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Old 07-24-2014, 12:26 PM   #331
rodeho
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Crispy,

I have not even tried to set up the Mini yet. The issue right now is establishing a MoCA network connection at the Roamio Plus. I keep receiving error code C33.

Yes, the internet is working as it did before. Have not noticed any drop-off. If anything it may be running faster.

With the original setup, see attached, would the MoCA be able to traverse back through the amp to reach the Plus and Mini? I was having issues with this setup so that is why I moved the amp. Yet I am still having the issue.

Thanks for your suggestions.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:40 PM   #332
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Crispy,

I have not even tried to set up the Mini yet. The issue right now is establishing a MoCA network connection at the Roamio Plus. I keep receiving error code C33.

Yes, the internet is working as it did before. Have not noticed any drop-off. If anything it may be running faster.

With the original setup, see attached, would the MoCA be able to traverse back through the amp to reach the Plus and Mini? I was having issues with this setup so that is why I moved the amp. Yet I am still having the issue.

Thanks for your suggestions.
Yes in that setup, you would have problems with going through the amp.

There is no need for the MoCA adapter to be on the same side of the original split as your cable modem. Can you move it to the other side (post amp and 3 way splitter as in your first diagram)? The MoCA adapter needs to have an ethernet connection to your router, but doesn't need a clean coax connection to your modem at all (it needs the clean coax connection to your TiVos). By clean, I mean a connection not through the amp or the POE filter.

Reminder that there are two settings on the Roamio for MoCA - one meant if it is doing the bridging, and one not. Make sure you've got the right one there.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:25 PM   #333
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I am not sure I follow you completely. I installed the MoCA adapter as per the manufacturer's instructions.

As I try and understand what you are saying, as an example, move the adapter to the outlet just before it hits the mini? Getting a Cat5e back to the router won't be easy. I have it set up like this because the router, modem, and MoCA adapter are all located in one central location.

And with my current setup, isn't it a "clean" connection because everything is on at least the output side of the 3-way splitter which is downstream of the amp and POE filter?

For the network setting on the Roamio, I am using the "Connect using MoCA" setting because as I understand it, the "Create a MoCA Network" setting would be if I were bridging the coax to ethernet. I can't do this because I do not have access to a direct connection between the router and Roamio via Cat5e.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:43 PM   #334
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Judging from the current layout, everything is post-amp so it shouldn't (in theory) be a problem for moca, but I'm also wondering what the results would be without the amp, in case it's blowing things out of spec.

The amp doesn't seem all that necessary given the layout -- the Roamio being the only active cable receiver, and it's connected to the primary splitter. Low hanging fruit is to try without the amp first. If the Roamio and moca adapter still can't see each other even though they're connected to the same splitter, then I'd think something's wonky with the splitter or one of those two coax runs.

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Old 07-24-2014, 01:56 PM   #335
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Judging from the current layout, everything is post-amp so it shouldn't (in theory) be a problem for moca, but I'm also wondering what the results would be without the amp, in case it's blowing things out of spec.

The amp doesn't seem all that necessary given the layout -- the Roamio being the only active cable receiver, and it's connected to the primary splitter. Low hanging fruit is to omit the amp first. If nothing yet, next step is replace the 3-way splitter.
Thanks for the response BigJim.

I will try bypassing the amp as soon as I go home today and report back.

As far as the splitter, the cable tech replaced that yesterday so I am assuming it is new(ish). But it can't hurt regardless.

Thank you for your suggestions.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:59 PM   #336
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Edited my post slightly.


(And of course remember to reboot/power cycle everything after the change.)

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Old 07-24-2014, 02:24 PM   #337
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Judging from the current layout, everything is post-amp so it shouldn't (in theory) be a problem for moca, but I'm also wondering what the results would be without the amp, in case it's blowing things out of spec.

The amp doesn't seem all that necessary given the layout -- the Roamio being the only active cable receiver, and it's connected to the primary splitter. Low hanging fruit is to try without the amp first. If the Roamio and moca adapter still can't see each other even though they're connected to the same splitter, then I'd think something's wonky with the splitter or one of those two coax runs.
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Edited my post slightly.


