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Old 07-23-2014, 06:14 PM   #1
Intravino
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Audio Problem

Hi,

I'm having audio problems whit my TiVo HD. I previously had problems with the picture freezing and I replaced all of the capacitors on the PS with the help of the tutorial here at TC.

Now I have no audio sometimes at half of my channels and I know that it's not my source because I have OTA and I put the input on my TV and I did have audio.

Any Thoughts ?

Thanks,
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:12 PM   #2
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Try switching audio "Dolby to PCM."
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:17 PM   #3
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Are you using HDMI?
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThAbtO View Post
Try switching audio "Dolby to PCM."
Thanks, I will do that. It was on Dolby, only.


Quote:
Are you using HDMI?
Yes HDMI to the TV.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:50 PM   #5
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Try composite/component as the HDMI ports can go bad in TiVo HDs.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:10 PM   #6
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It did it again but also the video froze a bit during America's got talent.

I opened the AVR receiver and I had no audio from the optical output and the RCA outputs also.

Bummer!
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:41 AM   #7
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Did you ever remove the drive, connect it to a PC, and run the drive's manufacturer's diagnostic software's most in-depth test?
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:16 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by squint View Post
Did you ever remove the drive, connect it to a PC, and run the drive's manufacturer's diagnostic software's most in-depth test?
This. As soon as the problem went beyond audio-only, this would be my advice as well. TiVos are not capable of dealing with bad sectors, other than trying to work around them. Mfg diags can find and mark the sectors on the read test, sometimes recovering the sector. The "destructive" write tests will either reclaim the sector (in the case of a false pending result), or reallocate a "spare" sector in it's place.

There is some disagreement on bad sectors, around here. Some consider any reallocated sectors a sign of imminent drive failure. Others see it as "to be expected", since no platter is 100% defect-free.

The TiVo has the "Kickstart 54" diagnostics built-in, to perform limited tests on the drive. They are better than nothing, if you don't have access to a PC. They can do more than the TiVo can, when it's in the usual state of 24/7 processing of AV streams, and has to keep the data moving at all times.

Sometimes it's worth running the TiVo tests, since they can detect problems, and might give an instant "FAIL 7" result (which means it's time to run PC-based tests, or just replace the drive (which should be PC tested before installation).
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:56 AM   #9
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Any chance the TiVo is using the secondary audio program (SAP)? Some channels may not provide audio on the SAP.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by worachj View Post
Any chance the TiVo is using the secondary audio program (SAP)? Some channels may not provide audio on the SAP.
I don't think so because I lost the sound during a 2 hour show.

Quote:
The TiVo has the "Kickstart 54" diagnostics built-in, to perform limited tests on the drive. They are better than nothing, if you don't have access to a PC. They can do more than the TiVo can, when it's in the usual state of 24/7 processing of AV streams, and has to keep the data moving at all times.
I will run the Kickstart 54 program tonight and I will report.


Thanks Guys !
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:17 PM   #11
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I ran the test and it's ok. If you check my picture, the timer went to 45 minutes, I don't know if that is bad ???

I will pass the overnight automated test.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Intravino View Post

I ran the test and it's ok. If you check my picture, the timer went to 45 minutes, I don't know if that is bad ???

I will pass the overnight automated test.
That it took less time than estimated, completed, and passed, is a good sign.

Find your way into the SMART test for the individual first drive, where you can select individual tests, and post a screenshot of the smart attribute values screen.

You ran the essentially "run all tests on every drive detected option", which was step one. Now you want to single out the drive and view SMART details. There will be a bunch of values around 100 & 200 on that screen, and it doesn't require any more tests to view them.

Keep in mind that a PC and the mfg tools for the drive could still tell you more about the state of the drive. I'd be more comfortable with leaving the drive in, once I see those values (if they are good values). The values have to be pretty bad to make a fail result using TiVo diags.

The universal advice on a unit that age, with no warranty to void, is to test with a PC (if you want to be 100% sure of what's what). If that's the stock drive, it should be wearing-down by now, and it has served you well.

Lets see that other screen...

After that, there's KS 57 & 58, which repair corruption of data not related to drive issues. But, be aware, sometimes running either of those two can spontaneously cause corruption. KS 52 does a software reinstall to the alternate partition, which does a disk scan that is least likely to put you into a boot-looping GSOD condition. Don't forget to fill in the blanks on the drive that's in there, and how long it's been operating for.
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Old 07-26-2014, 12:32 AM   #13
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I ran the overnight full test and after 12 hours, it passed.

