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Old 05-24-2014, 05:53 PM   #1
abovethesink
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Major Roamio Basic Issues (Dying box?)

I do not know what is going on with my Roamio. When I came home from work and attempted to delete a couple recordings a wishlist picked up, I noticed that the shows were not deleting in the normal fashion. The got the X next to their titles and just continued to sit there.

This didn't seem like any real issue until I attempted to play a recording and the screen went black. I waited several minutes and nothing happened. My wife then walked in and noted that it did this twice today and she had to pull the plug to bring it back. I did that and all was working well. I sacrificed a program to test my ability to delete and I could. We then sat down to watch an episode of The Americans and did.

Upon finishing the show, my wife noticed some scenes from a movie in the spoiler window and was intrigued. I attempted to go in the show's info to find a future airing to record it, but the option was missing. Next I went into the guide and manually found a future airing set for tomorrow, but it wouldn't react to my trying to record it. I also could not bring up any info and everything above the raw guide data (where there is normally program info, I think) was just blue and blank. From here I tried to play a recording and it went black. I left it for ten minutes before rebooting.

So to recap, at some point early into my Roamio's on cycle I lose the ability to do anything but look at the guide, to delete shows, or to play back a recording. There may be more limitations that I haven't found yet. It may be playing a recording that triggers the failures after, or it could be time. I am not sure yet.

What should I do here?
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:08 PM   #2
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I had similar behavior (unable to delete & corrupt program info) with either a dieing hard drive or corrupted database on my series 3. You could first try a clear & delete everything to see if that fixes the issue. The second choice is either requesting a replacement unit or swapping hard drives. Be aware the latter does void your warranty.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:16 PM   #3
nooneuknow
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I had the same issue just a few days ago with one out of three base Roamios.

It was data/database corruption, not a bad hard drive or TiVo failure. I feared it was a failure of a LTS Roamio, since the hard drive tested perfectly on a PC.

It took two rounds of KS57&58, Clear Program Information & To Do List (from reboot menu), and another KS57&58 (two of all of these steps).

I also had to delete all ARWLs and all programs recorded via ARWLs, which may have made only one round of all the above necessary, if I'd done that first. Disconnecting the cable/antenna coax until everything is done will help make things go faster.

Make sure to delete everything from recently deleted that you can (use KMTTG for the fastest way to attempt this). Even KMTTG couldn't get everything, on the first few tries. If you don't clear them out, they ALL get resurrected into your list, and you'll have to re-delete, then re-permanently delete them.

There's multiple threads on this, across multiple platforms. The first I spotted was a TiVo HD, and I shared my Roamio trials and tribulations in that thread.

I went through a hell of a lot more. This is the concise version. I was just happy to spot anything that might point to yet another TiVo Service connection sending bad data, and making my TiVo simply act like it was about to be an expensive paperweight. This seems to be the case, and I'm sure more are to be reported.

It all started with reboots happening around the times of scheduled TiVo Service connections.

Other thread I mentioned is here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=517733
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:02 PM   #4
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Man, with all of the Roamio issues going on since their (relatively) short availability, Tivo seems to have turned out a very shoddy piece of equipment here and needs desperately to fix a whole lot of problems that are happening out there. I am SERIOUSLY disappointed with the HDMI handshake/connectivity issue with Sony and Samsung TV's. All they are saying is that the problem has been given to R&D. So much for buying American.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
It all started with reboots happening around the times of scheduled TiVo Service connections.

Other thread I mentioned is here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=517733
Yep, one bad reboot at the wrong time, and poof, your in for one heck of a ride. Its always been that way with reboots, which made the recent (frequent) reboots during service connections all that much more troublesome.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:26 PM   #6
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Since the Roamio will prepare a blank HD for you can't you pull the corrupted drive, erase it, then put it back into the Roamio and have the Roamio set it up again? (assuming, of course it's a data issue on the drive and not a drive going bad.)
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:34 PM   #7
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Since the Roamio will prepare a blank HD for you can't you pull the corrupted drive, erase it, then put it back into the Roamio and have the Roamio set it up again? (assuming, of course it's a data issue on the drive and not a drive going bad.)
Yes, if you are willing to lose anything up to 3TB worth of recordings. I only have about 1TB each, and don't want to lose it. With only 100Mbit ethernet on base-Roamios, it can take a long time to sort-through and transfer-off recordings that would cost me hundreds of dollars to rent or buy (things that don't repeat or show up on Hulu Plus or Netflix).

