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View Poll Results: Would you buy an external OTA tuner?
Yes 66 40.74%
Maybe, depends on price 41 25.31%
No, I don't need it 55 33.95%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-05-2014, 06:51 PM   #31
nooneuknow
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Back On-Topic:

It's fun to watch how the numbers of votes keeps increasing, but the percentages stay within ~2%.

I think that says quite a lot, especially when you look at the combined Yes/Maybe percentages.

Maybe after this poll starts stagnating, the next poll could break things down to those with 6-tuner boxes that want to add OTA and those with 4-tuner boxes that want to have concurrent cable & OTA together, as opposed to only having one, or the other. Then, maybe there's a way to present the option to the "No" crowd, to include making them think about things like "If their situation were to change, and they would need the additional OTA tuner, would they buy one?". It's easy to say you don't need one, when you assume your situations can't change, or won't change.

Once that is all covered, I guess the next burning question would be sussing-out the dollar figure. That would likely be difficult to ask, without knowing how many tuners it would add, and if it would allow a mix/match of cable and OTA.

While fun and interesting, I can't help but feel if TiVo can't even make the single-tuner overlapping work (aside from how long it took for them to try rolling it, in the first place), after so many years of being in the same business and making mostly the same products, that the programming "talent" at TiVo just isn't up to making this work, if one were to assume an external add-on tuner would be able to work without changing the hardware within what already exists.

Before anybody jumps me for allegedly "insulting the talent at TiVo", know that I'm echoing something a great many have stated, when I've posted about both hardware and software capabilities I'd have liked to see added. It's pretty much the reason why I stopped making suggestions, like this poll addresses.

I'm also aware of the crowd that wants no more new hardware or software features, until TiVo fixes existing issues.

I wonder what percentage on "NO" voters were really saying "No, fix what you have already shipped first"....

I also wouldn't be surprised if this Poll, being directed at Plus/Pro owners, is getting votes from Base-model owners, who once they see the poll, forget who it was made for. Like I posted before, I only bought base-models due to a need to have OTA as a fallback option. I voted YES, while technically not part of those who were invited to vote...

Last edited by nooneuknow : 04-07-2014 at 06:08 AM. Reason: typo/grammar
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:00 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
[b][u]If you had PM'd me, and were decent in your approach, I may have come back and pulled that last comment, before it wound up quoted (which was your doing). Too late now. If I spent any more time than I already do, reviewing and re-reviewing my posts, it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to bother contributing anything to the forum.
So in other words, you're not willing to spend the time correcting your own posts, but you expect other folks to PM you in order to correct your posts????

I would think the amount of time you spend explaining and correcting yourself in long posts like this would convince you that it's worth doing some more self-review on your controversial posts (the majority of your posts are good, factual, and informative, but threads like this where you tend to overstate things are obvious even to you, I would think.)
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:33 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by abovethesink View Post
I am curious. Having always lived in rural areas, I only have ever had CBS, ABC, and PBS over the air. Where I am currently at it is PBS only. How many channels OTA do some get if six tuners could ever be needed? Isn't only the historic big four, the CW, and PBS that broadcasts OTA? I guess that is six, but what are the odds something would be on the same channels at the same time that you wanted to watch?
I live in Southern California in the Los Angeles area, our OTA signals come from the top of Mt. Wilson (5,000' elevation) in the San Gabriel Mountains. I can actually see the array of TV/Radio antennas from my house that are about 10 miles away as the crow flies.

I just ran the "Auto Program" on my Samsung HDTV OTA tuner, I came up with 169 Digital channels and ONE analog channel still broadcasting. There are actually a number of good sub-channels available OTA that I can not get via cable!

http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/losangeles.html

I would very much like the ability to Tivo OTA channels on my 6 tuner Roamio Pro...
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:47 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
So in other words, you're not willing to spend the time correcting your own posts, but you expect other folks to PM you in order to correct your posts????

I would think the amount of time you spend explaining and correcting yourself in long posts like this would convince you that it's worth doing some more self-review on your controversial posts (the majority of your posts are good, factual, and informative, but threads like this where you tend to overstate things are obvious even to you, I would think.)
Who isn't guilty of occasionally including a sentence or two that isn't 100% On-Topic? That's the ONLY reason I had considered removing the last bit all on my own. Once it gets quoted, if I remove or edit it, then that results in a whole new can of worms. That's why a PM works better, sometimes.

I often spend a great deal of time editing, re-editing, and for what? I usually still find a way to offend somebody, or bring the wrath of those who just accuse me of just being unhappy (usually with a declaration of how happy they are). Like as if I think I have the power to make somebody happy with a product, unhappy with that product, or the other way around.

