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Old 07-07-2014, 09:23 PM   #1
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Cool SOLVED: Dead or Dying hard drive TCD658000

Hey guys,

I've got a Tivo HDXL with I think a 1TB hard drive that is dying or dead. I've read lots of posts and I'm still a little unclear on what I can do to remedy the situation. I've run through the service mode HD scans and at this point it's just not booting up. Even if it does eventually boot (I did this a few weeks back and it fixed itself) I'm worried the the HD is on a slow death march to the grave.

With that said I understand my options are to:
1) buy a new TIvo
2) buy a ready to use Tivo replacement drive
3) use my own HD and format it correctly and do the work myself.

I'm quite handy with PCs and have lots of extra drives around, so I'd like to take option 3. I have linux and Windows and mac systems at my disposal and can do lots of low level work, but I'm not sure of the specific instructions.

All of the intructions i've read say I need to buy some software to format the drive or buy the drive. Is there freeware out there that I can use to format this correctly?

more questions:

1) does my HD need to be working to create a replacement?
2) In either case will i lose all of my data?
3) can I backup data and recover it, if I get the drive to spin up?
4) what format is the partition scheme in?
5) what have I forgotten?

Thanks for the help and advice.

Last edited by no comment : 07-28-2014 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Solved
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:25 PM   #2
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1) No, not unless you want to. These units are generally easy to fix.
2) Waste of money for anyone who has ever a part inside a PC.
3) Yes, grab another drive, download an image and use WinMFS to write it. Install it and if it boots, do a Clear and Delete Everything. If it functions normally then it was either a failing drive or software corruption. If it still has trouble booting or is unstable, investigate the power supply.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timhbtr53 View Post
I would try to find a WD AV-GP drive. There drives seem to last longer than all others out there. Very cool running drive but I think WD has a new model that is DVR certified.
You might want to stick to power supplies.

The WD AV-GP is the gold-standard for best results in a TiVo, even though TiVo makes no use of the special AV Streaming Feature/ ATA streaming command set extensions.

You want it for:
1. 5400 RPM green low-power profile.
2. Intended for 24/7 operation.
3. Same drive TiVo uses, even right now.
4. 3 year warranty.

The WD Purple PURX drives are not truly meant for TV DVR use in a single drive configurations, like TiVo. A couple people are trying these out. I'd wait awhile before considering these. NewEgg has them marked as a "newer model" than AV-GP, but that doesn't mean the AV-GP is going away any time soon, nor that the PURX is the right drive for the job.

WD Red NAS drives are also acceptable, and are every bit as good as the AV-GP drives. They just have more features that will never be used, but they are of the best quality in consumer drives.

I'll save lessd the trouble and say what he'll say: "Any low-power profile 5400 RPM drive will work". While that may be true, I'd spend $5-$10 more just for a 3 year warranty on the other drives mentioned. I'd expect them to last longer as well.
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no comment View Post
Hey guys,

I've got a Tivo HDXL with I think a 1TB hard drive that is dying or dead. I've read lots of posts and I'm still a little unclear on what I can do to remedy the situation. I've run through the service mode HD scans and at this point it's just not booting up. Even if it does eventually boot (I did this a few weeks back and it fixed itself) I'm worried the the HD is on a slow death march to the grave.

With that said I understand my options are to:
1) buy a new TIvo
2) buy a ready to use Tivo replacement drive
3) use my own HD and format it correctly and do the work myself.

I'm quite handy with PCs and have lots of extra drives around, so I'd like to take option 3. I have linux and Windows and mac systems at my disposal and can do lots of low level work, but I'm not sure of the specific instructions.

All of the intructions i've read say I need to buy some software to format the drive or buy the drive. Is there freeware out there that I can use to format this correctly?

more questions:

1) does my HD need to be working to create a replacement?
2) In either case will i lose all of my data?
3) can I backup data and recover it, if I get the drive to spin up?
4) what format is the partition scheme in?
5) what have I forgotten?

Thanks for the help and advice.

The model you have, also known as the TCD658000, came from the factory with a 1TB drive.

You should replace it with a 2TB Western Digital WD20EURS or WD20EURX.

Assuming that the problem is the drive.

There was the original Series3, the TCD648250, which it the one with the clock display OLED, and then there were two other Series 3 platform models, the TCD652160 and the one you have, and those two are almost identical except for hard drive size and THX certification.