I also have collections of repeats I've been saving up, and will repeat again, but still don't want to lose a year's worth of...
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:39 PM   #8
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Yep, one bad reboot at the wrong time, and poof, your in for one heck of a ride. Its always been that way with reboots, which made the recent (frequent) reboots during service connections all that much more troublesome.
I have all of mine on battery backup. I was essentially stating that the reboots would happen while the unit would be processing what it had downloaded from the scheduled TiVo Service connection, and that would seem to be what was causing the reboots (although I didn't spell it out that precisely, until now).

No issues (so far), since my first post in the other thread detailing what I did. If all three were affected, like the last time you speak of, I'd be stark-raving-mad.
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 05-24-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:47 PM   #9
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Man, with all of the Roamio issues going on since their (relatively) short availability, Tivo seems to have turned out a very shoddy piece of equipment here and needs desperately to fix a whole lot of problems that are happening out there. I am SERIOUSLY disappointed with the HDMI handshake/connectivity issue with Sony and Samsung TV's. All they are saying is that the problem has been given to R&D. So much for buying American.
Don't forget, I (seem to) have the same problems with the HDMI that you do. Same TV brands as well as us both having base-Roamios. I'm on log-monitoring, which requires me hitting 777-clear for AV issues and 911-clear for reboots, and all I'm getting out of it (so far) is worn out remote buttons.

The consensus on TCF seems to be that we should buy a HDMI splitter, to kludge-fix the problem, rather than anybody backing us up and saying TiVo needs to fix their compatibility issues, which is only happening with the Roamios, and no other HDMI device I can throw at any of my TVs.
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:04 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ciscokid View Post
Man, with all of the Roamio issues going on since their (relatively) short availability, Tivo seems to have turned out a very shoddy piece of equipment here and needs desperately to fix a whole lot of problems that are happening out there. I am SERIOUSLY disappointed with the HDMI handshake/connectivity issue with Sony and Samsung TV's. All they are saying is that the problem has been given to R&D. So much for buying American.
I'm not saying you guys don't have problems, but all in all the Roamio's have been quite stable and solid for most folks, on a weekly basis you heard far more complaints about other models when they're new. Many of us have had far fewer Roamio issues than on other previous models, FWIW I've had all 3 flavors in the house and currently have a Plus and Pro, none have ever exhibited any issues.

They're not the giant heaping POS that some folks seem to be proclaiming.
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:28 PM   #11
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[rant] I've had my fill of people who do nothing but declare "I don't have this/that problem", without adding anything of any help to those who do. It's so "Thank You, Captain Obvious"... Do those without certain problems really need to point out that they don't, or that the majority of owners don't?

I know it's not going to stop people from saying it. It's a free country, and the forum is full of TiVo enthusiasts (and some hardcore "fanboys").

I'm just sick of being marginalized, or being some minority. I even feel for the people that have problems that I don't, when I see them getting the same type of "I don't have this/that problem" responses, and nothing more to add that might actually help. When one of three of mine is afflicted by something, I make sure to state it's one out of three. If all are afflicted I specify so.

If I see this trend get any worse, I'll pick some deity to pray to, and start praying that such people actually get afflicted with the issues they don't have, and are so quick to proclaim they aren't, just to see them eat crow.

The reason I'm not quoting a specific party with this post is due to the way that this "I don't have that problem", and nothing to help, posts have become so pervasive, throughout the whole d@mn forum, coming from a great many people (although I do see some serial offenders). I'm just fed up with it, and chose this post, right now, to finally speak my mind, rather than always biting my tongue. [/rant]
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 05-24-2014 at 10:37 PM. Reason: context
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:41 PM   #12
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Don't forget, I (seem to) have the same problems with the HDMI that you do. Same TV brands as well as us both having base-Roamios. I'm on log-monitoring, which requires me hitting 777-clear for AV issues and 911-clear for reboots, and all I'm getting out of it (so far) is worn out remote buttons.

The consensus on TCF seems to be that we should buy a HDMI splitter, to kludge-fix the problem, rather than anybody backing us up and saying TiVo needs to fix their compatibility issues, which is only happening with the Roamios, and no other HDMI device I can throw at any of my TVs.
I already have a cheapo HDMI splitter connected to my Samsung TV. I believe that it has a couple of empty ports on it. I use it to connect a PC and a Roku to the TV.

Are you saying I can connect the Roamio to the splitter and the HDMI connectivity issue will go away?

How did I miss that?
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:46 PM   #13
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I'm not saying you guys don't have problems, but all in all the Roamio's have been quite stable and solid for most folks, on a weekly basis you heard far more complaints about other models when they're new. Many of us have had far fewer Roamio issues than on other previous models, FWIW I've had all 3 flavors in the house and currently have a Plus and Pro, none have ever exhibited any issues.

