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Old 07-27-2014, 07:48 PM   #1
TazExprez
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I am considering a TiVo Roamio Plus and 6 TiVo Mini boxes and 7 Roku 3 boxes.

I am currently using Verizon FiOS and have the Quantum TV Premium package. I have 2 VMS1100 DVR boxes and 5 IPC1100 client boxes. I currently pay $85.00 per month.

I was originally considering getting 2 Roamio Plus boxes and 5 TiVo Mini boxes, with lifetime subscriptions, along with 7 Roku 3 boxes for VOD. I think that this option is too expensive up front. I recently learned that you can connect up to 8 Tivo Mini boxes to a single Roamio Plus box with dynamic tuner allocation. This system is different from Verizon's, since Verizon requires 1 VMS1100 box for every 4 IPC1100 client boxes. We don't use all all 7 TVs (actually 8, but 2 are hooked up to a single box) at the same time, so this could probably work for us.

Could you watch 6 different live shows on 6 TiVo Mini boxes, while not watching anything on the Roamio Plus box, or does the Roamio Plus box always keep 1 or 2 tuners for itself, at all times? The Verizon VMS1100 always keeps 2 tuners for itself. Can you watch the same live show on the Roamio Plus box and the 6 TiVo Mini boxes at the same time? Could you stream recorded content to all 6 TiVo Mini boxes while watching something live on the Roamio Plus box? Can every single box watch the same recording at the same time? Is there any lag on the TiVo Mini boxes?

Thanks a lot for your time.
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:09 PM   #2
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Could you watch 6 different live shows on 6 TiVo Mini boxes, while not watching anything on the Roamio Plus box, or does the Roamio Plus box always keep 1 or 2 tuners for itself, at all times? The Verizon VMS1100 always keeps 2 tuners for itself. Can you watch the same live show on the Roamio Plus box and the 6 TiVo Mini boxes at the same time? Could you stream recorded content to all 6 TiVo Mini boxes while watching something live on the Roamio Plus box? Can every single box watch the same recording at the same time? Is there any lag on the TiVo Mini boxes?
1. No, the Roamio will always reserve one tuner for watching live-tv on itself.
2. Not live per se, but what you do is hit record on the live show (starting a recording on the Roamio), and have all Minis start watching the recording.
3. All Minis can have streamed recorded content to them, possibly the same show, while watching live-tv on the Roamio (and as I said, that recorded content can be the live show on the Roamio)
4. Basically no lag other than normal delay when changing live-tv channels, though if you're talking about synchronizing audio across Roamio and Mini (if you're in a room that can hear both), you'll have difficulties.
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:03 PM   #3
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The Tivo/Minis can do what you asked (up to 5 simultaneous tuners used by Minis). But Crispy's method of streaming an in-progress recording instead of watching live TV all around the house is a smart way to save tuners, if you need to "budget" them.

If you choose to switch rooms it'll remember the last paused location.
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:31 PM   #4
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The OP mentioned using the Roku 3 boxes for VOD. Does FiOS now have VOD access on the Roku 3?
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:57 PM   #5
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The OP may have been referring to other sources of VOD, not necessarily Verizon...

That should work, although with TiVo, you can always scale up with another Roamio if need be...
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:19 PM   #6
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Thanks a lot for all of your help!

I wonder if the Roamio Plus can keep a buffer for the last viewed channels on the client boxes? I know that with Quantum TV, whatever channels were being viewed on the client boxes are automatically buffered for about one hour, even if the boxes are turned off. This happens as long as you are not recording something on other channels on the tuners assigned to each client box. I really like having the buffer in case I like what I am seeing when I start watching the TV, and then just press record and watch it from the beginning.

I noticed this from the support section of the TiVo site:
"Why does the Picture-in-Guide window appear only when the Program Guide displays?
To prevent TiVo Mini from unnecessarily allocating a tuner, the Picture-in-Guide window is available only when you view the Program Guide."

What does this mean? With the FiOS client boxes, the only time you cannot see what is currently streaming live is when you are looking at the VOD menus.

Also, how rock solid would the performance of 1 Roamio Plus box and 6 Tivo Mini boxes be? I haven't had any problems with my current 2 VMS1100 boxes and 5 IPC1100 boxes since getting the 2 VMS1100 boxes communicating with each other. I get no disconnections and almost instantaneous channel changing on the client boxes. I would be connecting everything via MoCA.

