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Old 11-14-2003, 11:35 AM   #1
ZikZak
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The Watching-Live-While-Recording-Something-Else Thread

someone needed to write this article, so here goes.

One of the most asked questions on the TiVo Help Forum is whether you can watch one program live while the single-tuner standalone TiVo records something else. The answer is essentially, "yes," there are setups to do this, but the real answer is that there are good reasons not to set up the TiVo this way, and the question itself arises from a misunderstanding of the way TiVo is different from a VCR.

With the introduction of the new Dual Tuner tivo, you can use the DT to watch one program live (with tivo trickplay) and simultaneously record another channel. Some new DT users have been asking how to watch one program live while recoding two others. I'll talk about DTs further on... for now, I'm talking about single-tuner tivos.

Folks ask if they can watch something live while TiVo records something else because they are used to the way their VCR operates. The VCR cannot play back a recording while it records something else, it is difficult to program correctly, and is not random-access. In other words, to get to a program you want to watch, you have to fast-forward or rewind the tape to the beginning of the program before you can start watching it. As a result, people generally use the VCR to either (a) record a low-priority program that is in conflict with a highly desirable program that will be watched live, or (b) archive programs they really like. A VCR user watches TV live most of the time, and a recording only rarely.

TiVo is different in a critical way. Unlike the VCR, TiVo can play any recording while it simultaneously records something else. It is also very easy to program, knows when repeats are shown, automatically resolves programming conflicts, and is random-access. Programming is so easy that most TiVo users record everything they ever want to watch, and only rarely watch TV live. This way, you can watch TV "how you want, when you want." TiVo users watch one thing while recording something else all the time--- by watching recorded programs while TiVo records other things in the background.

There are ways to bypass the cable past the TiVo so that you can let it record something while you watch something else live. But in reality there is rarely any need to do this, and while watching truly Live TV, you don't get the benefit of TiVo's trickplay features and the ability to skip commercials.

Firstly, let's say that you want to watch program A and program B which are on at different times. You do this by setting Season Passes for both A and B, and then watching them at your leisure later. No problem.

Now let's say you want to watch programs C and D which are on at the same time. In the vast majority of cases, either C or D (let's say D) will be repeated later in the day or week, usually at 4 in the morning. Again, no problem. Set Season Passes for both programs, and give C a higher priority than D in the Season Pass Manager. TiVo will record C when the programs are in conflict, and then pickup the repeat of program D later on. You then watch them both at your leisure. For more info on the ways to avoid program conflicts, see this TiVo FAQ.

The only case when you would ever need to watch-Live-while-recording is the case when you need to watch programs E and F which are on at the same time and never repeated. In 2 years of owning a TiVo, I have never come across this problem. I watch mainly PBS and premium movie channels, however. If you watch much more commercial network TV than I do, your mileage may vary. The "correct" solution would be to get a two-tuner DirecTivo.

Some users prefer to watch sporting events and sometimes news live also. However, if you record these events ahead of time and start watching a half-hour or so into them, you can skip commercials and catch up to Live just at the end of the game.

The other situation in which watching-live-while-recording might be necessary is channel surfing. Some people like to channel surf for its own sake, but it's maddeningly slow with TiVo. For me, the combination of TiVo's Suggestions and the TiVo Channel Guide more than makes up for the lack of time-wasting channel surfing. But if you are a diehard channel surfer, you may need to watch-live-while-recording.

OK, so you might be able to come up with other scenarios when you might want to watch-live-while-recording, for instance watching a program when the TiVo is already full of programming! But the point is that it's not usually a pressing issue, and is necessary much less often than with a VCR.

There are also reasons why setting up the TiVo to do this might be more trouble than it's worth, too. We've already seen how doing this prevents you from using trickplay and skipping commercials on the live program. But also, setups that allow watching-Live-while-recording always involve splitting the cable, and this tends to degrade the signal into the TiVo. Because the standalone TiVo uses MPEG compression, it is very sensitive to defects in the incoming signal. Thus you want the best possible signal input for the TiVo. If a splitter degrades that signal, your TiVo picture might end up looking bad. Even if the signal looks perfectly fine directly to the TV, TiVo can have a problem with it. It is possible to improve the signal quality to the TiVo in this situation with a $20-$50 line amplifier from Radio Shack, so it's not an overriding issue. Still, $50 is $50.

