Partial recording problem... - Page 3

sfm · 10-12-2006, 07:48 PM

I was hopeful the "b" update addressed this issue but, alas, no such luck. The recording of "The Nine" last night was partial... the first 14 minutes only (and reflected such in the status display for the recording). The 6412 recorded this show without issue. All other recordings for the day on the Tivo were fine (FYI, I only record HD with the S3).

Mystified as to why Tivo can't figure this one out... a quick glance at the source code should reveal what reasons cause the Tivo to stop recording (or trying to record) a requested program (or perhaps the program/thread is crashing, but surely, they have some error recovery built in for that case?).

Ah well, off to pester Tivo support some more.

c3 · 10-12-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfm

Mystified as to why Tivo can't figure this one out... a quick glance at the source code should reveal what reasons....

I wish all debugging is that simple.

MikeO · 10-12-2006, 08:04 PM

Argh! Looks like I have the problem again.. It has only happened twice before tonight.

Survivor was recording. I was watching some already recorded shows "waiting" to timeshift survivor... around 8:55 right before survivor was about to end I went to the Now Playing and selected survivor. Nothing, it showed it was recording but there was nothing recorded. I hit LiveTV and cbs channel was blank as if it wasn't tuned.

I have read many of these posts about the problem and went to the diagnostics screen and both tuners said they were tuned.. I went ahead and stopped the recording (that was just blank.... ) and cbs immediately tuned in. Recording was empty which should have been :58

Has anyone had any luck getting this into to Tivo?? TivoPony and TivoJerry have not been here lately ( posting anyways.. )

this HAS to get fixed! help!

mike

Cloud · 10-12-2006, 08:16 PM

This is getting old.... I've gotten 6 partial or no recordings in the two weeks I've had this S3... Not off to a very good start at all...

jfh3 · 10-12-2006, 11:36 PM

Another one for me, perhaps appropriately, during "Lost" on Wednesday.

I really hate not being able to count on Tivo getting all of my recordings all the time.

This HAS to be some sort of error handling bug.

PPC1 · 10-13-2006, 07:10 AM

Not that you are required or anything, but TiVoStephen or TiVoJerry, it sure would make me feel a lot better if I heard from one of you that someone is looking at the issue. Any chance you guys might give us some insight as to the current thoughts of TiVo on this? Thanks in advance.

hookbill · 10-13-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh3

Another one for me, perhaps appropriately, during "Lost" on Wednesday.

I really hate not being able to count on Tivo getting all of my recordings all the time.

This HAS to be some sort of error handling bug.

It's not happening to me and I did have that problem with my SA 8300. But there is definitely a problem if it keeps happening to you guys. Hopefully TiVo can figure out whats going on.

SCSIRAID · 10-13-2006, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPC1

Not that you are required or anything, but TiVoStephen or TiVoJerry, it sure would make me feel a lot better if I heard from one of you that someone is looking at the issue. Any chance you guys might give us some insight as to the current thoughts of TiVo on this? Thanks in advance.

Has anyone called it into support and gotten it escalated into engineering?

Cloud · 10-13-2006, 07:41 AM

I called support with three issues, tuner issues, missed or blank spots in recordings, and TiVo rebooting during play back of a few shows. They are sending me a replacement TiVo with out me even asking. The thing that bugs me is I don't expect the replacement TiVo to fix any of these issues..... The partial recording and reboots sure seem like an issue that software could and should fix....

SCSIRAID · 10-13-2006, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

I called support with three issues, tuner issues, missed or blank spots in recordings, and TiVo rebooting during play back of a few shows. They are sending me a replacement TiVo with out me even asking. The thing that bugs me is I don't expect the replacement TiVo to fix any of these issues..... The partial recording and reboots sure seem like an issue that software could and should fix....

You may be right.... but.... you will know for sure if the replacement repeats the issues.

jfh3 · 10-13-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSIRAID

Has anyone called it into support and gotten it escalated into engineering?

I've been told my case has been sent to engineering - I've spent at least 8 hours on multiple calls on this. Engineering is supposed to be calling me, but I don't hold out much hope for that - it's been the better part of two weeks since the confirmation of escalation. (Originally I was told that engineering was swamped and that the normal reponse target of 24 hours was now 4 days, though that was a week ago).

I did get a call from a supervisor last Sunday, basically telling me that nothing had changed. I don't know if engineering has actually reviewed the case or even reviewed the questions I had (trying to determine if the partial recording problems could be related to CableCARD state changes I've observed).

I did hear one thing from the supervisor that concerned me - apparently, if you have an open ticket that has been put in the engineering queue it will be removed from that queue if you call in and someone updates your ticket (e.g. it will be reassigned to the initial queue and you lose your escalation timestamp) so he suggested that if you are calling to check on status have the rep look at the record, but not update it.

Obviously, I've stopped calling in with all the detail they wanted every time I get a partial recording.

I'm hoping that TivoJerry or someone else from engineering will post some sort of status update. I understand they may not have a fix yet, but it would be nice to know if they acknowledge it's a problem.

