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Old 07-10-2014, 08:41 PM   #31
trip1eX
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um...just get the streaming adapter for the Roamio Basic and you're good to go.

Tivo is never going to be Burger King.

Mass market-wise I don't think anyone needs 6 tuners on OTA. Most can't get that many OTA channels.

Also maybe the fact you can get alot of OTA shows via streaming without getting a Tivo is also a factor in not releasing a real OTA Roamio Tivo instead of a re-brand of the Premiere.

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Old 07-10-2014, 10:28 PM   #32
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I am seriously considering signing up for cable again, but if I do I see no reason to keep the Tivo over the fancier DVRs they're including for free now.
Well, technically, even if you're getting the DVR in the cost of your package, you actually are PAYING, since you should be getting a _discount_ for customer owned equipment, e.g. with a Tivo.

Also.. (1) better UI, (2) ability to download non copy protected shows to a computer, (3) ability to stream/download shows to an iPhone/iPad... none of which you get on a cable DVR.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:22 PM   #33
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It almost seems like Tivo is in bed with the cable companies, limiting larger drives, streaming, etc to cable subscribers.
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Also what's the "limiting larger drives" comment? you can drop a 3TB drive in any Roamio, what CableCO DVR lets you do that?
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Okay, charging you for the included 500GB drive that you have to pay an additional $100 to replace.
But that's the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming, Tivo doesn't "limit" you, they just don't make a unit with the options you want, that's abundantly clear, but allowing you to replace the reasonable for some folks 500GB drive with a 1, 2, or 3TB drive, whichever should you chose, that's never a minus, that's a total plus for Tivo (yes, I'm harping on this)

Tivo doesn't make the model you want and it's not on their roadmap for all the reasons folks have pointed out, IMO you'll never be happy with Tivo so I say find a provider that better meets your needs.

Any time there's an attempt to cost justify Tivo it's just silly, Tivo is never the most cost effective solution, but it's frequently the best option for folks who are appreciative of the Tivo package/experience.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:59 AM   #34
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I wish there was a Roamio Basic that was in a normal sized metal box not some crazy shaped piece of plastic. Not that there's a "normal size" for such things these days, of course.

A shame we never really got some sort of modular standard for such equipment -- like rack mounting but with a horizontal component width multiple, too, not just the vertical units.
Seems like the aftermarket could come up with a metal case to solve that for the base roamio, I'm not wild about that plastic case either.
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:36 AM   #35
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Any time there's an attempt to cost justify Tivo it's just silly, Tivo is never the most cost effective solution, but it's frequently the best option for folks who are appreciative of the Tivo package/experience.
I guess I didn't see Tivo that way at all. I have always loved the cable/satellite hardware, and never understood why anyone would pay more for a Tivo. But when we cut the cord, I realized I would need to find my own hardware, which is how I first experienced Tivo.

I still don't have a foggy clue why anyone would pay out of pocket for equipment rather than take what their provider offers. If anything happens to their equipment then they replace it, and you can swap out for new equipment when anything better comes along.

I see absolutely no value proposition in what everyone seems to consider Tivo's primary market, so perhaps I am just confused about their model and the market as a whole.

Turns out that there are dozens of internet-connected ATSC tuners coming out that allow any drive to be connected for storage and can stream content remotely—all for much less than a Tivo costs, and at a lower monthly cost.

I guess I'll just head back over to the Premiere forum for the next month and then part ways with Tivo when my contract ends.
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:48 AM   #36
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I still don't have a foggy clue why anyone would pay out of pocket for equipment rather than take what their provider offers. If anything happens to their equipment then they replace it, and you can swap out for new equipment when anything better comes along.

I see absolutely no value proposition in what everyone seems to consider Tivo's primary market, so perhaps I am just confused about their model and the market as a whole.
?? It's simple math. Rent dvr from your provider for $20/month in perpetuity or pay one up front cost for a Tivo.

Leasing vs owning. Owning always comes out ahead over the long run.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:10 AM   #37
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?? It's simple math. Rent dvr from your provider for $20/month in perpetuity or pay one up front cost for a Tivo.