They're not the giant heaping POS that some folks seem to be proclaiming.
If they work, of course not. If they don't work then they certainly ARE.

It's kinda like the GM recalls. If you have one and got in a crash, they are a POS.

If you haven't had an accident in one yet, they are a great car, huh?

At least GM has publicly admitted their issue. Not yet so evidently with Tivo. (At least not publicly yet!)
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:05 PM   #14
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I already have a cheapo HDMI splitter connected to my Samsung TV. I believe that it has a couple of empty ports on it. I use it to connect a PC and a Roku to the TV.

Are you saying I can connect the Roamio to the splitter and the HDMI connectivity issue will go away?

How did I miss that?
You are talking about a switch (multiple devices in, one port out).

The current thing being heavily recommended is a splitter (one device in, two or more ports out).

I have multiple switches, and they don't help me (they make it worse). I still haven't bought any splitters, because I have zero need to split my signal, and I have three Roamios. The premise is that since splitters have a harder task to do than a switch, they do something that auto-corrects the HDMI-HDCP handshakes better.

This is the wrong thread for this conversation. But, I did kind of contribute to going off-topic.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:08 PM   #15
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I have all of mine on battery backup. I was essentially stating that the reboots would happen while the unit would be processing what it had downloaded from the scheduled TiVo Service connection, and that would seem to be what was causing the reboots (although I didn't spell it out that precisely, until now).

No issues (so far), since my first post in the other thread detailing what I did. If all three were affected, like the last time you speak of, I'd be stark-raving-mad.
Yes, these are the random (not so random) reboots that I was talking about - which started back in February. Honestly, I still think they're still occurring, just less frequent. I was up for 25 days and recently has 3 reboots over the past week. It's not the up roar like last time, so right now I'm assuming it's just me.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:20 PM   #16
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Yes, these are the random (not so random) reboots that I was talking about - which started back in February. Honestly, I still think they're still occurring, just less frequent. I was up for 25 days and recently has 3 reboots over the past week. It's not the up roar like last time, so right now I'm assuming it's just me.
No, it's a few people, that we know of, just like last time (in the beginning).

I spotted a sudden spike in people asking what drive to buy to replace their failing ones. When I started directing people to one thread, a pattern emerged.

Since that original issue afflicted both Roamios and Premieres, it made it fairly easy to see a pattern in some ways, and harder in other ways.

If we see another spike in people looking for hard drive replacements, it may be time to try and make absolutely sure everybody looking for drives and/or images actually needs them. This time, it seems even at least one TiVo HD user was corrupted by the TiVo Service.

If you look at the DVRBARS thread, there was a fairly recent spike in demand for a particular model TiVo Premiere image, and I had questioned why that might be. It's kind of scary to think that the TiVo Service can creates runs in the image, hard drive, power supply, and even mainboard repair threads...

I don't appreciate all the work (mostly time) it takes me to fix bad data being sent to my TiVos, and the losses I have to incur, when I have to delete recordings that the corruption had links into.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:09 AM   #17
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I spoke too soon. Yet another reboot during processing after a TiVo Service connection on the same base-Roamio.

Looks like all I can do is a full Clear & Delete Everything, or just slap a blank drive in (even though there's nothing wrong with the one in it).

EDIT/ADD: Now it's just rebooting every ~10-15 minutes. I've learned how to identify database corruption, and there is no doubt in my mind, at all, that this is the case! Good thing I bought an extra TiVo and paid for the service, just to try and not lose everything when BS like this happens!
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 05-25-2014 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 05-25-2014, 05:56 AM   #18
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This thread over at the TiVo forums is interesting.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/for...ostID=11159450

I don't know if the solution would help in this case, but repeated errors processing the guide data (even on a replacement box) seems to be a common point. If you decide to try it, be sure to write down your existing MAK to use on any files transferred to your computer before the account change.
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:38 AM   #19
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[rant] I've had my fill of people who do nothing but declare "I don't have this/that problem", without adding anything of any help to those who do. It's so "Thank You, Captain Obvious"... Do those without certain problems really need to point out that they don't, or that the majority of owners don't?[/rant]
[rant] and I'm also equally tired of people on multiple forums that insist that since they have a problem it's rampant and that not only all of the units are crap, but that they're all defective and there needs to be a class-action lawsuit[/rant]

Granted folks aren't hitting that low point here, but there's an equal amount of frustration on BOTH sides of this discussion, I'm very careful to never tell people they aren't having an issue, or that it's not a "real" issue, just that everyone doesn't have it.