But I noticed that I recorded TMZ for a test yesterday and I had full pixelation, it was impossible to watch the show.

I think I will take out the drive and use my PC for the mfg tests.

I will report on the tests Monday.

Thanks,
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:19 AM   #14
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I ran Kickstart 57 this morning and I got this screen:


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Old 07-26-2014, 11:25 AM   #15
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I hope you're not stuck on that screen forever. That's what happened to me when I ran Kickstart 57 & 58 and why I'll probably never do it again.
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intravino View Post
I ran Kickstart 57 this morning and I got this screen:

If you've still got that screen say 6 hours after if first started with no reboots during that time, go ahead and unplug the power, let it sit for 10 minutes and plug it back in.

If it goes back to that screen you might be able to use WinMFS to rewrite the bootpage and swap boot partitions, and maybe revive it that way.


I really don't recommend using the TiVo to test the drive.

If it needs testing it needs to be pulled and hooked to a PC and the manufacturer's own long test run.
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Old 07-26-2014, 05:06 PM   #17
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This green screen of death went away after 30 minutes.

I will take-out the drive and test it with my PC and an external drive kit.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:18 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Intravino View Post
This green screen of death went away after 30 minutes.

I will take-out the drive and test it with my PC and an external drive kit.
This post is more for all those so quick to pounce on "worst case scenarios", simply because you posted a pic of the GSOD after running KS 57 (which is what is supposed to appear on the screen when KS 57 is running).

It was already first advised that you should test the drive with a PC. I gave you some alternatives, since you seemed reluctant to use a PC. There is also the matter of the PC testing only testing the integrity of the disk, not the integrity of the file system, data, and databases, which is what KS 57/58/52 all will do.

I did warn you of the fact that KS 57/58 could brick the TiVo, requiring re-imaging the drive (why this happens is not known).

I asked for the SMART values from the KS54 > Test /dev/hda/ > SMART tests > Show Status screen, before moving forward, and considering the other tests (which had somebody's panties twisted into a bundle, before you posted the process completed without issue).

I advised that KS 52 was the safer choice (overall, for in-TiVo testing/correcting), would do the same file system integrity checks, and re-install the current software to the alternate partition. For some reason, KS 52 only bricks a TiVo if there is something wrong with the hard drive (which would mean the drive was degrading, anyway), and it was on the way to failing.

Since TiVos of the age yours is don't get updates anymore, you stay on one partition/installation, while the alternate gets no read/write activity. By using KS52 at least once a year, you distribute the active areas of the disk, and have a form of wear-leveling, as a result/added bonus.

Since you seem to be running on the original drive, I will warn that it may pass every test, no matter how you test it, but the read/write times of the most-used sectors will have grown to slow enough to not work in a TiVo anymore. Slow sectors read & write, maintain integrity of the data, but are too slow for the TiVo to write/read them fast enough to not cause glitches.

To find out the sector access times, there are some tests built into KS 54 that create a graphical view of them. There are also PC tools for this. I have, and have had, many drives with too many slow sectors for TiVo use without AV problems, that will pass every test out there, SMART and beyond. Those that were under warranty got RMAs for replacement. The others are what I use for non-critical backups of my computers, or as non-critical storage for data that is not important to me.

If you are running a stock drive, which has had ~3-5 years of 24x7 use, or more, I'd advise just getting a new drive, getting an image from the image begging thread, and skip all this time and effort on a drive that may just be too slow, but will pass all the tests you throw at it. Money aside, you'd come out ahead that way. There are ways to keep your existing drive contents, and copy them to a new drive. There's no shortage of free tools for this, or threads that explain how to do it. You can even keep your data, move to a larger drive (2TB is easy), and reap all the benefits of a new drive.

Plug and play, pre-imaged drives, up to 2TB, can be bought from DVR_DUDE on ebay. But, you'd lose your existing content/settings. Other members here will do the same thing for less (or even for free, plus the cost of the drive and shipping).
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:11 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intravino View Post
This green screen of death went away after 30 minutes.
And then what happened?

Perspiring minds want to know!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Intravino View Post
I will take-out the drive and test it with my PC and an external drive kit.
Just remember that the drive can be physically fine and still have some scrambled software on it.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:59 PM   #20
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The TiVo is functional with no problems since the green screen.