Since the passage in question got quoted, I gave the full explanation to back up what I said, be more specific, and defend myself. It happened. Let's just move on.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 04-06-2014 at 01:02 AM. Reason: context
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:23 PM   #35
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Perhaps the device could be made backwards compatible with my Series 1 box, that way I could replace the digital converter box in my current setup with something that would automatically change channels.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:01 PM   #36
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Perhaps the device could be made backwards compatible with my Series 1 box, that way I could replace the digital converter box in my current setup with something that would automatically change channels.
That only has USB 1.1, which would be too slow even if they could get something like an add on OTA tuner to work.

USB 1.1 is only 12Mbps.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:52 PM   #37
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Yes, I would buy it. I'm actually thinking of buying a basic Roamio instead of one of my minis for that exact reason. I run two of my 6 TVs in the house strictly off OTA...beautiful free HD picture.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:58 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Summon the firing squad for me using the words "belly-up". Two words...
Firing squad? You made a comment that a product goes belly-up under a specific circumstance. I replied that it didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
If you had PM'd me, and were decent in your approach, I may have come back and pulled that last comment, before it wound up quoted (which was your doing). Too late now. If I spent any more time than I already do, reviewing and re-reviewing my posts, it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to bother contributing anything to the forum.
I must be confused. Isn't this a forum where people post comments, and others reply? Why would I PM you when you make a statement, and I choose to differ?

I know nothing about your reviewing and re-reviewing your posts. You posted something, I refuted it, and now you blame me for your error. And castigate me for quoting you?!?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Either think before you type, or be prepared for what comes next.

And btw, I was kind. Never got personal, nothing mean-spirited. Simply pointing out the fallacies in your post.
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by abovethesink View Post
I am curious. Having always lived in rural areas, I only have ever had CBS, ABC, and PBS over the air. Where I am currently at it is PBS only. How many channels OTA do some get if six tuners could ever be needed? Isn't only the historic big four, the CW, and PBS that broadcasts OTA? I guess that is six, but what are the odds something would be on the same channels at the same time that you wanted to watch?
If you pad recordings, it is very easy to use up 6 tuners now that we are back to needing two tuners for padded, successive recordings on the same channel.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:01 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
And btw, I was kind. Never got personal, nothing mean-spirited. Simply pointing out the fallacies in your post.


Everybody is entitled to their opinions. Just because a product works well for you in the way that you use it, with your configuration, within your parameters, doesn't mean it will do the same for me (or everybody else, for that matter).

Enjoy your configuration, and I'll stick with mine. I'm still not interested in a Mini, nor is that the topic of the thread.
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:44 AM   #41
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Price I'd pay depends on what it does. $99 to $150 I guess.

Direct connect to my existing unit.

Yes I would get one.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:58 AM   #42
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Price I'd pay depends on what it does. $99 to $150 I guess.

Direct connect to my existing unit.

Yes I would get one.
At first that seemed a bit high to be willing to pay. Then I thought not so bad, as long as TiVo doesn't make you pay a subscription fee for a tuner, should they ever offer an add-on one. Also, as you said "depends on what it does" (number of tuners, mix cable w/OTA concurrently, selectable number for each, total number).

Such a product could possibly result in no need to keep making the odd form-factor plastic base model Roamios in the future. I guess I just don't like that they don't stack, or even blend-in all that well. Can't set a Tuning Adapter on one without scratching the hell out of the plastic, and the domed top causing TA overheating, etc...
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:22 PM   #43
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Everybody is entitled to their opinions. Just because a product works well for you in the way that you use it, with your configuration, within your parameters, doesn't mean it will do the same for me (or everybody else, for that matter).

Enjoy your configuration, and I'll stick with mine. I'm still not interested in a Mini, nor is that the topic of the thread.
You're still at this? YOU first raised the Mini issue, not me. Don't blame me for thread drift. You claimed the Mini goes belly-up in certain situations, I refuted it. That doesn't mean "my configuration" works, it means the Mini works.

You have an amazing ability to really irritate people with your responses. I've noticed how often people will jump all over something you've said (myself included), only for you to get defensive and claim "that wasn't your intention". Since you clearly aren't going to change your style, it's time for me to slink away.

/unsubscribe/
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:45 PM   #44
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You're still at this? YOU first raised the Mini issue, not me. Don't blame me for thread drift. You claimed the Mini goes belly-up in certain situations, I refuted it. That doesn't mean "my configuration" works, it means the Mini works.