All three of those S3s and the S2s as well were produced when faulty electrolytic capacitors by the millions had been introduced into the supply chain and used in all sorts of consumer electronics.

Check Wikipedia's "Capacitor Plague" article for more info on that.

What that means for S2 and S3 owners is that there is a very good chance that one or more capacitors on the power supply are going or have gone bad.

A flaky power supply can cause all sorts of strange symptoms.

Fortunately a high wattage soldering iron and about $10 worth of low ESR high temp replacement caps almost always return the power supply to like new performance, and if you have to open up a TiVo to mess with the hard drive you might as well replace all the usual suspects on the power supply board at the same time to save having to do it 6 months from now, assuming they haven't gone bad on you yet.

And you do need to open up the TiVo and hook the hard drive to a PC and boot with a cd that has the drive manufacturer's own diagnostic software on it and run the long test on the drive.

And if that PC has a GigaByte brand motherboard, say so before you boot with that drive attached so we can warn you about how to keep it from doing something to the drive that you don't want done.

Are you familiar with the Linux utilities

dd

ddrescue

and/or

dd_rescue

?
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:18 PM   #5
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Great Responses!

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post

Are you familiar with the Linux utilities

dd

ddrescue

and/or

dd_rescue

?
Great posts and thanks everyone. I have the system turned off for now and will start with a new HD replacement. I have one on the way from Newegg $89 was in my wheel house for the AV drive, so there you have it. I'll be traveling for a few days and when I get back this weekend I'll try to put it all together.

I've already replaced the fan, by the way, that was one of the first things to go. It was a simple fix and working fine now.

I do know all of the dd tools, though I haven't used them in a while, I'll just pick up a man page and look it over.

I don't have a gigabyte MB, but I'm interested to know what they do to drives. I've not heard of a MB actually writing to a drive without a user telling it to.

thanks and I'll let you know how things work out.

By the way, on the capacitor side, I don't have a high power Solder, but will likely get one. I'm not in the mood to fix capacitors just yet...I'll give it a few months, but your advice is sound.

thanks
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no comment View Post
Great posts and thanks everyone. I have the system turned off for now and will start with a new HD replacement. I have one on the way from Newegg $89 was in my wheel house for the AV drive, so there you have it. I'll be traveling for a few days and when I get back this weekend I'll try to put it all together.

I've already replaced the fan, by the way, that was one of the first things to go. It was a simple fix and working fine now.

I do know all of the dd tools, though I haven't used them in a while, I'll just pick up a man page and look it over.

I don't have a gigabyte MB, but I'm interested to know what they do to drives. I've not heard of a MB actually writing to a drive without a user telling it to.

thanks and I'll let you know how things work out.

By the way, on the capacitor side, I don't have a high power Solder, but will likely get one. I'm not in the mood to fix capacitors just yet...I'll give it a few months, but your advice is sound.

thanks

GigaByte boards in recent years have a nasty habit of creating a "Host Protected Area" on which ever drive they consider the "first" one whenever they boot up, if they haven't already put one on it.

And I'm pretty sure they don't check to see if they're wrecking a previously formatted area or not before they do it--if they do, I suspect they only check for DOS style partitions, and haven't been programmed to look for or understand Apple Partition Maps, such as are found on TiVo drives.

If your current 1TB drive is dying, but not yet dead, you might be able to use one of the "dd" style utilities to do a byte for byte copy onto a new drive of 1TB or larger, which would save your shows and settings.

dd_rescue

and

ddrescue

can be set to make more than one try at copying places that are starting to go bad, which means they can save stuff that would otherwise be lost.


But if you don't really care about saving your recordings, much simpler to use

WinMFS

to restore a 658 image to the new drive, and then after checking to make sure it worked, use WinMFS to expand into the extra 1TB.
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:32 PM   #7
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hey Guys,

Well the first attempt wasn't a success. I used WinMFS to copy the data from one drive to the other. I'm copying from a 1TB to a 2TB drive. In the end, the SW asked if I wanted to expand to use all of the capacity and I said yes to that.

I took the new drive and put it into the system and booted up. It starts up fine but then locks up on "system powering up" the fan is spinning really fast at this point and it just sits there.

I tried to kickstart with a 57 Code, got the green screen and let it run through, but then when I came back it was hung up.