I will probably hold off on the Roku 3 boxes until the fall, just in case some new Roku boxes or Apple TV boxes come out.

Thanks again.
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:56 PM   #7
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The Mini cuts the stream off as soon as you go back to TiVo Central, which is good, as it gives the tuner back to the main DVR. There is no video streaming to the Mini when you are just playing with the menus, and hence no tuner used. This is smart, since you might choose to select a previously recorded show, and not need a tuner at all. You don't get the buffer on the Minis, only on the full boxes.

I don't have a Roamio, but I don't imagine there would be any problems. I have 3 Minis running off of the far less powerful Premiere XL4, and it's pretty solid. It does glitch out occasionally, but I think my mess of coax wiring that has my MoCA network on it is the issue, not the TiVo itself.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:03 PM   #8
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1. Same as the Verizon boxes, only the Tivo/Minis maintain a 30 minute buffer. If the tuner changes a channel, the buffer is wiped and it starts over again.

2. Hard to explain in full, but all they're saying is that there's no video window on the Mini when browsing the main "Tivo Central" menus. This is done as a measure to preserve tuners and network resources as much as possible, rather than streaming video or using tuners indefinitely even if the TV is off. When you go into Tivo Central (the main menu), the Mini is essentially resting idle.

But if you're actively watching something and open up the Program Guide window, the video window will be there.

3. There are rare few people here who have benchmarked so many Minis simultaneously on a single host, but as someone with 3 Minis I've not had any problems. The Roamio Plus/Pro in general have very good ethernet and moca networking. Even if you max out TV video at 18 mbps across 5 tuners simultaneously, you're still well within hard drive and moca network specification. I haven't used the VMS so I can't compare the channel change times, but it's at least "decent" on the Minis.

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Old 07-29-2014, 09:08 PM   #9
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The buffer is on the host Tivo, not on the Mini. You can drop the tuner from one Mini, and grab the tuner with another Mini and that same 30 minute buffer will still be there. Or you can access that tuner from the host TiVo, after the Mini has dropped the tuner, and again you will see that same 30 minute buffer.
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Old 07-30-2014, 08:19 AM   #10
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Mini can access VOD (netflix, hulu), so why the Roku?
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:31 PM   #11
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Mini can access VOD (netflix, hulu), so why the Roku?
Amazon Prime, HBOGO, ESPN3, etc.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:18 PM   #12
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The buffer is on the host Tivo, not on the Mini. You can drop the tuner from one Mini, and grab the tuner with another Mini and that same 30 minute buffer will still be there. Or you can access that tuner from the host TiVo, after the Mini has dropped the tuner, and again you will see that same 30 minute buffer.
Hmmm, you're right, that's interesting, you do get the buffer. However, there is no way that I know of to get a different tuner's buffer from the Mini. It just gets whatever it gets.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:20 PM   #13
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Hmmm, you're right, that's interesting, you do get the buffer. However, there is no way that I know of to get a different tuner's buffer from the Mini. It just gets whatever it gets.
If you change the channel on the Mini to a channel that is already sitting on a tuner and buffering on the Roamio, then you should get that new channel's buffer.
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:44 PM   #14
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If you change the channel on the Mini to a channel that is already sitting on a tuner and buffering on the Roamio, then you should get that new channel's buffer.
I did just get that to work with 3 of the 4 tuners on my XL4. But you'd have no sure way of knowing what channel that happened to be. I guessed based on the last recordings, and knowing that my roommates haven't watched live TV since last night when they recorded...
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:59 PM   #15
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I did just get that to work with 3 of the 4 tuners on my XL4. But you'd have no sure way of knowing what channel that happened to be. I guessed based on the last recordings, and knowing that my roommates haven't watched live TV since last night when they recorded...
The only way to know for sure would be to go to the Roamio's location and look to see what channels the tuners are sitting on. While you are there, you could arrange the tuners to be on the channels you want them to be on.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:23 AM   #16
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Is any of that really worth the effort?
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:09 AM   #17
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The only way to know for sure would be to go to the Roamio's location and look to see what channels the tuners are sitting on. While you are there, you could arrange the tuners to be on the channels you want them to be on.
You could use the TiVo app to find out what is on each the tuner. It's a PITA since you have to do it one at a time.

