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Old 09-16-2006, 08:05 PM   #1
ckoble
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Charter & Series 3 Problems

I received my S3 a couple of days ago and scheduled an appointment today for CableCard installation from Charter Communications (Long Beach, Ca). The installer called me to ask what kind of TV the cards were to be installed in and I told him that it was a TiVo... he told me that TiVos were not supported. They only supported TVs. I convinced him to still come and "indulge" me. His supervisor called me and gave me the same story... I told him that I wanted them to come anyway.

So they show up and install the cards and they cannot acquire channels. I told him to leave the cards and I would troubleshoot myself.

Next I called TiVo, they indicated that the cards are not set up properly.

So I called Charter back and talked with a woman named Sophia. After spending about an hour on hold, she basically came back and said that the cards WERE set up properly and if I had a CableCard TV, they would prove it to me. The story they give is that the problem is with the TiVo and since TiVo was proprietary and they can't test it to make sure that the problem isn't the TiVo.

So now it has turned into a Charter blaming TiVo and TiVo blaming Charter.

Any ideas? Could this be Charter not wanting ts customers to use third party DVRs? Anyone else experience problems with Charter?
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:08 PM   #2
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TiVo is absolutely NOT proprietary. It is a CableLabs certified device. Cal them back and tell them that, tell them to look on their CableLabs approved list for model number TCD648250B

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Old 09-17-2006, 12:47 AM   #3
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Dan,

I spent a while telling them that this is CableLabs certified and that it is an FCC mandate that they provide cards that work in this device... they still come off as unwiling to help. I was told that if I wanted another technician to come out to troubleshoot this problem, it would cost me $50/ hour.

I just might march into the Charter office on Monday and have them explain to me in person why they won't support this unit. I'll keep you guys posted!
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:01 AM   #4
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Yes, please do ckoble. I have Charter and they messed up our account which ended up pushing back my installation. I'll have to wait until Friday so I am looking forward to your follow up. Good luck!!!
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:54 PM   #5
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Update: Just spoke with Ed a supervisor at the Charter Irwindale office who has relayed the following to me:

-Charter only supports TVs and does not support any other CC devices.
-They will schedule another appointment with me to "tell me in person that TiVo is not supported" and will not troubleshoot any device that is not theirs (even though the cablecard IS theirs) -- when I asked what the appointment was for then -- he said it was to "pick up the their cablecards"
-Claims that the technical supervisor has a series 3 tivo (retail purchase) and knows that it does not work. (which sounds like a load of crap since he said he had it 2 weeks ago)

ANY help from TiVo to set Carter straight would be greatly appreciated. From my point of view this is beginning to sound like a broken record, I tell Charter that they are required to support this... they say TiVo is not supported and that their cards only work in TVs. I say if it works in a TV it should work in the TiVo. They say... obviously not because it is not working. I say that the cards are not configured or set up properly, they say that the problem is TiVo and that it is not compatible with the cablecards which they use (SA PowerKey Conditional Access Module).

I'm at a loss. Should I send my TiVo back? Is this hopeless?
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:58 PM   #6
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I cannot believe the load of BS that Charter is giving you. Seeing how much trouble you are getting from them is also making me worry about my install on Friday. Hopefully the Alhambra office will be better. Don't know...

Anyone else have Charter and has had their CCs work on their Tivos?
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:09 PM   #7
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This is such a crock of sh*t! They are required by law to support ANY device that is certified for use with CableCARDs by CableLabs. all them back and tell them if they refuse to install the cards in the TiVo your next call will be to the FCC.

You might also try calling the TiVo help line and seeing if they will get involved on your behalf.

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Old 09-17-2006, 01:12 PM   #8
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I have already contacted TiVo (yesterday) and they tell me that they cannot do anything.
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:14 PM   #9
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OMG this is full of sh$t! If Tivo doesn't help and Charter refuses to install, maybe your best bet would be to call the FCC and let them know what Charter is doing. By law they have to support the CCs. How about also calling the BBB?
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:26 PM   #10
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Thumbs down don't take that for an answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckoble
I have already contacted TiVo (yesterday) and they tell me that they cannot do anything.
try TiVoJerry's suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoJerry
Call in to our support line and one of our agents will perform a 3-way call with you and your provider.