It would be nice if Tivo had a boot menu to see what is going on.

Any suggestions?
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:37 PM   #8
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You're supposed to say no to that query then expand later using mfsadd. You should be able to make another copy and answer 'no' next time around.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:32 PM   #9
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that's a funny way for it to work, but I will try it again.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
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that's a funny way for it to work, but I will try it again.
Do the copy again, tell it not to expand, go back to

File,
Select

and this time select the target drive (the 2TB), then

File,
mfsinfo

and see if everything looks okay.

The partition map should show a big Apple Free partition at the bottom.

Test it in the TiVo.

If it works, bring it back to the PC and do the expansion with

File,

mfsadd


I do not know why including the expansion as part of the restore or copy process fails sometimes with both WinMFS and the MFS Live cd, but it does, and doing it separately seems to avoid the problem.

spike never charged me a dime to use either version, so I cut him a lot more slack than, say, Microsoft.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:34 PM   #11
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Sad day

So I've now done what I think is the correct process to clone my old drive and the system is still not able to boot. Here's what I did.

I took my old drive and the new drive and put them into the same system. I used WINMFS to copy the data from the old drive to the new one. It took like 5 hrs. THe old drive is 1TB and the new one is 2TB. I DID NOT say yes to the drive expansion. I just closed it after the copy. I then took the new drive and inserted it into the Tivo and tried to boot.

What happens is that it sits on the wait a minute screen for a very long time and eventually just hangs. When I came back to the system the colors on the TiVo boot screen had changed to a purple violet color from the orange yellow, but the system isn't doing anything.

I also tried to kickstart with option 57 to do a drive check with the same result. Is my system dead?

I'd be happy to just get it running again even if I lose all of my data and settings. At this point I'm faced with getting a replacement anyway.

thanks for your help.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:59 PM   #12
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There could be software corruption and cloning your original drive merely copied it to the new drive. My recommendation would be to download a 'virgin' image and use WinMFS to write it to the new drive. You'll have to do a clear and delete everything to marry the drive to the TiVo and get rid of the error message.

You can get an image for the HD XL by searching this forum. There's a lengthy thread dedicated to drive images.

If that doesn't boot then look into the power supply.
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:22 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by no comment View Post
I took the new drive and put it into the system and booted up. It starts up fine but then locks up on "system powering up" the fan is spinning really fast at this point and it just sits there.

Any suggestions?
Just a thought on your #8 post..

Your hang up at "powering up" is a problem I had when I needed to disable Intellipark on a WD hard drive. I'm not sure which hard drive you have, but you may need to run wdidle3 to disable it.

You said you brought a AV drive so you shouldn't have to worry about that because they now come with Intellipark disable. But if you have an older AV drive or a non WD AV drive you may need to disable it. Check the hard drive manufacturing date and make sure its not more than a couple of years old.
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Old 07-27-2014, 03:06 PM   #14
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Thanks again for all the help and support. I just ran the WDUTIL to disable the idle timer. I'm not sure if that was the issue, but I'm trying it anyway. In the meantime, I'm going to start working on finding the virgin image just in case.
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Old 07-27-2014, 03:23 PM   #15
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Look in this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...41#post9769741
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:28 AM   #16
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Well I got pretty far and have learned a lot about how the Tivo works...or doesn't work. I have to say that I really, really hate the way the software operated for troubleshooting and repair...but I guess in a walled garden you don't really want to have people messing with the plants.

Anyway, so here's where I am. I got an Image off the forums for my tCD658000. It only took a couple minutes to write the image and worked fine. I wrote the image to my 2TB drive and then after that completed I selected addMFS to add the additional 1TB partition. That worked fine. upon insertion the system booted fine and was perfectly usable. It booted into user mode so there was no guided setup. I knew I would have to clear things out, so I did a clear and delete everything. That process took a number of minutes and eventually hung up with a purple screen of death.

So I started over and reimaged the drive, but this time I setup the cable card and did a guided setup...which incidentally I learned you need to let run for many hours to complete the "preparing" section on the last step. That went fine, but I had an error 51 which made sense because I still had an old Tivo number in my settings....so I did another Clear delete and it hung up again.

So now I'm stuck. I have an image that works, but I can't clear and delete everything to reinstall it for my account.