This certainly seems to be the most serious problem for the Series 3 so far and it would be nice to know if the partial recording, CableCARD state change and random tuner loss issues are related.

It's also very frustrating, because I'm sure someone on the engineering team could answer the questions in the record in about 10 minutes and that would go a long way to helping provide the information required for end users to diagnose or catagorize their problems.

As hard as it is to get a problem ticket escalated above the first level team, I would encourage others to try. But you will have to convince them:
- No one could've cancelled the recording
- Your cable signal is fine
- You had no power problems
- There is nothing in recording history
- You have info on the program(s) in question, including what else was recording at the same time or immediately after and what tuner it was

Not easy and not always possible, though I did get lucky and caught the holy grail when I was on the phone with the rep on my second call - I was watching the station that was supposedly recording at the time and found I had not only a partial recording of the same program, but an unexpected cablecard status as well.

jfh3 · 10-13-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

I called support with three issues, tuner issues, missed or blank spots in recordings, and TiVo rebooting during play back of a few shows. They are sending me a replacement TiVo with out me even asking. The thing that bugs me is I don't expect the replacement TiVo to fix any of these issues..... The partial recording and reboots sure seem like an issue that software could and should fix....

This is exactly the type of response you would hope could be avoided.

I would be stunned if this was a hardware problem or, at the very least, a problem that couldn't be handled in the software.

I've seen the partial recording problem on each tuner on each of two boxes.
I've got a near perfect input signal to each box, as calibrated by a great cable tech.
When I've had instances of the same show recording on both boxes at the same time and had a partial recording, it's always been partial on one box, fine on the other (though it's not like the partial recordings always happen on one box).

It's got to cost Tivo a lot of money to exchange boxes that may not even have a problem. If they know there's a hardware problem, fine. But swapping out hardware doesn't do anything to find the true root cause of the problem.

Roderigo · 10-13-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh3

I would be stunned if this was a hardware problem or, at the very least, a problem that couldn't be handled in the software.

I wonder if somehow this is a cablecard problem? Is this happening with both Motorola and SA cards?

jfh3 · 10-13-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roderigo

I wonder if somehow this is a cablecard problem? Is this happening with both Motorola and SA cards?

From what I've read here, CableCARDs seem to be involved in some way - I haven't seen anyone report the same type of partial recordings when CableCARDs are not in use.

My cards were/are brand new, never used before, Motorola cards at the 4.21 firmware level.

Everytime I check CableCARD status close to when I see a partial recording, I have at least one CableCARD not in the state I expect.

That's one of the reasons I asked engineering when/how Tivo queries the card for status/encryption request, etc.

So far, I've not seen a partial recording on a premium or encrypted channel, only on the digital local networks, but that's the bulk of my current recordings.

SCSIRAID · 10-13-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roderigo

I wonder if somehow this is a cablecard problem? Is this happening with both Motorola and SA cards?

Dont know if there is enough data on the table to know...

I would hope that Tivos have an event log that their engineering could query remotely. It could indicate abnormal events such as a recording terminating early with an indication of why... If Tivo knows about you they possibly could start watching your log... Hypothetical though... I dont know if they have such capability. If they dont.... they need to consider it for future code releases!

hookbill · 10-13-2006, 10:49 AM

When I had this problem with my SA 8300, no cable card of course it happened to me only on network HD channels during prime time. Weird, huh?

Nobody could ever fix my problem so that's why I went with the S3. Since the S3, no problem.

SCSIRAID · 10-13-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh3

From what I've read here, CableCARDs seem to be involved in some way - I haven't seen anyone report the same type of partial recordings when CableCARDs are not in use.

My cards were/are brand new, never used before, Motorola cards at the 4.21 firmware level.

Everytime I check CableCARD status close to when I see a partial recording, I have at least one CableCARD not in the state I expect.

That's one of the reasons I asked engineering when/how Tivo queries the card for status/encryption request, etc.

So far, I've not seen a partial recording on a premium or encrypted channel, only on the digital local networks, but that's the bulk of my current recordings.

If its on an unencrypted channel, it would seem that the cablecard isnt involved except for perhaps a bad channel mapping change. Ive only had one partial and it was also on an unencrypted digital channel (2 min of CSM:Miami).

My cards are SA.

Leo_N · 10-13-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hookbill

When I had this problem with my SA 8300, no cable card of course it happened to me only on network HD channels during prime time. Weird, huh?

Nobody could ever fix my problem so that's why I went with the S3. Since the S3, no problem.

Same here, had this many a time with the Moxi when I had that. Not a single problem with either S3 so far.

Leo_N · 10-13-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSIRAID

If its on an unencrypted channel, it would see that the cablecard isnt involved except for perhaps a bad channel mapping change. Ive only had one partial and it was also on an unencrypted digital channel (2 min of CSM:Miami).

My cards are SA.

People unexpectedly losing their HD local channels and getting them back has been a common problem with cablecards so far. It probably does have something to do with channel mapping.