The normal setup for this is Coax cable from the Wall -> Splitter, then

Splitter Out #1 -> TV RF IN, and
Splitter Out #2 -> Cable Box -> TiVo -> TV VIDEO IN

Using S-Video cables is preferable to RCA cables, and RCA is preferable to coax. (See TiVo's Diagrams.) This setup will allow TiVo to watch all available channels, while you watch analog cable channels live. If you wish to set up to watch all digital channels live, you will need to buy another decoder and setup:
Splitter Out #1 -> New Cable Box -> TV .
You will also need to "tent" the TiVo's cable box, allowing it to receive only commands from the TiVo's IR blasters, and preventing it from receiving commands sent from your cable remote intended for the second box. You will also need to cover up TiVo's "Big Eye" which is also an IR blaster, to prevent it from interfering with the new "watching live" cable box.

To add a VCR, use TiVo's multiple outputs to setup:
Code:
Splitter Out #1 -> VCR RF IN -> TV RF IN, and
Splitter Out #2 -> Cable Box -> TiVo -> VCR LINE 1 IN -> TV VIDEO IN 1
                                 |
                                 |--> TV VIDEO IN 2
This will allow the VCR to record analog cable as normal, and archive TiVo-recorded programs when it is tuned to "LINE."

Alternatively, if you use an A/V receiver, set up
Splitter Out #2 -> Cable Box -> TiVo -> Receiver VCR 1 IN.

The only other way to watch-live-while-recording is to use antenna only or cable without a cable box. You wire the cable from the wall to TiVo's RF in, then TiVo's RF out to the TV. You can then put the TiVo in Standby mode (Messages and Setup -> Standby), the equivalent of a VCR's "TV/VCR" button. You will be able to use the TV's tuner to watch live whatever you like while TiVo uses its internal tuner to record whatever you've asked it to.

Watching One and Recording Two With the DT Tivo
With the Standalone DT tivo, the standard setup is always:
Code:
Cable from wall -> Splitter

Splitter Out #1 -> TiVo RF IN 
Splitter Out #2 -> Cable Box -> TiVo Svideo/RCA IN

Tivo RF OUT -> TV RF IN
Tivo Video OUT -> TV Video IN.
with some adjustments for VCRs or A/V Receivers if you have them. For daily usage on the DT tivo, you should be watching all TV (live and recorded) though the tivo, with the TV set to receive its VIDEO input. If you need to watch one while recording two (in other words, if you have **THREE** programs that air simultaneously and never repeat), then you can use standby mode. Set the DT Tivo in standby, and then pick up your TV remote to tune a third live basic cable station.


Summary: you can watch Live TV (without trickplay or commercial skipping) while TiVo records something else, but this is not the pressing issue it is with a VCR. The setup for this would be the same as the setup for your VCR. However, it is hardly ever necessary or desirable because with TiVo you can watch one recording (with trickplay and commercial skipping) while recording something else.

Last edited by ZikZak : 06-07-2006 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 11-14-2003, 12:52 PM   #2
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Give 'em hell!

Maybe someone should link to this post from the FAQ entry about it. Not that anyone reads the FAQ's. Well put though.
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Old 11-14-2003, 02:54 PM   #3
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My solution to wanting to watch something in conflict with something else recorded where neither is repeated is to get another TiVo.

At present, of all the splits I do, not one is connected to my VCR.
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Old 11-14-2003, 03:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by phone1
Give 'em hell!
Thanks

Ya think it'll help?
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Old 11-14-2003, 03:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZikZak
Thanks

Ya think it'll help?
It's nicely written and I appreciate your effort. But, given how often threads are started on topics either in the TiVo manual, the FAQ, or in frequent rotation on these boards, do you want to hazard a guess?
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Old 11-14-2003, 03:54 PM   #6
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Should mention standby mode as an alternative to splitting for people with cable but no cable box.
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Old 11-14-2003, 08:14 PM   #7
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Standby Mode info added.
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Old 12-02-2003, 05:25 PM   #8
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I have a frequent need to split my signal because my wife is a heavy user of the 'Save to VCR' option. Archiving to VCR ties up the TiVO keeping me out of the Now Playing Menu. If I want to watch TV, then, I have to use the TV's own tuner since I can't get to Now Playing. Hence, I have and need a splitter.
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Old 12-02-2003, 07:01 PM   #9
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Until I can afford a second TIVO, watching live tv on Saturdays and Sundays durring football season has become a necessary evil.
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Old 12-27-2003, 11:02 PM   #10
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This is a big help. I needed a way to pass off air HDTV signals to my Mits HDTV. Nothing except a splitter was mentioned in the manual.
Thanks
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Old 12-28-2003, 02:05 AM   #11
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Nice article -

Cable source to 2-way splitter. One cable to cable box and then to TiVo. The other cable direct to the TV.