You have an amazing ability to really irritate people with your responses. I've noticed how often people will jump all over something you've said (myself included), only for you to get defensive and claim "that wasn't your intention". Since you clearly aren't going to change your style, it's time for me to slink away.

/unsubscribe/


All three of my Roamios are pretty much "belly-up" right now and in C133 lockdown, while everything else on my network is just fine and fully internet functional. The long version is where it belongs, in the official TiVoMargret Spring Update announcement & discussion thread.

My post: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...3#post10067853

The TivoMargret OP thread link: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=516208

Confirmation of it not being limited to me: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...9#post10067859

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyf View Post
http://status.tivo.com is showing a partial outage on core services. They're calling a minor outage ... seems pretty major to me.
I'm trying to politely find my way out of the drift, but also am noticing that the number of poll participants bumps up with each new post, which is a good thing. The more that notice the poll and participate, the better.

Any ideas on keeping the poll participants coming, without diluting the relevant posts in this thread, anybody?
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:06 PM   #45
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I like the idea of the option. Sadly, I think it is unrealistic given Tivo's track record.

I could see an outside chance of them offering Mini-like functionality on a Roamio, allowing it to stream one network-based (and Tivo-branded) tuner. I say this simply because they have the Mini software in place, so they might be able to repurpose it on the parent boxes.

I had an HDhomerun Prime before I got my Mini, and while it did some things that I appreciated, the Mini setup has a much higher WAF, and I can't see Tivo possibly tying into 3rd-party products like that. Tivo pretty much has its own ecosystem. Anything outside of Tivo (and iOS, I suppose) is unsupported at best.

Also, like most things Tivo has not done yet, it could easily be a patent issue. I presume that DirecTV might have a patent on the externally connected OTA tuner of some sort. I also presume that they have a patent related to the manner in which they do padding. And I know when I had a ReplayTV, it would schedule recordings on another box on the network if all tuners were tied up (something I am pretty confident, Tivos can't do). Many of these things seem like they would be no-brainers if not for patent issues.

EDIT: I guess the other way they could go would be to rip more of the guts out of a base Roamio, and sell that, but make the service on it cheap or free for OTA-only. But, I don't think you'll ever see the quick tuner-swapping that you get from the integrated tuners, no matter what.

Last edited by ncfoster : 04-07-2014 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:06 AM   #46
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I would have some interest in playing around with an antenna to see what I could receive, but I am lucky enough to have FIOS, which offers every sub-channel I care about and good picture quality on locals. I am probably too far out to get good results from an indoor antenna and I'm too lazy to try to set up an outdoor antenna.

If FIOS didn't offer certain channels, I might pay $50 to try to add OTA.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:38 PM   #47
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If TiVo offered an external OTA tuner for the Roamio that allowed you to record both cable and OTA at the same time would you buy one? If so would it have to have 6 tuners? Or would 2-4 tuners be OK? And would you prefer it to be network based, like an HDHomeRun, or USB connected directly to the TiVo? What would you expect something like this to cost?

Personally I would love something like this, but I'm wondering if I'm the only one.
+1

I think I would prefer USB and support 4 - 6 tuners. But beggars can not be choosers.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:35 AM   #48
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Yep, but why not CC-tuner for the Base, as well?

I actually came to the TCF looking for a thread discussing whether TiVo supported third-party (but fully vetted) tuners.

Given that TiVo *still* hasn't gotten around to providing a merged interface for a multi-DVR network (i.e. even multiple DVRs of the same model type) -- including merged show listings, conflict resolution, etc. -- the ability to add additional tuners via USB or networking would seem to be the ideal solution.

