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Old 07-14-2014, 05:17 PM   #61
dcline414
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Originally Posted by trip1eX View Post
Take your pick. I bet most can't get all those with one antenna position.
Quite possibly true if located far enough out that an omnidirectional antenna can't get them all.

In Atlanta the NBC affiliate is VHF while all others are UHF. I discovered that a BIG (8' long, 6' wide, 4' tall) VHF/UHF antenna couldn't be positioned in such a way that it picked up everything... at least not on the Tivo (the built-in TV tuners work better). We ended up with a dedicated VHF antenna, the combination VHF/UHF antenna, a pretty expensive preamp that can combine the signals, and a distribution amp to run to the TVs directly as well as the Tivo.

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Where is the great need in the market for a 6 tuner OTA dvr with so few OTA channels? I'm not seeing it.
I don't think anyone would ever need 6 OTA tuners. However the BASE Roamio has the ability to be either a 4-tuner OTA or 4-tuner cable DVR, and thus is much more versatile, i.e. for lifetime service.

If all else were equal (streaming, HDD, inputs/outputs, etc) I would DEFINITELY be more likely to buy lifetime service on a device that I could use whether I had cable or not, even if that meant giving up two [cable] tuners.

But the responses in this thread have made it very apparent that most here view cable, OTA, and Tivo's value much differently than I do.

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Old 07-15-2014, 05:55 PM   #62
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I don't think anyone would ever need 6 OTA tuners. However the BASE Roamio has the ability to be either a 4-tuner OTA or 4-tuner cable DVR, and thus is much more versatile, i.e. for lifetime service.
There was a time 10 or 11 years ago wherein there were 5 shows on different broadcast networks at the same time that either I or my SO wanted to see. I had to use all 3 TiVos I owned at the time and 2 VCRs.

Add padding, local sub-channels, multiple users (with wildly differing tastes) and minis into the mix and you can easily get to a situation where 4 OTA tuners is not enough.

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Old 07-16-2014, 10:05 AM   #63
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There was a time 10 or 11 years ago wherein there were 5 shows on different broadcast networks at the same time that either I or my SO wanted to see. I had to use all 3 TiVos I owned at the time and 2 VCRs.

Add padding, local sub-channels, multiple users (with wildly differing tastes) and minis into the mix and you can easily get to a situation where 4 OTA tuners is not enough.
But if TiVo ever manages to finish implementing single-tuner overlap by moving the required copying to a background task where it won't cause glitches (or if the new Haxe-based code is somehow efficient enough to avoid the glitches), that great high-end feature will help a lot.

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Old 07-16-2014, 03:29 PM   #64
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But if TiVo ever manages to finish implementing single-tuner overlap by moving the required copying to a background task where it won't cause glitches (or if the new Haxe-based code is somehow efficient enough to avoid the glitches), that great high-end feature will help a lot.
IMNSHO, the scheduler problems in the single-tuner overlap code are a far more serious issue.

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Old 07-16-2014, 05:10 PM   #65
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You don't need to maintain copies of the same data that may be needed for two overlapped recordings of video from a single tuner -- you just need a mechanism like reference counting or hard linking blocks of data at some level sufficiently granular to provide ways two recordings can own the same blocks of data for the overlapped portion of the recording.

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Old 07-16-2014, 09:58 PM   #66
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You don't need to maintain copies of the same data that may be needed for two overlapped recordings of video from a single tuner -- you just need a mechanism like reference counting or hard linking blocks of data at some level sufficiently granular to provide ways two recordings can own the same blocks of data for the overlapped portion of the recording.
That certainly would be my preferred method for implementing this feature. Unfortunately, it probably requires changes to the FS and definitely more code changes than the way they did it.

Plus, as I indicated before, the scheduler problems were far more serious than the "glitch" and they would be there no matter what method was used for the actual recording.