Additionally, please take a moment to fill out the form at http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr_cc.asp to let us know what your CableCARD experience has been like. We will likely follow up with the provider from a different avenue as well, but it is not a substitute for having one of our agents on the phone with you.
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:35 PM   #11
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/subscribe. I want to hear how this one turns out. This is one of the more egregious violations of the FCC laws. What kind of teeth does the law have to address this sort of violation? Anyone know?
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:38 PM   #12
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Possibly fines, but I have no idea how much. Hopefully it would be enough to hurt Charter.
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:41 PM   #13
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Check on your cable bill. I have Adelphia, but mine lists a phone number for the local franchise autority. If they won't give me cablecards I plan to:

1- turn in my cable DVR and cancel all movie channels(I should still be able to get my digital channels)
2- notify my local cable franchise authority
3- call the FCC

Part of the FCC cablecard rules

...(b) No later than July 1, 2004, cable
operators shall support unidirectional
digital cable products, as defined in
§ 15.123 of this chapter, through the provisioning
of Point of Deployment modules
(PODs) and services, as follows:...

and furthur along...

...(3) Cable operators shall ensure, as to
all digital cable systems, an adequate
supply of PODs that comply with the
standards specified in paragraph (b)(2)
of this section to ensure convenient access
to such PODS by customers....

Even if I eventually get a cablecard, I'm thinking of notifying the FCC about the lack of "convenient access".
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:26 PM   #14
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HOLY CRAP. For weeks, I've been stuffing cash into an envelope that has TIVO written in big black letters on it, just drooling for the day next month when I can get rid of my piece of crap Motorola Moxi box from Charter. And now, there's a chance that Charter will screw me??

Seriously, if anyone has an S3 with Charter and is all goose-pimply happy about it, please chime in!! I need to know if this is going to work!

Thanks!
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:29 PM   #15
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Don't worry about it. Charter has to support it. They don't have a choice.
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfc
Check on your cable bill. I have Adelphia, but mine lists a phone number for the local franchise autority. If they won't give me cablecards I plan to:

<snip>

I called Adelphia up today and spoke with a very nice CS agent that hooked me up with the full digital package for 3 months for $39.95 (instead of the normal $95.00 or so) because I was coming from DTV.

Ordered 4 cable cards for the 2 Series 3s that I should have sometime next week. She did try and charge me an extra 19.95 because of the "extra" room they would have to install (they charge extra for installs in more than three rooms). Once I explained that it was really only a 2 room install she was fine with it.

Cable company will be here 9/26.

As a side not she did try and talk me into getting thir DVR because it was so much better. Once I explained that I had just laid down $1700.00 for 2 TiVo Series 3 DMRs and that's why I wanted the cable cards she relented.

I wish everyone experience was as easy and trouble free as mine was.
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:43 PM   #17
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I just had an online support chat with a Charter rep, "Amit." He said there was no way Charter would support the device or come out and do the install. However, he said I could order the cable cards and install them and run the setup myself. I asked if there would be any negative impact to my cable service, and he really couldn't answer that. He just said (repeatedly) that Charter cannot support other companies' devices so he didn't know. All he knew for sure is that it would not allow me to have PPV, VOD, or their channel guide (which we already know).

So, if I get the cable cards myself, I shouldn't have any trouble getting an S3 set up, right? Is there more to it than sticking the cards in and running the onscreen setup? Any super secret "cable guy" magic needed beyond that?
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waharris007
HOLY CRAP. For weeks, I've been stuffing cash into an envelope that has TIVO written in big black letters on it, just drooling for the day next month when I can get rid of my piece of crap Motorola Moxi box from Charter. And now, there's a chance that Charter will screw me??

Seriously, if anyone has an S3 with Charter and is all goose-pimply happy about it, please chime in!! I need to know if this is going to work!
I wouldn't worry about it either. I called my local Charter to ask about a CableCARD install and they couldn't have cared less what I was installing it into. This appears to be an isolated problem with the OP's local Charter branch.

And for the record I am 99.9% certain that this problem is due to the cards not being initialized correctly. The reason I say this is because the S3 uses two seperate hosts for each card. WHich means if there was a hardware defect, in either the cards themselves or the TiVo, it would be highly unlikely that it would effect both cards. The OP just needs to get the guys at his local branch to take their heads out of their a$$es and actually help him fix the problem.

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Old 09-17-2006, 04:47 PM   #19
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I absolutely agree Dan. Don't know why his local Charter is being such an a$$ about this. I don't know why some cable companies are like this. Just because we don't want their box, doesn't mean that people have to suffer with the CC installs. It's absolutely ridiculous!
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Old 09-17-2006, 04:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waharris007
I just had an online support chat with a Charter rep, "Amit." He said there was no way Charter would support the device or come out and do the install. However, he said I could order the cable cards and install them and run the setup myself. I asked if there would be any negative impact to my cable service, and he really couldn't answer that. He just said (repeatedly) that Charter cannot support other companies' devices so he didn't know. All he knew for sure is that it would not allow me to have PPV, VOD, or their channel guide (which we already know).

