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Old 06-13-2014, 01:10 PM   #1171
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Duplicate; sorry.

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Old 06-13-2014, 02:07 PM   #1172
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That's why you match prices. The manufacturer doesn't offer or publish a lower price. But they sure can match a lower price offered by a retailer.
And you think the retail people will not find out, TiVo too small to try to price match and take any chances with the retail part of its business, also the biggest margin is from TiVo selling the service that you can only get from TiVo itself, a few $ loss for the hardware sale is more than made up from the service revenue.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:27 PM   #1173
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Sony.
Indeed you're right; I hadn't realized Sony was doing that. But the point remains that TiVo needs its retailers. TiVo doesn't want to be the ones selling merchandise; they do it as a service to their customers and not as a profit center. They aren't big enough to get economies of scale in selling and never will be (and don't want to be).
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:41 PM   #1174
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I'm in agreement on that TiVo, like many who provide products, can't risk alienating their resellers by matching prices. Best they can do is the occasional "special promotional offer", which we can then try to get resellers to match.

When Best Buy was supposed to have the exclusive rights to be the first to sell Premieres (for like a week or two), TiVo didn't honor that deal (or failed to properly instruct other resellers to hold-off). Best Buy was livid, and didn't keep it to themselves. There was quite a schism for some time following that. AFAIK, BB still hasn't forgotten.

To make matters worse, when TiVo had a huge hardware price drop in-motion, at least one reseller didn't honor a "don't sell before" directive from TiVo, selling before TiVo had a chance to jack up the rates on service, and publish the new ToS/EULA.

TiVo could have enforced the new pricing, but made one of their best customer relation decisions by honoring the "old" service pricing on TSNs in the records as being low-price hardware, with higher service price, even on lifetime.

Not all product providers even sell directly. They choose to stay out of it, and leave all the logistics and headaches to the resellers. TiVo likely would prefer this model, but their product/service marriage makes that harder to do.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:06 PM   #1175
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That's why you match prices. The manufacturer doesn't offer or publish a lower price. But they sure can match a lower price offered by a retailer.
They won't. They don't want to lose their retail partners.

And not sure Tivo even has lower costs when it comes to selling its own products than an Amazon or Walmart who have the benefits of economies of scale.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:18 AM   #1176
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I'm sure some prefer to buy from TiVo even at a higher price. You get your dvr already activated for service among other reasons.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:49 AM   #1177
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More importantly to me, what incentive is there for me, a loyal Tivo customer for years, to purchase directly from Tivo when I can purchase from a reliable retailer like Amazon at 15-20% cheaper?

But, as to your question, Tivo is the manufacturer. The direct incentive is that the profit margin is higher on units they directly sell to consumers than they wholesale to retailers. And, if they are being consistently undersold by major retailers, they clearly will lose retail sales.


And second, the incentive is exactly the same as it is for the 90+% of mass retailers which do offer price matching. Third, it's one thing to refuse to price match some shady newly created site, or some tiny or specialized retailer. But Amazon, which doesn't even charge tax in many states?

Finally, I'm still curious, why the apparent change in the willingness or ability of Tivo telephone reps to offer incentives to close the deal? Have I just talked to the wrong reps or have the policies just changed?

Please understand, I'm not angry with Tivo over this, because they have the right to set whatever sales policies they want (even if they're, at least arguably, counterproductive) just as I can purchase the units wherever I choose.
It depends on what they offer you. I purchased my Roamio Basic through Tivo because that was the only way they said that they would transfer my $6.95 a month rate. This was back in November. So they sold me the Basic for $175, transferred the $6.95 rate from my Premiere. And then after it was transferred, gave me lifetime on the Premiere for $99. I was very pleased with that. Although I still need to sell my Lifetime Premiere sometime.
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:35 AM   #1178
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Wonder why Tivo phone sales reps won't match Amazon prices? Interested in buying Roamio Plus and 3 Minis and preferred to get them direct from Tivo. Called Tivo and while they would offer the current Tivo offer ($50 off the Roamio Plus), they refused to match the current Amazon prices. Why is this in Tivo's interests? And why do Tivo's phone reps seem much less interested in making deals or matching prices (or having much less authority to do such) than they did a few years ago when I purchased a Premiere a few years ago? Does this depend on whom I talk to or maybe when I call?
Just buy the coupon code from ebay and use on tivo.com instead. That's the cheapest way to go.
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:57 AM   #1179
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Just buy the coupon code from ebay and use on tivo.com instead. That's the cheapest way to go.
For reasons posted upthread (including the stated non-transferability of the offer on which the coupons are based), I'm reluctant to use the coupons for lifetime just in case Tivo at some point audits the lifetime subscriptions purchased via the coupons, and then revokes. The potential loss of lifetime, to me--at least for now--outweighs the savings. And some of that savings can be made up via Amazon in that Amazon is substantially cheaper than Tivo for the Roamio + and the Mini. Also, on at least one occasion (maybe more?) Tivo telephone support offered the Mini box for half off with purchase of lifetime. Maybe they will again?
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:24 PM   #1180
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For reasons posted upthread (including the stated non-transferability of the offer on which the coupons are based), I'm reluctant to use the coupons for lifetime just in case Tivo at some point audits the lifetime subscriptions purchased via the coupons, and then revokes. The potential loss of lifetime, to me--at least for now--outweighs the savings. And some of that savings can be made up via Amazon in that Amazon is substantially cheaper than Tivo for the Roamio + and the Mini. Also, on at least one occasion (maybe more?) Tivo telephone support offered the Mini box for half off with purchase of lifetime. Maybe they will again?
Even if TiVo did an audit and revoked the lifetime service as you suggest, they would have to refund you the money you paid for it.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:16 PM   #1181
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Even if TiVo did an audit and revoked the lifetime service as you suggest, they would have to refund you the money you paid for it.
I don't know that that is actually true, since I am not aware of a previous instance in which this type of situation has occurred, but even if true, the portion of the overall purchase price that is for the lifetime subscription is $300. That is only $99 less than the multi-service PLS price of $399.