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Old 07-16-2014, 10:54 PM   #67
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I've used all 4 tuners when scheduling things. Especially when there is a special event going on. Tivo can see how often we are hitting all four tuners with their data mining. They can use that to decide if they need to offer a 6 tuner model. With minis taking up tuners, i can see an advantage to 6 tuners for OTA. 6 tuners would be the main reason for them to do it because you can get all the other features by getting add-on accessories.

But mainly I want MoCa, streaming, and a normal sized box with fan airflow that actually makes sense. People don't have unlimited room to stick wierd size boxes in their cabinet. We need to be able to stack the PS3 on top of the Tivo for the love of all that is holy!

But I would bet they make a 6 tuner OTA. Maybe that is why they are running a promotion right now to clear out the 6 tuner cable-only models.

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Old 07-16-2014, 11:51 PM   #68
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IMNSHO, the scheduler problems in the single-tuner overlap code are a far more serious issue.
Yes. Even though I did not once suffer the scheduler problems, once I was fully informed about how bad it was for those who did suffer it, I quit ranting over the function's removal.

As with a great many things, I advocated for the ability to turn the function on and off. I can never quite figure out TiVo's thinking on things. Just when I think they are going to change things and force us to take everything they change, they surprise me with letting me turn off the extra column in the My Shows list, as opposed to it being "the new and only view".

We can toggle the free space indicator, but can't choose to have the "HD Recordings" folder as an option. As some have pointed out, having a "SD Recordings" folder would be of more use to them.

I can only hope that the debut of the extra column is "just the beginning", which leaves some hope of each user being able to have their TiVo "their way". Letting us add and name folders, and deciding what goes into them, would be a dream come true (especially if they quit wasting so much horizontal real-estate on the sides, resulting in less truncation).

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Old 07-17-2014, 10:34 AM   #69
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IMNSHO, the scheduler problems in the single-tuner overlap code are a far more serious issue.
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Yes. Even though I did not once suffer the scheduler problems, once I was fully informed about how bad it was for those who did suffer it, I quit ranting over the function's removal.

As with a great many things, I advocated for the ability to turn the function on and off.
I also did not see the scheduler problems, but I trust you guys are right about that being the more serious issue. I was just trying to do a little cheerleading to let TiVo know that there are still people out here who would very much like to have single-tuner overlap, a feature that every high-end DVR should have. And if they actually get it working properly, why would anyone want to turn it off? Choice is great, but I really don't see the need in this particular case.

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Old 07-17-2014, 06:25 PM   #70
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And if they actually get it working properly, why would anyone want to turn it off? Choice is great, but I really don't see the need in this particular case.
Would you rather wait however long it takes for TiVo to make it work perfectly (which might be never, without TiVo rewriting their code from the ground-up), or have the ability to enable/disable a function that works "good enough" (for those who don't mind a momentary video glitch), as-is, for those who don't use their TiVo in a way that the scheduler bug would occur?

I was OK with the "blink and you might miss it" glitch, and not affected by the scheduler issue. So, I'd turn it on, if it was an optional function.

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Old 09-13-2014, 11:28 AM   #71
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Well it seems this question has been answered, but in a different way than I was hoping for.

Still, a $50 Roamio OTA will work with a stream, so for the same price as a basic you can get 4-tuners and streaming if you don't need cable support.

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Old 09-13-2014, 09:13 PM   #72
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Why remove OTA capability from a higher end model anyway?
Because if you are rich enough to be able to afford the high end model, you can afford cable.

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Old 09-14-2014, 09:48 AM   #73
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Because if you are rich enough to be able to afford the high end model, you can afford cable.
There isn't a correlation between the financial ability to afford cable and the desire to have it.

I have Comcast running to my house right now for internet only, but am OTA for my televisions by choice. I realize that my situation my well be unique, but the return on outlay is what drove my decision.

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Old 09-14-2014, 10:37 AM   #74
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There isn't a correlation between the financial ability to afford cable and the desire to have it.

I have Comcast running to my house right now for internet only, but am OTA for my televisions by choice. I realize that my situation my well be unique, but the return on outlay is what drove my decision.
I got tired of paying the cable and dish companies over a thousand dollars a year to have channels that I never watched.