So, if I get the cable cards myself, I shouldn't have any trouble getting an S3 set up, right? Is there more to it than sticking the cards in and running the onscreen setup? Any super secret "cable guy" magic needed beyond that?
Again total BS! They are required by law to install the CableCARDs into the TiVo just like it were a TV.

That being said installing CableCARDs is very simple....

1) Write down the serial number from the first card.
2) Insert that card into the bottom slot of the TiVo
3) Wait for black MMI screen to appear
4) Write down the Host and Data numbers that appear on that screen.
5) Repeat for card #2, inserting into top slot
6) Call the cable company and give them the information you wrote down for each card.
7) Wait about 10 minutes then test each card using the "Test Channels" item under the CableCARD menu.

If the Test Channels fails call the cable company back and make sure they have the information entered correctly, then have them re-hit the cards. Provided neither of the cards is defective this should work and you should be good to go.

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Old 09-17-2006, 05:18 PM   #21
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Thanks, Dan. When I'm ready to pull the trigger next month, I'll probably just call and ask for a cable card install without going into Tivo specifics unless I have to. Worst case, I guess, will be me having to do it myself. Again, no big deal; just annoying.

Could activating the cards after I insert them into the Tivo fall under their blanket refusal to "support" the Tivo? (I'm a computer geek, not so much a cable geek)
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Old 09-17-2006, 05:23 PM   #22
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Well they're useless unless activated, so if they refuse to activate them then a call to the FCC or local cable franchise authority would be in order.

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Old 09-17-2006, 05:49 PM   #23
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeby
I wish everyone experience was as easy and trouble free as mine was.

I don't think you're out of the woods yet Greeby. When they get to your house the cable guy may freak and not know what to do when he sees that those cards are not going directly into tv's. You spoke to a person behind a desk. The cable guy won't give a crap about what that person said.

I hope it works out for you though. I'm with Charter. Eventually, I will be buying one of the Series 3's too -- when the price goes down, the missing features are brought back, the bugs are fixed, and they have the newer chipsets in them. Hopefully by then this whole cable card issue will be sorted out. Perhaps by then a newer version of the Series 3 will come out that supports CableCard 2.0. But the cable companies will probably crap all over Tivo then too.

Somebody needs to get a hold of someone at Attack of the Show or John D'vorak or something. Maybe they can be a good squeeky wheel for everyone.
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Old 09-17-2006, 05:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeby
I called Adelphia up today and spoke with a very nice CS agent that hooked me up with the full digital package for 3 months for $39.95 (instead of the normal $95.00 or so) because I was coming from DTV.

Ordered 4 cable cards for the 2 Series 3s that I should have sometime next week. She did try and charge me an extra 19.95 because of the "extra" room they would have to install (they charge extra for installs in more than three rooms). Once I explained that it was really only a 2 room install she was fine with it.

Cable company will be here 9/26.

As a side not she did try and talk me into getting thir DVR because it was so much better. Once I explained that I had just laid down $1700.00 for 2 TiVo Series 3 DMRs and that's why I wanted the cable cards she relented.

I wish everyone experience was as easy and trouble free as mine was.


Thanks,

I'm glad to hear that things can go smoothly. I know that this will eventually be cleared up, but it does get frustrating.

By the way, did you call up the normal 1-888-683-1000 Adelphia Customer Service line? When navigating the system did you select "add services" ? I would really appreciate any tips. I really hate getting mad at the CSRs, they're only doing what they are told to.

Again, thanks for giving me a little hope,

Carl
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Old 09-17-2006, 07:22 PM   #25
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Charter NOT at fault

I also use Charter to provide my television services. I called the Charter office a few days ago and they said Cable Cards take a few days to deliver. They said the Cards had to be programmed for my SPECIFIC DEVICE. The person I spoke to said she has never heard of TiVo at all. Thus, the TiVo programming code may simply not be in their database. It is NOT the fault of Charter.

I presently have a Sony HD 32" TV using a Charter installed Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD. It has almost the same capacity as the Tivo S3 but the software is not as good. I also have 2 SD RCA 32" TV's one of which has my TiVo S2 attached. I just ordered a second Sony HD 32" TV and will use a 2nd SA 8300 HD on that as well and just retire my S2 which has a lifetime subscription.

I am forced to wait for some time and just wait to see if Charter gets the TiVo S3 into their Cable Card database. I will judge from postings on this forum as to when Charter can correctly program the Cable Cards for a TiVo S3.

Finally, that Sony BRAVIA KDL-32S2000 only costs $ 1,179.00 from Amazon. The TiVo S3 cost $ 1,000 including the lifetime subscription upgrade. That is far too expensive when compared to the 32" HD TV, itself. I also need a price reduction on that Tivo S3.

