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Old 09-30-2006, 09:31 AM   #301
hiker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musictoo
So, after exhaustive reading I haven't seen this answered yet. I know that the output is simultaneous for each output on the TiVo. I know the aspect ratio is global for all outputs. Is there a button on the remote to change the aspect ratio? Or do you have to go into the setup to do that? I want to set the S3 up with my HD TV in one room and pipe the composite up to my SD TV and I don't want to have a bunch of button presses to get the picture correct for each TV. Hope I've explained this clearly enough.
Yes there is a separate button on the remote for Aspect. It cycles between Full, Panel and Zoom. As an alternative, the same can be done with the menu Aspect Correction Mode. If you are viewing an HD channel, it seems to do nothing unless the TV Aspect Ratio menu is set to 4:3 Classic Screen. If you are viewing an SD channel, it seems to do nothing unless the TV Aspect Ratio menu is set to 16:9 Widescreen. If the TV Aspect Ratio menu is set to 4:3 Smart Screen, the Aspect button does nothing for either SD or HD channel. My tests were done on a 16:9 monitor using component and 4:3 SD TV using S-Video.
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Last edited by hiker : 09-30-2006 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 09-30-2006, 10:01 AM   #302
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Thanks Hiker. If you are watching a 16:9 HD program via component or HDMI, what displays on the SD TV at that time?
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Old 09-30-2006, 10:30 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musictoo
Is there a button on the remote to change the aspect ratio?
No.

Quote:
Or do you have to go into the setup to do that?
Yes.
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Old 09-30-2006, 10:34 AM   #304
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No.
Are you sure about that?


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Old 09-30-2006, 11:05 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musictoo
Thanks Hiker. If you are watching a 16:9 HD program via component or HDMI, what displays on the SD TV at that time?
The 16:9 image is compressed side-to-side to 4:3 so that people and objects look tall and skinny. I don't think there is an option to truncate the sides so the SD image is not distorted.

Thanks for the pic, Fofer.
jfh3, I don't know what problem you are having. Maybe you were thinking of resolution instead of aspect because there is no way, like the HR10-250, to change resolution with the remote unless you use a menu.
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Old 09-30-2006, 11:47 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by hiker
The 16:9 image is compressed side-to-side to 4:3 so that people and objects look tall and skinny. I don't think there is an option to truncate the sides so the SD image is not distorted.

Thanks for the pic, Fofer.
jfh3, I don't know what problem you are having. Maybe you were thinking of resolution instead of aspect because there is no way, like the HR10-250, to change resolution with the remote unless you use a menu.
To change the output resolution on a HR10-250 you just hit the Down arrow and it cycles through the output resolutions you have set up to be used in the menu. Works fine, I haven't tried it with the S3 to see if it does the same thing as I'm using native which does it on the fly.
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Old 09-30-2006, 12:26 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR
To change the output resolution on a HR10-250 you just hit the Down arrow and it cycles through the output resolutions you have set up to be used in the menu. Works fine, I haven't tried it with the S3 to see if it does the same thing as I'm using native which does it on the fly.
keenan, no such option on the S3. There should be. And BTW, on the HR10 it's the UP arrow to change output resolution, which has to be first enabled on a menu.
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Old 09-30-2006, 12:33 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by hiker
keenan, no such option on the S3. There should be. And BTW, on the HR10 it's the UP arrow to change output resolution, which has to be first enabled on a menu.
Yeah, I couldn't remember which it was, I knew it was one of them.
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Old 09-30-2006, 01:12 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by hiker
jfh3, I don't know what problem you are having. Maybe you were thinking of resolution instead of aspect because there is no way, like the HR10-250, to change resolution with the remote unless you use a menu.
I don't have any problem. The poster I was responding to wanted to be able to change the output ratio for different TVs between 16x9 and 4x3.

The Aspect key on the Series 3 remote changes the zoom and presentation, not the video formatting type and probably should be labeled "Zoom" rather than "Aspect".

So, my answer still stands. To change the output you have to go into Settings/Video/TV Aspect Ratio and you can't do that with just a button press on the remote.
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Old 09-30-2006, 01:14 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Fofer
Are you sure about that?

Yes.

The "Aspect" key doesn't do what the poster wanted to do and functions more like the "Zoom" or "Wide" key on most TV remotes.
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Old 09-30-2006, 05:53 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3
I don't have any problem. The poster I was responding to wanted to be able to change the output ratio for different TVs between 16x9 and 4x3.

