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Old 07-30-2014, 09:31 AM   #1
djsting
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TiVo TCD140060 vs TCD240080

My TCD140060 seems to have a bad power supply. I can buy a TCD240080 for less than a new power supply though the TCD240080 has a bad hard drive. Can I use the drive from the TCD140060 in the TCD240080?
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:21 AM   #2
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Yes. You'll have to do a clear and delete everything to marry the drive to the motherboard of the 240 and you'll lose all recordings and settings, but it will work.

Initially the 240 and 140 units had their own software that was not compatible with the other, but Tivo combined them, so as long as a a drive from either has a semi current software version, it will work in either model.
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:37 PM   #3
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Yes. You'll have to do a clear and delete everything to marry the drive to the motherboard of the 240 and you'll lose all recordings and settings, but it will work.

Initially the 240 and 140 units had their own software that was not compatible with the other, but Tivo combined them, so as long as a a drive from either has a semi current software version, it will work in either model.
That's a real bummer about losing my recordings and settings. Is there any way to carry them over to the new unit?
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:57 PM   #4
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Nope.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:12 AM   #5
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That's a real bummer about losing my recordings and settings. Is there any way to carry them over to the new unit?
You could copy them from unit to unit or unit to PC to unit, but that would involve needing a working power supply in that 140.

A problem with the power supply of that 140 is certainly quite possible--I'm getting ready to repair mine, but I've already done the testing to confirm it's the supply and not the hard drive.

Why do you think the problem with your 140 is the power supply?


Also, do you have a lifetime sub on that 140?

What about the 240, does it have a lifetime sub?
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:56 AM   #6
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You could copy them from unit to unit or unit to PC to unit, but that would involve needing a working power supply in that 140.

A problem with the power supply of that 140 is certainly quite possible--I'm getting ready to repair mine, but I've already done the testing to confirm it's the supply and not the hard drive.

Why do you think the problem with your 140 is the power supply?


Also, do you have a lifetime sub on that 140?

What about the 240, does it have a lifetime sub?
Once playing around with both the 140 and 240 I was able to get the 240 to boot with the new drive, I then took that drive and put it back in the 140 again with the cover off and was able to determine that the drive did not even spin up...seems pretty clear at this point that the power supply on the 140 is shot.

Now on the 240 with the new drive I did have to clear & delete everything as previously mentioned. After selecting this from the menu the unit restarted and took some time completing the clear & delete. After this was done I was walked through the guided setup again. After this I think it may have done another restart then downloaded program data. All seem well until I started watching live TV and the unit restarted for no reason. Seemed odd though I thought maybe this was still something to do with the clear & delete process and/or the completely new setup created by the guided setup process. So after the restart was completed I went back to watching live TV. A very short while later (less than 20 minutes) it restarted AGAIN! At this point I've unplugged it and left it sit for now.

Any thoughts or ideas on what is happening with the 240 unit now? Oh, it's original drive was certainly junk...it was making awful noises.

Yes, both the 140 and 240 units have lifetime service which is why I'm putting the time and effort into them.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:38 AM   #7
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So the 240 with a bad drive which you bought has a lifetime sub?

There's no rule that says just because the drive was failing/had failed that the power supply might not be on its way out as well, but further testing would be needed to rule that in or out.

The good news is that the 240's power supply is easier to get to/remove than the 140's.

Do you have any soldering or voltmeter experience?
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Old 08-03-2014, 11:58 AM   #8
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So the 240 with a bad drive which you bought has a lifetime sub?
Yes

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There's no rule that says just because the drive was failing/had failed that the power supply might not be on its way out as well, but further testing would be needed to rule that in or out.
Agreed and oh so true.

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The good news is that the 240's power supply is easier to get to/remove than the 140's.
Just looking at the units this was very clear. Though at this point I have removed the power supply from the 140 since it is bad figuring that I would replaced it some day.

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Do you have any soldering or voltmeter experience?
No experience with either.
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:52 PM   #9
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Yes


Agreed and oh so true.


Just looking at the units this was very clear. Though at this point I have removed the power supply from the 140 since it is bad figuring that I would replaced it some day.


No experience with either.

Got any spare hard drives, even SATA, lying around?
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:14 AM   #10
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Got any spare hard drives, even SATA, lying around?
As long and capacity/size is not an issue yes, I have some smaller ones collecting dust.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:15 PM   #11
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As long and capacity/size is not an issue yes, I have some smaller ones collecting dust.
TiVos of that era tended to use Maxtor brand hard drives (that was before Seagate bought up Maxtor), and Maxtor, at that time, tended to make their drives about 1GB bigger than the competition for the "nominal" drive size.

So, for example, the image on the 80GB Maxtor in my 240080 won't fit on an 80GB WD or Seagate because the LBA number of the Maxtor is slightly larger.

