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Old 06-03-2003, 03:56 PM   #31
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Okay, she's kind of in denial here, but what I think would *REALLY* help is a brief lesson on the different save options available.

Keep At Most = 1 - 5 or ALL

-This is the most BRILLIANT delete option of all, particularly for kids' shows. I'm really confused that she's having your archive the kids shows to tape. How many kids' shows does she have on tape already? How old are your kids? Do they *really* care which particular episode they're watching (and if they do, are they actually not old enough to understand how to watch/delete, themselves?). In our house, we use Keep At Most extensively for my 2 1/2 yr. old's shows. Since we know how many are being kept, we know exactly how many hours his stuff takes up. And since he doesn't care *which* episodes he watches, we know that he'll always have an episode (or two or five) to watch and that they'll be different, so we don't get sick of seeing the same thing over and over and over. We also never have to delete these shows when he's done watching because we know they'll be overwritten by new shows when the new shows air (and, not deleted BEFORE then). And, of course, if we are taping 3 shows at KAM=1, then we know his stuff takes up 1 1/2 hrs. of space on our TiVo. It will never take up *more* than 1 1/2 hrs. of space and nothing that we watch will ever get deleted for his shows because his older shows are getting deleted to make the space for the new show.

- Save Until = <Date>, Space Needed, I Delete

Most of the shows spouse and I care about are 'Save Until Space Needed'. We have a 60 hr. box and stuff tends not to get deleted until it's about 2 weeks old (actually, right now we have all of Firefly sitting at the bottom of our TiVo and still have stuff lasting two weeks---I think it's because we're watching less TV than when we first got our TiVo). We delete things when we're finished with them and sometimes delete things unwatched if we know we're not going to watch them (sitcom reruns, etc.). If a show we *really* care about gets down within the last 10 or so programs and we haven't watched it, I'll switch it to 'Save Until I Delete'. Then, when we *do* watch TV, we start at the BOTTOM of the list, watching the SUID programs first, then the SUSN. Sunday I did a marathon session of 'American Dreams' and got caught up for the season after not watching it in over a month. We have about two months worth of new Smallvilles to catch up on. Most of the SUSN stuff has a yellow dot with a ! in it by the time we watch it, so we don't use that to gauge its deletion likelyhood, but instead go by how close to the bottom it is. If it's the 5th show from the bottom, 1 hr. long, and the 4 things under it are 1/2 hr. sitcoms, then I know I need to watch it soon, because we've only got about 2 hrs. of recording time before it goes poof!

If stuff has been sitting for a *long* time as SUID at the bottom of the TiVo *or* gets to the bottom without me noticing and gets deleted before it's watched or switched to SUID, then I just decide we didn't *really* care enough about it to make it a priority and let it go. Plus, I figure that *everything* will show up in syndication or on DVD someday.

(I also have a few things set at KAM=2, primarily HGTV stuff and similar things that don't have any kind of story arc across episodes. I tried setting my 'Friends' reruns that way once and switched it because the different stations *do* show them in order and I'd get annoyed if I didn't have one in sequence if I was watching them.)

If your wife really has that much stuff on the TiVo and she's not watching any of it, sounds like she wouldn't've had the chance to watch it if she was TiVoless and she's just hoarding shows because she can and not really thinking about what she wants to do with it. Just like money is useless if not *eventually* spent, TV is useless if not eventually watched.

