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Old 08-21-2014, 06:48 PM   #121
bradleys
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Aren't ya suppose to work at work?

My boss doesn't like it when I watch Breaking Bad in the afternoon....
Details, details!

It would have been awesome during the World Cup games...
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:12 PM   #122
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Stream will support 4.1 (Jelly Bean) and later, the OnePlus One is getting updated to 4.4.4, why would you think it wouldn't be supported?
Because the Tivo's engineers are very bad. Because it has taken over an extra year to get support.

Because I am sure they havn't tested with thew newest android or all screen sizes. I really just don't trust Tivo's abilities... Tivo users since S1, 1999
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:18 PM   #123
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I will agree the fragmentation in the android ecosystem is a challenge - but at this point you are ranting, not making a reasonable argument.

I have been with TiVo for just as long as you have and frankly, you're not being fair. Yes, TiVo has made some missteps and from time to time we have had to deal with issues we should reasonably be able to expect them to deliver correctly.

But TiVo has done a lot correctly... I remember quite well, TiVo putting itself on the line to push for a mechanism for cable integration and provide the first real HDTV DVR option.

Did android streaming take longer than it should - yes, but let's be honest, maybe 8 months longer than it should have. Blame android and Apple for the technology wars for that.

TiVo used flash and the hardware wasn't capable - but pushed for the maturation of Haxe to completely rewrite their software... And back ported it to the Premiere line!

No, I will be the first to claim that TiVo doesn't do everything correctly - but you have to admit TiVo continues to push forward in a space nobody else even attempts.
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:17 AM   #124
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They do push forward, but a LOT more slowly than they would if they had effective competition pushing them. And with every update it's two steps forward, one back.

Totally disagree about the 8 months, btw - this should have been done at release. IMO it had little to do with fragmentation and everything to do with lawyers.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:07 AM   #125
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They do push forward, but a LOT more slowly than they would if they had effective competition pushing them. And with every update it's two steps forward, one back.
The first Series 3 was two steps forward and one step back? The Roamio line was two steps forward and one step back? And just how much more competition does TiVo need to be successful? They have all the MSO's breathing down their neck providing "free" DVR's using technology they stole from TiVo!

TiVo would move quicker if it had the resources (revenue) to do so, TiVo is not apple, or Google or Comcast or any of these huge companies with limitless resources.

And yet... The product they provide is still hanging in there. Apple and Google don't see (yet) a market they can dominate so they won't make a competitive product. And you can forget another start-up in this regulated crowded market.

Will cable over IP change that equation? Maybe - only time will tell.

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Totally disagree about the 8 months, btw - this should have been done at release. IMO it had little to do with fragmentation and everything to do with lawyers.
You can disagree all you want, it doesn't change the reality. Apple / Google technology wars created this issue - and we may very well find that TiVo ends up having to support two disparate streaming / encryption technologies to bring this to market.

TiVo isn't the only company to have problems providing DRM capable streaming to android - but yeah, if they had Netflix resources...

This was the Android world 18 months ago: http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articl...ces-86846.aspx
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Last edited by bradleys : 08-22-2014 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:43 AM   #126
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What's the first rule of fight club?
She started it.

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Apple and Google doesn't see (yet) a market they can dominate so, they won't make a competitive product. And you can forget another start-up in this regulated crowded market.
I know Tivo users don't see it this way, but from Apple and Google's POV they are already in the market with the Apple TV, AndroidTV and Chromecast. That is considering everything, they felt this was the most lucrative, lowest hanging fruit. Not to berate this point, but remember Google used to own Motorola. They could have made a DVR in the blink of an eye and declined to because they have bigger fish to fry.

If you want more literal competition ... *blink*:
https://support.google.com/fiber/answer/2464928?hl=en
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #127
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Well, I have little doubt they *could* dominate, but they see the market for a DVR being simply too small to be cost effective to do so.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:58 AM   #128
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I know Tivo users don't see it this way, but from Apple and Google's POV they are already in the market with the Apple TV, AndroidTV and Chromecast. That is considering everything, they felt this was the most lucrative, lowest hanging fruit. Not to berate this point, but remember Google used to own Motorola. They could have made a DVR in the blink of an eye and declined to because they have bigger fish to fry.
Neither Apple or Google would ever mess with cable cards or nasty cableco legacy distribution... If they are going to get into this market it would be end to end delivery. And I say more power to them, but it is going to take a lot of energy and money to break the cableco monopoly.

