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Old 06-13-2014, 05:33 PM   #1
socrplyr
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World Cup: Duplicate Issue

Anyone else have the Spain Netherlands game not record due to it being a duplicate?
Thanks,
Josh
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:55 PM   #2
socrplyr
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Well I guess I just found what I would consider a bug in Tivo's recording scheduler management. Looks like if you have two season passes for the same thing on different channels, the higher priority season pass takes precedence over the one that airs it first. So in this case, it scheduled it to be recorded tomorrow on ESPN2 instead of today on ESPN since my season pass priority happened to be ABC then ESPN2 then ESPN. Here it called the first airing the duplicate and kept the recording for the second airing. I think season pass priority should really only affect what gets recorded when the number of recordings would exceed the number of available tuners. However, in this case, I bet Tivo schedules the recordings in order of season pass priority. When it got to the ESPN season pass, the algorithm said that it already had a recording scheduled and didn't look at the date/time to see which was first.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:07 PM   #3
dbattaglia001
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Originally Posted by socrplyr View Post
Well I guess I just found what I would consider a bug in Tivo's recording scheduler management. Looks like if you have two season passes for the same thing on different channels, the higher priority season pass takes precedence over the one that airs it first. So in this case, it scheduled it to be recorded tomorrow on ESPN2 instead of today on ESPN since my season pass priority happened to be ABC then ESPN2 then ESPN. Here it called the first airing the duplicate and kept the recording for the second airing. I think season pass priority should really only affect what gets recorded when the number of recordings would exceed the number of available tuners. However, in this case, I bet Tivo schedules the recordings in order of season pass priority. When it got to the ESPN season pass, the algorithm said that it already had a recording scheduled and didn't look at the date/time to see which was first.
While not recording world cup, I have similar issues with my White Sox and Blackhawks season passes....it would always pick the MLB network or NHL network listing to record...but that gets blacked out in local market, so I saw SOL. I tried to be diligent in reviewing to do list but once in awhile I'd still get burned. After getting a Roamio Pro with lots of storage, I discovered an effective workaround...I modified my season pass to be the one "ALL with duplicates" or whatever it's called. So while I need to delete out the extraneous recordings, I find that less annoying than missing the first run game.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:09 PM   #4
mattack
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Originally Posted by socrplyr View Post
Well I guess I just found what I would consider a bug in Tivo's recording scheduler management. Looks like if you have two season passes for the same thing on different channels, the higher priority season pass takes precedence over the one that airs it first.
I think it's arguable (and I could actually argue it both ways!) whether that's a bug.

My black box perspective of how the SP scheduler works is essentially that.. look at SP #1, find matches, set recordings... look at SP #2, find matches, set recordings... and so on until the # of tuners is taken up.

You're sort of asking for more of a 'best fit' algorithm.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:05 AM   #5
socrplyr
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I think it's arguable (and I could actually argue it both ways!) whether that's a bug.

My black box perspective of how the SP scheduler works is essentially that.. look at SP #1, find matches, set recordings... look at SP #2, find matches, set recordings... and so on until the # of tuners is taken up.

You're sort of asking for more of a 'best fit' algorithm.
I agree that what I am suggesting would be a little more complicated algorithm to implement, but not extremely so.

My beliefs are:
SP priority should only impact recordings that happen at the same time. It should not impact recordings at different times. The decision whether or not some recording is a duplicate of another has nothing to do with the SP priority. This is not about the actual SP priority, but has more to do with the scheduler. Those would be two completely different functions for Tivo (although the scheduler does rely on the SP priority).

I don't think you would ever get anyone from Tivo to tell you that this is intended behavior. That makes it a bug. For my company this would be a "Priority 3: Defect, with workaround." The workaround being what was suggested by dbattaglia001. It would be a defect (not an annoyance), because it can cause a system failure. In this case for Tivo, recording shows would the a top level requirement, so missing one is a system failure.

Now do I think Tivo will fix this, probably not. If the right people happen to hear about it and one of them took a special desire to get it fixed.

Last edited by socrplyr : 06-14-2014 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:35 AM   #6
moyekj
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I didn't have trouble since I have a Wishlist to record all World Cup matches, so it will record 1st available match on any channel (and I have all SD versions of channels removed from my lineup).
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:52 PM   #7
socrplyr
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I didn't have trouble since I have a Wishlist to record all World Cup matches, so it will record 1st available match on any channel (and I have all SD versions of channels removed from my lineup).
Yeah, I was contemplating doing that. I went with season passes as all I had to do was say get season pass and didn't have to go elsewhere. However, you just mentioned another issue. You have to remove the SD channels to get things from wishlists in HD. I think there should be some kind of preference allowed to be set on them for that. I bet most Tivo owners never edit the channel list. That one isn't necessarily a bug, but the function could be enhanced easily. For example, they could attempt to put the SD and HD line up side by side for you to delete the SD channels in a much easier manner. Thus it would be a manual process, but it becomes easy to do.
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:12 PM   #8
moyekj
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Originally Posted by socrplyr View Post
Yeah, I was contemplating doing that. I went with season passes as all I had to do was say get season pass and didn't have to go elsewhere. However, you just mentioned another issue. You have to remove the SD channels to get things from wishlists in HD. I think there should be some kind of preference allowed to be set on them for that. I bet most Tivo owners never edit the channel list. That one isn't necessarily a bug, but the function could be enhanced easily. For example, they could attempt to put the SD and HD line up side by side for you to delete the SD channels in a much easier manner. Thus it would be a manual process, but it becomes easy to do.
It used to be TiVo would always record the lowest # channel with the program which was usually the SD channels. At some point in last few years it now records the highest channel #. This jives well with my lineup since Cox adds 1000 to channel #s for all the HD versions, so HD channel #s are all > SD channel #s, so technically I wouldn't even need to remove SD channels from lineup for wishlist to work as desired.

I'm too lazy to look now, but I seem to recall there was an option for "HD only" in wishlists, but I'm not sure if that's still around or not. I do remember it can be buggy though with recordings on HD channels not being marked HD hence resulting in missed recordings.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:46 AM   #9
socrplyr
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
It used to be TiVo would always record the lowest # channel with the program which was usually the SD channels. At some point in last few years it now records the highest channel #. This jives well with my lineup since Cox adds 1000 to channel #s for all the HD versions, so HD channel #s are all > SD channel #s, so technically I wouldn't even need to remove SD channels from lineup for wishlist to work as desired.

I'm too lazy to look now, but I seem to recall there was an option for "HD only" in wishlists, but I'm not sure if that's still around or not. I do remember it can be buggy though with recordings on HD channels not being marked HD hence resulting in missed recordings.
I didn't know they had switched the order around. That would work out for me as well.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:27 PM   #10
mattack
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Originally Posted by socrplyr View Post
My beliefs are:
SP priority should only impact recordings that happen at the same time. It should not impact recordings at different times. The decision whether or not some recording is a duplicate of another has nothing to do with the SP priority. This is not about the actual SP priority, but has more to do with the scheduler. Those would be two completely different functions for Tivo (although the scheduler does rely on the SP priority).
Yes, it has to do with the scheduler.. But as I described (from the outside the box perspective), the scheduler and the priority are intertwined. It *sets* the schedule based upon your SP rankings.. Not *just* duplicates in the same time slot.
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