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Old 09-14-2014, 12:06 PM   #75
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I got tired of paying the cable and dish companies over a thousand dollars a year to have channels that I never watched.
You were paying thousands of dollars a year to have channels that you could watch anytime you wanted.

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Old 09-14-2014, 01:45 PM   #76
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You were paying thousands of dollars a year to have channels that you could watch anytime you wanted.
Yeah, Like paying that money to watch channels that were a little less interesting than watching paint dry.

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Old 09-14-2014, 01:55 PM   #77
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Yeah, Like paying that money to watch channels that were a little less interesting than watching paint dry.
You have to paint something before you can watch it dry. And you have to have paint.

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Old 07-08-2015, 01:16 PM   #78
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Not one, fully featured Roamio?

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Yes, you are crazy. The hardware lineup TiVo currently offers isn't going to change anytime soon. They aren't going to add streaming capabilities to the base Roamio, because that would increase the costs. And they aren't going to add OTA to the Plus/Pro because that would increase the costs. The solution, if you want OTA and streaming is to just buy the stream separately. If you want to wait until the next generation of TiVo hardware to see if they change things around, that will probably be AT LEAST 3 to 4 years away, if ever. I suggest you just buy a base Roamio and a stream.

I WOULD have agreed with you about there being NO CHANCE that Tivo will create a new model of the Roamio that actually has all the features that are offered throughout their Roamio lineup. Until, they released the Roamio OTA for $50 and then announced at CES a $5,000 (or something outrageous) MEGA TIVO (!!!!) that has it's own in orbit satellite (just kidding, but it's got A LOT of storage space and is REALLY expensive). Heck, I'd pay double that for an OTA to Cablecard adapter. That probably makes ZERO sense for those who are much more technically inclined than I am, an OTA to CableCard adapter, but it's almost MADDENING that they DID release a new model of the Roamio, the OTA, that is a great idea business wise but shows that they RECOGNIZE consumer desire for a cord cutting option but don't allow those loyal Tivo fans to do that with the higher end, lifetime service models. Heck, I'd just buy a Roamio OTA and use THAT as a means to interpret the OTA signal and feed it into a Plus/Pro model Roamio if that was possilble. Why would there be a "Plus" model and a "Pro" model, which have only HDD space increases? That's TERRIBLE marketing. The "Pro" model should have ALL options! As the OP said, why wouldn't Tivo want this money I'm waving in the air? I cannot really justify spending $450 on 3 Tivo Minis upfront if they become useless. How would they become useless? Well, if I decide that I don't want Comcast Digital Cable anymore, at any point (most likely when my 12-24 month term is up and the prices get jacked up to unreasonable levels in comparison to the value provided) the Plus/Pro model Roamio box becomes...worthless? I only have the option of Comcast if I want digital cablecards. So then I would DOWNGRADE to an OTA in order to keep the Tivo Minis working, and let the $600 (give or take) Plus/Pro with Lifetime service just collect dust? Also, go down from 6 to 4 tuners, lose the ability to use the remote finder, have to invest another $100 or so dollars on a Tivo Stream, and get a network adapter to use the MoCa setup (because the MoCa bridge is included in the Plus/Pro models but not in the OTA/Basic models)? These are the EXACT reasons why nobody wants to invest in the Tivo setup.

It makes logical sense. Why pay $20/mo to Comcast (at the LEAST) or DirecTV or U-Verse to "lease" their crappy equipment, which you have to RETURN after you cancel service when you can pay $12.50/mo for Tivo service and KEEP the boxes forever? Great point, Tivo! Why use a lesser "DVR" service that is running on ancient software/hardware that has little to no features and can't even properly fast forward without having to play guessing games as to when you press "PLAY" (actually, I have to hit pause, wait 2 seconds for the recording to catch up and settle on the screen, then hit "PLAY" and most of the time quickly hit 7-second skip a couple times, then sometimes 30 second rewind, in order to get to the next segment of a network television show and skip the commercials)? With Tivo, you have the GRANDDADDY OF THEM ALL! A system that is STILL the best available, with more thought and love put into the SOUNDS (ba-boop, bi-boop) of system actions than the service providers put into the entire "DVR" system they are offering? Why switch from Video 1 to Video 2, wait for your Roku to "wake up", then fire up Netflix, then search through Netflix, to find something to watch? With the Roamio, you can just - "Search" and the system will do all of that for you! It's a REAL living room, media assistant that will HELP you access your videos, music, etc.!