Content owners make HUGE money selling distribution rights to Cable Companies. When you are talking about a couple of dollars per month per channel for each subscriber - a lot of people are getting very rich.

This ain't the music industry!
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:08 PM   #129
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The first Series 3 was two steps forward and one step back? The Roamio line was two steps forward and one step back?
I was talking about software updates, not hardware (which this update is).

We'll just have to agree to disagree about why they're so late to market with this, neither you or I know the truth.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:24 PM   #130
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Neither Apple or Google would ever mess with cable cards or nasty cableco legacy distribution... If they are going to get into this market it would be end to end delivery. And I say more power to them, but it is going to take a lot of energy and money to break the cableco monopoly.

Content owners make HUGE money selling distribution rights to Cable Companies. When you are talking about a couple of dollars per month per channel for each subscriber - a lot of people are getting very rich.

This ain't the music industry!
This is probably why the jerks at Google Fiber force customers to use their equipment instead of TiVo's and CableCARDs Why can't people just accept that TiVo is superior in every way?
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:36 PM   #131
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At least root is easy enough to temporarily disable by just disabling SuperSU in the settings screen. I have to do the with the Starz and Encore streaming apps.
That is no guarantee. There are several ways to detect a rooted device and simply disabling SuperSU will not hide from all of them. But, ya never know.

DRM is a frustrating and annoying cat and mouse game.
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:02 PM   #132
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Yep, looks like I'm going to have to load CyanogenMod 10.2 (or 11) on my Nook HD+ if I want to use the new app, it runs 4.0.3 stock I think. Fortunately CM is pretty stable on the Nook HDs now.
Or just buy a newer device?
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:04 PM   #133
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I believe part of the problem is that Android devices are so easily hacked to provide root access. This would potentially give the user the ability to do whatever with the media that downloads, to get around any restrictions, or to convert the files to other formats.
I have seen apps that refuse to download to rooted android phones.
Although this doesn't really explain why the apple devices don't have any issues with a streaming tivo app.
Someone once told me: "If it wasn't for people trying to circumvent things, and just accepted things for how they are, everything would be easier." I'm not sure if I agree with that but it does make me wonder since a lot of time and resources are put into patching holes and exploits that if left unexploited could be better spent towards innovation of new features and products. Like if the reason why it's taken two years to get Stream working on Android is because people kept doing things that could circumvent copyright restrictions like the example you mention of rooting devices, who wouldn't be livid at those perpetrators? It could have taken two years longer than needed, two years of people badmouthing the engineers whose fault it is not, two years of legitimate Android customers suffering without the ability to stream, two years that could have been better spent improving the performance of the Premiere and Stream and new accessories and products.
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:36 PM   #134
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Of course there's also the greed factor. Usually it's not the artists either. It's the corporations.
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:49 PM   #135
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I'd love to know what TiVo is going to do about getting the word out to all the review websites like CNET and PCMag and PCWorld and Engadget about Android streaming finally being a reality. Two years of bad reviews by reviewers complaining about the lack of Android support, how are they going to fix all this? I mean the Stream is a 9.9 out of 10 on the "can't-live-without-more-important-then-oxygen" scale but potential customers read and hear that it doesn't support Android, and those customers use Android devices, they obviously won't get the Stream. Now that that is no longer a factor, how is TiVo going to get those people back and get a Stream in their house? This is going to be one hell of a marketing campaign if TiVo has any common sense. Yes I'm aware of the argument "The Stream is already built into the Plus and Pro Roamios" but that's not the concern, it's about getting the stand alone Stream into customers homes and use it with the billions and billions of Premiere and base Roamio units already in place. One thought is giving them away for free or at a hugely subsidized price for a promotional period of time. Maybe do a loyalty program for subscribers who have been with the company for a period of time?

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Old 08-26-2014, 08:34 AM   #136
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Or just buy a newer device?
Send me $200, I'll give you my Paypal email.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:39 AM   #137
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it's about getting the stand alone Stream into customers homes and use it with the billions and billions of Premiere and base Roamio units already in place.
I'm pretty sure its more like hundreds of thousands, tops.