On my setup, Tivo gets source from the cable box for all our digital channels-

If I want to watch LIVE TV above analog channels while TiVo is recording, it would appear that I need another cable box, keeping the other blinded as per the TiVo setup.

This evening my wife wanted to watch a digital channel, while TiVo was recording. We were unable to do this as the LIVE analog feed comes direct into the TV without the cable box to see the other digital channels.

Any thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated


while TiVo is recording
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Old 12-28-2003, 11:15 AM   #12
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A cable box is needed to decode digital channels, and cable boxes will only output one channel at a time. So, if you want to watch one digital channel and record another, there is no way around needing two cable boxes. However, if you want to watch only analog channels or (a tiny number of forum members have reported doing this) record only analog channels, then only a single cable box is needed.
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Old 12-29-2003, 10:50 AM   #13
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Added some info on channel surfing. And what the heck.... <bump>
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Old 12-29-2003, 12:48 PM   #14
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My wife loves listening to soundscapes(digital music channel 432 Comcast Harrisburg, PA). I've decided to record a couple of hours of it for her so she can listen to the music while Tivo is recording other stuff.
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Old 12-29-2003, 12:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by christopher710
My wife loves listening to soundscapes(digital music channel 432 Comcast Harrisburg, PA). I've decided to record a couple of hours of it for her so she can listen to the music while Tivo is recording other stuff.
Yep, I do that all the time for myself, except I prefer baroque.
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Old 12-29-2003, 02:52 PM   #16
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Even easier

All I do when I want to watch another show other than the one recording is simply place the Tivo in Standby. Navigate to the settings menu and click on Standby. The Tivo will still record and you can now use the tuner in your TV to dial in any channel you want.

This won't work with any sort of box (cable, satellite) however.



Oops! Sorry for the repeat, I just saw this excellent suggestion a few posts up.
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Old 01-03-2004, 08:06 AM   #17
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please advise how to make the connections to original tivo model (sony) so we can watch one show and record another. have a multiplexer installed already. also how to connect tv with picture in picture to tivo. also how to activate the second sat input thanks much
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Old 01-03-2004, 10:57 PM   #18
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I just got my SA TiVo for xmas, so I'm very new to this. We have cable (no box) (actually we are probably switching to Directivo within a month or so, but that's a whole 'nother thread LOL!). We used a splitter. But I don't use standby mode. Am I doing something wrong? When my husband wants to channel surf, or I want to watch something while something is recording, we just pick up the old tv remote and change the input.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:14 AM   #19
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No, Melissa, that's perfectly fine. Some TiVo remotes have a standby button, so it's just as convenient to use standby mode as to switch inputs. Some do not, in which case using a splitter and changing the input is definitely more convenient.
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Old 01-04-2004, 11:52 AM   #20
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Thanks ccwf. Just wanted to make sure I was getting the most out of my TiVo
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Old 01-04-2004, 02:33 PM   #21
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I cannot get this to work, I have tried everything (except the right thing) if their is anyone out their with answers, I have questions.
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:00 PM   #22
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Chet, post details of what equipment you have (cable box, satellite box, antenna, A/V receiver, TV, splitters, ), how each is connected to the other and with what cables, what input/output jacks they have, and, if possible, their models. Many friendly folk here like to help with setup problems.

If you have more that is not working besides just watching live while recording something else, you may want to look at TiVo's or Electrophobia's wiring diagrams. (There are links in the thread Before you askplease check these top answers for TiVo questions!)
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:51 AM   #23
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ONDEMAND from Comcast and Tivo

This week I moved and I replaced my old (working well!) cable system with a new digital cable system from Comcast. It seems like Tivo and digital cable fight a little. My biggest problem seems to be with ONDEMAND -- Comcast's online video rental service. Basically, I tune to channel 1 (a channel tivo doesn't even list as a possibility even when I tell it the correct service I have) and select a movie or show and click watch.

Since this service is very much like using a VCR, tivo isn't very helpful here. Tivo can't record scheduled shows, it doesn't know to pause or stop the show when switching channels, etc. Also, I'm not sure but I believe that just trying to switch channels doesn't work, so Tivo ends up recording the ONDEMAND show instead.

