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Old 09-28-2004, 05:13 PM   #1
Mike B
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Question First-Run Only / Conflict SP Question

Quick question for someone more knowledgeable than me...

(...and apologies if its been asked before - I couldn't find an answer after doing a searching)

If I have a "first-run only" season pass set up for episodes of a programme which is then repeated later in the week, and the actual first showing is not recorded due to a conflict with a higher priority SP, will a repeat showing get recorded (or will it get ignored as it is technically not the first showing, even though it is a new/not-previously-recorded episode) ??
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Old 09-28-2004, 05:31 PM   #2
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Don't worry. It will get recorded. (I've said it before, I like the easy ones )
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Old 09-29-2004, 03:13 AM   #3
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Maybe this is covered by the 28-day rule? i.e. Try to record once and once only if repeats occur within 28 days of the original air date.
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Old 09-29-2004, 06:32 AM   #4
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Sad I know - but I have a FR SP set for Coronation Street on both ITV1 and ITV2.

Generally only the ITV1 appears in the ToDo as the ITV2 versions are repeats. But when the ITV1 version clashes - the ITV2 version then kicks in automatically.
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Old 09-29-2004, 06:50 AM   #5
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Hmm but this happens with a normal SP - it's the 28-day rule that controls that behaviour not whether or not its FRO . In the Corrie example (I have two too) there are never any episodes broadcast on ITV1 or 2 that aren't "first runs" (>28 days after OAD) anyway.

I do have the problem though of ITV2 episodes being recorded even when I have the other ITV1 episode already. On several series but mainly Corrie. This is with correct guide data too - TMS ids match exactly
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:05 AM   #6
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I never get any ITV2 recorded as duplicates - although some do appear occasionally in the ToDo list - as ITV2 schedules appear before ITV1.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle
there are never any episodes broadcast on ITV1 or 2 that aren't "first runs" (>28 days after OAD) anyway.
I'm confused now...

Does this mean that any showing of the episode within 28 days of the OAD is still considered as a 'First-Run', and the 28-day-rule is what is stopping duplicates being recorded?
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike B
I'm confused now...

Does this mean that any showing of the episode within 28 days of the OAD is still considered as a 'First-Run', and the 28-day-rule is what is stopping duplicates being recorded?
That's the way I've always understood it.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:43 AM   #9
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In fact First Run only stops episodes that are more than 28 days old being recorded - thats it.

Repeats are handled automagically.
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Old 09-29-2004, 04:20 PM   #10
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hum..can someone clarify just wot tivo means by first run and repeat.....from the above it seems that first run means u havent recored it before..it doesnt literally mean the first showing of the episode..for instance if i wanted a season of freinds:

setting: first run and repeats means all instances of the show will be recorded even if i have the same episode already

setting: first run only means all occurences of friends i dont already have will be recorded.

if that is so when would you ever want to record repeats? whats that option for?
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Old 09-29-2004, 04:28 PM   #11
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I wasn't too sure of this, but it seems that:

"First-Run" means an episode that is shown within 28 days of its OAD (Original Airing Date)
"Repeat" means an episode that is shown after 28 days of its OAD.

So in your example of a season of "Friends", setting a "First-Run-Only" season pass will record every new episode of the series being shown within 28 days of the OAD. Once an episode has been recorded, it will not be recorded again, as the "28-day-no-repeat-rule" that normally applies will stop future showings of that episode (within 28 days) from being recorded.

So if the actual first showing is not recorded due to conflicts, then the first unconflicting showing of that episode will be recorded and all future ones (for 28 days at least) will be ignored.

The "First-Run and Repeats" option is so if an entire series is re-shown after a year or so (possibly in th erun up to a brand new series) as is often the case, you can catch all episodes should you have missed the entire series the first time around. These episodes would technically be repeats, as the OAD would be 12 months (or however long) ago. The 28-day-rule would then stop multiple recordings of the same 'repeat' episode (should there be any).

Hope that makes sense (and is correct - someone will soon shout if I've got the wrong end of the wrong stick.........)
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Old 09-29-2004, 04:39 PM   #12
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this is what i find confusing...for instance all episodes of freinds have been aired before..so wot exactly is the oad...since they would all be like years after the true oad.....

if i start the pass now it showing them as first runs....so its not clear to me what flags a first run and what flags a repeat..as far as i can see its just your own setup..so if i start aseason pass all episodes are recorded except double showings..so it seems if a repeat becomes the first run i.e cause i didnt record the first showing then the repeat is now the first showing.... blimey..im so confused....


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Old 09-29-2004, 05:05 PM   #13
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First run is only there to solve a very specific problem and normally shouldn't be changed from its "First run and repeats" setting.

The term "First run and repeats" is a bad one, so to make life easier forget it says that, and pretend it says "New and old series" (and option "First Run" would then say "New series only").

New series are the current ones - so for example episodes of The Bill on ITV1. Old series are ones that aired months or years ago, for example The Bill on UK Gold.

Repeats are handled completely separately and are nothing to do with this setting. TiVo handles them automatically and it is not possible to change the behaviour. The behaviour is to only record episodes that have not been recorded already in the last 28 days, or that are not already in your Now Playing list.

The only time you'd need to change the First Run setting is when one channel airs both a new, and an old series at the same time. For example Sky One show both the new series of The Simpsons, and also show the old series. Selecting "First Run" in this example would record only those episodes which are part of the new series. TiVo's automatic repeat handling would then also filter out episodes which it has already recorded from the new series.
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Old 09-29-2004, 05:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by ashagplz
this is what i find confusing...for instance all episodes of freinds have been aired before..so wot exactly is the oad...since they would all be like years after the true oad.....

if i start the pass now it showing them as first runs....so its not clear to me what flags a first run and what flags a repeat..as far as i can see its just your own setup..so if i start aseason pass all episodes are recorded except double showings..so it seems if a repeat becomes the first run i.e cause i didnt record the first showing then the repeat is now the first showing.... blimey..im so confused....

