TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Mini
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 40 votes, 4.63 average.
Old 05-16-2014, 09:05 PM   #271
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by filovirus View Post
Which POE filter should I use for MOCA? I see some filter to 860 Mhz and others up to 1 Ghz. Prefer something from ebay that ships free and gets the job done.
The ones that block below 1GHz are for MSO (cableco) MoCA, in scenarios when they place the Moca "in-band". Consumer MoCA operates at >1GHz.

Using a filter that blocks lower than 1GHz can block channels, or cable modem frequencies.

Cox, in my market, uses the full 1GHz spectrum, and if I were to use a filter below 1Ghz, I'd block some of my cable modem downstreams, and lose all my H.264 channels, that are in the >960MHz spectrum.

If your MSO doesn't have a 1GHz network, none of this would likely affect you, unless the high-end of what the filter blocks is shifted lower, due to the low-end frequency being lower. If both block to the same high-end, then the only potential issue would be if your MSO upgraded to a 1GHz network, in the future (you'd have to change to filters that start at >1GHz).

My PoE filters are:
Antronix GLF-1002B1
Reject band: 1125-3000MHz
Pass band: 5-1002MHz

Some brands, like these (provided by Cox), even splitters, say 1002MHz, when the 2MHz higher "pass-band" is not required, just a marketing gimmick. Cox uses a mix of splitters rated 1GHz (1000MHz), and ones rated 1002MHz, while they ONLY use the filter I gave the specs on. There's no real-world difference. My Cox market uses the consumer/retail OOB MoCA band for their own MoCA devices (OOB = Out Of Band), so their filters work for both their MoCA devices, while also working for consumer/retail MoCA devices.

I hope this helps. If anybody is confused by any of it, I'd be happy to help clarify anything.

Added note: MoCA signals operate at such a high-power, compared to all the rest of the frequencies, which is by design, in order to allow it to "punch" right through any splitter (often even ones rated less than 1GHz), and punch through the output port isolation in splitters. This is why PoE filters at the actual PoE (Point of Entry or "demarcation point") are so important, as MoCA can egress from one residence, and ingress into other residences. The filters are the only thing that can stop them from doing this. They also do it in a way that reflects-back the blocked/filtered MoCA frequencies, creating a better MoCA network. Using additional filters to keep the MoCA going only where it is needed to go to, can improve your MoCA network performance and reliability, which also helps prevent devices that weren't designed to deal with MoCA (lacking a built-in filter), from getting adversely affected by it. Older cable modems, even some "modern" Tuning Adapters (like Cisco), and anything else connected to the coax lacking a built-in filter, may not operate correctly if exposed to MoCA frequencies, and the high power they operate at.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 05-16-2014 at 09:17 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 09:16 PM   #272
filovirus
Registered User
 
filovirus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Pueblo, Colorado
Posts: 37
I am on Comcast and I am more confused than ever! My Tivo Plus creates the Moca network from ethernet. Does this mean I am running somewhere above 1Ghz and below what Comcast uses? Is there a rational reason to get one for the cable modem If the internet is ok?
__________________
Roamio Plus + Lifetime
Roamio Pro + Lifetime
Mini + Lifetime x 2
Premiere XL + Lifetime (Sold for Roamio Plus)
Premiere XL + Lifetime (Sold for Roamio Pro)

"Who is John Galt"
filovirus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 09:46 PM   #273
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by filovirus View Post
I am on Comcast and I am more confused than ever! My Tivo Plus creates the Moca network from ethernet. Does this mean I am running somewhere above 1Ghz and below what Comcast uses? Is there a rational reason to get one for the cable modem If the internet is ok?
I'm a bit confused by some of what you are asking.

If your cable modem hasn't started misbehaving, I wouldn't worry about it. Some still do add more filters (especially on non-MoCA cable modems), as a preventative measure, but nothing more. Some Tuning Adapters (like Cisco), require a filter on each TA, or they misbehave. Some who have MoCA problems, find that more filters keeping the MoCA more "contained" fixes their issues.

RF cable networks that use a full 1GHz spectrum are kind of rare, so far.

I already explained how MoCA can "punch" past splitters rated 1GHZ (and even lower-rated ones) even though it operates above 1GHz.

