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Old 12-10-2013, 04:53 PM   #91
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Man women watch stupid TV! My wife almost exclusively watches reality TV and talk shows. We watch a few network shows together, like CSI, Criminal Minds and The Mentalist, but for the most part she spends her TV time watching Real Housewives, Teen Mom, Dance Moms, etc... I can't even stand listening to that crap when I'm in the other room playing on my iPad let alone actually watching it.
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:49 PM   #92
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Man women watch stupid TV! My wife almost exclusively watches reality TV and talk shows. We watch a few network shows together, like CSI, Criminal Minds and The Mentalist, but for the most part she spends her TV time watching Real Housewives, Teen Mom, Dance Moms, etc... I can't even stand listening to that crap when I'm in the other room playing on my iPad let alone actually watching it.
A lot of men watch stupid reality drama TV too. I hate it.

As for the video incorrect scaling, I am 100% with you. I can tolerate SD on occasion, but it better be at the native aspect ratio or *BARF*.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:44 AM   #93
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I literally never watching anything SD except industry screeners which are beginning to pour in as always this time of year. And even that annoys me!! I mean hell you're trying to impress me with your product, the least you can do is deliver it on bluray.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:47 AM   #94
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I would be happy if the content was delivered in 1080p before worrying about 4K. Only DirecTv and maybe DISH will have the bandwidth to even consider more than maybe one or two 4K channels anyway. Im waiting for an affordable 60" OLED that isnt curved. I would be much more interested in spending my cash on that.
The curved sets are just horrible. It serves no purpose other than to make the set look "cool".
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Old 12-11-2013, 03:45 PM   #95
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I read an article that specifically quoted LG and Samsung as saying that the current price points on OLED are so high that they went with the curved screen specifically to make them look cool and appeal to the type of people that can actually afford them. If they made them flat they wouldn't look much different then LCD TVs but with a much higher price.

As the technology improves and becomes more reasonable then it will eventually replace LCD for high end flat TVs.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:30 PM   #96
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[...]If they made them flat they wouldn't look much different then LCD TVs but with a much higher price.

As the technology improves and becomes more reasonable then it will eventually replace LCD for high end flat TVs.
I wouldn't be too sure. Remember, LCD today is not LCD of 20 years ago or 10 years ago or even a few years ago. That technology is improving continuously also. At this point, the gap between LCD and LED is closing more and more. At the point LED sets are actually affordable, there might be little to no advantage of LED anymore...

Look at LCD vs. LED displays on phones. Personally, I find the LCD ones to be much sharper and pleasant to look at. The LED ones have a little bit blacker blacks and a little better viewing angle. But they also wash out a lot easier.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #97
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I think the big advantage of OLED is that they're capable of being paper thin (hence the ability to have a curved screen) and super light. They'll eventually be able to make huge TVs that are light enough to be hung on the wall like a painting without special mounts. This would also significantly cut the costs of shipping and reduce storage space in warehouses. It's been a while since I read about it but I think that they are also easier to manufacturer. I know they have yield problems right now, and that's what's driving up costs, but I believe that they make OLED screens by basically printing them on a giant inkjet. As the materials improve, yields will improve, and OLEDs should eventually be cheaper then LCDs to make. But who knows. They've been improving LCD so fast that all the advantages of OLED may become irrelevant by the time they come to fruition.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:18 PM   #98
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A lot of people I know are watching SD on a nice HDTV, it not my problem, but some of these people also stretch the SD picture to fill the screen UG!!
My GFs mom does this. WHen they got DirecTV they only got STBs. I told them to get the DVRs and make sure they could get HD but didn't listen. So for no extra cost they could have had HD DVRs for their TVs. Instead, they only are SD capable on their HD sets. Although she is in her late 80's so I guess I can give her some slack.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:20 PM   #99
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The worst is if they use one of those non-linear scaling modes that stretches the edges more than the middle. Whenever the camera pans horizontally I get seasick.

I find myself looking for someplace to sit where the TV is out of sight whenever I'm at the house of someone who does that.
I used to use that mode back in 2001. I thought it was better than the linear stretch. But sometime in 2002 I stopped stretching anything and viewing it in the normal aspect ratio. Since then I can't stand any type of stretching of 4:3 content.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:23 PM   #100
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I read an article that specifically quoted LG and Samsung as saying that the current price points on OLED are so high that they went with the curved screen specifically to make them look cool and appeal to the type of people that can actually afford them. If they made them flat they wouldn't look much different then LCD TVs but with a much higher price.