I'd teach her how to use the delete options a bit more intelligently and let her get a feel for how long stuff tends to stay on her TiVo under 'normal' circumstances (setting everything to SUID isn't really considered normal usage since the TiVo was never designed to archive television). Once she has a sense for how long shows tend to last and figures out how to really prioritize the shows she cares about and make time at some point in her life for them, she may do better. If she just can't do that, then I feel sorry for you, because if she's hoarding TV then I'm sure she's hoarding other things in her life too, and I can say from personal experience that this kind of behavior usually brings a lot more frustration and discontent than satisfaction. Have her check out www.flylady.net and good luck!
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Old 06-03-2003, 04:24 PM   #32
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One thing your wife hasn't caught on to yet. It's probably not possible to watch everything Tivo records! The best she can hope for is to watch the best shows in Now Playing. Something will either get deleted, or not recorded in the first place for lack of space.
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Old 06-03-2003, 06:01 PM   #33
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As a wife and as a future TiVo-er, I say give her this TiVo (warmly and without resentment) and buy a new one for yourself. It's the most healthy answer for your marriage!
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Old 06-03-2003, 06:59 PM   #34
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Jzawilski: best suggestion yet!
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:00 AM   #35
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I've done several of the things suggested in this thread.

First, we have two Tivo's. One is for my wife's stuff and the kid's stuff. If it fill up, I don't have to stress about it. The other Tivo is for my stuff and the stuff that both my wife and I watch.

Next, both Tivo's have been upgraded with more space, but of course that only delays the problem.

Third, on the my/our Tivo, I record everything as KUID. If it's my show, I watch and delete it. If it's our show and we watch it together it's deleted. If I watch it I change it to 'yellow-dot' for her to watch and delete. The key idea here is that if she falls to far behind (and she's WAY behind right now) the some of the old stuff will simply vanish without failing to record anything new.

Having lived through one Tivo (and the stress I felt as it filled up) the only long-term solution (if your wife doesn't see-the-light) will be to get a second Tivo.
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Old 06-04-2003, 01:06 AM   #36
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Definitely give her the current TiVo and tell her she's responsible for it. Explain the situation, that once it's filled, it will stop recording. Then buy yourself a new TiVo, with more space of course, and forbid her to record anything on it.
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:48 AM   #37
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Get a DVD-Recorder.

or wait for a US version of the Sony NDR-XR1
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:06 PM   #38
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You really should upgrade your Tivo to a large drive size. A 120-160GB drive will cost about $70-$120 and will more than double your space. The process is reasonably straightforward. Visit the upgrade forum.

I would suggest that you help your wife ween herself from keep-until-I-delete. Maybe a bit of negotiation to only use that on her three most favorite shows, and the rest go under "delete when space is needed". My wife and I have a 40+120 and it allows us to keep shows for 1-2 months before they delete, depending on how much other junk we watch. You could also ask her to not use KUID, but instead just keep reseting the delete date on the shows. At least that way it will be a bit of a nuisance to continually reset the timer on 30 shows, and a reminder that the tivo is full of shows that aren't being watched. Recording at lower quality will also free up some space, if you can tolerate it.
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:52 PM   #39
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I agree...buy yourself your own TIVO, and tell your wife she has an early anniversary present.
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:56 PM   #40
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If you buy another TiVo, it will probably just be a matter of time until she fills that one up. She just can't bear the idea of erasing something she "might" want to look at in the future. Reminds me of a friend who taped hundreds of hours of TV movies to watch after he retired, but then never watched one.

If you must humor her, then IMHO probably the best answer is to transfer the TiVo recordings to something with removable media, such as a VCR or DVD recorder. When she sees the actual cost and inconvenience of keeping all this old junk around, maybe she will realize that, if she hasn't gotten around to watching a recording after a few weeks, she probably never will; and that in any event "it's only TV" and hardly worth archiving forever.
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:58 PM   #41
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Separate TiVo's are like separate bathrooms - the secret to a happy marriage.
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:59 PM   #42
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This really boils down to whether he has his wife set to "Keep Until I Delete" or if he entered into one of those til-death-do-us-part things.
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Old 06-04-2003, 01:10 PM   #43
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Well clearly she's not "save until space needed" or she'd be gone already
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Old 06-04-2003, 01:33 PM   #44
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Be sure you let us know what the decision is, and how it works out. We're nosy that way.
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Old 06-04-2003, 08:54 PM   #45
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If it were me, I'd dump the wife. Already done that twice,
wait......oops....they both dumped me. But I'm living
happily with my 3 tivos.
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:56 PM   #46
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Well, as a woman, I feel kind of funny even suggesting that this be done to another woman, but it sounds like buying another Tivo will only delay, not solve the problem. She's definitely in denial that she'll ever have time to watch all those programs, not with a small child(ren) she won't. My mother is also a "Tivo pig". I bought the original 30 hour Tivo for both my parents as a joint Christmas present, but my father was never allowed to use it, not without a lot of bitching on her part. They upgraded to an 80 hour Tivo during the promotion a couple of months ago, and I said something to my father about maybe now he would get to use it, and he said "Don't be ridiculous. She'll just hog the new Tivo." Sure enough, he doesn't even have an hour recording on the new Tivo because the relentless nag wouldn't allow it without excessive bitching.