Your MoCA for your TiVo operates above 1GHz, using the consumer/retail band.

If Comcast, in your market, isn't a 1GHz network, (which is very likely the case), a PoE MoCA filter blocking below 1GHz really shouldn't be an issue.

I'd either need to know the complete specs of your PoE filter(s), or know the manufacturer/part number, to look up the full specs, in order to know that it's blocking and passing the right frequencies. As long as it is blocking through 2GHz (minimum), it should be doing the job you need it to do. Blocking higher (like up to 3GHz), is usually just overkill, which not a bad thing, if some other residence might be somehow egressing (leaking-out) something in such a high band. That's an unlikely scenario.

I just felt that the "either one should work" sort of advice, is not "one size fits all" advice, and wanted to state that, with a full explanation why.

Bottom line: If you have a PoE filter in-place at the Point of Entry, and all is working well, you can set aside any worries, or confusion, I added.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 01:12 PM   #274
TheBatman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2
Hi all - apologies, searched around and couldn't find this discussed anywhere. My question is: does MoCA require the internet to be connected?

I have cable internet (Comcast) but just OTA antenna TV. In my utility room the cable is hooked to the modem and wireless router. Then, in that room is the antenna drop that then is split into 3 lines feeding 3 rooms.

What I'd like to do is have the antenna coax system allow Tivo to talk to Tivo Minis.

E.g., antenna signal goes to my main room coax and plugs into a Roamio (as it does today). Then the other 2 drops have tivo minis on them. Set up a MoCA network so the Roamio can feed the other 2 drops with both live TV and tivo recordings. Cable modem and router would still be completely separate, not connected to the coax system.

Hope this all makes sense. Any idea if it will work?
TheBatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 02:41 PM   #275
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
Hi all - apologies, searched around and couldn't find this discussed anywhere. My question is: does MoCA require the internet to be connected?

I have cable internet (Comcast) but just OTA antenna TV. In my utility room the cable is hooked to the modem and wireless router. Then, in that room is the antenna drop that then is split into 3 lines feeding 3 rooms.

What I'd like to do is have the antenna coax system allow Tivo to talk to Tivo Minis.

E.g., antenna signal goes to my main room coax and plugs into a Roamio (as it does today). Then the other 2 drops have tivo minis on them. Set up a MoCA network so the Roamio can feed the other 2 drops with both live TV and tivo recordings. Cable modem and router would still be completely separate, not connected to the coax system.

Hope this all makes sense. Any idea if it will work?
The Minis will need to be able to reach the internet just like the DVR.

You would connect a moca adapter to somewhere on the OTA line in the utility room (safest way is either on its own leg or on the leg to the Roamio), and run ethernet from the adapter to the router.

(I'm assuming you'll keep the Roamio on ethernet and not connect it via the moca network as well. If you want to add the Roamio to the moca network too, the instructions are a little more specific.)

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 06-07-2014 at 03:16 PM.
BigJimOutlaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 09:23 PM   #276
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
The Minis will need to be able to reach the internet just like the DVR.

You would connect a moca adapter to somewhere on the OTA line in the utility room (safest way is either on its own leg or on the leg to the Roamio), and run ethernet from the adapter to the router.

(I'm assuming you'll keep the Roamio on ethernet and not connect it via the moca network as well. If you want to add the Roamio to the moca network too, the instructions are a little more specific.)
Pretty sure you cannot mix MoCA and OTA...

If somehow you can, you would definitely need a POE filter so that the MoCA doesn't go out of the antenna and create massive interference in whatever band it ends up in...
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 09:51 PM   #277
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
Pretty sure you cannot mix MoCA and OTA...

If somehow you can, you would definitely need a POE filter so that the MoCA doesn't go out of the antenna and create massive interference in whatever band it ends up in...
It's not often I wish to open another "can of worms", with you. But, this is an interesting subject matter....

I've seen MoCA adapters that are designed to not even work with cable TV frequencies, at all. As in, it's a point-to-point system, using coax for MoCA ONLY. So, the coax is just the cabling, nothing more, and nothing else is supposed to be passed through it...

I'm not 100% certain that such things are true "MoCA", as the standard was intended.

