Wishlists to be outlawed- Tivo next?

[Justin Thyme]

The reintroduced Perform Act contains at nasty little portion that prevents XM users from automatically recording based on artist, song titles, etc. Sound familiar? The function is no different than Wishlists and Season Passes.

According to the Bill (S.256), "reasonable recordings"

do not permit automated recording or playback based on specific sound recordings, albums, or artists; (source)

but manual recordings are ok:

``(B) Nothing in this paragraph shall prevent a consumer from engaging in non-automated manual recording and playback in a manner that is not an infringement of copyright.''.

Something like what brain damaged Cable DVRs do...

Diane Fienstein's question to XM radio representatives was: "So this just allows you do create the contents of a CD without paying for it"

Get the drift? Substitute DVD for CD and Tivo is next in the crosshairs.

The act is championed by Diane Feinstein, Lindsay Graham, Joseph Biden and Lamar Alexandar.

Example opposition letter to your senator against the bill may be found at the EFF. They will send it (or you can personalize it) to your appropriate senators if you wish.

[drew2k]

Season Passes also record by title, as do Series Links on the DirecTV-branded PVRs, and Series on Microsoft's Media Center Edition PCs. I don't know enough about Dish, but I'm sure they have a similar feature in their PVRs.

How long before these TiVo and these other three companies start lobbying against this bill?

[DrewTivo]

Originally Posted by drew2k

Season Passes also record by title, as do Series Links on the DirecTV-branded PVRs, and Series on Microsoft's Media Center Edition PCs. I don't know enough about Dish, but I'm sure they have a similar feature in their PVRs.

How long before these TiVo and these other three companies start lobbying against this bill?

While I see the point, and could imagine this eventually also being extended to tivo, the bill doesn't do that. Moreover, it's aimed at a somewhat different issue: people recording individual songs instead of buying them. The sale of individual episodes of tv shows is still just a fledgling market, and may not soon reach the scope of music sales of this type.

[yunlin12]

There's also a difference that commercials are not inserted into each songs, so when XM user do song based recording they are getting something that's completely commercial free, just like a CD.

However, Tivo's recordings, if obtained from non-premium channels, contain commercials that are inserted into each individual show. Without removing those, user's not getting the equivalent of a DVD.

If user Tivo shows from premium channels, they are already paying extra for the commercial free content, so I don't see a problem here either.

[drew2k]

Originally Posted by DrewTivo

While I see the point, and could imagine this eventually also being extended to tivo, the bill doesn't do that. Moreover, it's aimed at a somewhat different issue: people recording individual songs instead of buying them. The sale of individual episodes of tv shows is still just a fledgling market, and may not soon reach the scope of music sales of this type.

Originally Posted by yunlin12

There's also a difference that commercials are not inserted into each songs, so when XM user do song based recording they are getting something that's completely commercial free, just like a CD.

However, Tivo's recordings, if obtained from non-premium channels, contain commercials that are inserted into each individual show. Without removing those, user's not getting the equivalent of a DVD.

If user Tivo shows from premium channels, they are already paying extra for the commercial free content, so I don't see a problem here either.

Many channels on XM are commercial-free, but some channels actually DO have commercial advertisements. However, your point is taken that a song recorded from XM would be an uninterrupted recording, starting and ending with the song itself, so unlike iVo recordings, commercials couldn't even be captured.

In addition, most channels have a ginormous logo/bug in a corner of the screen. Just another point of dissimilarities between TiVo recordings and DVD content.

[CraigHB]

God forbid those poor starving record companies get screwed out of a dollar. It's amazing to me how the US government puts so much legislation into protecting their interests, and those of the film industry as well.

[Billy66]

They must also be taking into account future value. if I record Seinfeld, sure I'll watch it. Maybe I'll even make a copy for a buddy, but it's effective use to either of us is one viewing. For music that number is much higher. If recorded, I would listen to it for many years. Anyone that I shared it with would as well.

I think that makes it a bigger practical jump if it currently is a smaller philosophical one.

[timr_42]

Originally Posted by CraigHB

God forbid those poor starving record companies get screwed out of a dollar. It's amazing to me how the US government puts so much legislation into protecting their interests, and those of the film industry as well.

It's because of $$$$$$$$$$$$'s. Thank God the government is looking out for us little guys.

[samo]

There's also a difference that commercials are not inserted into each songs, so when XM user do song based recording they are getting something that's completely commercial free, just like a CD.

Setting season pass for "Sopranos" will allow you to record the whole season commercial free. Using the same logic it "allows you do create the contents of a DVD without paying for it". Very dangerous bill.

[Gai-jin]

Originally Posted by yunlin12

If user Tivo shows from premium channels, they are already paying extra for the commercial free content, so I don't see a problem here either.

Just as XM users are paying extra for commercial free content.

