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Old 06-15-2014, 10:05 PM   #271
timhbtr53
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Have a bad power supply?

I'm sorry but this prices for a S3 power supply is just crazy. If you do not feel like you can replace the caps please send me a PM. I am in Baton Rouge, La. For just the shipping of the power supply and the caps from mouser "For all the caps it's about 10.00 bucks plus some shipping to get them here" I will replace your caps test it and send it back to you. I am not looking to get rich just help others out that can't do it themselves. If you think it worth 10 bucks great if not just make sure you pay the shipping back to you. The only thing I ask is please check your hard drive first. If it's good look at the caps on your power supply if they look like some of them have domed tops you have bad caps. If you have never had them replaced your going to have this problem. It's nothing TiVo did it was a line of junk caps that where used in everything. I have a radio telephone license, plus I am a ham radio oper. I have 2 weller soldering stations plus 2 Aoyue stations and a X-Tronic Model #5040-XTS Hot Air Rework Soldering Iron Station. So if you have a dead or dying power supply PM me. Thanks Tim.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:22 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleech2 View Post
Since replacing the caps in my AcBel power supply a month ago, I've had two random occurrences of the video going blank when I press the Tivo button while watching live TV. The sound and functionality remain, but I can't get the video back unless I unplug the unit to force a restart.

While replacing the caps, a layer of the circuit board separated ever so slightly adjacent to one of the new caps. Could this be the cause?
Update: I opted not to mess with the power supply any further because I discovered that if I hit the "Live TV" button after the video goes out and then change the channel, the video returns without having to force a reset.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:26 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleech2 View Post
Update: I opted not to mess with the power supply any further because I discovered that if I hit the "Live TV" button after the video goes out and then change the channel, the video returns without having to force a reset.
Have you checked the voltages -- this behavior isn't normal (unless your system always acted this way even before the PS went bad).
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:48 PM   #274
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Don't give up

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleech2 View Post
Update: I opted not to mess with the power supply any further because I discovered that if I hit the "Live TV" button after the video goes out and then change the channel, the video returns without having to force a reset.
Did you do the cap job? If so did you replace all the caps or just the pop topped caps? It sounds like you have a cap that is on the edge and your voltage is noisy. What series is this TiVo? If you pull the power and your back up it does sound like you have some low voltage on you power supply. I am wiling to help you if over the phone that's fine. Let me know if you would like some help but don't give up just yet.
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:56 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timhbtr53 View Post
Did you do the cap job? If so did you replace all the caps or just the pop topped caps? It sounds like you have a cap that is on the edge and your voltage is noisy. What series is this TiVo? If you pull the power and your back up it does sound like you have some low voltage on you power supply. I am wiling to help you if over the phone that's fine. Let me know if you would like some help but don't give up just yet.
bleech2's tale of woe begins on post #255:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...0#post10107710
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:26 PM   #276
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Oh a trace that walked.

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Originally Posted by squint View Post
It looks like C501 is bulging. Other pictures in that auction also show it bulging.



True, but when was the last time you saw a re-capped power supply for sale other than on this forum?
I hate when that happens, As long as you take your time it's a very workable fix "Like you don't know that" lol. That is a strange problem it sounds like one of the caps is on the edge and making noise on one of the voltage lines. I hope he takes it out and looks it over one more time. I think he will find a cold solder joint or cancer on a cap. And yes there seems to be a lot of high price P/S on here. Have a great week buddy.
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:07 PM   #277
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True. A polarized electrolytic capacitor can explode if installed backwards.
There's no "can" to it. They pop like a firecracker. I put one in polarity wrong tonight, and didn't catch it until it was plugged in and popped. I knew instantly what I had done. Everything was fastened down tight, all the cords were run back, and it was completely reinstalled in the entertainment center, which is odd, I'm normally pretty fussy about testing anything that can be tested while still in a state of partial disassembly.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:51 PM   #278
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Bump.

I think I got a bulging capacitor on the power supply. How much bulging are we talking abou? The end is a bit convex while the others are concave...
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:05 PM   #279
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Bump.

I think I got a bulging capacitor on the power supply. How much bulging are we talking abou? The end is a bit convex while the others are concave...
If it is convex at all, it's suspect. They start failing before they even get to that point (takes time for the pressure to build). If the center is any higher than the shrink sleeve that folds over the top edges, I'd call it doming, or "bulging" as they say in these threads. Probably a unitronistic dialect that stuck...
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-15-2014 at 08:51 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:43 PM   #280
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Thanks!
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:58 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor View Post
Bump.