I purchased and used a code happily, and if as a result, I'm only putting $99 at risk, I'm happy to have taken that gamble.

Having said that, I don't see it as a gamble at all. I fully expect this purchase to be 100% legit, with no problems or audits down the road...
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:39 AM   #1182
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I don't know that that is actually true, since I am not aware of a previous instance in which this type of situation has occurred, but even if true, the portion of the overall purchase price that is for the lifetime subscription is $300. That is only $99 less than the multi-service PLS price of $399.

I purchased and used a code happily, and if as a result, I'm only putting $99 at risk, I'm happy to have taken that gamble.

Having said that, I don't see it as a gamble at all. I fully expect this purchase to be 100% legit, with no problems or audits down the road...
Do you think that TiVo does not know about the E-Bay code sales??, they know, so I do not expect TiVo is just sitting back waiting for all the codes to be used than sucker punch all the people that were not authorized to use the codes. I think this is a sneaky way to get more sales without getting the retail stores panties in a twist. (Hay; it your employees that are selling their codes, go after them not us)
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:41 AM   #1183
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I don't know that that is actually true, since I am not aware of a previous instance in which this type of situation has occurred, but even if true, the portion of the overall purchase price that is for the lifetime subscription is $300. That is only $99 less than the multi-service PLS price of $399.
I'm saying that legally they cannot sell you a service and later decide to revoke the service you paid for without refunding you the money. If they did, you can sue them, or more likely there would be a class action lawsuit against them from everyone whose lifetime service they revoked.
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:13 AM   #1184
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For reasons posted upthread (including the stated non-transferability of the offer on which the coupons are based), I'm reluctant to use the coupons for lifetime just in case Tivo at some point audits the lifetime subscriptions purchased via the coupons, and then revokes.
OMG! Get the tin foil hat!

Seriously, your loss.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:00 AM   #1185
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Do you think that TiVo does not know about the E-Bay code sales??, they know, so I do not expect TiVo is just sitting back waiting for all the codes to be used than sucker punch all the people that were not authorized to use the codes. I think this is a sneaky way to get more sales without getting the retail stores panties in a twist. (Hay; it your employees that are selling their codes, go after them not us)
I'm with you that I am sure that TiVo is aware of the code sales. I'm a happy purchaser of one from Spherular and do not expect any consequences down the road. My only point was that even if I was wrong, which I'm pretty sure I'm not, that that's a gamble I was obviously happy to make.

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I'm saying that legally they cannot sell you a service and later decide to revoke the service you paid for without refunding you the money. If they did, you can sue them, or more likely there would be a class action lawsuit against them from everyone whose lifetime service they revoked.
Agreed.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:36 AM   #1186
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I'm saying that legally they cannot sell you a service and later decide to revoke the service you paid for without refunding you the money. If they did, you can sue them, or more likely there would be a class action lawsuit against them from everyone whose lifetime service they revoked.
If your purchase was under false pretense from any Co., TiVo included, the co. or the law could take action, in this case IMHO TiVo not going to take any action, but see this from the SC, has nothing to do with TiVo but is does about making false statements.
http://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court-...--finance.html
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:20 PM   #1187
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I'm saying that legally they cannot sell you a service and later decide to revoke the service you paid for without refunding you the money. If they did, you can sue them, or more likely there would be a class action lawsuit against them from everyone whose lifetime service they revoked.
That makes sense, although laws don't always make sense. In any case, attempting to revoke any type of paid lifetime service would appear to be a desperate act by a company circling the toilet bowl for the last time before disappearing. I certainly hope TiVo never gets that desperate.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:57 PM   #1188
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If your purchase was under false pretense from any Co., TiVo included, the co. or the law could take action, in this case IMHO TiVo not going to take any action, but see this from the SC, has nothing to do with TiVo but is does about making false statements.
http://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court-...--finance.html
Apples and oranges. What you say would hold water if, when you enter the code on the TiVo website, they then displayed a full list of the terms and conditions of the sale. But they do not - they simply adjust the price and mark it as "Product bundle" pricing. Terms of sale can only be set at the time of the sale and must be an explicit part of the sales contract. Distributing restrictive terms with codes, if they did, is meaningless other than as a point of edification. They are not binding unless expressed at the point of sale.