Leasing vs owning. Owning always comes out ahead over the long run.
Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.

Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:12 AM   #38
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Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.

Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.
Maybe Comcast and Charter just have really awesome equipment, but Time Warner Cable's cable boxes and DVRs were pieces of crapola. I replaced TWC's equipment about 8 months ago with a Roamio Plus w/lifetime and 2 Minis w/lifetime for around $1200 and it saves me $50/month in equipment rental fees. So they will pay for themselves over the course of 24 months. And at the end of those 24 months the odds are I will still have a Plus and 2 Minis still in good working order and with a significant resale value, rather than looking at paying $50/month in perpetuity to a company I despise (TWC) to rent their crappy DVR and cable boxes that I absolutely hated.

I'm not trying to say that your position is wrong, but I guess it's all just a matter of perspective.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:41 AM   #39
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Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.

Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.
In post #35 you said ""I guess I'll just head back over to the Premiere forum for the next month and then part ways with Tivo when my contract ends." yet here you are again.

Change your mind?
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:00 AM   #40
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Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.
I wouldn't say I love Comcast, but the offerings and reliability of the system I'm on is pretty good. We're on a former Adelphia system and its reliability is excellent.

But there's no way Comcast makes sure you have the best equipment. I began looking for alternative hardware because I was sick and tired of a two tuner DVR with limited storage. I first looked at Comcast's X1 DVR, but a few weeks of reading horror stories on the Xfinity user forums scared the hell out of me. Then I stumbled on to TiVo and don't regret my decision to switch one bit.

Well, one regret might be I didn't make the switch to TiVo sooner, but our timing was actually pretty good -- making the move last fall just a few months after the new Roamio line had been introduced.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:05 AM   #41
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But that's the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming, Tivo doesn't "limit" you, they just don't make a unit with the options you want, that's abundantly clear, but allowing you to replace the reasonable for some folks 500GB drive with a 1, 2, or 3TB drive, whichever should you chose, that's never a minus, that's a total plus for Tivo (yes, I'm harping on this)

Tivo doesn't make the model you want and it's not on their roadmap for all the reasons folks have pointed out, IMO you'll never be happy with Tivo so I say find a provider that better meets your needs.

Any time there's an attempt to cost justify Tivo it's just silly, Tivo is never the most cost effective solution, but it's frequently the best option for folks who are appreciative of the Tivo package/experience.
But TiVo has been the most cost effective solution when I compare prices to Comcast and FiOS in my area. If I had used Comcast or FIOS DVRs over the last seven years, my costs would have been much higher, than what it cost me with my TiVos during that time. And I still get the benefits of the TiVo. Like being able to offload the shows to a PC on my network.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:14 AM   #42
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I guess I didn't see Tivo that way at all. I have always loved the cable/satellite hardware, and never understood why anyone would pay more for a Tivo. But when we cut the cord, I realized I would need to find my own hardware, which is how I first experienced Tivo.

I still don't have a foggy clue why anyone would pay out of pocket for equipment rather than take what their provider offers. If anything happens to their equipment then they replace it, and you can swap out for new equipment when anything better comes along.

I see absolutely no value proposition in what everyone seems to consider Tivo's primary market, so perhaps I am just confused about their model and the market as a whole.

Turns out that there are dozens of internet-connected ATSC tuners coming out that allow any drive to be connected for storage and can stream content remotely—all for much less than a Tivo costs, and at a lower monthly cost.

I guess I'll just head back over to the Premiere forum for the next month and then part ways with Tivo when my contract ends.
I'm guessing that you are someone who purchases insurance on your hardware (best buy/frys/ect)? Or, perhaps the perfect owner for a car salesman to switch from sticker price to monthly cost? Or, maybe you are in the leasing game?

Tivos are relatively simple to fix, especially the roamio. You are free to spend your money how you wish, but you are spending more than you need to.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:20 AM   #43
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I just received my Tivo Romio...and really, as an OTA DVR...I couldn't be happier!