The Aspect key on the Series 3 remote changes the zoom and presentation, not the video formatting type and probably should be labeled "Zoom" rather than "Aspect".

So, my answer still stands. To change the output you have to go into Settings/Video/TV Aspect Ratio and you can't do that with just a button press on the remote.
Thanks for the info. Bummer, I was hoping to just do a simple macro on the remote for each TV. Doesn't sound like that will be to easy now...
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Old 09-30-2006, 06:28 PM   #312
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Harmony Remotes and the TiVo Series 3

I posted this over at AVS so I figured I'd post here as well. I don't recall if any of this had been addressed earlier in the thread, and if it belongs somewhere else, maybe a mod can move it.

Okay, here's the procedure for speeding up the Harmony remote, in my case an 880.

In the device column select "Troubleshooting" for the device in question and you should be presented with the following screens. Select the ones I've marked to proceed through the adjustment.







At the below screen I found that the 880 was set at "3". I reset at "2" and updated. It was a bit quicker. I went back in and reset all the way to "0" and updated.


It seems as fast as the S3 remote now, very quick in the menus and seems to be the same speed as the S3 in the guide, which is slow even with the S3 remote. Very happy with how the 880 works with the S3 now. At a minimum, it is at least as fast as the S3 remote.

One caveat, by lowering the repeat number, the "0-5", the tech said the S3 may not respond correctly to some inputs. So far, I have not seen any problem using the menus or the guide so I'm leaving it set at "0" for now.
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Old 10-02-2006, 02:23 PM   #313
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connection for cable card

The cable cards just plug into the Tivo (bottom slot first). The cable goes only into the lower coax input. That input will be used for both cable cards. If you also have an antenna, it will connect to the top coax. The cable cards have only a double row of pins that connect once it is pushed fully into the card slots.
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:37 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by FlippedBit
Thanks for all of the info. Could you give the length of the cables in the FAQ please. Specifically I want to know how long the Component cables are. Thanks
If someone is willing to measure the cables I will. I'd rather not tear my entire system apart to get the cables out to measure.
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:59 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by megazone
If someone is willing to measure the cables I will. I'd rather not tear my entire system apart to get the cables out to measure.
The component set is 6', the rest of the cables all look to be 6' as well although I didn't open those packages, just the component.
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Old 10-03-2006, 03:23 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by keenanSR
The component set is 6', the rest of the cables all look to be 6' as well although I didn't open those packages, just the component.
Actually, I asked about the HDMI cable length before I went and ordered a longer one. Turns out the HDMI cable that comes with the Series 3 is (or was, in my case anyway) 2 meters long (and fairly thin but hey, it seems to work beautifully). That 2 meters ended up being been long enough so I am not actually using the 10' (heavy-duty) cable I ordered from Monoprice...
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:58 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3
I don't have any problem. The poster I was responding to wanted to be able to change the output ratio for different TVs between 16x9 and 4x3.

The Aspect key on the Series 3 remote changes the zoom and presentation, not the video formatting type and probably should be labeled "Zoom" rather than "Aspect".

So, my answer still stands. To change the output you have to go into Settings/Video/TV Aspect Ratio and you can't do that with just a button press on the remote.
Not exactly. It depends on the TV type setting.

With 16:9 set as my TV type (Sony KDF-42WE655) and video output via HDMI to the TV and via s-video to a Slingbox:

Viewing a HDTV channel:

- The Aspect button has no effect. The TV displays the correct image, but the SlingPlayer in 4:3 mode displays a vertically-stretched image.

Viewing a SDTV channel:

- Setting Full stretches the display to fit the aspect ratio of the screen. This results in a horizontally-stretched image on the TV, but a properly formatted image on the 4:3 SlingPlayer screen.

- Setting Pannel adds pillarboxing, so the image is a 4:3 box inside a 16:9 window with grey bars on the left and right of the TV image, but the SlingPlayer shows a vertically stretched image with the TV image sandwiched between grey boxes.

- Setting Zoom displays a 16:9 window of the image on the TV. The image is scaled properly, but chopped off on the top, bottom, left, and right. On the SlingPlayer, I get a vertically stretched image.

The above holds true if you set the TV to Smart mode.

If you set the TV to Classic 4:3, then the effects are reversed:

Viewing a SD channel:

- The Aspect button has no effect. The 4:3 SlingPlayer displays the correct image, but the TV displays a vertically compressed image.

Viewing a HD channel:

- Full mode displays a vertically stretched image on the 4:3 SlingPlayer. The image is properly formatted on the TV

- Panel mode displays a properly letterboxed image on the 4:3 SlingPlayer. The image is vertically compressed on the TV with grey bars on the top and bottom.