Last edited by MitchW : 09-17-2006 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Add a statement
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Old 09-17-2006, 07:42 PM   #26
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MItch... I can't see why you do not put any fault with Charter. Their cards are not working in the S3, so not having "codes" in their databse is what is preventinig service from being delivered. They came out (against their will) installed the cards and the split.

At this point THEY do not wish to support the TiVo. End of story. I will call my franchise authority which happens to be the City of Long Beach Video Cmmunications Department to get them to push Charter into action -- who knows how if this will be successful. But you gotta start somewhere.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:21 PM   #27
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Patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckoble
MItch... I can't see why you do not put any fault with Charter. Their cards are not working in the S3, so not having "codes" in their databse is what is preventinig service from being delivered. They came out (against their will) installed the cards and the split.

At this point THEY do not wish to support the TiVo. End of story. I will call my franchise authority which happens to be the City of Long Beach Video Cmmunications Department to get them to push Charter into action -- who knows how if this will be successful. But you gotta start somewhere.
Ckoble,

Just have PATIENCE. I believe that eventually their database will be updated in the normal course of business. It could be one or two months away. At a minimum they will have to notify their branches that such a company as TiVo exists. Right now only we on this forum know about this.

No regulatory authority can force technology changes. There is a learning curve for everyone. We all will just have to WAIT and hopefully, by the time their database is updated, the S3 price will be reduced by rebates or in some other way. The database update may not be as easy as you think. There could be complex entries required which may not yet even be worked out. The entries may be DIFFERENT for every Cable Provider.

Some Cable Providers may take longer than others to make the proper entries. Others may have Central System characteristics prohibiting them from ever being able to make the proper entries without substantial and costly upgrades.

I would advise everyone to FIRST contact their Cable Provider and make sure they support the TiVo S3 with the properly coded Cable Cards. I would never blame the Cable Providers. All of this was thrust upon them and we do not know if they were ever notified or supplied with the proper information.

Last edited by MitchW : 09-17-2006 at 10:58 PM. Reason: Correct punctuation and add words
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:24 PM   #28
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There are no codes in a database. The information they need comes from the cards themselves and from the TiVo. The cable company has no choice, they have to support cable labs certified devices.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:14 PM   #29
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MitchW says
"Just have PATIENCE. I believe that eventually their database will be updated in the normal course of business. It could be one or two months away. At a minimum they will have to notify their branches that such a company as TiVo exists. Right now only we on this forum know about this."

Mitch... if I would have taken your advice and asked them if they supported TiVo, they would not have even considered an install in the first place.

Why should we be satisfied with one or two months to correct this issue as "normal course of business"? I'm the one footing the bill for cable tv service. I also don't understand what you mean when you say "notify branches that TiVo exists?" Believe me, the cable companies know about TiVo and TiVo has even taken ads out in trade rags telling MSOs to expect high demand for cable cards.

I would be satisfied if they told me that they are working on the problem, but they say that there is no problem and frankly, I don't care even if it costs them $$$ to implement this (which it doesn't)... they are required to provide this service according to FCC regs.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:49 PM   #30
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Charter's CHOICE

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckoble
MitchW says
"Just have PATIENCE. I believe that eventually their database will be updated in the normal course of business. It could be one or two months away. At a minimum they will have to notify their branches that such a company as TiVo exists. Right now only we on this forum know about this."

Mitch... if I would have taken your advice and asked them if they supported TiVo, they would not have even considered an install in the first place.

Why should we be satisfied with one or two months to correct this issue as "normal course of business"? I'm the one footing the bill for cable tv service. I also don't understand what you mean when you say "notify branches that TiVo exists?" Believe me, the cable companies know about TiVo and TiVo has even taken ads out in trade rags telling MSOs to expect high demand for cable cards.

I would be satisfied if they told me that they are working on the problem, but they say that there is no problem and frankly, I don't care even if it costs them $$$ to implement this (which it doesn't)... they are required to provide this service according to FCC regs.
Ckoble,

I doubt if any FCC regulations require IMMEDIATE compliance with new technology. It may take Charter SIX MONTHS to comply. You and I are certainly not aware of the technical requirements or the learning curves of their employees.

If I invent a new Convertor Box in my basement tomorrow and place it on sale the next day, I really doubt if any Cable Provider will support it for YEARS.

The best approach is to just WAIT until Charter tells us they have solved the problems and they can support the new TiVo S3. No amount of complaints to Charter, TiVo, the FCC or Congress will speed up this process.

The S2 worked with the Cable Convertor boxes so the Cable Providors were not involved at all. The S3 uses Cable Cards - another questionable technology since most TV manufacturers are PHASING THEM OUT.

In the meantime Scientific Atlanta may introduce new software which can duplicate most of TiVo's advantages. Then the whole problem is over.
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