Moto box.
I didn't mind the guide. I don't even care what color if it is or even it got ads on it.
I won't know that until comcast comes out with the tivo unit. The reason that I didn't the moto was 15 sec slow buttons acting, fast forward issues. If the moto tivo acts just like the s3 i might go back to it.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:42 AM   #28
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By "made $2.5b" do you mean profit or revenue? It has always been my contention that STBs are practically loss leaders to earn other revenue (such as VOD and PPV). I'm just curious about your statistic.
from http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6107359.html towards the bottom.

Quote:
The industry makes roughly $2.5 billion a year leasing set-top boxes to consumers, according to estimates from Kagan Research.
it doesn't specify, but i would think revenue.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:51 AM   #29
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From my understanding of the current Series 3 platform, they could lighten it by:
  • Economizing the front panel Remove OLED and buttons.
  • Eliminate matrix box and use splitter, so as the unit can tune cable OR antenna. Or usie individual jacks, to each tuner can individually tune cable or antenna, or use a splitter to run one source type.
  • Drop "licensed" technologies not needed for base DVR functionality, such as MPEG4, eSATA, Dolby Digital/digital audio, THX. Maybe keep HDMI though.
  • work out multistream, so only one CC slot need be installed.
  • Maybe economize the existing Series 3 platform, by integrating chips, such as the MPEG4 decoder, and further economise that into the Series 3 lite.

As for HDD size, keep 300GB in it, and upgrade the full Series 3 to a larger drive.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:52 AM   #30
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HALF?!...I think that's stretching it a bit...
if you look at it geographically I think half is right on, might even be less. But if looked at by population I think more than half get ota HD.
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