The one thing that would be nice is if Tivo could generate some error message when a signal is lost. At least there would be something for people having problems to go to the cable companies with.

c3 · 10-13-2006, 10:59 AM

I don't have CableCards yet. Yesterday my two 6-hour test recordings (one 1080i and one 720p) ended up being 5:57 and 5:59.

jfh3 · 10-13-2006, 01:03 PM

Just heard from someone in Tivo engineering - this issue of partial recordings is an open issue that's being worked on, along with the other two I mentioned (see below). They couldn't really tell me more, but at least we now have confirmation that engineering recognizes that the partial recording issue is a real problem.

The three issues I had specifically mentioned:
- Partial recording issue
- Tuner loss issue (may be related to the partial recordings)
- Audio dropouts

I'm still hopeful this is a software (error recovery) issue, but got no indication either way.

Also a comment about not doing more with Customer Service on this, since they don't have much info to work with (not terribly surprising). I presume this means that people that see this problem, but haven't reported it can call in and say "me too", but those with already open tickets aren't likely to provide additional information engineering doesn't already have.

SCSIRAID · 10-13-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh3

Just heard from someone in Tivo engineering - this issue of partial recordings is an open issue that's being worked on, along with the other two I mentioned (see below). They couldn't really tell me more, but at least we now have confirmation that engineering recognizes that the partial recording issue is a real problem.

The three issues I had specifically mentioned:
- Partial recording issue
- Tuner loss issue (may be related to the partial recordings)
- Audio dropouts

I'm still hopeful this is a software (error recovery) issue, but got no indication either way.

Also a comment about not doing more with Customer Service on this, since they don't have much info to work with (not terribly surprising). I presume this means that people that see this problem, but haven't reported it can call in and say "me too", but those with already open tickets aren't likely to provide additional information engineering doesn't already have.

Thats Great news JFH.... Thanks!!!!

bicker · 10-13-2006, 01:48 PM

Excellent news, indeed. Hopefully, we'll get a timely update if the fix isn't in the November service update.

sommerfeld · 10-13-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh3

Just heard from someone in Tivo engineering - this issue of partial recordings is an open issue that's being worked on, along with the other two I mentioned (see below). They couldn't really tell me more, but at least we now have confirmation that engineering recognizes that the partial recording issue is a real problem.

That matches what I've heard.

My original S3 -- which suffered partial tuner loss and a few partial recordings -- is en route back to tivo engineering for some sort of "failure analysis", with several partial recordings on its disk.

Its replacement arrived today and, so far, appears to not exhibit the tuner loss problem.

Interestingly, my unit has never seen a cable card -- the problems were entirely with analog cable. The new unit appears to have slightly better analog picture quality than the original but it's hard to tell for sure.

PPC1 · 10-13-2006, 02:42 PM

I hope I am not overly optimistic that they will get this fixed. If they do fix this, I will absolutely love, love, love my S3.

I could still use sound on Fox Soccer, but still, I will be a VERY happy camper.

SCSIRAID · 10-13-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPC1

I hope I am not overly optimistic that they will get this fixed. If they do fix this, I will absolutely love, love, love my S3.

I could still use sound on Fox Soccer, but still, I will be a VERY happy camper.

Is Fox Soccer analog or digital on your system? (if you record it do you get a 'quality' option?). If digital, could it be a channel mapping issue that the cableco would have to fix? Do you know anybody in your area with a cablecard that dont have the issue?

PPC1 · 10-13-2006, 03:10 PM

Fox Soccer Channel (FSC) is on the digital tier (ch. 122).

I do get sound on FSC on my other outlet using my Pace set top box. I did get sound for FSC on the same Pace box on the outlet my S3 is now on, before I relegated it to the den.

Looking at the S3 diagnostics screen, there is a value for the audio PIDs (67, I think). It could be the PAT, but I am by no means an expert on this. Any advice given would be much appreciated.

Oh, and no, I don't know anyone around me that has a cable card.

Roderigo · 10-13-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPC1

I do get sound on FSC on my other outlet using my Pace set top box. I did get sound for FSC on the same Pace box on the outlet my S3 is now on, before I relegated it to the den.

Looking at the S3 diagnostics screen, there is a value for the audio PIDs (67, I think). It could be the PAT, but I am by no means an expert on this. Any advice given would be much appreciated.

Does this channel have any alternate audio tracks? To check, select the dolby icon in the banner. Maybe it's picking the wrong audio track by default. I know around here, KQED has audio tracks with no actual audio on them. If the diagnostics screen is showing a PID, it seems like it's at least trying to play some audio.

PPC1 · 10-13-2006, 03:37 PM

Thanks, Roderigo. That's one of the thoughts I had. (Great minds think alike, eh?) Unfortunately, there was no alternate audio track when I checked.

PPC1 · 10-13-2006, 04:52 PM

FWIW, Brighthouse CSR indicated that she just needed to "re-send the sigal" and that I would need to re-boot and that will fix it. She indicated that they had seen that before. We will see when I get home if it works. Thanks all for sharing suggestions.