Let me explain why. We cut the cord back in 2008. Tivo was a large part why this was possible because they offered a dual tuner, HD, guided DVR for OTA. I saved a ton of money over the years. Even after my initial harddrive failed and had to replace it...I was still easily money ahead.

Then we moved about 65 miles from our Chicago towers. My Pioneer Kuro tuners received most of the channels without breaking up. Some channels, like 2 and 11 were problems. 11 would come in and out...2 was totally absent. Then hooking up my Tivo HD, we received NO channels at all!

Then my dad brought over his Romio, it received every major network and channel 2 with the existing antenna. I received my Tivo Romio the other day and also receive all the major networks quite solid. 2 will break up at times...but actually not that often. None of the channels have a ton of signal strength, but they're all fairly solid in viewing.

I've got my Chromecast for streaming Netflix, etc. The picture quality, of Netflix, on the Chromecast is better than on either the Tivo HD or Romio...although the Romio streams Netflix much better than the HD. But looking at the core of what an OTA DVR should do...OTA is, and should be, at the forefront. Really, anything else is just lipstick on a pig...cause if you have crap OTA tuners...you're box is useless for it's main purpose.

Tivo Romio...so far...couldn't be happier

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Old 07-11-2014, 10:14 AM   #44
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So this guy thinks the cable folks will keep him in the latest equipment, huh? I just helped a renter pick up the Comcast DVR to add to the renters system. This is right now, July, 2014. The Motorola box says it can store UP TO 7 hours of HD programming!! I thought it must be a mis-print. The first 1999 Tivos were even 16 hours of the TV we had then........so don't anyone think cable co stuff is up to date, and this is no little company either, it's Xfinity Nashville.
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Old 07-11-2014, 11:22 AM   #45
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Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.

Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.
lol. You can't get around the simple math with hyperbole. The cost of the lease is always based on making a profit off the cost of ownership.

Your cable DVR isn't free. You're paying $20/month for it.

Your cable company isn't switching you into a new DVR every year. DVRs don't evolve that fast for one thing. And your cable company is going to resist equipment changes for another.

Your DVR doesn't get sluggish over time. Nothing changes.

It also doesn't become less reliable either. (yes we can split hairs here.)

It isn't about liking or not liking the cable company in terms of whether it pays to own your own dvr. The math is the same.

Last edited by trip1eX : 07-11-2014 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:17 PM   #46
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Yeah, where does he get free DVR from? Some really high packages might include a DVR, but you sure are paying for it. Believe it or not Comcast charges 17 a month for the 7 hour HD DVR wonder I mentioned above, with it 5 a month for first year. Makes Tivo look so much better, like wow....
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Old 07-13-2014, 03:04 PM   #47
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...
Your cable company isn't switching you into a new DVR every year. DVRs don't evolve that fast for one thing. And your cable company is going to resist equipment changes for another.
...
Even if it does, at that point you lose the recordings you have not watched yet. This would likely be a noticeable concern for people having 3TB hard drives; of course, if your DVR stores all of 7 hrs ...
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:13 PM   #48
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Do you want to buy a used Tivo Stream? I no longer need mine since I have a Roamio Plus.


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Old 07-13-2014, 11:27 PM   #49
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It would be pretty awesome if the Roamios could support network ATSC tuners like the Silicon Dust HDHomerun.
Not really. I have a WMC HTPC with 2 SiliconDust boxes (4 tuners total), and in my locale the reception on some channels is marginal (multipath). Switching to the Roamio basic cured that completely. Tivo's tuners are far superior to SiliconDust for sensitivity and multipath problems.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:14 AM   #50
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Not really. I have a WMC HTPC with 2 SiliconDust boxes (4 tuners total), and in my locale the reception on some channels is marginal (multipath). Switching to the Roamio basic cured that completely. Tivo's tuners are far superior to SiliconDust for sensitivity and multipath problems.
Yeah but it would be nice to have for the plus and pro models since they lack ATSC tuners all together.

Are you talking about the newer Plus version of the SD HDHomerun or the old one?
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:58 AM   #51
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I switched recently to Tivo to actually save money. If I wanted to switch from the ancient Motorola STBs to the newer Cisco ones it would've meant $60 a month. The old Motorola boxes were $45 a month. My cable card costs me $6 to rent. Not including resale value of my Roamio Pro and 2 minis all with lifetime, I will break even in less than two years.

The family acceptance factor with Tivo is sky high. They prefer it many times over to the Fios UI. What's really amazing is the picture quality with the Roamio. I didn't realize how old and decrepit the Motorola boxes had become.

Unless I didn't have any other choice I would never go back to satellite. Too many weather outages, picture quality not as good as cable, and the CS. I might be able to live with OTA and streaming but there are no good (and legal) options for sports. Too many serious sports fans in the house not to have cable.

Goos luck with whatever you decide but in my experience the Roamio is far ahead of what any cable company or satellite provider can provide.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:14 AM   #52
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Mass market-wise I don't think anyone needs 6 tuners on OTA. Most can't get that many OTA channels.
Which of these 6 are "most" people missing?:

ABC
CBS
CW
FOX
NBC
PBS
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:32 AM   #53
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In order to enable even a base Roamio to handle OTA and cable simultaneously, it would need an additional input.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:24 PM   #54
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In order to enable even a base Roamio to handle OTA and cable simultaneously, it would need an additional input.
It has USB ports. That's how DirecTV adds OTA to their satellite-only DVRS. The ATSC tuner box (the AM21, which has 2 ATSC tuners) plugs into one of the USB ports, and has its own coaxial port and power supply.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:32 PM   #55
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Which of these 6 are "most" people missing?:

ABC
CBS
CW
FOX
NBC
PBS
Viewing habits differ. I can receive all of those plus an extra PBS system, but I don't usually record or even watch anything from some of them. Most of my recording is done from PBS, NBC and CBS, so if single-tuner overlap still worked my 4-tuner Roamio wouldn't even have to retune most of the time. Of course most people watch a lot more commercial entertainment than I do.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:33 PM   #56
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Viewing habits differ. I can receive all of those plus an extra PBS system, but I don't usually record or even watch anything from some of them. Most of my recording is done from PBS, NBC and CBS, so if single-tuner overlap still worked my 4-tuner Roamio wouldn't even have to retune most of the time. Of course most people watch a lot more commercial entertainment than I do.
The other issue is that a lot of folks are talking about a family solution, and not just a single person solution. You get 4 folks with their own idea of shows to watch, and you get both conflicts in recordings and conflicts for watching live-tv.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:43 PM   #57
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Viewing habits differ. I can receive all of those plus an extra PBS system, but I don't usually record or even watch anything from some of them. Most of my recording is done from PBS, NBC and CBS, so if single-tuner overlap still worked my 4-tuner Roamio wouldn't even have to retune most of the time. Of course most people watch a lot more commercial entertainment than I do.
I was addressing the claim that "most people" can't even receive that many channels.

I assume we are limiting this to the U.S. since doing otherwise in this context would be ridiculous. 83% of the U.S. population live in urban areas so, unless there are actual data to support it, I would say that the claim is absurd.

Plus it doesn't take 4 simultaneous shows to use up 4-tuners if you have your recordings padded.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:12 PM   #58
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It has USB ports. That's how DirecTV adds OTA to their satellite-only DVRS. The ATSC tuner box (the AM21, which has 2 ATSC tuners) plugs into one of the USB ports, and has its own coaxial port and power supply.
The possibility of an add-on tuner is a different issue and is already being discussed in another thread.

The point I was trying to make is that it requires more than just adding an internal OTA tuner to the Plus & Pro and that the lack of a second input on the base model is one reason why the Roamio doesn't support simultaneous OTA and cable.
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:43 PM   #59
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Which of these 6 are "most" people missing?:

ABC
CBS
CW
FOX
NBC
PBS

TAke your pick. I bet most can't get all those with one antenna position.

Anyway you are missing the point. Where is the great need in the market for a 6 tuner OTA dvr with so few OTA channels? I'm not seeing it.

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Old 07-14-2014, 05:07 PM   #60
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I can only get PBS, but I am rural. I can't even get the CW as part of a cable package still.
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