Then, there are legitimate people, buying legitimate devices, that support MoCA, but are not going to be using it on any part of a cableco RF network.

This is because they "cut the cord", or never had "the cord", and just want free OTA, and to use MoCA, rather than run additional Cat 5e/Cat 6 ethernet cable.

I guess the $64,000 question is: Can a consumer grade VHF/UHF antenna, designed to receive (only), become a transmitting antenna, if MoCA isn't filtered with a PoE filter?

Since MoCA is designed to power-through almost anything except a PoE filter, I wouldn't leave anything to chance.

MoCA should (theoretically) work over any RG-6 coax. Sometimes RG-59 will "suffice". What happens, once it gets to an OTA antenna, is beyond what I know.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 11:59 PM   #278
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
Pretty sure you cannot mix MoCA and OTA...

If somehow you can, you would definitely need a POE filter so that the MoCA doesn't go out of the antenna and create massive interference in whatever band it ends up in...
Why can't you mix MoCA and OTA. OTA is below 1GHz. The MoCA that the TiVo uses is 1150Mhz and higher. The MoCA frequencies should not interfere any more than they do with cable. Which is also below 1Ghz.

Maybe one day I can try it out if I ever switch my TiVos back to Ethernet. Then I could switch the Minis to using the coax cables running OTA to connect them to my network.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

Last edited by aaronwt : 06-08-2014 at 12:06 AM.
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 12:16 AM   #279
tarheelblue32
Registered User
 
tarheelblue32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Why can't you mix MoCA and OTA. OTA is below 1GHz. The MoCA that the TiVo uses is 1150Mhz and higher. The MoCA frequencies should not interfere any more than they do with cable. Which is also below 1Ghz.
Yeah I'm not understanding why MoCA wouldn't work just as well concurrently with OTA signals as it does with cable TV signals.
tarheelblue32 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 08:42 AM   #280
Aero 1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
Pretty sure you cannot mix MoCA and OTA...

If somehow you can, you would definitely need a POE filter so that the MoCA doesn't go out of the antenna and create massive interference in whatever band it ends up in...
I have moca with two fios routers and ota only and it works fine with no filter. There is no interference with any of my three (one lo-VHF, one hi-VHF, one UHF) joined antennas.
__________________
Lifetime Subs: 2 TiVo Premiere's | TiVo HD | TiVo Stream

OTA | Netflix | Hulu+ | Amazon Prime | MLB.tv -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aero 1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 10:15 AM   #281
eboydog
Just TiVo'ing.....
 
eboydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
Pretty sure you cannot mix MoCA and OTA...

If somehow you can, you would definitely need a POE filter so that the MoCA doesn't go out of the antenna and create massive interference in whatever band it ends up in...
Such is not the case as the Moca standards are throughly tested and certified including passing FCC licensing requirements. The only possible interference could be if two nearby homes both had Moca implented over their Ota antennas but even then, the dual antennas would have to be touching each other for any possible RF interference to occur. The type of power transmission over a copper medium is not the same as a radiating antenna source, for interference to occur, there would need to be some type of unlicensed rouge megawatt power booster as the interference would occur due to the highly magnified signal leaking into nearby frequencies other than what is assigned to Moca.

The FCC make very demanding certifications for anything used in the United States residential area, go to the Fcc website with the Fcc number of any Moca adapter including any Tivo dvr that has builtin Moca and you will find pages beyond pages of the products testing results were the certifying testing company puts the product though every documented configuration including other tests to certify that the power, modulation and frequency of a communication device will not interfere with other unintended devices.

Think of what happens when you pull the coax cable out of a Tivo, be cable, digital cable or OTA, usually the signal drops as soon as the center wire looses the smallest amount of contact and doesn't work at all with the cable laying next to the Tivo unattached as there is hardly none if any radiating RF signal, a direct copper conducting contact must be made to allow the signal to be processed regardless of the frequency.