By the way, if anyone is interested I tracked the boot time for my TiVO TCD658000 HD XL.

It goes like this.
[Plug in]
[Powering up]
1:07 to LED Flash -- this is to the point where you put in the kickstart code.
1:35 screen goes black
[Please wait this could take...
1:44 Fan goes to slower speed
6:00 Screen goes black, then comes back on a few times
6:20 completed boot

thanks for the help!
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:12 PM   #17
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Are you using HDMI? Is the purple screen just a purple version of the welcome graphic? If so, the purple is normal. What's not normal is being able to complete Clear and Delete Everything.

When this has happened to me, it was because the power supply was failing and something about Clear and Delete requires a healthy power supply. I don't know if you've looked for failing capacitors but that's the next step.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:30 PM   #18
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Smile Final post!

This will be my final post (I hope) and should close out the thread.

First I would like to thank everyone who added comments. The speed at which you responded was incredible and the information was always spot on! I really needed hand-holding during this process, since I've never cracked a Tivo before and you were all very patient. Thanks.

Summary:

This started with my TiVO TCD658000 HD XL getting an S03 error during an update cycle. I was eventually able to overcome the S03 error, but then just left the system to slowly die. I should have taken the time right then to replace the drive, but I waited. A month later the system stopped responding and wouldn't boot-up. The drive and software was corrupted but I didn't know it at the time.

With the advice of folks on this board I decided to fix it myself. I'm pretty handy but as it turns out it was a really easy fix. I bought a 2TB WD AV drive based on recommendations ($85) and set about cloning my old drive to the new one.

(Lesson 1), when cloning from small to bigger drives clone do not take the prompt to increase capacity as WINMFS suggests. Instead, let it complete and use the MFSADD to add the additional capacity. WinMFS worked great, I used the one for windows rather than the one that came on a boot CD.

What i soon discovered is that the new cloned drive wouldn't boot in my system. I would get the waiting to start logo screen, but it would be washed out and the fan would be running at high speed. That told me that the system hung. I would guess that I just cloned corruption from the last drive and thus it wouldn't start. I didn't care about the data, so I went back and tried another route.

Plan B: Use a tivo drive image (300MB download, thanks Unitron) with WinMFS and create a new system drive. This had several issues that I will share.

1) The drive booted up correctly, but when I went to do a Clear and erase (which you absolutely have to do) I got a purple screen, which i believed meant it was hung.
2) re-imaged and tried again, this time i did a guided setup, because I thought (wrongly) that getting information into the system might make the clear and erase work...it didn't. I also thought the system hung during the guided setup where it was just sitting for hours on "preparing network". It wasn't hung.

Finally, I decided to just give it some more time, and guess what? it worked out.

In the end I did what I should have done from the start. Load the drive image on the new HDD (6 min) expand it to see all the storage (1 sec), load it in the tivo and boot (6 min). Then do a clear and erase (hours?)...In this case it eventually gave me a purple screen which i thought meant it was hung, but after leaving it alone for a long while, it completed. I rebooted and came to the virgin start screen (guided setup for first time users). That made me happy.

I went through the guided setup (15-20 min). Let it do the full update (this took a long time Hour or so) and finally rebooted. Now everything was good but the cable cards. I called my cable co and in 10 min they re-paired the card and i had all my channels.

So in the end the biggest lesson was to be patient and wait. I hate the way Tivo doesn't have any external signs that help with troubleshooting...but that's what we have to work with.

The Purple screen, might mean hang, or it might just mean thinking...

The first time update takes forever because it's loading firmware updates (my image was older).

Clear and erase everything first after loading image.

that's it. I put my boot time in an earlier post so people can tell how long they should wait for things to start up on this type of Tivo.

thanks again to everyone for you help!
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:40 PM   #19
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Actually what you should do is, whether copying the old drive to the new or loading an image to the new, let that complete, then say no when WinMFS offers to expand, then check the new drive with

mfsinfo

and only then, as a separate step, do the expansion with

mfsadd


Why? Because, for whatever reason, sometimes the expansion doesn't actually happen with the other way, and I think there are even times when it screws up the image you just put on there to the point that the new drive won't boot in the TiVo.

WlnMFS's Linux based, command line predecessor, MFS Live, seems to have the same problem when the

-x option is invoked during the write process to include expansion, and the fix is the same--do it separately with

mfsadd
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