(And of course remember to reboot/power cycle everything after the change.)
The run to the modem seems to be OK. As I stated in my initial post, we split that feed, after the wall outlet, between the modem and the Roamio (cable across the floor). This seemed to allow the Roamio to connect using MoCA.

So my initial thought was like you, that the run to the Roamio from the splitter is bad. Not sure if it matters as I know they operate at different frequencies but we get all the channels on our TV package with this feed. And when you say wonky what does that normally entail as far as remedying?

Thanks!

Last edited by rodeho : 07-24-2014 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Added addtional info
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:12 PM   #338
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The run to the modem seems to be OK. As I stated in my initial post, we split that feed, after the wall outlet, between the modem and the Roamio (cable across the floor). This seemed to allow the Roamio to connect using MoCA.

So my initial thought was like you, that the run to the Roamio from the splitter is bad. Not sure if it matters as I know they operate at different frequencies but we get all the channels on our TV package with this feed. And when you say wonky what does that normally entail as far as remedying?

Thanks!
Well, if there's something wrong with the splitter or coax line (age, damage, etc) it basically requires replacing. If there are barrel connectors or coax outlets along the coax run, they should be within moca spec also (at least 1000MHz and not too old). And the coax should be RG6 (the thick, solid, hard to bend kind) and not RG5 (thin, pliable).

As you mentioned in your first post, you can move the Roamio around to other outlets to narrow it down to that particular coax run. Based on the diagram it should be working, so if the amp isn't borking things, all that's left is a questionable coax or splitter.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:38 PM   #339
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Well, if there's something wrong with the splitter or coax line (age, damage, etc) it basically requires replacing. If there are barrel connectors or coax outlets along the coax run, they should be within moca spec also (at least 1000MHz and not too old). And the coax should be RG6 (the thick, solid, hard to bend kind) and not RG5 (thin, pliable).

As you mentioned in your first post, you can move the Roamio around to other outlets to narrow it down to that particular coax run. Based on the diagram it should be working, so if the amp isn't borking things, all that's left is a questionable coax or splitter.
Awesome. I will definitely be at it over the next few days. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:04 PM   #340
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A dumb question in the meantime - is there a way to tell where exactly to put the POE filter? I have multiple cable outlets in my house and from Comcast's last few tech visits they are complete idiots.

...the greatest moment was when they said cablecards only support 2 channels.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:45 PM   #341
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A dumb question in the meantime - is there a way to tell where exactly to put the POE filter? I have multiple cable outlets in my house and from Comcast's last few tech visits they are complete idiots. ...the greatest moment was when they said cablecards only support 2 channels.
POE stands for Point of Entry, so that's where you want it. At the POE of your cable tv coax coming into your home.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:46 PM   #342
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@rodeho, have you tried changing moca channels/frequencies?
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:46 PM   #343
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A dumb question in the meantime - is there a way to tell where exactly to put the POE filter? I have multiple cable outlets in my house and from Comcast's last few tech visits they are complete idiots.
EDIT/INSERT: I see two posts made it in before this one did. Both are from the same member that always seems to pull that off...

In most situations, where no amps are involved, the most important PoE filter goes at the first place you can install it, before any splits occur (the true point of entry).

If you happen to have Cisco-brand TA's in the market you are in, most don't know that they have an amp (more of an "equalizer") to the "OUT" coax port, making them unable to let MoCA through, causing malfunctions, and thus requiring the additional PoE filters for each TA, as my current signature describes. IIRC, Comcast doesn't use TA's (or stopped using them).

Additional PoE filters are also sometimes needed for cable modems, or any other coax-connected device that doesn't have one built in, and underperforms/malfunctions due to the high-power MoCA band getting in.

In your situation, if you are left with a bunch of unused wall-plates, or open ports anywhere, they should have installed terminators on them. You can buy them at Home Depot. But, it shouldn't be your problem if that's how they left things.

PoE filters are also good for isolating the MoCA to only where it needs to go to, reflecting back the signals, and sometimes increasing MoCA performance. But, with unterminated/open ports and/or wall-plates, all bets are off on much of anything working as good as it should, or could.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:10 AM   #344
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@rodeho, have you tried changing moca channels/frequencies?
I did. I went through every single one of them (15 through 29 I think - odd's only) and received the same C33 error. That was before we made all the configuration changes. Maybe I should try it again. Just getting frustrated.

Thanks for the suggestion Harper!

Last edited by rodeho : 07-25-2014 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:19 AM   #345
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As an update to my situation...

I bypassed the amp last night and this didn't do anything to get the MoCA up and running. Tonight I will relocate to a different room or rather extend a long enough coax to the current location from another outlet. I will update tonight.

I am beginning to think more and more that it is the feed serving the Roamio's current location. But it just baffles me that almost two years ago when Cox was setting up our Whole Home DVR system with 3 receivers, they ran new feeds to each of the DVR's. One of which where the Roamio sits now. Go figure.
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:55 PM   #346
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I did. I went through every single one of them (15 through 29 I think - odd's only) and received the same C33 error. That was before we made all the configuration changes. Maybe I should try it again. Just getting frustrated. Thanks for the suggestion Harper!
Anytime! Did you reboot after each change? (Not sure if you need to, but worth a shot, huh?)
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Old 07-26-2014, 01:22 PM   #347
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Well guys, I feel like an idiot. There was a POE filter on the coax feed coming into the modem that I never saw. It must have been installed by the cable company??? Luckily my Mom dropped something behind the piece of furniture where the cable and filter were located or else I never would have seen it. I was fixing to tear apart the house looking for splitters to replace.

Thanks for all the help this thread has provided. Hopefully someone can learn from my misfortunes. My lesson from all of this is to check everything. And check it again. Something as simple as a filter in the wrong spot can make for some frustrating times.
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Old 07-26-2014, 01:31 PM   #348
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Glad things are working now.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:13 AM   #349
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Well guys, I feel like an idiot. There was a POE filter on the coax feed coming into the modem that I never saw. It must have been installed by the cable company??? Luckily my Mom dropped something behind the piece of furniture where the cable and filter were located or else I never would have seen it. I was fixing to tear apart the house looking for splitters to replace.

Thanks for all the help this thread has provided. Hopefully someone can learn from my misfortunes. My lesson from all of this is to check everything. And check it again. Something as simple as a filter in the wrong spot can make for some frustrating times.
Is there any way you could make a diagram of what your configuration is now, and maybe what it was before? Members with amps in use tend to be very hard for most of us to advise on, with MoCA and where PoE filters need to go, as well as where the amp should/shouldn't be. The model/part number of the amp is important as well. Very few are "MoCA friendly". Those that aren't, will always be an issue waiting to happen (when changes are made).

Your conclusion was spot-on. Inspect every connection from the actual point of entry/demarcation point, to each downstream splitter/amp and the endpoint of each run.

The downside of wallplates is that things like filters and splitters can be behind the plate, and you can't know what is there, unless you were the last person to have the faceplate off. Even then, some have had to pull out all the slack, to find splitters that are inside the wall. Some wallplates have a box behind the plate, while others have just a folding metal piece to screw the faceplate to, and it's just a hole to inside the drywall (this is where the pulling out all the slack, to check for inline devices, is necessary).
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-27-2014 at 08:55 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:36 AM   #350
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Quick question. I set up a MOCA network in my house to extend my wireless network (eg, upstairs bedroom has coax cable--->MOCA adapter---->ethernet cable out--->airport express). If I add a Tivo mini to this my choice is connecting an ethernet cable from the airport express LAN port to the Mini, or split the coax cable with one leg of the split going to the Mini and activating the MOCA function of the Mini. Any reason to do one over the other? Thanks
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:26 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by ernda View Post
Quick question. I set up a MOCA network in my house to extend my wireless network (eg, upstairs bedroom has coax cable--->MOCA adapter---->ethernet cable out--->airport express). If I add a Tivo mini to this my choice is connecting an ethernet cable from the airport express LAN port to the Mini, or split the coax cable with one leg of the split going to the Mini and activating the MOCA function of the Mini. Any reason to do one over the other? Thanks
Is the Mini located at the same location as the router? Where is the main unit (ie: Roamio Plus?) located? MoCA is the recommended method by Tivo. I can't get into the technicalities of it as I just don't know enough about the two but I do know it has been discussed in this thread and others on this site. I am sure someone here can help with explaining the differences.

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Old 07-27-2014, 11:36 AM   #352
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Is there any way you could make a diagram of what your configuration is now, and maybe what it was before? Members with amps in use tend to be very hard for most of use to advise on, with MoCA and where PoE filters need to go, as well as where the amp should/shouldn't be. The model/part number of the amp is important as well. Very few are "MoCA friendly". Those that aren't, will always be an issue waiting to happen (when changes are made).

Your conclusion was spot-on. Inspect every connection from the actual point of entry/demarcation point, to each downstream splitter/amp and the endpoint of each run.

The downside of wallplates is that things like filters and splitters can be behind the plate, and you can't know what is there, unless you were the last person to have the faceplate off. Even then, some have had to pull out all the slack, to find splitters that are inside the wall. Some wallplates have a box behind the plate, while others have just a folding metal piece to screw the faceplate to, and it's just a hole to inside the drywall (this is where the pulling out all the slack, to check for inline devices, is necessary).
I sure can. I will try and do it without making things confusing.

My first configuration prior to any modifications is the image titled, "CableWiring-Old." Keep in mind that POE filter on the input side of the modem was the final reason as to why I could not get the MoCA working (I was unaware of it's existence at the time).

The cabling was reconfigured to the image titled, "CableWiring-2ndConfig." As a note...with the amp located where it was in "CableWiring-Old," I moved it ahead of everything in the system. I did this because amps can prevent the MoCA from passing through to other devices. This did not resolve the issue but again, I was unaware of the POE filter on the input side of the modem. Maybe someone can verify or comment as to whether or not this amp would have been OK in the "CableWiring-Old" configuration?

I got lucky in finding the POE filter on the input side of the modem. Once removed this allowed the MoCA to roam free. And this leads to the final configuration titled, "CableWiring-Final."

Clear as mud?
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File Type: jpg CableWiring-Final.jpg (41.1 KB, 22 views)
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Old 07-27-2014, 01:43 PM   #353
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Quick question. I set up a MOCA network in my house to extend my wireless network (eg, upstairs bedroom has coax cable--->MOCA adapter---->ethernet cable out--->airport express). If I add a Tivo mini to this my choice is connecting an ethernet cable from the airport express LAN port to the Mini, or split the coax cable with one leg of the split going to the Mini and activating the MOCA function of the Mini. Any reason to do one over the other? Thanks
Your choice in that scenario. But I'd do ethernet since it's already there. (I try to keep coax splits to a minimum.)

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Old 07-27-2014, 04:30 PM   #354
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Your choice in that scenario. But I'd do ethernet since it's already there. (I try to keep coax splits to a minimum.)
I agree, and also why add an extra demodulator (in the mini, which is going to just convert it to Ethernet anyway) when it's not necessary?
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:24 PM   #355
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I sure can. I will try and do it without making things confusing.

My first configuration prior to any modifications is the image titled, "CableWiring-Old." Keep in mind that POE filter on the input side of the modem was the final reason as to why I could not get the MoCA working (I was unaware of it's existence at the time).

The cabling was reconfigured to the image titled, "CableWiring-2ndConfig." As a note...with the amp located where it was in "CableWiring-Old," I moved it ahead of everything in the system. I did this because amps can prevent the MoCA from passing through to other devices. This did not resolve the issue but again, I was unaware of the POE filter on the input side of the modem. Maybe someone can verify or comment as to whether or not this amp would have been OK in the "CableWiring-Old" configuration?

I got lucky in finding the POE filter on the input side of the modem. Once removed this allowed the MoCA to roam free. And this leads to the final configuration titled, "CableWiring-Final."

Clear as mud?
Great job on the diagrams! You also went the right direction with the amp.

Unless the amp specifies it has a passive (non amplified) MoCA pass-through, MoCA will not get through/past any of the amp ports. It would need a pass-band in the MoCA range to let it through. Some might mistakenly think a 2GHz amp would work. That won't work, because you don't want the MoCA amplified. Even a 2GHz amp might not pass MoCA between multiple out ports, unless designed to do so.

The only thing I might do differently, would be to put the PoE filter on the out port of your amp (since it only has one out port). Just because the amp can't pass the MoCA, doesn't mean it properly rejects it, in the way a PoE filter does (reflecting it back). Some amps might malfunction if exposed to MoCA, unless they specify they have a filter built-in (just like some cable modems, tuning adapters, and other devices not specifically designed to deal with the high-power and high-frequency MoCA signals).
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:02 AM   #356
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Great job on the diagrams! You also went the right direction with the amp.