If it makes you feel better you can install a filter if makes you feel good but unless your antenna coax runs outside your residence such as an apartment were someone unauthorized might be able to physically connection to and tap into it, there is no need for a poe filter with a Ota antenna setup while using Moca BUT the real issue would be why you connect to a MOCA adapter to an antenna unless you had some type of large external antenna servicing several receivers as typically it's a point to point connection from the antenna to the receiver.
__________________
TiVo Roamio Pro
TiVo Roamio Plus (3tb)
TiVo Mini (three)
TiVo Premiere

eboydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 02:16 PM   #282
TheBatman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2
Thanks all. Usually I think of myself as fairly tech savvy but not sure I follow all of this.

BigJim, I was indeed thinking of having the Roamio on the MoCA coax, not on ethernet. In other words, the antenna drop is split into 3 coax in the utility room. The Roamio is on the end of one split in the living room. Somehow via MoCA it can send programming to the other 2 splits (which service TVs in other rooms). I had assume the Minis could just be on the wifi for internet, just like the Roamio is. That's the idea anyway...
TheBatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 08:10 PM   #283
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
Thanks all. Usually I think of myself as fairly tech savvy but not sure I follow all of this.

BigJim, I was indeed thinking of having the Roamio on the MoCA coax, not on ethernet. In other words, the antenna drop is split into 3 coax in the utility room. The Roamio is on the end of one split in the living room. Somehow via MoCA it can send programming to the other 2 splits (which service TVs in other rooms). I had assume the Minis could just be on the wifi for internet, just like the Roamio is. That's the idea anyway...
Ah, Tivo doesn't "officially" support wireless for streaming to Minis, since it's not always reliable. You could try it, but it's very "you're mileage may vary".

If running ethernet to the Roamio is not possible or desireable, you could add the Roamio to the moca network with a second moca adapter.

1. Add a splitter to one of the legs going to a Mini. One leg goes to a Mini, the other to the moca adapter. Connect the moca adapter's ethernet to the router. (Ignore the RF-out on this adapter.)

2. Connect the second moca adapter behind the Roamio as shown below. All Tivo devices should then be able to connect to the moca network.



So basically this is your setup from a 3-way OTA drop:

- One leg goes to Mini.
- One leg goes to splitter. Mini on one leg, moca#1 on the other. (Connect adapter's ethernet to router. Ignore RF-out.)
- One leg goes to moca#2. Both ethernet and RF-out go to Roamio.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 06-08-2014 at 08:49 PM.
BigJimOutlaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 11:08 AM   #284
slowbiscuit
FUBAR
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 2,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post

It would just be irresponsible, and being a bad neighbor, not to use a PoE at the antenna input, for the same reasons PoE filters belong at the demarcation point of the cable lateral coming into a residence.
That's silly, wire-based transmission has nothing to do with MoCA OTA. Agree completely with eboydog, at these power levels you're not going to interfere with anyone OTA and you don't need a PoE filter for it. Not to mention that the freqs won't interfere with broadcast anyway even if there was some leakage OTA.
slowbiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 01:59 PM   #285
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
That's silly, wire-based transmission has nothing to do with MoCA OTA. Agree completely with eboydog, at these power levels you're not going to interfere with anyone OTA and you don't need a PoE filter for it. Not to mention that the freqs won't interfere with broadcast anyway even if there was some leakage OTA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
What happens, once it gets to an OTA antenna, is beyond what I know.
My own words on MoCA, with OTA in the equation.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 04:41 PM   #286
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
It's not often I wish to open another "can of worms", with you. But, this is an interesting subject matter....

I've seen MoCA adapters that are designed to not even work with cable TV frequencies, at all. As in, it's a point-to-point system, using coax for MoCA ONLY. So, the coax is just the cabling, nothing more, and nothing else is supposed to be passed through it...

I'm not 100% certain that such things are true "MoCA", as the standard was intended.

Then, there are legitimate people, buying legitimate devices, that support MoCA, but are not going to be using it on any part of a cableco RF network.

This is because they "cut the cord", or never had "the cord", and just want free OTA, and to use MoCA, rather than run additional Cat 5e/Cat 6 ethernet cable.

I guess the $64,000 question is: Can a consumer grade VHF/UHF antenna, designed to receive (only), become a transmitting antenna, if MoCA isn't filtered with a PoE filter?

Since MoCA is designed to power-through almost anything except a PoE filter, I wouldn't leave anything to chance.

