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Old 05-16-2014, 05:11 PM   #1
telemark
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4TB+ Hard Drive Models

I'm making a list of 4TB (or greater) Hard Drives that might become common in Tivo upgrades. If anyone has one of these, I could use the sector count for each one.

Western Digital:
  • AV-GP
    • WD40EURX
    • 7,814,037,168 (from spec)
  • Green
    • WD40EZRX
    • 7,814,037,168 (from spec)
  • Red
    • WD40EFRX
    • 7,814,037,168
  • Purple
    • WD40PURX
    • 7,814,037,168

Seagate:
  • Video
    • ST4000VM000
    • 7,814,037,168 (from spec)
  • Desktop
    • ST4000DM000
    • 7,814,037,168

Hitachi:
  • Desktop
    • Deskstar Coolspin
    • 7,814,037,168

On Linux:
> hdparm -N /dev/sdX
or
> dmesg | grep sectors

On Windows 7, XP Pro, 2003, Vista:
> wmic diskdrive get name,size,model
Reference:
http://people.virginia.edu/~rtg2t/winadmin/wmic.html
http://www.computerhope.com/wmic.htm

On Dos:
http://hddguru.com/software/2005.10.02-MHDD/ or
Hitachi Feature Tool

Since this is an ATA query, USB-SATA adapters can give random results.

Last edited by telemark : 06-29-2014 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:46 PM   #2
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I have the Hitachi in a Windows 7 64-bit machine. What's the easiest way to find out the sector count?
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:55 PM   #3
telemark
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DOS boot floppy with a util, is the most accurate, but since that's not easy, I think this command is easy and accurate enough:
> wmic diskdrive get name,size,model
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:22 PM   #4
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Code:
Model                             Name                Size
Crucial_CT240M500SSD1 ATA Device  \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0  240054796800
HGST HMS5C4040ALE640 ATA Device   \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE3  4000784417280
M4-CT128M4SSD2 ATA Device         \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE1  128034708480
ST31500341AS ATA Device           \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE4  1500299297280
WDC WD30EZRX-00DC0B0 ATA Device   \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE2  3000590369280
I wouldn't mind creating a bootable USB flash drive and running some commands from there. I had to do it several times to update the firmware of my SSDs and HDDs.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:11 PM   #5
telemark
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Thanks, looks about right.

Hmm, DOS.

There's a list here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_Protected_Area#Manipulation_tools

I've heard of Hitachi Feature Tool.
And MHDD, looks pretty good too.

I just don't want anyone erasing their drive.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:48 PM   #6
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Could just look up the specifications on the manufacturers web site.

Western Digital:
•AV-GP ◦WD40EURX - 7,814,037,168

•Green◦WD40EZRX - 7,814,037,168

•Red◦WD40EFRX - 7,814,037,168

•Purple◦WD40PURX - 7,814,037,168


Seagate:
•Video ◦ST4000VM000 - 7,814,037,168

•Desktop ◦ST4000DM000 - 7,814,037,168


Hitachi:
•Desktop ◦Deskstar Coolspin 7,814,037,168

These are all from either the datasheet or the drive manuals from the repective manufacturers site. Sometimes there is a discrepancy between this and what is reported by running programs. This can be due to a HPA on the drive or an actual reporting issue from the program in the way it determines sector count.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:03 AM   #7
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I have a WD red 4Tb in my computer if you need more information. It is split into 3 partitions.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squint View Post
I have the Hitachi in a Windows 7 64-bit machine. What's the easiest way to find out the sector count?
Get out your old copy of the MFS Live cd, v1.4, boot with it, and


hdparm -N /dev/sda


should show you the LBA number for sda, and if there's an HPA on it, it'll show you the reported size and the real size.


But be careful, 'cause we are talking hdparm here.
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Old 05-17-2014, 05:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
Could just look up the specifications on the manufacturers web site.

Western Digital:
•AV-GP ◦WD40EURX - 7,814,037,168

•Green◦WD40EZRX - 7,814,037,168

•Red◦WD40EFRX - 7,814,037,168

•Purple◦WD40PURX - 7,814,037,168


Seagate:
•Video ◦ST4000VM000 - 7,814,037,168

•Desktop ◦ST4000DM000 - 7,814,037,168


Hitachi:
•Desktop ◦Deskstar Coolspin 7,814,037,168

These are all from either the datasheet or the drive manuals from the repective manufacturers site. Sometimes there is a discrepancy between this and what is reported by running programs. This can be due to a HPA on the drive or an actual reporting issue from the program in the way it determines sector count.
I can vouch for those numbers on the WD40EFRX (red) and the ST4000DM000.
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Old 05-17-2014, 09:12 PM   #10
telemark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
7,814,037,168
Thanks for the legwork. Hmm, that would really simplify things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
I can vouch for those numbers on the WD40EFRX (red) and the ST4000DM000.
Thanks too. Sounds like good news.
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Get out your old copy of the MFS Live cd, v1.4, boot with it, and

hdparm -N /dev/sda

should show you the LBA number for sda, and if there's an HPA on it, it'll show you the reported size and the real size.