My suggestion: change the "save" date from "save until I delete" to "save until Saturday" on some of her less favorite programs, or the oldest recordings, and say nothing. It might motivate her to watch them if she sees those exclamation points, and if it doesn't, or she doesn't even get to the TV to notice them, well, its not like YOU deleted them. The machine deleted them, not you. That'll take care of the immediate need. For the long term, summer will help, but next fall, consider changing "save until I delete" to "save 7 days" -- that'll probably keep at least a couple of weeks worth of each program, unless you have an excessive number of season passes.

The advice given earlier about the childrens' programs is also excellent -- kids want to watch the program. They don't care about the episode. As long as they have some, and some turnover, they're happy.
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Old 06-05-2003, 11:36 AM   #47
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Wow... so many responses. I feel I should give more background. We just got our TiVo a couple of months ago, and before that, we used to use a VCR to manually tape shows to watch later. We built up quite a backlog of tapes at the time of the TiVo purchase. My wife actually has watched part of the tape backlog, and a little bit of the TiVO backlog, but she still definitely has more tape backlog to watch, not to mention a whole bunch of TiVo backlog.

We have a 3 1/2 year old son, which keeps her very busy; that's why she has trouble watching the backlog. I myself have completely caught up and have no backlog. Here's why:

1) I have less shows on my list than she does. Several of her shows I simply refuse to watch because I've made a decision on how many shows I want to watch, based on how many hours I'm willing to spend watching TV. My list is not small, however, but it's smaller than hers.

2) I do most of my watching late at night after both my wife and son have gone to sleep. Sometimes I just stay up later, other times I go to sleep when they do, but wake up in the middle of the night and can't sleep, so I watch then too. So I personally have no tape or TiVo backlog.

Another thing... we temporarily have a reprieve because the seasons are over and mostly reruns are being shown now, so our To Do list is fairly small. One problem is that we have 3 season passes for kid shows, and sometimes they run marathons (even now), and then the To Do list gets big. (They're KUID-all episodes.) Right now, if I try to schedule something more than 2 or 3 days out it says the memory is full. That was a really neat suggestion somebody made about temporarily changing the season passes to KU space needed, schedule my show, then change the season passes back to KUID. I think I'll try that.

Recall that we offload the kids shows to tape as soon as we can. This really does seem silly to me. My son actually doesn't like the shows because he's too young to appreciate them. But my wife wants to save them on tape for the day that he'll like them. So far, we recorded about 6-12 episodes per season pass. She doesn't want any of them missed. I think I should have a frank talk with her and suggest that when the time comes for him to appreciate such shows, there will be plenty available at that time in the guide data (maybe not *that* show, but some appropriate shows), and we can TiVo them then. But she doesn't always think logically in these areas, so we'll see how that conversation goes.