MoCA should (theoretically) work over any RG-6 coax. Sometimes RG-59 will "suffice". What happens, once it gets to an OTA antenna, is beyond what I know.
What adapters run at frequencies that would interfere with cable, excluding DirecTV DECA? I know HPNA runs this way, but the only widespread use of that is AT&T U-Verse, which doesn't need the ability to run with cable, only with relatively low-frequency VDSL installs (for the times that they use the coax balun method, although I think most just use regular phones lines to get into the house).

I'm thinking anything big, unshielded, and metal can become a transmitting antenna... MoCA uses a LOT of power too, as it can blast through several levels of splitters...

I'm just imagining someone doing it, and the FCC van pulling up to cite the user for a violation...

AFAIK, MoCA was NOT designed to work with OTA, only cable or nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Why can't you mix MoCA and OTA. OTA is below 1GHz. The MoCA that the TiVo uses is 1150Mhz and higher. The MoCA frequencies should not interfere any more than they do with cable. Which is also below 1Ghz.

Maybe one day I can try it out if I ever switch my TiVos back to Ethernet. Then I could switch the Minis to using the coax cables running OTA to connect them to my network.
Read posts 276 and 277. That's irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eboydog View Post
Such is not the case as the Moca standards are throughly tested and certified including passing FCC licensing requirements.
But are they licensed for use with OTA gear? As I understand it, they are for cable only. Of course, they would have to forsee that someone would plug it into an OTA source...

And how would it not become a massive transmitting antenna? The power levels are far higher, the antenna larger, and the frequencies lower than Wifi...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
That's silly, wire-based transmission has nothing to do with MoCA OTA. Agree completely with eboydog, at these power levels you're not going to interfere with anyone OTA and you don't need a PoE filter for it. Not to mention that the freqs won't interfere with broadcast anyway even if there was some leakage OTA.
Yeah, but they're used for something, even though it's not broadcast.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 05:39 PM   #287
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
What adapters run at frequencies that would interfere with cable, excluding DirecTV DECA? I know HPNA runs this way, but the only widespread use of that is AT&T U-Verse, which doesn't need the ability to run with cable, only with relatively low-frequency VDSL installs (for the times that they use the coax balun method, although I think most just use regular phones lines to get into the house).

I'm thinking anything big, unshielded, and metal can become a transmitting antenna... MoCA uses a LOT of power too, as it can blast through several levels of splitters...

I'm just imagining someone doing it, and the FCC van pulling up to cite the user for a violation...

AFAIK, MoCA was NOT designed to work with OTA, only cable or nothing.

Read posts 276 and 277. That's irrelevant.

But are they licensed for use with OTA gear? As I understand it, they are for cable only. Of course, they would have to forsee that someone would plug it into an OTA source...

And how would it not become a massive transmitting antenna? The power levels are far higher, the antenna larger, and the frequencies lower than Wifi...

Yeah, but they're used for something, even though it's not broadcast.
MOTOROLA SBM1000 SURFboard MoCA SMART Video Coax Adapter 10/100 Base-T Ethernet (RJ-45)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825390003

While the advertising makes this sound like just another MoCA adapter set, it's meant for point-to-point, or star-topology, MoCA (ONLY) communication, without having the actual cable/satellite/OTA frequencies also present on the coax. It's a high-performance "ethernet to MoCA to ethernet w/4-port switch" MODEM/BRIDGE setup.

If you don't read all the specifics, some could mistake this for something that co-exists with frequencies already on the coax. These adapters need the coax all to themselves.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 06-10-2014 at 03:04 AM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 09:58 PM   #288
poppagene
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
What happens, once it gets to an OTA antenna, is beyond what I know.
True
poppagene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 11:19 PM   #289
HarperVision
Registered User
 
HarperVision's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,201
Only way to truly know is to hook it up and then measure it with a spectrum analyzer or something. Even if it shows a signal at some small amplitude, as long as it's below the noise floor (-40db down?) then there shouldn't be an issue I'd think.
__________________
Dave Harper
Director, Event Technology
ISF, CTS
HarperVision is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 07:34 AM   #290
slowbiscuit
FUBAR
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 2,587
Exactly, it's just going to be random noise at those power levels. People are way overthinking this for OTA.
slowbiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 05:26 PM   #291
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
MOTOROLA SBM1000 SURFboard MoCA SMART Video Coax Adapter 10/100 Base-T Ethernet (RJ-45)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825390003

While the advertising makes this sound like just another MoCA adapter set, it's meant for point-to-point, or star-topology, MoCA (ONLY) communication, without having the actual cable/satellite/OTA frequencies also present on the coax. It's a high-performance "ethernet to MoCA to ethernet w/4-port switch" MODEM/BRIDGE setup.

