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Old 05-29-2014, 11:47 PM   #31
LordKronos
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Originally Posted by robojerk View Post
You should watch Frontline's "United States of Secrets". it was pretty good at telling the story of why Snowden did things the way he did.
I haven't watched the interview discussed in this thread (since I just found out about it 5 minutes ago when I opened this forum), but I did watch the Frontline story you mention (both episoides) and I thought it was incredibly well done (as usual for Frontline). I highly recommend everyone watch it.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:53 PM   #32
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If you are waiting for the NSA to be honest, don't hold your breath. Time and again, NSA officials went before CONGRESS and testified that they were not doing certain things, only to later be proven that they were doing those exact things.
Yeah. You expect that the NSA searched for Snowden's email (like they hadn't done that a year ago) and with the layers of classification and rules thereof, besides the story they want to tell, would turn over every email Snowden sent?

That's not the only email Snowden sent. It's the only email the NSA will release.
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:37 AM   #33
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Yeah. You expect that the NSA searched for Snowden's email (like they haven't done that months ago) and with the layers of classification and rules thereof, besides the story they want to tell, would turns over every email Snowden sent?

That's not the only email Snowden sent. It's the only email the NSA will release.
The counter to this argument is to question why Snowden does not have copies of these e-mails.

I'm firmly on Snowden's side here, but fair is fair. If the NSA is hiding them, was he stupid enough to steal all this info but not keep documentation that he tried to do it the right way?
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:05 AM   #34
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The counter to this argument is to question why Snowden does not have copies of these e-mails.

I'm firmly on Snowden's side here, but fair is fair. If the NSA is hiding them, was he stupid enough to steal all this info but not keep documentation that he tried to do it the right way?
He most likely has that in the stuff that he gave to the journalists. He says he has nothing with him and no way to get access to it.
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:09 AM   #35
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He most likely has that in the stuff that he gave to the journalists. He says he nothing with him and no way to get access to it.
I hope so. In that case, those e-mails will come out eventually.

Here's the thing: I'm thinking that there are no e-mails. Because had he raised the issue through the proper channels, he would not have been protected. He would have been persecuted. His security clearance would have been revoked, he would not have been able to expose them, and he would have been rendered "unemployable".

But it would be great if the e-mails exist...
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by MikeAndrews View Post
Yeah. You expect that the NSA searched for Snowden's email (like they haven't done that months ago) and with the layers of classification and rules thereof, besides the story they want to tell, would turns over every email Snowden sent?

That's not the only email Snowden sent. It's the only email the NSA will release.
There's no possible way you know that's not the only email he sent.

That email released yesterday is very curious, since the answer to his question is something publicly available on the NSA website for at least the last 5 years.

If he can't produce his emails, or whomever he gave his files to can't,. then there's no way you should believe him.

You're telling me that 99.9% of the people in a situation where a chain of emails could possibly be the difference between being granted whistleblower status, or being deemed a traitor wouldn't have saved them in a bunch of different places?

A lawyer? His family? Safe deposit box? Nowhere?

The fact that yesterday's answer was that the NSA had more emails, not a copy of every email that he tucked away in the 5 places every other human being on the planet would have is telling to me.

Maybe I'm wrong, and they're waiting for whatever reason, but it's extremely weird.

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Old 05-30-2014, 03:22 PM   #37
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I believe that Snowden had no reason to even mention the emails, if they didn't exist.

What has hit me lately, when dealing with a government anything, "How do we know that?" "You know that because I just informed you."
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:24 PM   #38
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I believe that Snowden had no reason to even mention the emails, if they didn't exist.
Exactly, he could easily claim that he spoke to his superiors and they shut him down, without ever doing it via email.

The more I find out about Snowden and the NSA, the more I believe Snowden and the less the NSA. That Frontline show (or shows) were truly scary.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:24 PM   #39
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I found Snowden very believable. He came across as someone motivated to do good. Not as a traitor.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:33 PM   #40
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I just wish he had somehow run everything past a sympathetic senator or something before making it public.
Also, in regard to this sort of mindset:

As I recall from the frontline documentary, one of the guys involved in one of the illegal programs did go to someone in congress (someone on the intelligence oversight committee). When that representative tried to pursue the matter, she was met with mostly silence, mixed with a few "requests" to stop looking into the matter. The investigations she did manage to get started went nowhere. For the report that was generated, the NSA managed to get it classified, and nearly the entire thing was withheld. When someone eventually did leak details to the press, the representative (now retired) had her house raided by the FBI (multiple times), dragged before congress, and was under investigation for years.

Also, if I'm not getting my people mixed up, I believe the person that did go to her was also a suspect in the above mentioned leak. His home was also raided (along with 4 other guys who retired because they didn't want to be associated with the illegal program). The FBI took his computer and then said that he was screwed (something like a 30+ year sentence) because they found classified documents on his computer. He spent his entire retirement fund on his legal defense, then when he ran out of money had to take a public defender. When the specific "classified" documents that he supposedly had on his computer were revealed, his lawyer was eventually able to find those documents online. They were previously unclassified, and were changed to classified after the fact in order to manufacture the evidence against him. After this came to light, the Feds just quietly dropped their case against him.

That's what happens when you try to do things the "right" way.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:38 PM   #41
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Given the NSA has been shown to blatantly lie even while under oath in front of congress, I am not sure I would believe them if they said water is wet.
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Old 05-30-2014, 05:20 PM   #42
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Given the NSA has been shown to blatantly lie even while under oath in front of congress, I am not sure I would believe them if they said water is wet.
Quote:
Yesterday, the NSA released an email from Edward Snowden to his superiors asking about the legality of NSA spying, claiming it was the only evidence they had that he ever tried to go through channels before turning leaker; on its face, this is pretty damning. But there's one problem: six months ago, the NSA claimed that they had no emails of the sort from Snowden, and then this one happened to turn up just in time to counter Snowden's allegations on US TV that he'd tried to blow the whistle from inside
http://boingboing.net/2014/05/30/nsa...mails-fro.html
That is an inoperative statement.
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