I think I got a bulging capacitor on the power supply. How much bulging are we talking abou? The end is a bit convex while the others are concave...
The recently deceased steve614 provided us with an excellent photographic example of how subtle the bulge can be



http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...33#post8824333


Anything other than an absolutely ruler flat top of the capacitor counts, and it's also possible for a cap to still be flat but going (or gone) bad.


Even if you don't currently have a power supply problem, as long as you've got the thing opened up, you might as well go ahead and replace all the usual suspects and save having to do it in a few months from now.
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:13 PM   #282
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I encountered my first non-capacitor-related power supply failure yesterday. An AcBel power supply from a 652 failed to spin up the HDD but would power the fan and some lights. Swapping out the power supply got it running again. I did a quick check of the power supply and saw no obvious failed capacitors but I did notice that the large heatsink along with the MOSFETs and Schottky rectifier bolted to it had a lot of play. Re-soldering the heatsink and the 3 components bolted to it got the power supply working again.

I also saw my first 648 power supply without a bulging C701.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:59 PM   #283
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I encountered my first non-capacitor-related power supply failure yesterday. An AcBel power supply from a 652 failed to spin up the HDD but would power the fan and some lights. Swapping out the power supply got it running again. I did a quick check of the power supply and saw no obvious failed capacitors but I did notice that the large heatsink along with the MOSFETs and Schottky rectifier bolted to it had a lot of play. Re-soldering the heatsink and the 3 components bolted to it got the power supply working again.

I also saw my first 648 power supply without a bulging C701.
I've seen the heatsink fault as well. Due to the heat-sinking qualities (and other qualities) of a heatsink, the often minimal amount of solder that is there can crack in shipping, during handling, and just fail from thermal cycling (from periods of not having constant heat, from constant operation).
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-16-2014 at 10:10 PM. Reason: added (and other qualities)
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:38 PM   #284
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The recently deceased steve614 provided us with an excellent photographic example of how subtle the bulge can be
Deceased???
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:48 AM   #285
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Deceased???
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=518924

Also see

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=505388
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:30 PM   #286
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3Y Caps Replaced, Still click click clicking

Hi All,

First off new member here, and since this is my first post I thought I'd thank everyone for over 10 pages of awesome information so far! Since I have a problem here I'm trying to fix, every little bit of information helps, so that actually read all 10 pages. Thanks again!

Unfortunately, my old tivo with the 3y power supply died. I opened it up and noticed a single bulging cap. Well since then I've replaced just about every cap on this thing via the mouser project, except for 1 or 2 of the really small ones on the board.

The caps I haven't replaced:

C220 C227 and C306.

all I hear is a constant clicking or ticking, and I even read one post where some one says that was normal without load, so I plugged the mboard and hdd into the PW supply after I replaced all the caps.

But still no dice, does anyone have a circuit diagram or any other thoughts as to what component it actually could be?
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:29 AM   #287
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I've worked on a good number of power supplies and haven't experienced that issue. I would just check over all the solder joints as it can be hard to melt the solder of the capacitor legs attached to large ground planes. Also double check polarity.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:10 AM   #288
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It is also possible to damage a power supply, by not attaching the load(s) it is designed to always be connected to, or by not simulating the minimum load required (for the instances you don't want to worry about damaging what would usually provide the load).

Clicking/cycling is usually a protection mechanism cycling on/off. It can happen when any over/under thresholds are out of range.

It could very well be the PS protecting itself due to something wrong with the capacitors not yet replaced. I found it odd that this member seems to think the "really small" caps are any less relevant than the larger ones. It's almost always the smallest ones (on a TiVo PS), which are the ones of most importance, when re-capping. If one has an internal short, or is otherwise causing a high-current condition, it could cause what is described (provided the description is accurate).
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:45 AM   #289
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It is also possible to damage a power supply, by not attaching the load(s) it is designed to always be connected to, or by not simulating the minimum load required (for the instances you don't want to worry about damaging what would usually provide the load).

Clicking/cycling is usually a protection mechanism cycling on/off. It can happen when any over/under thresholds are out of range.