If you don't read all the specifics, some could mistake this for something that co-exists with frequencies already on the coax. These adapters need the coax all to themselves.
That supports MoCA band D which is compatible with cable, and MoCA band E, which is DirecTV's DECA. They do not support MoCA band C, which is FIOS WAN, although very few standalone adapters do.

They definitely do NOT need the cable to themselves. Quite to the contrary.

The whole point of MoCA is to co-exist with cable or DirecTV. I don't think most adapters can do band E, however, as they are made for cable, and DirecTV has their own equipment for DECA.

Those not only look like a good deal, but they would also survive a switch from cable/FIOS to DirecTV or visa versa, which most adapters would not.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 11:32 PM   #292
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
That supports MoCA band D which is compatible with cable, and MoCA band E, which is DirecTV's DECA. They do not support MoCA band C, which is FIOS WAN, although very few standalone adapters do.

They definitely do NOT need the cable to themselves. Quite to the contrary.

The whole point of MoCA is to co-exist with cable or DirecTV. I don't think most adapters can do band E, however, as they are made for cable, and DirecTV has their own equipment for DECA.

Those not only look like a good deal, but they would also survive a switch from cable/FIOS to DirecTV or visa versa, which most adapters would not.
In my own haste, I posted the wrong link (there was a different product, I had went to get the link for).

NewEgg did have a set of point-to-point MoCA adapters, very similar to these, which not only specified they were not to share the coax, but people bought them without reading those details, then gave bad reviews due to not researching what they were buying. Some did read the specifics, understood, loved the other one, and posted great reviews about it doing a great job, for MoCA-only transmission, over a long distance.

My guess is the product from over a month ago is no longer stocked, and may no longer be made. I seem to recall it being a discontinued and clearance item.

I get that MoCA is all about using the coax for more than just networking (and more than just cable/satellite). That's why I went back to grab a link. I just found the next-best thing.

As you say, it's a pretty good product (at face-value, going by the specs).

I'd love to hear from anybody that has (or obtains) the actual one I posted the link to. It sounds promising, versatile, and may be somewhat future-proof (if MoCA 2.0 is just a firmware update away).
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 03:37 PM   #293
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
In my own haste, I posted the wrong link (there was a different product, I had went to get the link for).

NewEgg did have a set of point-to-point MoCA adapters, very similar to these, which not only specified they were not to share the coax, but people bought them without reading those details, then gave bad reviews due to not researching what they were buying. Some did read the specifics, understood, loved the other one, and posted great reviews about it doing a great job, for MoCA-only transmission, over a long distance.

My guess is the product from over a month ago is no longer stocked, and may no longer be made. I seem to recall it being a discontinued and clearance item.

I get that MoCA is all about using the coax for more than just networking (and more than just cable/satellite). That's why I went back to grab a link. I just found the next-best thing.

As you say, it's a pretty good product (at face-value, going by the specs).

I'd love to hear from anybody that has (or obtains) the actual one I posted the link to. It sounds promising, versatile, and may be somewhat future-proof (if MoCA 2.0 is just a firmware update away).
Interesting. It sounds like they were using a lower frequency channel to get lower losses over a long distance, but that's still idiotic to make a product that can only work on frequencies that overlap with cable TV, and not have an option to work either way.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 03:54 PM   #294
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,884
It makes sense if the product is designed to work over coax without any other signals.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 03:45 PM   #295
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
It makes sense if the product is designed to work over coax without any other signals.
Except that it makes for a nightmare when people buy it thinking it will work the way MoCA was intended to work- i.e. coexist with cable.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2014, 11:08 AM   #296
fish62858
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
DSL, Roamio Basic and one Mini

please forgive my newbie ignorance, but after ten pages of this thread i am quite confused... i am not terribly tech savy and that is part of it...