[ZeoTiVo]

another example from the stupid bill of the month club.

Someone showed them a problem - sales of 45s are down. and the representatives who have no idea 45 sales should logically be down come up with a bill copied from the lobbyist to bring sales of 45s back up. The people who introduced this bill have no concept of the legitimate use of XM or a DVR and the illegitimate use of hacking a XM receiver hooked up to a PC to amass a nice tidy collection of digitally recorded MP3s. So one big bill to rule them all instead of going after the XM hack itself in the form of use of an XM receiver outside the Terms of Service.


NOTE - the sale of 45s is just a metaphor for where the tech mindset of the representatives is. So no posts needed on the fact 45s are not involved

[TivoJunkie43]

Originally Posted by Justin Thyme

Diane Fienstein's question to XM radio representatives was: "So this just allows you do create the contents of a CD without paying for it"

First we have to consider the source, and then take in to account all previous irrational thought displayed by said source.

Fienstein doesn't know the difference between "create", re-create, and "record"?

If I automatically record some songs that doesn't mean I'm trying to "create the contents of a CD", anymore than If I automatically record a program using a VHS does this mean that I'm trying to create movies. If I'm recording for my own personal use - whatever the method - that's perfectly legal. The fact that we now have the option to record content automatically doesn't change previous law.

[drew2k]

Originally Posted by TivoJunkie43

First we have to consider the source, and then take in to account all previous irrational thought displayed by said source.

Fienstein doesn't know the difference between "create", re-create, and "record"?

If I automatically record some songs that doesn't mean I'm trying to "create the contents of a CD", anymore than If I automatically record a program using a VHS does this mean that I'm trying to create movies. If I'm recording for my own personal use - whatever the method - that's perfectly legal. The fact that we now have the option to record content automatically doesn't change previous law.

Other then her use of the word "just", there is nothing irrational in what she asked, as using the XM service to copy 12 specific songs by the same artist, and arranging them in a certain order and then burning them to CD can indeed "create the contents of a CD" without paying for the actual CD. This is not something difficult to parse. This technology exists now (hook your tuner up to your tape deck, press record), but the quality will not be the same. The danger is how broadly written or interpreted this bill will be, to see what other forms of media are affected. (BTW, I'm not in support of the bill ... I'm just commenting on Feinstein's quote, and that it is is just one way to interpret what the XM service permits.)

[TivoJunkie43]

Originally Posted by drew2k

Other then her use of the word "just", there is nothing irrational in what she asked, as using the XM service to copy 12 specific songs by the same artist, and arranging them in a certain order and then burning them to CD can indeed "create the contents of a CD" without paying for the actual CD. This is not something difficult to parse. This technology exists now (hook your tuner up to your tape deck, press record), but the quality will not be the same. The danger is how broadly written or interpreted this bill will be, to see what other forms of media are affected. (BTW, I'm not in support of the bill ... I'm just commenting on Feinstein's quote, and that it is is just one way to interpret what the XM service permits.)

I was referring to her politics; as far as i'm concerned she's a nut! Have you ever heard her speak? IMO she has little in the way of common sense, so when i hear she's behind this bill it puts things in perspective for me. I suppose liberal democrats would disagree....

1. I think most people could tell the difference between XM recordings burned to a CR-R and the store bought CD.

2. Even if you went through all the trouble and time of trying to copy the CD, as long as it's a recording made for your own personal use it's legal.

3. If you created a duplicate CD and tried to sell it on the open market that would be illegal, but XM pays distribution royalties to the artists who's content they use, and I'm sure they don't condone the use of their service to break the law.

I have to wonder why the Congress is wasting tax payer dollars in this matter when the law is quite clear.

[gtrogue]

Originally Posted by Justin Thyme

The reintroduced Perform Act contains at nasty little portion that prevents XM users from automatically recording based on artist, song titles, etc. Sound familiar? The function is no different than Wishlists and Season Passes.

According to the Bill (S.256), "reasonable recordings"

but manual recordings are ok:

Something like what brain damaged Cable DVRs do...

Diane Fienstein's question to XM radio representatives was: "So this just allows you do create the contents of a CD without paying for it"

Get the drift? Substitute DVD for CD and Tivo is next in the crosshairs.

The act is championed by Diane Feinstein, Lindsay Graham, Joseph Biden and Lamar Alexandar.

Example opposition letter to your senator against the bill may be found at the EFF. They will send it (or you can personalize it) to your appropriate senators if you wish.

I love it! Automatic recordings that don't infringe on copyright will now be illegal while manual recordings that don't infringe on copyright will be legal.
Sometimes I wish we could get rid of all 535 members of Congress and start over. It's our own fault for continuing to elect these idiots. I honestly don't see how Feinstein keeps getting elected. She's like the crazy cat lady that used to live up the street from me.