It could very well be the PS protecting itself due to something wrong with the capacitors not yet replaced. I found it odd that this member seems to think the "really small" caps are any less relevant than the larger ones. It's almost always the smallest ones (on a TiVo PS), which are the ones of most importance, when re-capping. If one has an internal short, or is otherwise causing a high-current condition, it could cause what is described (provided the description is accurate).

The way I figure it, the caps that handle the most current and the high switching frequencies are the ones being stressed the most and the ones most likely to go bad because of that, although we now have one report of the 200V cap that comes right after the bridge being leaky on the bottom.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:54 AM   #290
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Hey thanks for the response there.

So after reading 10 pages of this thread, I came to the conclusion based on some member's opinions that the primary caps that go bad are the 2200uf ones, C501, C701, C702, etc. That's why I didn't bother replacing the 3 on the far side of the board.

In any event, this morning I refluxed the joints I had done for all the caps, and I replaced the the final 3 caps with equivalents.

Still no dice, I get a fast tick tick tick (same as before). This is why I asked for a circuit diagram so that I could figure out how or what to test. I've also taken a few high resolution pics. here : tiny url slash l224dt3

Showing Polarity on 2200uf


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Old 08-19-2014, 09:04 AM   #291
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I replaced 2 or 3 of the caps that were on the far side of the board, (again these were caps not in the mouser project) with the same capacitance but lower voltage rating temporarily to test. For example, the 47uf 50V cap I replaced with 47uf 35V.

I think that's OK as far as functionality, but could lead to shorter life span? Is that a valid assumption or will it not work properly even temporarily for testing purposes?



Last edited by Lcstyle : 08-19-2014 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:06 AM   #292
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as you can see from the different design on the heads of the caps, I've replaced all of them.



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Old 08-19-2014, 09:07 AM   #293
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I also checked the fuse on the far side of the board by removing the plastic coating, I doubt I would hear any ticking if it was bad, but just wanted to make sure it wasn't half blown.

It seems to be OK



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Old 08-19-2014, 09:25 AM   #294
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although we now have one report of the 200V cap that comes right after the bridge being leaky on the bottom.
I even replaced that one:


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Old 08-19-2014, 09:26 AM   #295
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One Question I had was whether in the following pic this was simply epoxy from the factory and or fabrication, or whether this thing overheated?


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Old 08-19-2014, 09:27 AM   #296
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The orientation of C227 is weird and looks like its polarity may be reversed.

My LT7202 looks the same as yours with the two "melted" looking spots.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:37 AM   #297
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The orientation of C227 is weird and looks like its polarity may be reversed.

My LT7202 looks the same as yours with the two "melted" looking spots.
OK thanks for letting me know about the LT7202.

As far as C227, I'll double check it, but I think it is OK. It's a little hard to see but its not the regular design cap with two legs coming out the bottom, I found a replacement where the legs each come out opposite side. If you notice the diagram indicating polarity underneath and the c227 label as well as the arrow pointing to the right on the cap itself I think it is OK.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:58 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Lcstyle View Post
One Question I had was whether in the following pic this was simply epoxy from the factory and or fabrication, or whether this thing overheated?

Those apear to be ferrite beads. They add inductance and suppress high frequency noise.

Nothing looks melted to me.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:05 AM   #299
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Clicking/cycling is usually a protection mechanism cycling on/off. It can happen when any over/under thresholds are out of range.
Couldn't this also be a cap rapidly charging discharging? If I didn't know any better I would say the ticking noise like I am hearing is mechanical in nature. However there doesn't seem to be any relays in this board. It almost sounds like one of the cap suddenly discharges, or arcing.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:10 AM   #300
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OK thanks for letting me know about the LT7202.

As far as C227, I'll double check it, but I think it is OK. It's a little hard to see but its not the regular design cap with two legs coming out the bottom, I found a replacement where the legs each come out opposite side. If you notice the diagram indicating polarity underneath and the c227 label as well as the arrow pointing to the right on the cap itself I think it is OK.

The caps on a TiVo power supply board, at least all the ones I've seen so far, the ones with both leads sticking out the bottom, are called "radial" as far as the packaging is concerned.

The cap that looks like a lead goes in one end and comes out the other is called an "axial" cap.

In the old vacuum tube point to point wiring days, axials were probably the more commonly used design.

Are all the replacement caps you installed Low ESR and 105 degree (C) rated?



And is this supply out of a 648 or a 652/658?
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