I have an usb to sata interface to test the hd without opening the computer case. My case is huge and installed in a place that is not really accessible.

I'm sure the test will be slower.

I think I'm going to get a new HD anyways, mine is always full.

So I can get 2TB for this TiVo hd?

What about this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822236603

Which places do you recommend for HD's?

Thanks nooneuknow and unitron for your help.

Last edited by Intravino : 07-27-2014 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 07-27-2014, 05:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intravino View Post
The TiVo is functional with no problems since the green screen.

I have an usb to sata interface to test the hd without opening the computer case. My case is huge and installed in a place that is not really accessible.

I'm sure the test will be slower.

I think I'm going to get a new HD anyways, mine is always full.

So I can get 2TB for this TiVo hd?

What about this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822236603

Which places do you recommend for HD's?

Thanks nooneuknow and unitron for your help.
That will work just fine. It's the same drive TiVo uses in 2TB TiVos.

I'd skip any further testing, or time spent on the old drive, unless you just have nothing better to do, once you have the new one. USB 2.0 is excruciatingly slow. USB 3.0 is just as fast SATA-III (When it comes to the speeds platter drives can even realistically reach, even with the high-performance drives).
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-27-2014 at 08:51 PM. Reason: removed wrong drive link
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Old 07-27-2014, 05:51 PM   #22
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Just remember that the drive can be physically fine and still have some scrambled software on it.
I don't think I could have made that any clearer, or any more repetitive. Yet, you were quick to take a jab when I posted the ONLY ways to fix such "scrambled software", other than writing a new image to the drive (which still results in a loss of all drive content).

The Green Screen Boot Loop Of Death did not happen. The sky did not fall.
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-27-2014 at 06:07 PM. Reason: context
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:12 PM   #23
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This one is the newer model, will work, and is $20 cheaper: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822136941
But it's 1 TB instead of 2 TB (the older model).
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Old 07-27-2014, 07:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intravino View Post
The TiVo is functional with no problems since the green screen.

I have an usb to sata interface to test the hd without opening the computer case. My case is huge and installed in a place that is not really accessible.

I'm sure the test will be slower.

I think I'm going to get a new HD anyways, mine is always full.

So I can get 2TB for this TiVo hd?

What about this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822236603

Which places do you recommend for HD's?

Thanks nooneuknow and unitron for your help.

The WD20EURX is the newer version of the WD20EURS, and lots of either have been successfully used in the 3 Series 3 models.

You should be able to buy either with confidence from newegg or Amazon (just make sure you're buying directly from one of them and not from one of their "marketplace associates" or whatever they're calling them these days).

But if you're not in a huge hurry one or the other should have one of those drive models on sale again before too terribly long for $80 or $90 including shipping.

Just be sure to run WD's own long test on it before putting it into service.
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:57 PM   #25
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But it's 1 TB instead of 2 TB (the older model).
Yeah, my bad. Newegg's linking of "newer model available" products is messed-up. I corrected my post, and you could edit that link out of yours, so nobody gets confused.

Sorry about that. I must have a bad capacitor somewhere, passing ripple into my accuracy checking module.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:10 AM   #26
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I ordered the 1 TB "newer" model.

I read on this forum that if you have a Gigabyte MB, you can have a problem with formatting or imaging the new HD. Is this true ?

Thanks,


Intravino
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:30 AM   #27
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I ordered the 1 TB "newer" model.

I read on this forum that if you have a Gigabyte MB, you can have a problem with formatting or imaging the new HD. Is this true ?

Thanks,


Intravino
Yes, in some cases. Make sure your BIOS is up to date, then go check for a setting that references "making a backup" of your BIOS, BIOS settings, or both "to the hard drive", or something to that effect, and disable it (once sure that is what you wish to disable. Also, do a backup of your BIOS settings to some sort of external media, if possible, before updating it.

I'll actually invite unitron to convene his "The HPA (Host Protected Area) 101" class, or you could google/wiki your way to the details, while waiting for your drive.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:29 PM   #28
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I'm pretty sure that GigaByte deals with BIOS backup by having 2 actual BIOS chips on the motherboard, and that the reason it puts a "Host Protected Area" (a sort of hidden partition) on the end of what it considers the "first" drive is for some sort of system files backup.

I don't know if their newer boards still do it, or if they do but offer a way to turn it off, but the ones from about 6 years ago just do it without warning and there's no way to defeat it.

They assume that the "first" drive is going to be the boot drive and that you're going to install Windows on it.