There have been surprisingly few threads here about Roamio failures if one were to take it that they're all crap and doomed to die.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:18 AM   #20
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The units themselves aren't crap. The updates they are putting out are significantly UNDER-tested. Something HAS happened at Tivo. They never put out stuff with this unusually low quality and if they did they fixed it promptly. Romios have not been out that long and given this duration, they proportionally have a significant amount of more and more serious problems that either of their two predecessors. As those that DO have problems will readily agree Tivo IS aware of these problems but those with these issues are becoming frustrated with the inability of Tivo to make the needed corrections.

Those that do not have the problems don't see the problems others are having because there is no need for them to.

Unless you DO have issues, then empty comments about you NOT having any issues is NOT relevant, not welcome by those who do, NOT really palatable to those that DO, and more important contribute ZIP to the discussion.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:22 AM   #21
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[rant] I've had my fill of people who do nothing but declare "I don't have this/that problem", without adding anything of any help to those who do. It's so "Thank You, Captain Obvious"... Do those without certain problems really need to point out that they don't, or that the majority of owners don't?

I know it's not going to stop people from saying it. It's a free country, and the forum is full of TiVo enthusiasts (and some hardcore "fanboys").

I'm just sick of being marginalized, or being some minority. I even feel for the people that have problems that I don't, when I see them getting the same type of "I don't have this/that problem" responses, and nothing more to add that might actually help. When one of three of mine is afflicted by something, I make sure to state it's one out of three. If all are afflicted I specify so.

If I see this trend get any worse, I'll pick some deity to pray to, and start praying that such people actually get afflicted with the issues they don't have, and are so quick to proclaim they aren't, just to see them eat crow.

The reason I'm not quoting a specific party with this post is due to the way that this "I don't have that problem", and nothing to help, posts have become so pervasive, throughout the whole d@mn forum, coming from a great many people (although I do see some serial offenders). I'm just fed up with it, and chose this post, right now, to finally speak my mind, rather than always biting my tongue. [/rant]
As is very often the case, I feel you are over-reacting and way off base.

Almost every "I don't have that problem" post that I have seen, has been helpful. I agree that if someone comes in and says "I have a hardware problem, what do I do", and gets a "I don't have that problem" response, then that response is not helpful. But I see that very rarely.

Except for around update times, everybody is running identical software on supposedly identical hardware. That means when person A comes in with a problem, and Person B does not have that problem on equivalent hardware, then we know that Person A either:
1. Has a hardware problem with their TiVo
or
2. Has something in their environment that is unexpected to their TiVo that is triggering their problem.

That's it. That means that if it isn't person A's TiVo hardware, they may be able to work-around the problem by trying to find out what's triggering it in their environment. That is valuable NEW information - person A may not have to wait for TiVo to fix the problem. If person B could have replicated the problem, then waiting for a TiVo update may be the only thing to do.

As I would have thought you would know, an important early step in debugging any problem is isolating it. Finding out a problem is not a general problem with the software affecting everybody, but is being triggered by something in the environment is, to my mind, an essential part of figuring out how (and if) it can be worked around.

Could Person B do more (like enumerate all possible environmental effects to look at)? Sure. But I think you would agree that almost every response could be more complete; I know mine could.

The Person B's of the forum are helping, and you are the one saying that they shouldn't; not just that they must do more, but they shouldn't even help at all. They can only help if they help in the ways that YOU think they should. I strongly disagree.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:27 AM   #22
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OK dudes and dudettes.

Anyone out there using a Base Roamio with a Sony or a Samsung TV please comment, either that you are, or are not having HDMI connectivity issues.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:44 AM   #23
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OK dudes and dudettes.

Anyone out there using a Base Roamio with a Sony or a Samsung TV please comment, either that you are, or are not having HDMI connectivity issues.
I have a Roamio basic upgraded to 2TB connected to a Samsung TV, however there is a Denon AV receiver in the middle. I don't know to what extent the HDMI signaling is modified by the receiver, but it does work well as is. I'm not having HDMI issues at all.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:48 AM   #24
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Being that there appears to be a fairly large number of problem free Roamios, could there possibly be some common thread with those experiencing failures? Could it be as simple as the a HDMI induced reboot coming at the worst possible time and causing some of the other issues? For what it's worth I am using HDMI to a Vizio TV and have never seen the reboot issue. I know if I was having the issue the first thing I would try is the HDMI splitter solution some are recommending to see if it fixes the problem. Then there is always the TiVo account recreation possible solution (referenced in above posts) but that seemed to be limited to C501 errors.
I had a few minor hiccups in the beginning but since the last update things have been rock solid. My only current issue is an occasional Ipad freeze while streaming. Just sayin, I don't think all Roamios are a POS and maybe we can all help narrowing down the causes of the issues some are having.