Also, while I expect they will get this into the applicable press, they are really looking to sell more Roamios with service than stand-alone streams.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:47 AM   #138
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Like if the reason why it's taken two years to get Stream working on Android is because people kept doing things that could circumvent copyright restrictions like the example you mention of rooting devices, who wouldn't be livid at those perpetrators? It could have taken two years longer than needed, two years of people badmouthing the engineers whose fault it is not, two years of legitimate Android customers suffering without the ability to stream, two years that could have been better spent improving the performance of the Premiere and Stream and new accessories and products.
You have no freaking idea why it's taken this long to roll out something that should have been there day one, just like the rest of us.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:41 PM   #139
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I'm pretty sure its more like hundreds of thousands, tops.

Also, while I expect they will get this into the applicable press, they are really looking to sell more Roamios with service than stand-alone streams.
Maybe, but they'd be fools not to since the standalone stream is still required for the base model Roamio, never mind all the aforementioned Premiere units. I think it's a lot more than just hundreds of thousands if you look back at when the Premiere first came out back in 2009 and all the revisions bringing more tuners and THX certifications and larger hard drives and hard drive upgrade retailers like weaKnees. That's like five years of solid, steady sales
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:44 PM   #140
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You have no freaking idea why it's taken this long to roll out something that should have been there day one, just like the rest of us.
Sorry. You are right, that's why I said "if" and was making suggestions and offering possibilities.
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:11 PM   #141
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That's like five years of solid, steady sales
I would not call Tivo a company with solid, steady sales. Over that period they lost money on operations and reduced customer count significantly. Most of their new customers were in the UK, so those are not even Tivo boxes.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:15 PM   #142
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I'd love to know what TiVo is going to do about getting the word out to all the review websites like CNET and PCMag and PCWorld and Engadget about Android streaming finally being a reality.
You don't think they already know?

It's there jobs to know these things. I'm also sure that TiVo is sending out standard press releases.
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:56 AM   #143
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You don't think they already know?

It's there jobs to know these things. I'm also sure that TiVo is sending out standard press releases.
I agree, but is it too little too late? Has the damage already been done?
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:23 AM   #144
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I agree, but is it too little too late? Has the damage already been done?
Probably. I'm sure some will be repaired, but they've lost revenue they'll never recover.
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:20 AM   #145
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Probably. I'm sure some will be repaired, but they've lost revenue they'll never recover.
Oh I couldn't care less about profit (I'm not TiVo or an investor), I just want TiVo to not think the stand alone stream is a DOA project and stop support. $129 (plus tax) may not be a lot to some people but to me it's an investment.
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:03 AM   #146
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The absolute maximum resolution is 1920x1080, so no matter what it would be less then your iPad. And given the screen size of the iPad you'd be very, very, hard pressed to see the difference between a 1280x720 and 1920x1080 stream, so why waste the bandwidth and encoding time?

If you really think there is a difference try it on your own. Download a show to your PC via TiVoToGo then use something like Handbreak to recode the exact same video to those two resolutions and see if you can actually see a difference when played on your iPhone/iPad. You almost certainly wont.

The only reason for them to increase the resolution would be if they supported AirPlay or HDMI out so you could watch on a big screen. They don't currently support that so saving bits and time are better options.
I was just saying that with tablets on the market like the Samsung Galaxy Note Pro with the 12.2-inch display, it would be nice to utilize the 1080p functionality the Stream is capable of, plus let's not forget about future devices with even larger screens.
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:20 PM   #147
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I'd love to see what resolution people can differentiate on a 12 inch screen.

Which brings me to another question...

There should be no problem casting this to another TV via Chromecast, yes?
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:21 PM   #148
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There should be no problem casting this to another TV via Chromecast, yes?
Highly doubt TiVo would enable relaying this... they're very cautious to not piss off their cable partners (whether or not any of this is documented by Cable Labs).
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:18 PM   #149
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There should be no problem casting this to another TV via Chromecast, yes?
yeah.... No

This type of question comes up anytime portable content is part of the equation: "how can I get content onto another big screen TV without purchasing another TiVo"

Some of the issue is protection from redistribution - going to your girlfriends house and using your TiVo app and a chromecast to "cast" a show that she isn't subscribed to. Another part of the issue is distributing content via the TiVo mechanisms, and that includes purchasing TiVo devices.

But do not belittle the redistribution aspect of this - Aereo was just shut down for running afoul of redistribution laws.
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Last edited by bradleys : 08-27-2014 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:44 PM   #150
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