I'd need to use a 100GB or larger, or find someone with a 240040 to make an image for me from their 40GB Maxtor if I wanted to use an 80GB WD or Seagate (although the image from a 40GB Maxtor would fit a 60GB drive just fine).


So depending on what you mean by smaller ones, we might be able to get one of your TiVos up and running while we work on more permanent fixes.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:58 PM   #12
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TiVos of that era tended to use Maxtor brand hard drives (that was before Seagate bought up Maxtor), and Maxtor, at that time, tended to make their drives about 1GB bigger than the competition for the "nominal" drive size.

So, for example, the image on the 80GB Maxtor in my 240080 won't fit on an 80GB WD or Seagate because the LBA number of the Maxtor is slightly larger.

I'd need to use a 100GB or larger, or find someone with a 240040 to make an image for me from their 40GB Maxtor if I wanted to use an 80GB WD or Seagate (although the image from a 40GB Maxtor would fit a 60GB drive just fine).


So depending on what you mean by smaller ones, we might be able to get one of your TiVos up and running while we work on more permanent fixes.
The good news I suppose is that these units both had WD hard drives in them.

Now as for what I have sitting around...I have a
30GB Seagate Barracuda
60GB Hitachi DeskStar
14.4GB IBM OEM drive
13GB Samsung SpinPoint

I would have to check to see what is on them. Some will be Windows some will be Linux, and some may not have an OS and just be formatted for Windows (i.e. FAT32 or NTFS).
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:35 PM   #13
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The good news I suppose is that these units both had WD hard drives in them.

Now as for what I have sitting around...I have a
30GB Seagate Barracuda
60GB Hitachi DeskStar
14.4GB IBM OEM drive
13GB Samsung SpinPoint

I would have to check to see what is on them. Some will be Windows some will be Linux, and some may not have an OS and just be formatted for Windows (i.e. FAT32 or NTFS).

It doesn't matter so much what drives they had in them, it matters from what drive the image you try to use was taken, or from what drive you try to copy.

I'm assuming that 60GB Hitachi is an IDE/PATA and not SATA.

If I'm mistaken we'll have to talk adapters.

See if the LBA number on its label is as large as or larger than the LBA number on the drive in your TCD140060.

If it's not smaller, you can copy the 140's drive to the Hitachi and stick the Hitachi in the 240 and probably get it to boot.

If it does, it'll likely complain about a hardware problem, or else it'll expect you to go through Guided Setup.

That's because the copied drive will still have the TiVo Service Number of the 140 stored on it and the 240 will have a different TSN--each TiVo gets a unique one. Not each model, each individual unit. If you had found and bought another 140, it would also have a different TSN.

So when a TiVo boots up and discovers a "TSN stored in a chip on the motherboard versus TSN recorded on the hard drive" mismatch, it has to go through some contortions to "marry" the new hard drive to the motherboard.

When you use either the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the WinMFS program to copy a TiVo drive to another drive or to restore a TiVo image to a drive, it doesn't matter if the target drive is formatted or not--everything on it will get overwritten.


Do you have a PC you can open the case on and does it have PATA/IDE headers?



I also have a 40GB 240 image that should fit on that 60GB Hitachi, but I forget from where I got it.


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../TCD24004A.tbk


I assume it's okay, although it'll probably be the "b" version of the software instead of the current "c" version, but that won't stop it from working.

As one can tell from the .tbk suffix of the file name, it's intended for use with the WinMFS program and not for use with the MFS Live cd.

Are you running Windows XP or later on that PC?
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:50 PM   #14
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It doesn't matter so much what drives they had in them, it matters from what drive the image you try to use was taken, or from what drive you try to copy.

I'm assuming that 60GB Hitachi is an IDE/PATA and not SATA.
Yes, all of those drives are IDE (aka PATA).

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If I'm mistaken we'll have to talk adapters.

See if the LBA number on its label is as large as or larger than the LBA number on the drive in your TCD140060.

If it's not smaller, you can copy the 140's drive to the Hitachi and stick the Hitachi in the 240 and probably get it to boot.

If it does, it'll likely complain about a hardware problem, or else it'll expect you to go through Guided Setup.

That's because the copied drive will still have the TiVo Service Number of the 140 stored on it and the 240 will have a different TSN--each TiVo gets a unique one. Not each model, each individual unit. If you had found and bought another 140, it would also have a different TSN.

So when a TiVo boots up and discovers a "TSN stored in a chip on the motherboard versus TSN recorded on the hard drive" mismatch, it has to go through some contortions to "marry" the new hard drive to the motherboard.

When you use either the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the WinMFS program to copy a TiVo drive to another drive or to restore a TiVo image to a drive, it doesn't matter if the target drive is formatted or not--everything on it will get overwritten.