- Zoom mode scales up the image so it fills a 4:3 display, at the cost of cutting off the sides of the image. The image looks correct on the 4:3 SlingPlayer, but vertically compressed on the TV

It dpends on what format you view most often and whether or not you want to watch on both displays at once as to what settings are right for you.

It's not as versatile as the options on an SA 4200HD or 8300HD, which can format the output independently for Component/HDMI and s-video/composite, but it's not a total loss.
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:30 AM   #318
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Not all outputs are active at all times.

Putting this in a separate reply as it's a completely separate topic.

I have found a situation in which not all outputs are active at the same time. In the following specific situation, I'm pretty sure all outputs are disabled:

- Attach a TV via HDMI.
- Attach another TV (or SlingBox) to s-video/composite output
- Tune the TiVo to a channel with a CCI flag of 0x02 (copy once). For me, this means BBC World on Cablevision, any of my SD Starz or Encores, and most of my SD HBOs.
- Turn "off" the TV (which for most TVs means Standby these days). Give it about two minutes.
- Attempt to watch the CCI 0x02 channel over s-video or composite. You'll get the TiVo warning, "Viewing is not permitted using the TiVo Digital Media Recorder... Try another TV input"

Now, go unplug the HDMI cable from the TV. Presto! You get your channel back on s-video/composite.

There are three "HDMI Status:" values I've seen in System Information:

- Not connected
- HDCP not enabled
- HDCP enabled

For some reason, when my TV is off, instead of going Not Connected, the HDMI Status: field goes to "HDCP not enabled". This cuts off output of CCI 0x02 channels via, I believe, all other outputs (I'm not dragging my 27" Sony with component input over to the 42" Sony to check this. TiVo can if they feel like it.) Channels set to CCI 0x00, like Comedy Central and Cartoon Network (and all my HD channels) are unaffected.

I don't get why CCI 0x02 would cause this problem. CCI 0x02 is "copy once" according to ANSI/SCTE 41 If Not Connected can show CCI 0x02 over s-video/composite, why can't it show if HDMI Status: is in the "HDCP not enabled" limbo state? Not connected is akin to being "not enabled" from a non-HDCP-capable output's point of view, isn't it?

My SA 8300HD via the same HDMI cable to the same TV with the same SlingBox connection? When the TV's off, the Slingbox still gets video from the 8300HD over composite, s-video, and RF.

I'll try to submit a bug to TiVo, but they've been somewhat unresponsive. I get the feeling they won't take my input unless I drag the two TVs to each other...

EDIT: Called TiVo today. They know about the HDMI problem! Woo-hoo! No word on if/when a fix may come out, but the engineers at least know about it. For now I'll just use Component.

Last edited by IceStorm : 10-08-2006 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 10-09-2006, 06:30 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by TiVoJerry
720p hybrid displays all HD video at 720p and all SD video at 480p.
1080i hybrid displays all HD video at 108i and all SD video at 480p

When using hybrid mode, you may experience flickering as the TV changes when the format swaps. This can also cause the channel to change slower as the S3 changes output settings.

I personally utilize 1080i fixed to avoid the slowdown and flickering, although it is possible that some video will suffer slight degradation during upconvertion, but it hasn't been much of an issue.
Do you agree, then, to achieve the best HD video image, one should choose 'native' as the TiVo video output? The slight degradation you refer to would be 720p being scaled to 1080i, right? In the '1080i fixed' mode, does 1080i material get passed-through, with no processing? Ultimately, I'm trying to learn of all the factors that play in the answer to, what S3 video output will produce the best image for my 1366x768 monitor? I believe the answer is native, but the native output produces the awful flicker. So it seems I need to choose the lesser of two evils... What chip(s) is/are used for video processing in the S3?

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Old 10-09-2006, 07:00 PM   #320
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Do you agree, then, to achieve the best HD video image, one should choose 'native' as the TiVo video output?
No, it's not that simple.

The issue is whether the TiVo or your TV has a better video scaler. Your TV is 720p; you should compare the picture using 720 fixed or native and see which you prefer. The fixed format won't have the flicker, but it may or may not produce a better picture for non-720p broadcasts.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:02 PM   #321
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No, it's not that simple.