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Old 05-25-2014, 09:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ciscokid View Post
The units themselves aren't crap. The updates they are putting out are significantly UNDER-tested. Something HAS happened at Tivo. They never put out stuff with this unusually low quality and if they did they fixed it promptly. Romios have not been out that long and given this duration, they proportionally have a significant amount of more and more serious problems that either of their two predecessors. As those that DO have problems will readily agree Tivo IS aware of these problems but those with these issues are becoming frustrated with the inability of Tivo to make the needed corrections.
I'll disagree with you. Both the original Series 3 and the Premiere had equal or worse problems than the Roamio, as Dianebrat implied. I agree that the TiVoHD was more solid, but the Premiere had long continuing problems for some folks. And the fixes for Roamio have come fast and furious compared to any other release that they have ever had. There is no time in TiVo's history that they fixed problems more promptly (and that caused them additional small problems, because things like the overlapping recordings on one tuner issue were caused by TiVo having too many releases too quickly.)

Could the pre-release testing be better? Absolutely. But would it be worth it? That's a business decision, and I don't disagree with TiVo there because I don't have enough info. They would need to increase their testing by probably a factor of 10 to catch a lot of the errors, and the main, IMO, problems with the Roamio would have still remained because they needed cable card and tuning adapters modifications that would be impossible to get before the holiday season.

It's immensely harder to catch all errors now than it used to be. Back in the pre-HD era, the main thing that mattered was a good signal from the cable company. Now TiVo has to worry about faulty HDMI implementations, cablecard hardware, cablecard software, head-end hardware and software (eg VOD), apps from a dozen different sources not under TiVo's control, user networks that need to be much more solid than they used to be, TiVos are interacting with their environment much more than they used to, and TiVo has not done a good job at discovering all the ways that that environment can go wrong.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:05 AM   #26
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Answering about Sony/Samsung TVs...I have a base Roamio connected via an hdmi splitter to a 5 year old Sony Bravia. I really haven't had the Roamio connected to the Sony directly for more than an hour in the past three months, but using the splitter, I haven't had any noticeable handshake issues other than sporadic "unsupported audio signal" messages from the Sony that flash for a second and disappear.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
I'll disagree with you. Both the original Series 3 and the Premiere had equal or worse problems than the Roamio, as Dianebrat implied............(delete). And the fixes for Roamio have come fast and furious compared to any other release that they have ever had. There is no time in TiVo's history that they fixed problems more promptly.............delete

It's immensely harder to catch all errors now than it used to be. Back in the pre-HD era, the main thing that mattered was a good signal from the cable company.............delete.
You've quoted a lot of personal opinions here and nothing here has been statistically verified and hence appears to be, as I said, personal opinions and innuendo!

Roamios have more issues than their predecessors...............my opinion!
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:33 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ciscokid View Post
You've quoted a lot of personal opinions here and nothing here has been statistically verified and hence appears to be, as I said, personal opinions and innuendo!

Roamios have more issues than their predecessors...............my opinion!
Yes, there are certainly opinions mixed in. Others will have to judge which opinion is more likely to be correct.

Frequency of updates is factual. I'm willing to put money that there have been more frequent updates since Roamio than after any of the predecessors. Are you willing to bet against me?
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:38 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
Yes, there are certainly opinions mixed in. Others will have to judge which opinion is more likely to be correct.

Frequency of updates is factual. I'm willing to put money that there have been more frequent updates since Roamio than after any of the predecessors. Are you willing to bet against me?
OK............$10 million in Swiss Francs. You can deposit them into Banco Swisse Acct #8577fjfllsdKKJU77sdttGFG6.

I will hold the money until you can prove yourself right to me.

I will put your $10 million into my Paypal Acct. If you are right I will send it off to you.

OK?
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:20 PM   #30
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OK............$10 million in Swiss Francs. You can deposit them into Banco Swisse Acct #8577fjfllsdKKJU77sdttGFG6.

I will hold the money until you can prove yourself right to me.

I will put your $10 million into my Paypal Acct. If you are right I will send it off to you.

OK?
I'm wiling to send $40 cash to any mutually agreeable well-known forum member who is willing to make some mailing address available to the two of us. Are you?
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