One more thing I worry about. We got our TiVo in the middle of a season. What happens next year when a new season starts? If my wife doesn't keep up, there's going to be awfully large number of episodes she'll want stored. Maybe upgrading is an option, if the new buffer is large enough to last through the season so that she can catch up in the summer.
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Old 06-05-2003, 11:38 AM   #48
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P.S. I hope my wife doesn't discover this thread. Fortunately she doesn't know about this forum.
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Old 06-05-2003, 11:44 AM   #49
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New question about deletion.

Suppose all your suggestions are gone, and the only thing in your TiVo memory are season passes, some with KUID, and some with KU space needed. Suppose your TiVo is full and it needs to record something. Of course it won't touch the KUID, so it attacks the other. Will it delete in chronological order of when they were recorded, or will it first delete all shows lowest in the season pass manager list first before going to a different series? I'm assuming that's why we're able to move shows up and down in the season pass manager.
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Old 06-05-2003, 11:49 AM   #50
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Count me in for the idea of having separate TiVos. My wife and I did just fine with one TiVo, as long as there was nothing she liked to watch. Once one of her friends introduced her to HGTV, it all went to hell in a handbasket, and I suddenly had far more home decorating shows on my drive than I thought a human could watch.

And I was right. She can't watch them all. So I got myself a DirecTiVo, and gave her the standalone to do whatever she wanted with. She has total responsibility for getting her shows off the drive, whether it's by watching and deleting, deleting without watching, or doing nothing and watching her shows get overwritten. Removing myself from the equation made our lives much easier, and she's become more involved in deciding what shows have a higher priority to her - just like it should be.

Now I need to get one for my daughter, and life will be even better. Clifford and The Wire don't really mix.

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Old 06-05-2003, 11:50 AM   #51
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I should say also that as of the last few days my wife has increased the available memory by watching a little bit, and changing some shows to worst quality. So instead of being down to our last 2-3 hours, we've got about 7-8 hours of room on it. I still say that her rate of freeing up is going to have to increase when the new season starts in Fall. Here's what I think my options are:

1) get a second TiVo
2) upgrade our current one
3) archive more to tape
4) when the Fall comes and we become in imminent danger of filling up the TiVO with KUID causing shows not to record, I need to negotiate an agreement with her to change KUID to something else.

If an old episode gets deleted, I say it's more important for me not to miss a new episode than for her not to miss an old episode, especially if I'm keeping up and she's not.

Truthfully though, she does feel guilty for not keeping up, but she really wants to see all her backlogged shows.
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Old 06-05-2003, 11:52 AM   #52
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I like the second TiVo idea, but it's so expensive! $250 for the TiVO, $300 for the lifetime service. Total $550 layout for a second TiVo. That's a little hard to digest.
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Old 06-05-2003, 12:24 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by timckelley
Recall that we offload the kids shows to tape as soon as we can. This really does seem silly to me. My son actually doesn't like the shows because he's too young to appreciate them. But my wife wants to save them on tape for the day that he'll like them. So far, we recorded about 6-12 episodes per season pass. She doesn't want any of them missed. I think I should have a frank talk with her and suggest that when the time comes for him to appreciate such shows, there will be plenty available at that time in the guide data (maybe not *that* show, but some appropriate shows), and we can TiVo them then. But she doesn't always think logically in these areas, so we'll see how that conversation goes.
Just out of curiosity (as the father of 2-yr-old and 4.5-yr-old boys), what kinds of shows is she recording?

We've done what a few others here have suggested: keep at most = 1, delete when space needed. We've got about 6-10 season passes for them, and all are set up this way. Our 4.5-yr-old loves Rescue Heroes, which is only on once per week-- but he'll watch the same episode every morning after he's ready for school. Our 2-yr-old says "Watch Bear [in the big Blue House]" and there it is for him. Yes, they're TiVo-spoiled.

We recently had our Sony series 1 serviced (failing hard drive), and had to be without the TiVo for about 2 weeks. It was a big shock to the system for our sons (and my wife!). They're much better now, though.