i have a dsl modem/router, one roamio basic and one mini in another room
and a mohu leaf antenna for live tv...
currently both tivo devices are connected to the router by ethernet cables, but there is a long cat 5 run and it is drawing my wife's complaints...
i have tried to understand the moca business but most everything i've read talks about cable internet modems and i can't keep straight in my head how it differs from my ota situation...

i currently have the dsl router near the mini because the dsl into the house is on a jack in the bedroom where the mini is located, and the long cat5 run goes down the hall to the living room to the roamio basic...
i'd like to eliminate the long cat5 run and understand the moca can accomplish that but just can't visualize how it should be done...

i appreciate your patience and suggestions...

Last edited by fish62858 : 06-14-2014 at 12:34 PM.
fish62858 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2014, 05:44 PM   #297
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish62858 View Post
please forgive my newbie ignorance, but after ten pages of this thread i am quite confused... i am not terribly tech savy and that is part of it...

i have a dsl modem/router, one roamio basic and one mini in another room
and a mohu leaf antenna for live tv...
currently both tivo devices are connected to the router by ethernet cables, but there is a long cat 5 run and it is drawing my wife's complaints...
i have tried to understand the moca business but most everything i've read talks about cable internet modems and i can't keep straight in my head how it differs from my ota situation...

i currently have the dsl router near the mini because the dsl into the house is on a jack in the bedroom where the mini is located, and the long cat5 run goes down the hall to the living room to the roamio basic...
i'd like to eliminate the long cat5 run and understand the moca can accomplish that but just can't visualize how it should be done...

i appreciate your patience and suggestions...
Read back in this thread about the debate about MoCA working with OTA. The answer is, yes, it will work with OTA. I'd personally put a POE filter on the main line in from the antenna, but apparently it's not really needed.

So a pair of MoCA adapters will do what you want, and at that point, it doesn't really matter if you connect the Mini to MoCA or Ethernet, as it will go through MoCA from the Roamio one way or another...
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2014, 07:01 PM   #298
fish62858
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
thanks for the response Bigg... i'll go back through all these pages again later...

if the mini is moca compatible, why do i need two moca adapters?
i'm thinking i don't really understand the connections...
where in this scenario am i going wrong?

1- moca adapter at the dsl router with ethernet cable connecting router to adapter? and ethernet cable connecting roamio to router?
2- coax from the wall jack to the adapter?
3- coax from the antenna into the roamio?

4- in other room, coax from wall jack connects to the mini?

5- then tell the units the use the moca?

help! :-(
fish62858 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2014, 09:49 PM   #299
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish62858 View Post
thanks for the response Bigg... i'll go back through all these pages again later...

if the mini is moca compatible, why do i need two moca adapters?
i'm thinking i don't really understand the connections...
where in this scenario am i going wrong?

1- moca adapter at the dsl router with ethernet cable connecting router to adapter? and ethernet cable connecting roamio to router?
2- coax from the wall jack to the adapter?
3- coax from the antenna into the roamio?

4- in other room, coax from wall jack connects to the mini?

5- then tell the units the use the moca?

help! :-(
You said your DSL modem is by the Mini, not the Roamio. The Mini can NOT bridge between MoCA and Ethernet, so you need to use an adapter to do that. You'd only need one if you could locate your DSL router with your Roamio, or swap the Roamio with the Mini, since then the Mini would just use MoCA.

If you connect the Mini via Ethernet, you would NOT connect it via MoCA. If you connect it via MoCA, you would NOT connect it via Ethernet.

And in that, you forgot the MoCA adapter with the Roamio.

I was going to say that you need to make sure that all your coax is tied together, but since you're using a small indoor antenna, you can actually keep the MoCA totally separate from the OTA line, just by tying the line that goes from the Roamio location to the Mini location directly together in the basement/attic, and then using that only for MoCA with no cable or OTA.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2014, 09:51 PM   #300
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Or you could just get your drill out and do hardwired CAT-6. I've done that with 5e a few times at my parents' place, not for TiVo, but for computers...
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |