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Old 07-15-2014, 09:50 PM   #1
consumedsoul
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Comcast, TiVo Working On Non-CableCARD Approach

Interesting...

http://www.multichannel.com/news/tv-...pproach/375989

"To Support Comcast’s Linear TV & VOD Mix on TiVo Boxes Sans Security Modules"
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:54 PM   #2
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From an article linked to the one you posted:

Quote:
TiVo and Cox Communications are working on a similar plan to integrate Cox’s VOD service with retail-bought TiVo boxes. In that scenario, Cox is looking to deliver VOD content to retail TiVo devices via IP – the same way it’s delivering VOD to its “Contour” app for tablets.
Welcome words to see in a recent/current article...

However, given the way the first VOD "agreement", still in TiVo's press-release archives, fell-apart with so much finger pointing between Cox & TiVo as to which party dropped the ball, I've learned my lesson about getting my hopes up...

Thanks for the heads-up!
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:47 AM   #3
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Sounds great unless it becomes another one-off downloadable security solution, a la the disastrous FCC decision to let Charter roll their own. The good thing about this is that Comcast is a leader and if they come up with something decent and are willing to let others have it, it could solve the whole Cablecard successor question.

But then again, this is Comcast we're talking about. And this thread really belongs in the Coffee House forum here.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:40 AM   #4
L David Matheny
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
From an article linked to the one you posted:

Quote:
TiVo and Cox Communications are working on a similar plan to integrate Cox’s VOD service with retail-bought TiVo boxes. In that scenario, Cox is looking to deliver VOD content to retail TiVo devices via IP – the same way it’s delivering VOD to its “Contour” app for tablets.
Welcome words to see in a recent/current article...
"Video On Demand" has traditionally referred to on-demand content delivered over a regular cable channel to a regular cable tuner. Are they talking about using an IP connection only to set up such a feed, or are they going to just deliver IP streaming video and call it VOD?
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:01 PM   #5
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The Comcast announcement is certainly good news!
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:14 PM   #6
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Sounds like the inevitable future of TV moving to a more VOD style as opposed to the current broadcast method with VOD tacked on.

Something that major is probably a decade or more away but it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see it happen. This potentially gives much more control back to the companies on advertising and reduces hardware / support costs substantially.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:38 PM   #7
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VOD now = no skip or FF. No capability to transfer programs to pc.

All TiVos - the future = the same?
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by leswar View Post
VOD now = no skip or FF. No capability to transfer programs to pc.

All TiVos - the future = the same?
This is exactly why I didn't care about losing access to Time Warner Cable's VOD when I switched to TiVo from their crappy DVR. If I have to sit through commercials to watch VOD, then it is completely worthless to me.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:40 PM   #9
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two-way security platform

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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Sounds great unless it becomes another one-off downloadable security solution, a la the disastrous FCC decision to let Charter roll their own. The good thing about this is that Comcast is a leader and if they come up with something decent and are willing to let others have it, it could solve the whole Cablecard successor question.
TiVo and Comcast have agreed to collaborate on a two-way, non-CableCARD security platform that would enable TiVo boxes bought at retail to access Comcast’s full lineup of linear programming as well as the MSO’s video-on-demand service. TiVo and Comcast [...] didn’t go into explicit technical detail on how the non-CableCARD approach would work, though it's possible that the intended approach would use a downloadable version of video security.

But they did note that Comcast will make the solution available to other cable operators “on commercially reasonable terms.” - See more at: http://www.multichannel.com/news/tv-....r9pKiTry.dpuf

TiVo's involvement means a non-CableCARD solution is being worked on today and not years from now when the cable industry got around to it. And it makes sure that the solution works with retail TiVo's but also is available for license by ALL cable operators - both large and small.

And the solution will no doubt work with Satellite operators.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:01 PM   #10
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This announcement is like having a meeting to plan a meeting.

Also seems like we already had that feeling things were moving this direction. There are cheaper ways to do security than cablecard.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:08 PM   #11
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Well isn't that just dandy. Instead of a single, industry-wide standard, we get a proprietary Comcast standard that "Comcast will make available to other cable operators 'on commercially reasonable terms.'" Whatever the hell that means. And of course other cable (and satellite) operators will be under no obligation to adopt the new "Comcast standard". Nor will they be deterred from coming up with their own, incompatible proprietary standards. Forgive me if I seem less than hopeful about this news.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:36 PM   #12
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Well isn't that just dandy. Instead of a single, industry-wide standard, we get a proprietary Comcast standard that "Comcast will make available to other cable operators 'on commercially reasonable terms.'" Whatever the hell that means. And of course other cable (and satellite) operators will be under no obligation to adopt the new "Comcast standard". Nor will they be deterred from coming up with their own, incompatible proprietary standards. Forgive me if I seem less than hopeful about this news.
Also if TiVo has to change the hardware, that means a new box to replace the Roamio, that a bummer. But could a downloadable security go into a special board that fits into the existing cable card slot in the TiVo (Roamio), that would have great value IMHO.
Another problem for TiVo customers, is that the used market for Cable card TiVos would go down the drain if the cable card slot could no longer be used.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:42 PM   #13
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Another problem for TiVo customers, is that the used market for Cable card TiVos would go down the drain if the cable card slot could no longer be used.
Particularly for the Roamio Plus and Pro, since they can't even do OTA. They would essentially become worthless as soon as the CableCard standard is defunct, unless there were some sort of way to retrofit them to accept downloadable security rather than a CableCard. Perhaps there could be some kind of gateway device that could accept the new downloadable security and could then interface with the old TiVos through the CableCard slot or maybe the USB port.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:53 PM   #14
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Why is everyone is assuming that Comcast implementing this new "downloadable" security tech will all of a sudden make CableCards defunct? Those will continue to work for the foreseeable future and there's nothing that has been announced yet that indicates that the software solution couldn't work on older TiVo's.

It can be a pure software solution, which would work on all TiVos, or it could be a combination software/hardware solution, in which case CableCards will continue to be supported.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:41 PM   #15
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Particularly for the Roamio Plus and Pro, since they can't even do OTA. They would essentially become worthless as soon as the CableCard standard is defunct, unless there were some sort of way to retrofit them to accept downloadable security rather than a CableCard.
I know we can't always trust what Comcast says, but the article did quote them:
“Comcast will ensure that all CableCARD-enabled devices will continue to have access to all linear channels in all Comcast markets,” they added.

I was wondering if that meant that our current Tivo VOD capabilities might not be continued in the new structure.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:44 PM   #16
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"Video On Demand" has traditionally referred to on-demand content delivered over a regular cable channel to a regular cable tuner. Are they talking about using an IP connection only to set up such a feed, or are they going to just deliver IP streaming video and call it VOD?
I have no idea. It said the same way as Contour, which their newest whole-home DVR system, that seems mostly useless without owning at least one iPad (which they don't exactly point out as what everybody in the commercials is using to make all the things happen). I did a poll of people I know who don't have tablets, and they all thought that the device in the commercials (iPad) was part of what the package provided. For their Contour system to be as wonderful as they make it out to be, every person would need an iPad, or everybody would have to learn how to share an iPad (yeah, right)...

Short answer: Even if I asked Cox what the deal is, or will be, I have learned not to believe them. Even the Contour printed materials are hard to fully understand (and even Cox reps agree on that). I still don't fully understand the Contour system, after trying to understand it, every which way...

Additional comments: Any device/system that revolves around owning an iProduct, is one I'll never want, nor be convinced to get an iProduct to use.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:53 PM   #17
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This announcement is like having a meeting to plan a meeting.
I 100% agree with that! I've already put it in the "filter it out as noise, until proof it is happening is provided" column.

There are also some valid points made since my initial positive response, that have me thinking "blessing or curse?".

Actually, I'm already far more in the negative as to what might come out of this. But, I'll leave the speculation, and arguments about the speculation, to everybody else. I will speculate that this is about to become "one of those threads...".
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:16 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by tarheelblue32 View Post
This is exactly why I didn't care about losing access to Time Warner Cable's VOD when I switched to TiVo from their crappy DVR. If I have to sit through commercials to watch VOD, then it is completely worthless to me.
Yes. If the VOD feed contains commercials and it can't be recorded by the TiVo to skip them later, that would be an absolute deal killer for me.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:09 PM   #19
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This announcement is like having a meeting to plan a meeting.
Only it wasn't an announcement it was an FCC filing.

CableCards are in every cable box Comcast ships which costs them money. And it's this reason why a de facto standard is needed and will be gladly acceptable by cable operators. Who better than the #1 cable provider and the #1 DVR vendor to work on a standard?

And as for the proprietary nonsense most standards are proprietary and then licensed. Look at DVD and BluRay standards. You need to pay a small licensing fee to implement.

"TiVo and Comcast, which disclosed the agreement in an FCC filing dated July 14"- See more at: http://www.multichannel.com/news/tv-....Mcfvprjd.dpuf
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:03 PM   #20
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VOD now = no skip or FF.
Wrong, false.

While this is USUALLY (virtually always) true for the "broadcast" networks, premium channels DO let you FF (and yes, it irks me that even HBO on Demand has a few minutes of crap before the movie that I have to FF through).. ALSO, basic cable channels usually let you FF through.

ALSO II, both network _and_ basic cable shows often end up with VERY low commercial (sometimes _none_) versions after several days to a week..

Is it AS good as recording on Tivo? No, but as someone who hates commercials, I still use On Demand more often than I thought I would... esp for the 'low/no/ffable' versions.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:09 PM   #21
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Some more details emerge

TiVo, once a burr in cable’s saddle when it came to next-gen video security, has been restored to an ally in the industry’s pursuit of a successor to the much-maligned CableCARD without further government intervention. -

See more at: http://www.multichannel.com/news/tec...d-world/382612

And the integrated security ban about to be eliminated by congress...

http://www.multichannel.com/news/pol...xt-week/382611

So now we need to wait for Comcast to create the new box which can be populated with TiVo software or Comcast X software... My guess is it will be available late next year.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:14 PM   #22
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TiVo, once a burr in cable’s saddle when it came to next-gen video security, has been restored to an ally in the industry’s pursuit of a successor to the much-maligned CableCARD without further government intervention. -

See more at: http://www.multichannel.com/news/tec...d-world/382612

And the integrated security ban about to be eliminated by congress...

http://www.multichannel.com/news/pol...xt-week/382611

So now we need to wait for Comcast to create the new box which can be populated with TiVo software or Comcast X software... My guess is it will be available late next year.
"TiVo Confirms That It Is Has Left The AllVid Tech Company Alliance...TiVo now agrees that commercial agreements, rather than more government intervention, will build bridge to the post-CableCARD world"

Well that's just great. So instead of one standard to unify cable, satellite, and IPTV, we will get a Comcast standard that might or might not be adopted by other cable providers but almost certainly wouldn't be adopted by satellite or IPTV. I want ONE STANDARD across ALL video providers, and you will never, ever get that through private "commercial agreements, rather than government intervention".

TiVo has clearly sold out. I wonder if Comcast has signaled to them that they might be willing to license the TiVo software for use on Comcast DVRs if they help them kill off AllVid.

Last edited by tarheelblue32 : 07-18-2014 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:26 PM   #23
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Only it wasn't an announcement it was an FCC filing.

CableCards are in every cable box Comcast ships which costs them money. And it's this reason why a de facto standard is needed and will be gladly acceptable by cable operators. Who better than the #1 cable provider and the #1 DVR vendor to work on a standard?

And as for the proprietary nonsense most standards are proprietary and then licensed. Look at DVD and BluRay standards. You need to pay a small licensing fee to implement.

"TiVo and Comcast, which disclosed the agreement in an FCC filing dated July 14"- See more at: http://www.multichannel.com/news/tv-....Mcfvprjd.dpuf
except it was an announcement that they are working on a standard. IT wasn't an announcement of a standard.

Just because it was in some FCC filing doesn't mean anything in and of itself.

It sounds like it is a response to this

"Last fall, Reps. Robert Latta (R-Ohio) and Gene Green (D-TX) introduced legislation that aims to “remove the unnecessary and costly” set-top security integration ban, putting forth an FCC estimate that the mandate has cost cable operators and consumers more than $1 billion. - See more at: http://www.multichannel.com/news/tv-apps/comcast-tivo-working-non-cablecard-approach/375989#sthash.ZJQg7dAx.dpuf"

They want to show the government they are working on stuff so the government stays out of their business.

The funny thing is they hold it up as example that the "market" is working, but the "market" would work a lot better if Comcast opened up the set top box market to retail competition.

Last edited by trip1eX : 07-18-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:55 AM   #24
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And they've withdrawn from AllVid ::

http://www.multichannel.com/news/tec...d-world/382612

I'm sure their cable partners helped influence this path. Like how Jason Nealis at RCN has been vocal about reducing CAPEX by killing off CableCards and the integration ban. I'm sure these partners were not thrilled about Tivo's previous arguments asking the FCC for another mandatory standard to protect their retail business.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:45 AM   #25
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Cable boxes along with cable cards have set TV backwards to the 1970's. I remember when TV's got built in tuners and we were able to get rid of those boxes we had in the 70's.

TV shouldn't need a box or a card. I should be able to call cable provider and read them a number off my TV. I want to see TV's get where it doesn't matter if you have cable or sat, you just call the provider and read them a number.
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:08 AM   #26
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Well isn't that just dandy. Instead of a single, industry-wide standard, we get a proprietary Comcast standard that "Comcast will make available to other cable operators 'on commercially reasonable terms.'" Whatever the hell that means. And of course other cable (and satellite) operators will be under no obligation to adopt the new "Comcast standard". Nor will they be deterred from coming up with their own, incompatible proprietary standards. Forgive me if I seem less than hopeful about this news.
Well given the complete abdication of the FCC's authority over this with AllVid, what choice did they have? It's not like there's anyone at the FCC that really gives a crap given their sad history of doing basically nothing to get Cablecard replaced (other than granting an absolutely ridiculous waiver to Charter to let them do whatever they want).

The even sadder part is that a new IP standard would probably still be cableCo specific, so the ultimate ideal of AllVid that a consumer could use a Tivo et al on ANY MSO will still be a fantasy.
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:09 AM   #27
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Cable boxes along with cable cards have set TV backwards to the 1970's. I remember when TV's got built in tuners and we were able to get rid of those boxes we had in the 70's.

TV shouldn't need a box or a card. I should be able to call cable provider and read them a number off my TV. I want to see TV's get where it doesn't matter if you have cable or sat, you just call the provider and read them a number.
Years ago I had a HDTV that took a Cable Card, and that all you had to do, and you did not need any internet connection, however we found it a pain to use as you had no ch information as to what was on etc. When the TiVo Series 3 (not the original Series 3) came out I purchased one and moved the cable card into that TiVo, a much better experience even if you were not going to record anything. The Comcast box would have done the same thing but at the time I did not want the clutter in the kitchen. The TiVo with the extra clutter and the DVR function was a good trade off for us.
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