Do you have a PC you can open the case on and does it have PATA/IDE headers?
I have a machine with swappable drive caddies making it even easier!

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I also have a 40GB 240 image that should fit on that 60GB Hitachi, but I forget from where I got it.


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../TCD24004A.tbk


I assume it's okay, although it'll probably be the "b" version of the software instead of the current "c" version, but that won't stop it from working.

As one can tell from the .tbk suffix of the file name, it's intended for use with the WinMFS program and not for use with the MFS Live cd.

Are you running Windows XP or later on that PC?
So let me stop right here and back track a little bit, I think you have have missed some of the back story. My 140 died. It was believed to be a bad drive so I got an 80GB drive and using MFSLive I copied the original 140 drive to the 80GB drive I just bought. Put that drive in the 140 and got the same results as the original drive thus leading to the conclusion that the power supply was shot. I then found a cheap 240 locally on craigslist which the person was convinced that it only needed a new drive so I bought it (it too has lifetime service so I figured it was a good deal). I put the 80GB drive (the one I just bought which now has the copy of the 140 software/image on it) into the 240 hoping that this was in fact all it needed (before doing this I did power up the 240 and it's drive sounded awful so it was certainly bad). Performed the clear and delete, went through the guided setup and began watching live TV when it started randomly rebooting as described.

So, I think you are starting me down a road I've already journeyed unless I'm mistaken...and please do correct me if I am wrong.

Where do we go from here?
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:55 AM   #15
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Yes, all of those drives are IDE (aka PATA).



I have a machine with swappable drive caddies making it even easier!



So let me stop right here and back track a little bit, I think you have have missed some of the back story. My 140 died. It was believed to be a bad drive so I got an 80GB drive and using MFSLive I copied the original 140 drive to the 80GB drive I just bought. Put that drive in the 140 and got the same results as the original drive thus leading to the conclusion that the power supply was shot. I then found a cheap 240 locally on craigslist which the person was convinced that it only needed a new drive so I bought it (it too has lifetime service so I figured it was a good deal). I put the 80GB drive (the one I just bought which now has the copy of the 140 software/image on it) into the 240 hoping that this was in fact all it needed (before doing this I did power up the 240 and it's drive sounded awful so it was certainly bad). Performed the clear and delete, went through the guided setup and began watching live TV when it started randomly rebooting as described.

So, I think you are starting me down a road I've already journeyed unless I'm mistaken...and please do correct me if I am wrong.

Where do we go from here?
I was under the impression that the only 80GB drive you had was the bad one that came with the 240080 you bought.

If you also have a good 80GB drive, put that 24004A image on it and try that in the 240.
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:53 PM   #16
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I was under the impression that the only 80GB drive you had was the bad one that came with the 240080 you bought.

If you also have a good 80GB drive, put that 24004A image on it and try that in the 240.
Ok, I'll give that a shot. Silly question...once I download the image how to I get it onto the drive?
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:07 PM   #17
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Ok, I'll give that a shot. Silly question...once I download the image how to I get it onto the drive?
Because the file for which I provided that link has an extension of .tbk (rather than .bak), that's an indication that it is to be used with the WinMFS program, which is available here:


http://mfslive.org/forums/download/file.php?id=86



You get a .zip file that unpacks to

winmfs.exe

and you copy that to somewhere on a PC running Windows XP or newer, and you run it with admin privileges.


Directions on running it here:

http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/index.html


The thing that you won't read there is that sometimes doing the expansion as part of the image restore only appears to work but actually doesn't, so the best thing is to tell it no when it offers to expand and then do it later as a separate step.


Right now we're just looking to put an image on a drive and see if it works in that 240.

If it does you can go back and do the expansion and have a TiVo to use while we sort out your 140 (and then you'll have two of them to use).


Since each TiVo has a unique TiVo Service Number, the TSN that will be on the drive after restoring that image to it will not be the same as the TSN burned into a chip on that 240's motherboard.

That means the TiVo itself will need to "marry" the drive to the motherboard.

Fortunately it's designed to be able to do so.

When you boot up with the drive with the new image on it, you might get a green screen with white letters saying something about a hardware problem that it needs 3 hours to fix--if so leave it alone for about 6 hours before you give up and pull the plug if it hasn't straightened things out by then.

Or it might start out in Guided Setup, in which case I think it will take care of the TSN mismatch as part of going through that.

Or it might boot but when you go to record something or check the Now Playing list it'll complain about an error 51 and want to fix it or want you to fix it by doing a Clear & Delete Everything.

But eventually it should have the TSN thing dealt with.
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:50 PM   #18
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I've kinda hit a wall with this stuff so I have ordered a new power supply from Weaknees for the TCD140 unit.