The single Roamio with networked Minis approach would be enhanced greatly by having the flexibility to beef-up or adapt a Roamio's tuning capabilities as one's needs change.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:01 PM   #49
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I have the roamio base model and use it for OTA currently, but would appreciate the option of a usb OTA tuner if the price were reasonable. If I decided to subscribe to cable, I would find it difficult being forced to choose between the cable and the ota setup for the base roamio. In a similar manner to the pro and plus owners, I would appreciate being able to setup tivo for cable and still have ota tuner add on. 4 tuners total between ota and cable would likely be more than enough for me.
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:53 PM   #50
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But typically with cable, you have the same channels available that you can get from OTA. So OTA would be more of a backup. At least this is how I mostly use my OTA Roamio Basic since I also have a Roamio Pro on FiOS. Or for the handful of times I need seven or eight concurrent recordings.
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:44 AM   #51
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But typically with cable, you have the same channels available that you can get from OTA. So OTA would be more of a backup. At least this is how I mostly use my OTA Roamio Basic since I also have a Roamio Pro on FiOS. Or for the handful of times I need seven or eight concurrent recordings.
My understanding is that cable doesn't carry all of the sub channels. And with a decent antenna I'm able to get out of market OTA channels. Additionally the main channels OTA are not as highly compressed as on cable.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:21 PM   #52
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But typically with cable, you have the same channels available that you can get from OTA. So OTA would be more of a backup. At least this is how I mostly use my OTA Roamio Basic since I also have a Roamio Pro on FiOS. Or for the handful of times I need seven or eight concurrent recordings.
I like what krkaufman proposed with a merged interface for multi-dvrs in home. I'd be pretty stoked if I could add additional DVRs like a blade to add tuner and storage capacity (Enterprise DVR?). I don't need to know which box records it, nor where is saved. I'd be inclined to buy more units, if the UI merged all these boxes into a single view. Even better if one could be OTA.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:04 PM   #53
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My understanding is that cable doesn't carry all of the sub channels. And with a decent antenna I'm able to get out of market OTA channels. Additionally the main channels OTA are not as highly compressed as on cable.
I haven't noticed any missing.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:50 PM   #54
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My understanding is that cable doesn't carry all of the sub channels. And with a decent antenna I'm able to get out of market OTA channels. Additionally the main channels OTA are not as highly compressed as on cable.
I guess it depends on the area. In my area FiOS seems to carry them all.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:04 PM   #55
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And it is crappy plastic case, non-standard component size, has no built-in Stream, and lacks some other stuff I can't remember right now.

Having an optional OTA tuner for the Standard/Pro is actually a great idea. And if reasonably priced, I would certainly buy it... because OTA is a MUCH better picture than Cox cable, and probably MOST cable companies. It is a great backup if your cable fails. And it also keeps your expensive TiVo from being a brick if you suddenly decide you want to ditch cable.

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt it would ever happen.
The reason I bumped up to the Plus was hard disk size and no component out for my slingbox 350. I figure if I ever cut the cord, I will just sell my Pro and Plus and opt for what ever is OTA at that time.
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Old 05-18-2014, 04:05 PM   #56
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I have the basic, but I really wanted all the additional features of the plus/pro (including better airflow for stacking equipment). But they didn't have OTA.
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:37 PM   #57
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Vote: YES

Yes, I would buy such a device if it were under $100. Two tuners dedicated to OTA would be fine.

I have a Roamio Pro but still keep my TiVo HD connected to cable and OTA as a backup. I rarely record OTA but have done so when the cable goes out. I have FIOS so that doesn't happen often.
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Old 05-23-2014, 04:13 AM   #58
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Our TiVos (2 lifetime S4's and one subscription Premiere) are the primary boxes we use because they are so user-simple, but we just started getting hit with an extra $10 a month for each of the three M-Stream CableCARDs. The fact that our monthly payment to Comcast (the only cable game in town) is second only to our food bill and this is the appreciation they give us in return has gotten me ready to put everything back on their doorstep but for my unhealthy addiction to live sports.

I've been anticipating the day I would get enough resolve to tell Comcast to take their overpriced services elsewhere, so for nearly 1-1/2 years I've been running Windows Media Center with a 3-tuner HDHomeRun Prime (cable only) and 2 HDHomeRun Duals (2 OTA-tuners each) on my PC and a 6 HDD (many TBs of multimedia) fileserver. With this arrangement there are no monthly fees other than the CableCARD rental for the HDHR Prime. It's not as dead-simple as the TiVo and other room control is a little more challenging without buying extenders (like the XBox360).

The bottom line is that if we're going to stick with cable, I feel we've got to get a better bang-for-the-buck solution than having to pay for three CableCARDs serving only 2-tuners each. This could entail going with something like a 6-tuner Roamio, but currently that becomes a paperweight or someone else's property if we ever say farewell to cable. I probably wouldn't go that direction unless I had the added capability for it to work with our HDHomeRun Duals.

So I guess the answer to the original question is yes, I would buy an external tuner because I already have them and would love to be able to use them on any TiVo. That would be the best of all worlds and would have me buying a Roamio yesterday.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:07 AM   #59
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I would buy it in a heartbeat. Even though I have cable, I like the backup ability of OTA.
Right there.

Xfinity only provided limited SD service to my house for a couple of weeks and I learned to appreciate the beauty, convenience, and variety of OTA channels via my Premiere and HDLX. My Plus was pretty useless since I had a Roku and Apple TV attached.
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