Unless the amp specifies it has a passive (non amplified) MoCA pass-through, MoCA will not get through/past any of the amp ports. It would need a pass-band in the MoCA range to let it through. Some might mistakenly think a 2GHz amp would work. That won't work, because you don't want the MoCA amplified. Even a 2GHz amp might not pass MoCA between multiple out ports, unless designed to do so.

The only thing I might do differently, would be to put the PoE filter on the out port of your amp (since it only has one out port). Just because the amp can't pass the MoCA, doesn't mean it properly rejects it, in the way a PoE filter does (reflecting it back). Some amps might malfunction if exposed to MoCA, unless they specify they have a filter built-in (just like some cable modems, tuning adapters, and other devices not specifically designed to deal with the high-power and high-frequency MoCA signals).
Thanks! And thank you for the explanation on the amp.

I will definitely do exactly as you stated with the location of the POE filter. After reading through this thread and seeing what you guys said about the filter being able to reflect back the MoCA signal, I should have known better. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:53 PM   #357
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Pro Tip:

Using MoCA setup option #2? Connect your Smart TV, Blu-ray player, Roku, or other device to the Tivo's Ethernet port! Those devices can daisy chain off your Tivo's MoCA connection. (If you want to connect multiple devices, you can get a cheap Ethernet hub and plug it into the Tivo's port too.)


If there are ideas or things missed in the guide (but remember it's not a complete and total MoCA FAQ, just a setup guide) then post them here. I'll add them!
I'm hoping someone can answer this. I need to add an access point to a room where a TiVo box with built in MoCA (Roamio Plus) is located. Does the above stated Pro Tip mean I can plug in my wireless access point via ethernet to the TiVo's ethernet port and have it get internet connection via the TiVo MoCA network?

Also, in another room (large house) I need to add a second access point and wanted to connect it via the MoCA network. I should be able to do this by only buying one MoCA ethernet adapter and putting it in that room, connect the AP to that adapter and have it connect via the existing MoCA network?

For details, my main Roamio Pro creates the MoCA network downstairs and is connected to my router via an ethernet cable.
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:26 PM   #358
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I had not seen this previously covered :-)

My Comcast cable modem (required for telephone) is in bridge mode only as I have a dual-band gig router behind it providing all my wifi needs.

Are there any known issues using the above that I need to know beforehand before installing a moca network?

And, did I read correctly that my Tivo Roamio Pro will no longer use wifi once the moca network has been made?

Thanks
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:51 PM   #359
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POE stands for Point of Entry, so that's where you want it. At the POE of your cable tv coax coming into your home.
Yeah the Comcast rep just came to install the POE so I'm good there.

Even after reading this thread I'm still a bit confused about what hardware I'll need, although admittedly my head is swimming a bit - I'm probably over-complicating things.

Here's my current setup -

Room 1 - Cable modem, Netgear R6100 Wireless Router. My main PC is wired into the router.

Room 2 - TiVo Premiere, Vizio Smart TV, and soon a Roku. Sometimes an iPad.

Room 3 - a Mac

Room 4 - where most mobile devices are used, mostly iPads.

All 4 rooms have coax outlets and currently rooms 2, 3, and 4 connect via wireless.

I'm a bit confused about the hardware I'll need as far as adapters and splitters, particularly in room 2 where there will (soon) be 3 devices using MoCA.
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:55 AM   #360
Farplaner
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Hickory View Post
I had not seen this previously covered :-)

My Comcast cable modem (required for telephone) is in bridge mode only as I have a dual-band gig router behind it providing all my wifi needs.

Are there any known issues using the above that I need to know beforehand before installing a moca network?

And, did I read correctly that my Tivo Roamio Pro will no longer use wifi once the moca network has been made?

Thanks
Just connect a MoCA adapter's ethernet port to a LAN port of your gigabit router, and the coax of the adapter to the wall coax outlet.

That's it! Your Tivo Roamio Pro (after going to the menu to select the MoCA connection) will now get data from MoCA rather than wifi.
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