A First Run Only season pass for Friends should never record anything - as you say, they are all old. The OAD is the first time broadcast in the UK or Ireland - irrespective of channel. If they've been on Sky or E4 or BBC 3 then that's the OAD, even if you only have terrestrial. It's not determined by your set up at all.

TiVo will never record the same show twice in a 28 day period - that is irrespective of the FRO/FR & Repeat setting and cannot be altered.

Basically, unless you are absolutely certain that you know what you are trying to do (and Simpsons on Sky One is one of the few examples of a use of it), never use First Run Only, it'll end in tears.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:32 PM   #15
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Big Grin 28 day rule and First Run

Hi, I was asked to provide an answer from TiVo. I hope this helps.

The Original Air Date (OAD) is meant to be the date that the program was first broadcast on any channel in the UK. There have been a number of errors over time with US dates being used, but we believe that this is not currently a problem.

A "First Run" season pass will record the selected program, if the OAD is within the last 28 days and the program has not already been recorded. So, (OAD + 28) is the time window that a program can be recorded as first run.

Additionally, the "28 day no re-record" rule is enforced for any specific episodic program (EP records), movies (MV records), sporting event (SP record) or one-time airing showing record (SH record). Programs of these types will only be recorded once within the 28 day period. This feature prevents the same program from being recorded multiple times.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:01 PM   #16
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Re: 28 day rule and First Run

Quote:
Originally posted by TiVoRich
Hi, I was asked to provide an answer from TiVo. I hope this helps.
Thanks, TiVoRich. I added a link to your post to the top answers sticky over in the Help section. (It already had a link to a previous explanation from Gary on this subject.)

Since another poster asked about it recently, I'll point out that the list of programme types covered by the 28-day rule does not include manual recordings (with manually entered start/stop times).

Also, there are some additional rules to cover what happens if original air dates are missing and such.
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Old 09-30-2004, 03:47 AM   #17
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If we're going for acompleteist thread I've never seen a SP record (sporting event) in the UK listings.
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Old 09-30-2004, 03:58 AM   #18
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We've seen a lot of sporting non-events, but then that's due to the lack of state sponsorship.
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Old 09-30-2004, 07:26 AM   #19
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Re: Re: 28 day rule and First Run

Good to see you posting again TivoRich


Quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
Also, there are some additional rules to cover what happens if original air dates are missing and such.
I didn't think it was possible for the OAD to be missing? Series with generic data get an OAD which is the same for every episode. Perhaps this isn't shown on the TiVo UI?
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Old 09-30-2004, 07:29 AM   #20
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Re: Re: Re: 28 day rule and First Run

Quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle
I didn't think it was possible for the OAD to be missing? Series with generic data get an OAD which is the same for every episode. Perhaps this isn't shown on the TiVo UI?
I'm pretty sure that's exactly it, it's there in MFS but doesn't display on the additional data screen in the UI
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Old 10-02-2005, 11:12 AM   #21
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Ok guys I'm confused. If according to TivoRich's explanation a First Run programme is only recoded if we are withing 28 days of OAD why is my Tivo trying to record episode that have OAD of 1998 with First Run Only set on the Season Pass?

e.g.

Will & Grace
Episode Title
Episode Description Hit US sitcom about two best friends, one straight, one gay.
Episode Number
Duration 0:30
Original Air Date Mon 21st Sep 1998
Actors Eric McCormack, Debra Messing, Sean Hayes, Megan Mullally
Guest Stars Ken Marino, Paul Fitzgerald
Exec Producers David Kohan, Max Mutchnick, James Burrows, Alex Herschlag, Dave Flebotte
Genres Comedy, Sitcom
Type Series
Channel 113 LIVING1
Showing Date Tue 4th Oct 20:00
Expiration Date Thu 6th Oct 20:00
Deletion Date
Cancel Date
Cancel Reason
Quality Medium
Selection Type Season Pass
State To Do
Size 590 MB (estimated)

Ta Neil
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Old 10-02-2005, 12:01 PM   #22
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It's because these episodes only have 'generic' programme details, including OAD.

Quote:
Episode Description: Hit US sitcom about two best friends, one straight, one gay.
Also note the lack of an episode title.
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:32 PM   #23
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Okay Correct me if I'm wrong but what I read on the TIVO site, the information here is not fully correct.

FIRST RUN = programs where the Original Air Date = the date of the recording, meaning its the first time its being shown.

REPEATS = Any Episode that has NOT ALREADY BEEN RECORDED in the last 28 days. Doesn't matter if its the same year or prior year as the Original Air Date. It tracks which episodes you have recorded in the last 28 days and if it has already recorded one with the same OAD as this it will not record it again. This means if the show is reshown again 31 days after you first recorded it, it will record again (being longer than the 28 days rule)

ALL EPISODES = just what it sounds like.. record all episodes regardless of duplications, does not check OAD.

This was *my* understanding form the Tivo website.

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Old 03-14-2006, 05:26 PM   #24
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This is correct for US series 2 Tivo's, over here in the UK we only have series 1 models and rules are different.

We can choose between:

FIRST RUN is any episode where the flag "IsEpisode" is set to "True/Yes" and the OAD is within 28 days of the date of broadcast AND any episode where the flag "IsEpisode" is set to "False/No" regardless of date

FIRST RUN and REPEATS any episode regardless of "IsEpisode" status and OAD

The 28 day rule applies to both (I.e. not already in Now Playing or already recorded within 28 days of broadcast date or deleted from Now Playing within the last 28 days)
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