The issue is whether the TiVo or your TV has a better video scaler. Your TV is 720p; you should compare the picture using 720 fixed or native and see which you prefer. The fixed format won't have the flicker, but it may or may not produce a better picture for non-720p broadcasts.
Exactly, that's why I asked what technology the S3 uses to deinterlace/scale, as I want to understand which hardware is best, the S3 or my monitor. To your point, is my monitor actually 720p (at 1366x768)? I understood it to be 768 native, so my monitor then, upon receiving a 720p image, must scale it to 768p. Is that accurate?
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:06 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by rtjones
Do you agree, then, to achieve the best HD video image, one should choose 'native' as the TiVo video output? The slight degradation you refer to would be 720p being scaled to 1080i, right? In the '1080i fixed' mode, does 1080i material get passed-through, with no processing? Ultimately, I'm trying to learn of all the factors that play in the answer to, what S3 video output will produce the best image for my 1366x768 monitor? I believe the answer is native, but the native output produces the awful flicker. So it seems I need to choose the lesser of two evils... When the video output is selected, what chip(s) is/are used for video processing in the S3?
Yes, in my opinion, native is the best format in regards to video quality. (Edited afterwards to say it's my opinion since Amnesia's answer is better than mine!)

Yes, you have to choose between video quality or the annoyance of the evil screen flicker. As you can see, I personally go with a lesser VQ as it is not as noticeable as frequent screen flicker. Someone with a better TV would likely not suffer the same affliction, at least not as often or as long.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:08 PM   #323
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Exactly, that's why I asked what technology the S3 uses to deinterlace/scale, as I want to understand which hardware is best, the S3 or my monitor.
"which hardware is best" is subjective. You need to compare a few different types of programs and decide for yourself.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:26 PM   #324
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Yes, in my opinion, native is the best format in regards to video quality. (Edited afterwards to say it's my opinion since Amnesia's answer is better than mine!)

Yes, you have to choose between video quality or the annoyance of the evil screen flicker. As you can see, I personally go with a lesser VQ as it is not as noticeable as frequent screen flicker. Someone with a better TV would likely not suffer the same affliction, at least not as often or as long.
One last question on this subject, Jerry, why choose 1080i fixed over 720p? I'm not suggesting 720p would provide a better image, just curious. Well, the difference is certainly minor. I've tested a 720p native image, in TiVo's output of 1) native, 2) 1080i fixed, and 3) 720p fixed, and I simply cannot see a difference. I realize that doesn't mean there isn't one, just that I cannot see it. So, that should be my answer right there, it's all relative to my experience. Thanks!
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:30 PM   #325
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Yes, in my opinion, native is the best format in regards to video quality. (Edited afterwards to say it's my opinion since Amnesia's answer is better than mine!)

.
Running native into a video processor like the DVDO VP50 is the way to go, looks spectacular.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:31 PM   #326
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"which hardware is best" is subjective. You need to compare a few different types of programs and decide for yourself.
I'm referring to metrics, measurable differences, that are not subjective. But, as you suggest, that measurable answer may not matter if my eyes cannot perceive it.
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:47 PM   #327
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One last question on this subject, Jerry, why choose 1080i fixed over 720p? I'm not suggesting 720p would provide a better image, just curious. Well, the difference is certainly minor. I've tested a 720p native image, in TiVo's output of 1) native, 2) 1080i fixed, and 3) 720p fixed, and I simply cannot see a difference. I realize that doesn't mean there isn't one, just that I cannot see it. So, that should be my answer right there, it's all relative to my experience. Thanks!
My 4-year old TV (no HDMI) has a separate component input for 720p than it does for 1080i. I don't want to keep switching the cables around when switching from one device to another through my A/V. Like I said, personal preference but mostly due to hardware limitation.....and it's a mess back there!
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:01 PM   #328
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Running native into a video processor like the DVDO VP50 is the way to go, looks spectacular.
I don't want to spend to much space on this subject, as it may be off-topic, but I've been curious about this very product for some time. Maybe not the VP50, but one of the DVDO products. Do you see an equally impressive difference in SD broadcast vs SD DVD vs 720p vs 1080i? (I think those are the 4 most common). Is it pretty awesome all the way around? I have a calibrated (just 3 days ago, in fact) Panasonic plasma (new in '05), and can't imagine an image better than network cable HD. Although I wouldn't bet against it! Look forward to your reply.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:31 AM   #329
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Running native into a video processor like the DVDO VP50 is the way to go, looks spectacular.
For $3000 the results should look SPECTACULAR!
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:39 AM   #330
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Just realized and then read here to confirm that the Recently Deleted folder isn't even included yet

C'mon TiVo... how hard is that?!
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