To say that terms not noted during the sale were effective would be like your bank saying "I know the mortgage SAYS it was for 30 years, but the flyer we have in the bank says that you only get 20 years and then have to refinance for the last 10." Do you think that would fly in court? Neither would TiVo revoking lifetime service because these codes weren't supposed to be resold (again, if they stipulated such at all).
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:14 PM   #1189
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I will say that I used one of spherular's codes and with everything up and running, it was pretty easy (other than Mini setups but that's another part of the fourms) and it was worth it to me.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:28 AM   #1190
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Apples and oranges. What you say would hold water if, when you enter the code on the TiVo website, they then displayed a full list of the terms and conditions of the sale. But they do not - they simply adjust the price and mark it as "Product bundle" pricing. Terms of sale can only be set at the time of the sale and must be an explicit part of the sales contract. Distributing restrictive terms with codes, if they did, is meaningless other than as a point of edification. They are not binding unless expressed at the point of sale.

To say that terms not noted during the sale were effective would be like your bank saying "I know the mortgage SAYS it was for 30 years, but the flyer we have in the bank says that you only get 20 years and then have to refinance for the last 10." Do you think that would fly in court? Neither would TiVo revoking lifetime service because these codes weren't supposed to be resold (again, if they stipulated such at all).
You are most likely correct but until any legal theory is tested in court one never knows with 100% accuracy, TiVo not going to go that far, IMHO.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:56 AM   #1191
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For anyone not interested in using the eBay code, Best Buy and Amazon both have the Pro discounted $100 (sale price $499) and the Plus discounted $75 (sale price $325). In the last couple months, I saved up $300 in Best Buy gift cards so going with this deal was the best option for me.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:16 AM   #1192
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You are most likely correct but until any legal theory is tested in court one never knows with 100% accuracy, TiVo not going to go that far, IMHO.
These are not some novel legal theories that need to be tested. These are basic contract law principles that have existed for hundreds of years. One party to a contract cannot unilaterally revoke the contract unless the contract terms specifically say they can. Not only that, but contracts written by one party are strictly construed against the writer, meaning if TiVo's written contract terms are in any way vague or open to interpretation, the non-writing party wins. AND even if TiVo could revoke the contract under the written terms of the contract, they still wouldn't get to keep all of your money, as that would constitute unjust enrichment. They would have to refund at least part of your lifetime service fee.
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:27 PM   #1193
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These are not some novel legal theories that need to be tested. These are basic contract law principles that have existed for hundreds of years. One party to a contract cannot unilaterally revoke the contract unless the contract terms specifically say they can. Not only that, but contracts written by one party are strictly construed against the writer, meaning if TiVo's written contract terms are in any way vague or open to interpretation, the non-writing party wins. AND even if TiVo could revoke the contract under the written terms of the contract, they still wouldn't get to keep all of your money, as that would constitute unjust enrichment. They would have to refund at least part of your lifetime service fee.
You are correct in most cases but in the past some (very few) contracts have been voided because the court decided they were too unfair to one party. Badly written prenuptial contracts is one easy example to find.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:58 AM   #1194
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OMG! Get the tin foil hat!

Seriously, your loss.
So basically this.

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Old 06-21-2014, 07:21 PM   #1195
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Just a Me too, Thanks go to spherular2 for the great deal on ebay. (TiVo Promo Discount Sale Service). Hassle free savings, a way better deal than TiVo's own upgrade offer!
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:41 AM   #1196
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Also took the plunge with spherular (thanks!).

The hardware arrives tomorrow, Tivo Tuesday! The family can't wait.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:30 AM   #1197
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I'm glad I checked here. I was about to pull the trigger on a sale priced Plus and 3TB drive to install.

Looks like I can get the ebay code and still save some bucks (and have a genuine Pro)
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:25 AM   #1198
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You are correct in most cases but in the past some (very few) contracts have been voided because the court decided they were too unfair to one party. Badly written prenuptial contracts is one easy example to find.
Which could not apply in this case. TiVo is setting the contract terms and so can not ask the court to void the contract because it is unfair to them.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:48 AM   #1199
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Which could not apply in this case. TiVo is setting the contract terms and so can not ask the court to void the contract because it is unfair to them.
The fact that people that TiVo did not intend to use these codes did use these codes may be the part that is unfair to TiVo.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:06 PM   #1200
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The fact that people that TiVo did not intend to use these codes did use these codes may be the part that is unfair to TiVo.
They should have explicitly made them non-transferable. OTOH, except for the logistics of the transfer, how is this any different from the original coupon recipient buying the TiVo and then selling it to someone else?
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