As the technology improves and becomes more reasonable then it will eventually replace LCD for high end flat TVs.
I couldn't stand the curved OLED that BestBuy had. And several feet away was the Sony 84" 4K set. Which was much better looking than the OLED.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:53 PM   #101
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I think the big advantage of OLED is that they're capable of being paper thin (hence the ability to have a curved screen) and super light. They'll eventually be able to make huge TVs that are light enough to be hung on the wall like a painting without special mounts. This would also significantly cut the costs of shipping and reduce storage space in warehouses.
Yeah, I don't think LCD will be getting all THAT much lighter or thinner than what the best offered now is. Then they would offer *MONITORS* instead- no speakers, no tuners, no "smart" crap, then an LED TV could theoretically be extremely thin... like just a few mm or less. They will have more problems just trying to keep them from "curling"
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:35 AM   #102
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The curved sets are just horrible. It serves no purpose other than to make the set look "cool".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I read an article that specifically quoted LG and Samsung as saying that the current price points on OLED are so high that they went with the curved screen specifically to make them look cool and appeal to the type of people that can actually afford them. If they made them flat they wouldn't look much different then LCD TVs but with a much higher price..
I read the same article
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:00 AM   #103
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I think the big advantage of OLED is that they're capable of being paper thin (hence the ability to have a curved screen) and super light. They'll eventually be able to make huge TVs that are light enough to be hung on the wall like a painting without special mounts. This would also significantly cut the costs of shipping and reduce storage space in warehouses. It's been a while since I read about it but I think that they are also easier to manufacturer. I know they have yield problems right now, and that's what's driving up costs, but I believe that they make OLED screens by basically printing them on a giant inkjet. As the materials improve, yields will improve, and OLEDs should eventually be cheaper then LCDs to make. But who knows. They've been improving LCD so fast that all the advantages of OLED may become irrelevant by the time they come to fruition.
OLED's picture quality is their best feature. There is no backlight on an OLED TV, and they have excellent black levels. Also, better contrast than LED or LCD backlit TV's, and no "blooming" to contend with.

It will take years, but I believe that once OLED matures, and becomes more affordable, it will be the high end display of choice with LED being the mainstream (lower end) offering. For the record, I have a local dimming LED TV, so I have nothing against LED. I just believe that OLED is going to be the future.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:21 AM   #104
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OLED's picture quality is their best feature. There is no backlight on an OLED TV, and they have excellent black levels. Also, better contrast than LED or LCD backlit TV's, and no "blooming" to contend with.

It will take years, but I believe that once OLED matures, and becomes more affordable, it will be the high end display of choice with LED being the mainstream (lower end) offering. For the record, I have a local dimming LED TV, so I have nothing against LED. I just believe that OLED is going to be the future.
In about 5 to 10 years you may be correct, OLED has been out, what about 8 years now ? and we are just starting to OLED HDTV with big screens and big prices.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:52 PM   #105
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Any recent opinions, in view of developments, as to updating from a Premiere to a Roamio now or waiting for a 4k Tivo (with the assumption that I'd be upgrading to a 4k tv in the next year or two.)?
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:49 AM   #106
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Any recent opinions, in view of developments, as to updating from a Premiere to a Roamio now or waiting for a 4k Tivo (with the assumption that I'd be upgrading to a 4k tv in the next year or two.)?
And where would get real 4K resolution from that would use any TiVo even if TiVo had 4K resolution. BD + is the only way I can see full 4K delivery, and that does not involve TiVo.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:43 AM   #107
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Any recent opinions, in view of developments, as to updating from a Premiere to a Roamio now or waiting for a 4k Tivo (with the assumption that I'd be upgrading to a 4k tv in the next year or two.)?
You will be waiting a very, very long time if you think you are going to see a 4K TiVo. You might want to just update now.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:11 AM   #108
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Yeah, 4K adoption is probably even slower than 3D TVs. Because at least a 3D TV can use existing standards (if you can do 1080p, you can do 3D with *zero* changes to your infrastructure - you'll just use one of the half-resolution modes). It's how TV stations and all that could quickly transmit a 3D signal.

4K, well, it requires a total overhaul of the infrastructure. Today, a 4K TV using HDMI 1.4a (needed for full resolution 3D) also gives you only 24, 25 or 30fps. And HDMI 2.0 is just starting to come out (yay, after all the early adopters pick up 4K, a year later they get screwed).

And since 4K is about quality, you need a higher bandwidth source. Not likely through broadcast TV (3D was easy since very little needed changing).

Plus, people are realizing they sit too damn far away from the TV most of the time, so a plain old 1080p set is "retina" to them. Going 4K means sitting even closer to the set to get the benefits, to the point of being uncomfortable. So you also need either a wife who will let you go from that 50" to 100", or a wife who complains the living room is too spread out and the furniture needs to move closer in.