So how can I fix this? Tivo needs the cable box to see pay channels. ONDEMAND requires the cable box too. Am I just out of luck and need two cable boxes?
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Old 01-05-2004, 02:56 PM   #24
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xkahn,

You won't be able to program the TiVo to view On-Demand programming, but you should still be able to watch it.

Since you must use the cable box remote to order the On-Demand programming anyway, the following should work:

1. Make sure there's nothing important in the To Do list scheduled to record while you're going to watch the On-Demand movie.

1.5. If you want to record the movie to TiVo, set up a manual recording for the next 2 hours (or whatever) on a random channel.

2. Use the cable box remote to change to channel 1 and order the movie.

3. Watch movie and/or allow movie to record. Do not change channels. You should still be able to use the trickplay features, but the TiVo will be confused about the name of the program. That shouldn't be a big problem, though.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:28 PM   #25
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Re: ONDEMAND and Tivo

Hi ZikZak,
Thanks for your suggestions. It's a pretty good way to keep Tivo from interfering with the ONDEMAND broadcast. But it isn't quite what I want, I guess. I'd really like to treat the ONDEMAND content almost as a DVD or VCR device since it can do almost everything those devices can do. In this case, Tivo just gets in the way. (Never thought I'd say that!)

It seems like the only way to fix this is to get a second cable box.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:46 PM   #26
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Re: Re: ONDEMAND and Tivo

Quote:
Originally posted by xkahn
It seems like the only way to fix this is to get a second cable box.
That sounds expensive. You could also run a bypass *after* the cable box around the TiVo, as in

Wall -> Cable Box -> Splitter or Cable Box Out #1 -> TiVo -> TV

Splitter Out #2 -> TV

Just make sure the TiVo doesn't try to record anything else while the On-Demand movie is running--- you may have to disable suggestions or unplug the TiVo for this.

In my case, I just use regular Pay-Per-View, record it to the TiVo, and use the TiVo's trickplay features.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:53 PM   #27
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xkahn, can you put your TiVo in standby during an ONDEMAND broadcast so that it doesn't interfere? Then TiVo is just a passthrough for the cable box output. (I'm quite a newbie, but it sounds like some TiVos don't support standby, so maybe that's the problem here.)
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Old 01-05-2004, 04:10 PM   #28
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Skst,
I believe that Tivo will still try to record shows while in standby... But then I could be wrong. Ideally, the Tivo would be completely stand-alone while I watch ONDEMAND, but for that I really would need two cable boxes.
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:58 PM   #29
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record one, watch another

I am just into my fourth day as a TiVo Series 2 (Toshiba) Basic user, so pls bear with. If you have a TiVo, a VCR and a TV, you have three tuners in your house and so can deal with three channels simultaneously -- I guess this assumes you do not have a cable box supplying only one chan output to you at a time. As I do not have either cable or a cable box, nor a dish -- I am an broadcast-over-the-air kind of guy -- you just need to get the RF input available from the antenna to all three RF inputs. In my case I split the RF out of the wall off to TiVo and to the VCR. The TV RF is daisey chained off the VCR. TiVo also drives the TV off of its composite video (yellow plug) output. So, if I really want to -- actually if my wife would really want to -- I can have tivo catch a program, the VCR catch a program, and watch live TV on my TV -- without the good sound, of course, as the good audio signals go from tivo to home theater amp (Video1 input)and from the VCR to the amp (Video2 input). Seems pretty OK to me, if you need to do three things (three different chans) at once. I think the three devices -- tivo, vcr, tv -- can all be daisey chained together on the RF side. The tivo will need to be put in standby so it will pass the RF signal down the line to the vcr. I haven't tried this one yet, but the chatter on this forum suggests this is a way to go. Actaully, I just remebered that my PC video card has a TV tuner, so I could split the signal again off the antenna and run it to my PC and watch yet another channel on my monitor. Is this too much TV, or what??
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Old 01-09-2004, 11:57 AM   #30
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help!

i'm new at this but here goes. seems to be a lot of good helpful info from people here. i have a new hdtv and hd digital cable box from comcast and pioneer 810 tivo/dvd player. professional installer set up so i can watch one channel while recording another, but i'm not sure i'm getting all possible benefits. installer split signal where it comes out of wall, one to cable box, and one to tivo box. as a result, using input 3 i can watch all cable stations (including hi-def), but using input 1 (the tivo box) he has bypassed the cable box, so i get far fewer channels with which to use tivo features for recording, pausing, etc. is there a simple way for a non-techie like me to improve this? i'm afraid to even look at the connections in the back!
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