It's not necessarily a problem unless for some reason you're counting on the drive being as "big" as it says it is on the label, like say if it's one of two or more that are going to be used in a RAID setup, or if there's already something on all of the drive, like say a TiVo image, that it doesn't recognize because it's not the usual DOS-style Master Boot Record and partition map, or if you're going to put a TiVo image on it and it's only as big as the drive from which the image was originally made, which is the minimum amount of space you'll need for restoring that image.

The way around the problem is to have a drive permanently installed on the "first" partition so it can write to it and then see that it has already done so everytime the computer boots up. If it has that to keep it happy it'll leave any other connected drives alone.

By "first" drive, I mean either the lowest number SATA port (1 or 0, depending on where they start the count) if it only has SATA ports, or the Primary Master IDE/PATA drive if the board has both PATA and SATA ports.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:32 PM   #29
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I ordered the 1 TB "newer" model.

I read on this forum that if you have a Gigabyte MB, you can have a problem with formatting or imaging the new HD. Is this true ?

Thanks,


Intravino

The good news is that when you decide you wished you'd gone with a 2TB in the first place, WinMFS can copy the 1TB to a 2TB and then, but do it as a separate step, expand that last MFS Media partition to take advantage of the extra space.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:22 PM   #30
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I'm pretty sure that GigaByte deals with BIOS backup by having 2 actual BIOS chips on the motherboard, and that the reason it puts a "Host Protected Area" (a sort of hidden partition) on the end of what it considers the "first" drive is for some sort of system files backup.

I don't know if their newer boards still do it, or if they do but offer a way to turn it off, but the ones from about 6 years ago just do it without warning and there's no way to defeat it.

They assume that the "first" drive is going to be the boot drive and that you're going to install Windows on it.


It's not necessarily a problem unless for some reason you're counting on the drive being as "big" as it says it is on the label, like say if it's one of two or more that are going to be used in a RAID setup, or if there's already something on all of the drive, like say a TiVo image, that it doesn't recognize because it's not the usual DOS-style Master Boot Record and partition map, or if you're going to put a TiVo image on it and it's only as big as the drive from which the image was originally made, which is the minimum amount of space you'll need for restoring that image.

The way around the problem is to have a drive permanently installed on the "first" partition so it can write to it and then see that it has already done so everytime the computer boots up. If it has that to keep it happy it'll leave any other connected drives alone.

By "first" drive, I mean either the lowest number SATA port (1 or 0, depending on where they start the count) if it only has SATA ports, or the Primary Master IDE/PATA drive if the board has both PATA and SATA ports.
Just some added input:

Gigabyte used/tried multiple ways to help insure that both the BIOS and BIOS settings could be recovered from a backup (or switched to if one bricked the system). One way was dual BIOS chips. Another way was by using the first hard drive to make a BIOS chip backup image, instead of using another BIOS chip. I recall one option for backing up all the BIOS settings was to the drive, via HPA, to insure the backup could be made regardless of OS and file system, and would not be lost if the drive was reformatted.

There was never any "system files" being backed-up by the mainboard/BIOS. That was another feature, by which you could make a "boot drive backup capsule", which was done by software which ran inside of Windows. If the software was not installed, the HPA would never be made by it. It was like how Acronis or Paragon do the same thing, if you allow them to do so.

I have a GA-P35C board with a single BIOS chip, and the shipping BIOS just made the HPA, and backup up the BIOS, without the user knowing about it (unless they read the manual, and assumed it was via HPA), with no option to toggle it. One BIOS update added a toggle, another made it disabled by default, with a toggle.

The other problem is when you change settings in the BIOS, you can change what is considered the "first" drive. I could have four drives attached, make two setting changes, twice, and wind up with the HPA on all four drives attached, with only one being necessary. Turning the function off, or changing settings resulting in drive priority/enumeration changes, never removes the HPA. That must be done manually, with tools not provided by Gigabyte.

The HPA mess can, in fact, be "defeated". It was just impossible to keep it defeated, until those boards from 6 years ago updated to a BIOS with a toggle.

If one were to make use of a DCO (Drive Configuration Overlay), locking down the HPA function as disabled (by the drive itself), the drive would not allow a HPA, regardless of BIOS, or software, trying to make a HPA. If locking down the HPA is the only change made using a DCO, the DCO should not even need to be removed, before using the drive in a TiVo (or anything else, unless HPA being disabled is a showstopper).
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