I've been unable to get the new drive for the TCD240 to mount properly on my computer to copy over the image you provided so I'm thinking I may have to bite the bullet and buy InstantCake. The issue seems to be in making it a slave for some reason. I've checked the jumpers repeatedly, put it on both IDE controllers and all yield me the same results. Though when I used MFSLive to copy the TCD140 image onto it there was no issue (this is why I'm thinking that InstantCake may be the answer to this issue). If you think I am wrong or that there may be another option that does not involve me spending more money please let me know.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:17 PM   #19
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I've kinda hit a wall with this stuff so I have ordered a new power supply from Weaknees for the TCD140 unit.

I've been unable to get the new drive for the TCD240 to mount properly on my computer to copy over the image you provided so I'm thinking I may have to bite the bullet and buy InstantCake. The issue seems to be in making it a slave for some reason. I've checked the jumpers repeatedly, put it on both IDE controllers and all yield me the same results. Though when I used MFSLive to copy the TCD140 image onto it there was no issue (this is why I'm thinking that InstantCake may be the answer to this issue). If you think I am wrong or that there may be another option that does not involve me spending more money please let me know.
I've got both the MFS Live version and the WinMFS version of a fat 80GB drive image for a 240.

What's the LBA number of the drive you're going to use in the 240?

Alternatively, is it at least a 100GB?

Come to think of it, what's the brand and model number, let's get to the bottom of this "how to jumper it" question.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:22 PM   #20
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I've got both the MFS Live version and the WinMFS version of a fat 80GB drive image for a 240.

What's the LBA number of the drive you're going to use in the 240?

Alternatively, is it at least a 100GB?

Come to think of it, what's the brand and model number, let's get to the bottom of this "how to jumper it" question.
The drive is a Western Digital Caviar WS800BB.
LBA: 153301488
Jumpered for Cable Select
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Old 08-31-2014, 06:10 PM   #21
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The drive is a Western Digital Caviar WS800BB.
LBA: 153301488
Jumpered for Cable Select
Bummer.

My 80GB 240 images need an LBA of at least 160086528

The XP installation on my TiVo wrangling machine is currently screwy for some reason, so I can't load that 40 .bak image to a (60GB or larger because Maxtor) drive and then make a .tbk image from it.

Perhaps some other kind soul around here could manage that.
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Old 08-31-2014, 06:24 PM   #22
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If that 240 uses a short (2 or 3 inches) IDE cable with 80 conductors and a blue plug at one end and a black plug at the other, then Cable Select should be the right setting.

Blue plug on motherboard end, black plug on drive end.

I seem to recall that for some unexplainable reason IDE drives had, in one or more cases, to be jumpered the same (CS or Master) when connected to the PC for getting imaged as they would be jumpered when installed in the TiVo afterwards.*

Also, at one time (I'm pretty sure it was) Western Digital PATA/IDE drives had a "no jumper" setting for Single, and a jumper in a particular place setting for being a Master with a Slave on the same cable and controller (referred to as "Master with Slave present"), and a different place for a jumper to set them as Slave, but that was likely back when 1 or 2 GB was considered a huge drive.

*Yes, I realize this makes no sense whatsoever, but it happened to me at least once.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:43 AM   #23
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If that 240 uses a short (2 or 3 inches) IDE cable with 80 conductors and a blue plug at one end and a black plug at the other, then Cable Select should be the right setting.

Blue plug on motherboard end, black plug on drive end.

I seem to recall that for some unexplainable reason IDE drives had, in one or more cases, to be jumpered the same (CS or Master) when connected to the PC for getting imaged as they would be jumpered when installed in the TiVo afterwards.*

Also, at one time (I'm pretty sure it was) Western Digital PATA/IDE drives had a "no jumper" setting for Single, and a jumper in a particular place setting for being a Master with a Slave on the same cable and controller (referred to as "Master with Slave present"), and a different place for a jumper to set them as Slave, but that was likely back when 1 or 2 GB was considered a huge drive.

*Yes, I realize this makes no sense whatsoever, but it happened to me at least once.
Yes, that's the cable in the TCD240 system.

Yep, I am aware of those different settings and recall the days when it had to be jumpered just right or everything would break. These days the cable select seems to work in most cases. I'll play around with the jumpers a bit and see if that changes anything though just for fun.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:57 AM   #24
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Ok, switched around the jumpers to Cable Select, Slave, Master w/Slave Present and placed it on different IDE channels and still no luck.
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Old 09-01-2014, 03:59 PM   #25
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Ok, switched around the jumpers to Cable Select, Slave, Master w/Slave Present and placed it on different IDE channels and still no luck.
I forgot you said that you're using drive caddies.

I have had a lot of luck with those.

Unfortunately almost all of it has been bad.

Suggest you bypass them for all TiVo drive wrangling.
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