4K for computers though makes some sense, but you're not going to need TiVo for that.

So get a Roamio, enjoy that, because if 4K makes it to where you need TiVo, your Roamio is probably collected an inch of dust in the garage as you'd have upgraded long before then.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:14 AM   #109
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If you access Netflix through Tivo and watch Netflix 4k using a 4k tv (equipped for Netflix 4k), will you have an actual 4k picture (as you would if you accessed Netflix through, say, an Apple TV)?
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:40 PM   #110
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If you access Netflix through Tivo and watch Netflix 4k using a 4k tv (equipped for Netflix 4k), will you have an actual 4k picture (as you would if you accessed Netflix through, say, an Apple TV)?
Not sure I 100% understand your question, but my understanding is that right now the only way to get 4K Netflix is by using the Netflix app on a 4K TV. Other existing streaming devices (Roku, Apple TV, TiVo etc.) can not stream Netflix in 4K.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:59 PM   #111
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Not sure I 100% understand your question, but my understanding is that right now the only way to get 4K Netflix is by using the Netflix app on a 4K TV. Other existing streaming devices (Roku, Apple TV, TiVo etc.) can not stream Netflix in 4K.
I'd be willing to bet that the next generation Roku will be capable of 4K. It's just the next logical step.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:03 PM   #112
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I'd be willing to bet that the next generation Roku will be capable of 4K. It's just the next logical step.
I had figured 3D was the next step. But when the Roku 3 was released it didn't support 3D. People with 4K TVs is still a very, very minor number of people. But then 3D is also. Although there are many, many times the amount of 3D TVS out there than 4K TVs.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:33 PM   #113
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Not sure I 100% understand your question, but my understanding is that right now the only way to get 4K Netflix is by using the Netflix app on a 4K TV. Other existing streaming devices (Roku, Apple TV, TiVo etc.) can not stream Netflix in 4K.
Oh. So, could the upgrading/updating of the Tivo Netflix app result in 4K so that it could pass through to a 4k tv or would the Tivo software itself have to be updated so as to provide a 4k signal to a tv? In other words, even if there is no 4k cable and even if Tivo does not/cannot currently record 4k television, could a Netflix app software update allow current Roamios to provide 4k programming from Netflix? Apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge.
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:18 PM   #114
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HDMI 1.4 allows for UHD. But the TiVo chipset would also need to be capable outputting Ultra HD.
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:26 PM   #115
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Oh. So, could the upgrading/updating of the Tivo Netflix app result in 4K so that it could pass through to a 4k tv or would the Tivo software itself have to be updated so as to provide a 4k signal to a tv? In other words, even if there is no 4k cable and even if Tivo does not/cannot currently record 4k television, could a Netflix app software update allow current Roamios to provide 4k programming from Netflix? Apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge.
Why would this be needed as all 4K HDTV will have their own Netflix 4k app built in, now many HDVT do not have any Netflix app built in so the Netflix/Roamio app makes sense, pushing the Roamio to pass through 4k will gain you (or TiVo) nothing.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:52 PM   #116
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The Roamio does not, can not, and will not support 4k video, either OTT through Netflix, or through VoD, or through broadcast signals.

Can we please lock this annoyingly persistent topic?
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:31 AM   #117
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[b]Can we please lock this annoyingly persistent topic?
Sorry to annoy you. Hope the impact on your life has not been severe.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:35 AM   #118
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... could a Netflix app software update allow current Roamios to provide 4k programming from Netflix? ...
The general conscious is no - there will also need to be a hardware update. This is believed to be the same for pretty much all existing streaming devices (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Blu-ray players etc.), the only possible (likely?) exception might be new Blu-ray players that indicate they are 4K/UHD ready.

If 4K/UHD TVs sell well and other sources (Vudu?, YouTube?, HBO to go? Amazon?) of 4K/UHD content start to so up we might start to see hardware updates for some of these devices. But I am guessing that the 4K/UHD TVs will be the streaming devices them selves for at least the next few years. If TiVo is ever going to build DVRs that supports 4K/UHD or not is really an unknown but I find it unlikely to be anytime soon.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:30 PM   #119
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I do like the 4K (or to be nit-picky UHD) monitor I just got for my computer though :-).
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:51 PM   #120
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Sorry to annoy you. Hope the impact on your life has not been severe.
It's been hard, but I am persevering.

It's just that it's a simple question, with a simple answer. It seems like no one is happy with the simple answer so they then ask, Well, what if this, or that.

No what ifs, it's not happening, it's not possible.
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