Or if you have a computer where you are, you could use kmttg and get the info for all of the tuners at once.

Or some enterprising individual could create an Android app that does the same thing.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:44 PM   #18
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You could use the TiVo app to find out what is on each the tuner. It's a PITA since you have to do it one at a time.

Or if you have a computer where you are, you could use kmttg and get the info for all of the tuners at once.

Or some enterprising individual could create an Android app that does the same thing.
All for what? Nothing.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:56 PM   #19
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All for what? Nothing.
Gee, and here I was thinking that the object was to know what channels the tuners are on w/o actually being in the same location as the TiVo.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:23 AM   #20
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Gee, and here I was thinking that the object was to know what channels the tuners are on w/o actually being in the same location as the TiVo.
But once you know, that could change a second later. I know with my Romaio Pro I have 400+ recordings every two weeks. So the tuners are constantly changing to different channels.
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:32 AM   #21
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I'd really like to see a roamio running six tuners to six minis at the same time. Either same channel or different. Any though about how much CPU/GPU or disk speed impact that would create?
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:48 AM   #22
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But once you know, that could change a second later. I know with my Romaio Pro I have 400+ recordings every two weeks. So the tuners are constantly changing to different channels.
So? That applies even if you
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go to the Roamio's location and look to see what channels the tuners are sitting on.
My point was that it could be done remotely. I really don't care one way or the other about the usefulness of the exercise.
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Old 08-05-2014, 02:23 PM   #23
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Is any of that really worth the effort?
It might be if there are 2 sporting events that you want to watch live at the same time at the Mini's location and you want to be able to flip back and forth between them with the buffers intact it
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:59 PM   #24
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Gee, and here I was thinking that the object was to know what channels the tuners are on w/o actually being in the same location as the TiVo.
I was getting at the practical application of that. Of which there is none...

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But once you know, that could change a second later. I know with my Romaio Pro I have 400+ recordings every two weeks. So the tuners are constantly changing to different channels.
HOLY *&$%!!! 400!!!

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It might be if there are 2 sporting events that you want to watch live at the same time at the Mini's location and you want to be able to flip back and forth between them with the buffers intact it
Wouldn't you still lose a pause position though? And I don't think the Mini can get at a tuner that's recording. That's how I handled March Madness was on the XL4 directly with the games recording, so I could get to those tuners through the menu. You can't do that with a Mini...
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:15 PM   #25
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Wouldn't you still lose a pause position though? And I don't think the Mini can get at a tuner that's recording.
You get at the shows through the "My Shows" of the host. A bit cumbersome, but possible to switch back and forth (and you shouldn't lose the pause position with that mechanism).
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:44 PM   #26
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You get at the shows through the "My Shows" of the host. A bit cumbersome, but possible to switch back and forth (and you shouldn't lose the pause position with that mechanism).
That would be totally impractical when watching live sports and flipping between games...
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:27 PM   #27
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That would be totally impractical when watching live sports and flipping between games...
"Totally"? Why? You are missing absolutely no action of either game (and you don't care about being as "live" as possible because you're behind in the buffer in any case.)

How many remote clicks does it take to switch (I'm traveling at the moment)?
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:47 PM   #28
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"Totally"? Why? You are missing absolutely no action of either game (and you don't care about being as "live" as possible because you're behind in the buffer in any case.)

How many remote clicks does it take to switch (I'm traveling at the moment)?
Assuming it's two games of the same sport, for example 2 NFL games - 3. Back, up or down, play.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:49 PM   #29
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"Totally"? Why? You are missing absolutely no action of either game (and you don't care about being as "live" as possible because you're behind in the buffer in any case.)

How many remote clicks does it take to switch (I'm traveling at the moment)?
Too much menu movement to be practical. Hence why I located my TiVo where I am going to watch sports, and the Minis everywhere else...
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:00 PM   #30
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Too much menu movement to be practical. Hence why I located my TiVo where I am going to watch sports, and the Minis everywhere else...
Exact same number of remote clicks to switch between tuners for this purpose - Pause, Last, Play.
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