But be careful, 'cause we are talking hdparm here.
Since I was expanding drives, I took a moment to run hdparm. I got 7,814,037,168.
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:19 AM   #12
telemark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squint View Post
Since I was expanding drives, I took a moment to run hdparm. I got 7,814,037,168.
Thanks, that's kinda curious.

I wonder what Windows was doing, but no biggie.
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
Thanks, that's kinda curious.

I wonder what Windows was doing, but no biggie.
4,000,784,417,280 / 7,814,037,168 = 511.999665636

I'm guessing that should be 512.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squint View Post
4,000,784,417,280 / 7,814,037,168 = 511.999665636

I'm guessing that should be 512.
All drives nowadays have LBAs that end in 168--apparently the manufacturers managed to agree to standardize on that.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
All drives nowadays have LBAs that end in 168--apparently the manufacturers managed to agree to standardize on that.
I would hope so. I didn't want to jinx it by making a declaration on it. So, that's all on you now.

It was really annoying when WD opted to stop printing the LBA number when their first "4K" or "AF" drives hit the market. I don't know what the reasoning behind it was. The best I can guess would be that since AF/4K/512e are all the same thing, and all the talk was about how 4K was better, that they didn't want their support centers being overwhelmed by people asking why the LBA wasn't reduced by a division of 8, on their spiffy new advanced 4K drive...

I'll correct myself on the AF/4K/512e "all being the same". Someday, in the future, we will likely see the ability to use a true 4K sector drive, minus the emulation of 8x512 byte sector emulation (512e) we use now.

There are some true 4K drives out there, just not in the wild, AFAIK. There are some reports that some did get sent out early-on, but were never meant for consumers, AFAIK.
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:14 PM   #16
telemark
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Kickstart Compatibility

On a WD40PURX in a Roamio, I think I'm getting un-ending SMART tests.
[ image attached ]
It got through 90% quickly though.

Do we have any models known working, or do you think this is just a large size issue?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SmartTest.jpg (26.0 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by telemark : 06-29-2014 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
On a WD40PURX in a Roamio, I think I'm getting un-ending SMART tests.
[ image attached ]
It got through 90% quickly though.

Do we have any models known working, or do you think this is just a large size issue?
It does look like possibly large drives. But, why then, if the Roamio Pro comes with a 3TB drive, would a 3TB Red NAS go on running for 4 days without completing the extended or offline data collection tests on a base Roamio (unless there's something different between each model, based on the stock drive size)?

I think you posted this is the wrong thread. We were discussing this in a different thread, where I laid out what I'd like you to test specifically. Although, this seems like a better place for the discussion.

I ran into this months ago (before you joined in), and nobody was willing to try and replicate, or check for different results. Most just told me not to bother with the TiVo's SMART tests, and to use a computer for the tests (which always works and completes on the same drives I'm working with).

I had laid-out the possibility that TiVo had neglected to update KS54 to work with >2TB drives. I couldn't even get much input, and nobody, that I can recall, verified/disproved that for me (for the community).

I think I may be slightly off in that nobody tried. I think one claimed a 3TB AV-GP drive completed without issue. But, there have been no screen shots posted on this, until just now (yours).

Like I said in the other thread, it might be due to the time TiVo waits between polling the drive for status, causing an idle-timer to time-out (doesn't make sense to me, since the drive should be kept busy as soon as the test begins).

The Red NAS has it's own program, different from wdidle3.exe, for changing head-parking timers. Before WD made it available, I just used the usual one to read the status, which was "disabled". But, that may not mean anything. The Red NAS may also have both the original idle-timer, plus another one that works more closely with Advanced Power Management functions, which the original idle-timer worked independently from, allowing it to work on drives not supporting APM functions and multi-level power-saving states.

I'm about to pull one out for drive replacement due to a drive failure. That will give me a chance to play around with the stock drive, as well as seeing what the new Red NAS tool changes, if it even does change the situation at all.

Seemingly due to my posts about these anomalies, I had started seeing people start not recommending (saying to avoid) the WD Red NAS drives, which is a shame. They should work fine. I believe the issue is either drive size related, or due to something TiVo failed to update (KS54).

I know ggieseke uses Red NAS in at least one of his TiVos. I've shared a lot with him via e-mail. So, you may want to see he he has to say.
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Old 06-30-2014, 06:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I know ggieseke uses Red NAS in at least one of his TiVos. I've shared a lot with him via e-mail. So, you may want to see he he has to say.
I used a 4TB Red in my XL, but I haven't run KS54 in years. I always yank the drive and run the manufacturer's tests on my PC.
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