I've had to tighten up some of my wife's season passes, too. I had to limit her to 3 "Trading Spaces", and maybe 3 "30 Minute Meals". Marathons of Trading Spaces would fill up the list quickly. I also moved it down in priority, below all of our prime-time passes. Otherwise, it was pre-empting some good shows.

Good luck with the fight!

BTW, my opinion (since you don't want to shell out for another TiVo) is to put a stop to all the archiving. Nothing gets a default of KUID. If you need to keep it longer, use it sparingly. With summer here, you'll be spending more time not watching TV, so it's not going to get any better. Also, go back & adjust recording quality on shows that aren't worthy of the space (unless it's unwatchable on a big-screen).

Tim
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Old 06-05-2003, 12:37 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by timckelley
New question about deletion.

Suppose all your suggestions are gone, and the only thing in your TiVo memory are season passes, some with KUID, and some with KU space needed. Suppose your TiVo is full and it needs to record something. Of course it won't touch the KUID, so it attacks the other. Will it delete in chronological order of when they were recorded, or will it first delete all shows lowest in the season pass manager list first before going to a different series? I'm assume that's why we're able to move shows up and down in the season pass manager.
I think it's in order of when the shows were recorded, oldest first. I don't think the priority on Season Passes has any effect on when it's deleted. It just determines which show gets recorded if you have 2 shows at the same time.
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Old 06-05-2003, 01:31 PM   #55
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>> Just out of curiosity (as the father of 2-yr-old and 4.5-yr-old boys), what kinds of shows is she recording? <<

The three shows are:

Liberty's Kids
Cyberchase
Between the Lions

>> We've done what a few others here have suggested: keep at most = 1, delete when space needed. <<

That's not really applicable to us because our son currently has no interest in any of the three shows. He also doesn't know how to talk yet because he's autistic, and doesn't do much TV requesting except for some video tapes he watches repeatedly. (He's currently 3 1/2 years old. My mother's pretty sure I was partially autistic too, and in fact I didn't speak until until was 4 or 5 years old.) I guess I should ask my wife how many episodes we really need to archive for a child who might never want to watch them. I think she's feels these shows are educational and for that reason she thinks he should watch them.
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Old 06-05-2003, 01:51 PM   #56
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Yes I agree about the second TiVo, but don't tell your wife. Rent the "other" TiVo it's own apartment and visit it on your lunch hour and weekends. Oh yes, there will need to be the occasional over night "business trip" during sweeps week, your favorite playoffs, etc.
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Old 06-05-2003, 01:52 PM   #57
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I tried setting my Wiggles SP to delete when space needed and KAM=5 yet I still have more than 5 in my now playing list. Will it only limit them to 5 when it needs space?

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Old 06-05-2003, 02:04 PM   #58
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Tim,

I have nothing to add, but just wanted to say thanks for your intellegent, well-thought out posts.

You clearly have a deep understanding of the subtle nuances of the TiVo's behavior. It's refreshing to see someone post a question, and have all their facts straight.
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Old 06-05-2003, 02:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike20852
I tried setting my Wiggles SP to delete when space needed and KAM=5 yet I still have more than 5 in my now playing list. Will it only limit them to 5 when it needs space?
The episodes that existed before you last changed the expiration options on the SP, and any episodes for which you have manually changed the expiration date, will not count towards the 5. You shouldn't get more than 5 otherwise.
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Old 06-05-2003, 02:32 PM   #60
mmascari
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
The episodes that existed before you last changed the expiration options on the SP, and any episodes for which you have manually changed the expiration date, will not count towards the 5. You shouldn't get more than 5 otherwise.
If you change just the KAM and not the expiration, it will delete shows. I've seen instances where I change the KAM number and shows were deleted. For instance, it was 5 and I had 4 shows but haven't looked at any of them, and none are SUID. After changing the KAM number to 2, only 2 shows are left.

On the other hand, as mentioned, if you change the expiration date for a specific show, it's not counted, and I've seen this as well.
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