Awesome job, Tivo! Now stop creating ARTIFICIAL handicaps of your own doing and allow your loyalists the option to HAVE OPTIONS moving forward! Making a $500 PLUS investment (that's insanely conservative for those going with a Pro/Lifetime combo) that basically forces you into bending over and accepting whatever "DEAL" Comcast is willing to provide for you even though Comcast hates Tivo and is actively attempting to put them out of business and make life as hard as possible, in regards to television "hard" anyway, for many of Tivo's happy customers attempting to use Cable Cards.

Sorry about the length of my rant here but I'm ticked off! I am finally buying a home and somehow, miraculously was given "permission" from my better half to go ahead and purchase the Tivo equipment because I was adamant about the superiority of the service itself but ALSO the financial savings of the service. BOO TIVO! BOO! Stop being weird and give the owners of the Plus and Pro model Roamios the ability to cut the cord! You will actually help to take some customers away from Comcast COMPLETELY and regain a foothold in the market! That's the ONLY thing holding me back and by an extension, my parents and my in-laws. Oh, and another household in my family. I would have ALL of them sign up immediately upon the cancellation of their current contracts.

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Old 07-08-2015, 03:04 PM   #79
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So then I would DOWNGRADE to an OTA in order to keep the Tivo Minis working, and let the $600 (give or take) Plus/Pro with Lifetime service just collect dust?
Sell it on ebay and use the money to buy a Roamio OTA.

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Also, go down from 6 to 4 tuners
If you want more tuners, buy 2 OTAs and then you'll have 8 tuners.

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have to invest another $100 or so dollars on a Tivo Stream, and get a network adapter to use the MoCa setup (because the MoCa bridge is included in the Plus/Pro models but not in the OTA/Basic models)?
Why do you think the OTA model is hundreds of dollars cheaper than the Plus/Pro? Because it doesn't have as much expensive hardware inside the box. And anyone who wants the Stream functonality or MoCA can just buy them as ad-ons.

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Old 07-08-2015, 03:36 PM   #80
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Sell it on ebay and use the money to buy a Roamio OTA.



If you want more tuners, buy 2 OTAs and then you'll have 8 tuners.



Why do you think the OTA model is hundreds of dollars cheaper than the Plus/Pro? Because it doesn't have as much expensive hardware inside the box. And anyone who wants the Stream functonality or MoCA can just buy them as ad-ons.
All good points. I would add that I am glad the Pro and Plus don't have OTA. Why would I have wanted to pay more for something I have absolutely no need for? Just because someone wants the flexibility to change their mind about having cable in the future? Like you said, he should just buy a couple of base units if he wants flexibility and not force the rest of us to pay more for his convenience.

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Old 07-09-2015, 02:01 PM   #81
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No way for the pro/plus to have OTA since the chips don't exist for it. To have OTA and cable together you are limited to two tuners each or four total.. With cable or ota only it is still limited to four with those same chips.

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Old 07-10-2015, 01:47 AM   #82
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All good points. I would add that I am glad the Pro and Plus don't have OTA. Why would I have wanted to pay more for something I have absolutely no need for? Just because someone wants the flexibility to change their mind about having cable in the future? Like you said, he should just buy a couple of base units if he wants flexibility and not force the rest of us to pay more for his convenience.
Agreed, I have a Tivo HD and a 2 tuner premiere and don't have cable, if you bought a unit with 6 cable tuners why would you want to be saddled with OTA you most likely will never use. That being said, it would be nice if Tivo could put the base romaio in the same type of case as the pro and plus.

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