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Old 05-01-2014, 08:40 AM   #1
Paradisel
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Yet again. Premeire vs Roamio

I've read several other threads I've found and unfortunately they were very unhelpful. I don't want roamio cheerleading.

Roamio is over better. I get that. My question is, for my purpose, why is it better?

I get the speed factor. However the overall speed between the two seems to be very slight, only a few seconds. Netflix is a huge speed difference between the two, but I currently have 3 different ways to enter netflix, my tv itself, my blu-ray, and my xbox. And frankly if netflix opened too fast I'd probably freak I'm used to it being slow. My current blu-ray is how I generally use it and it does so in about 10-12 seconds or so. I am planning to upgrade though to an oppo and I don't know how fast it operates.

Pretty much I watch very little tv. The Walking Dead, The Good Wife, Game of Thrones. The other shows I was watching seem to have been axed.

I expect that might change once I go Tivo again, I used to work for them and at the time I watched almost no tv. That changed drastically with the addition of tivo. However, At the moment I have no TV reception, I am on the fence between OTA and cable.

If I'm just going to use it for OTA programming or basic cable overall, Is there any reason other than a slight difference in speed for the menus?

Does the Newer tivo remotes allow for multi device programming? I would like to control my TV, Cable (if I get it), Blu-ray, and theater with 1 remote, which is why I am looking at logitech.

I will likely get another lifetime account as I had on my series 1.

I already have a tv, blu-ray, and xbox that all get netflix. The TV and Blu-ray both do amazon prime, which I've used -once- and Vudu which I really only use at friends or relatives, I already own the discs.

The Bedroom TVs are used very seldom.

So without going into a cheerleading for the roamio, pros and cons between the Premeire and Roamio

The Premiere I am looking at gets ota, 1080p HD, 75 hours HD, Works with the tivo app, and has netflix, huluplus, amazon direct (Which I guess is different from Amazon prime... wth). It's the TCD746500.

98.00 for premiere, 175 for the roamio. What does the other 77 bucks get me?
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:23 AM   #2
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Yet again. Premeire vs Roamio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradisel View Post
What does the other 77 bucks get me?
Wifi, future software and feature development plus 2 more tuners and the ability to add Mini's in the future.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:34 AM   #3
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Also 1080p/60 output option which Premiere line can't do.

As a down side, the Roamio can do only cable OR OTA, not both at same time. The Premiere can do both at same time.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradisel View Post
What does the other 77 bucks get me?
2013 hardware instead of 2009 hardware.

Kind of like the difference between a iphone 4 and 5s, they run the same software and do the same thing - but boy what a difference in the over all user experience.

Before I bought my Roamio I was ok with my Premiere (The Premiere had/has more OTA reception issues so at times it was/is a pain but generally I was happy with it) and wouldn't have believed anyone if they told how much more I would like the Roamio. No other way to explain it.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:06 PM   #5
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If Series 3 versus Premiere is any indication, software support will be offered longer on a Roamio than on a Premiere.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
Also 1080p/60 output option which Premiere line can't do.
I wonder if providers are actually using that resolution. My new-ish TWC STB is a Cisco Explorer 4742HDC, manufactured in 8/2013, and is only hardware-capable of these resolution combinations (as per official Cisco PDF file):

Quote:
Output Resolutions 720 x 480i 60 Hz, 1920 x 1080i 60 Hz, 1920 x 1080p 30 Hz, 1920 x 1080p 24 Hz, 1280 x 720p 60 Hz, 720 x 480p 60 Hz, 720 x 480i 60 Hz, software controlled

Video Decoders Dedicated 400 MHz VLIW CPU Processor, MPEG-4 (H.264) up to HP@L4.0 (HD), VC1 AP@L2&3, MPEG-2 up to MP@HL, 1920 x 1080i 60 Hz, 1920 x 1080p 30 Hz, 1920 x 1080p 24 Hz, 1280 x 720p 60 Hz, 720 x 480p 60Hz, 720 x 480i 60 Hz, video scaling, software controlled
http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/product...s/7018348a.pdf
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:18 PM   #7
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The roamio gives you the option of extending the tivo service to other tvs in your household through the use of a relatively inexpensive tivo mini and both the basic tivo roamio and the mini have a smaller footprint than a premiere. However, the premiere is a perfectly fine piece of electronics with the added benefit that you can likely find one used with lifetime service for around $300 on ebay. Craigs list and the for sale forum of tivocommunity are also good places to buy a used premiere.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christheman View Post
I wonder if providers are actually using that resolution. My new-ish TWC STB is a Cisco Explorer 4742HDC, manufactured in 8/2013, and is only hardware-capable of these resolution combinations (as per official Cisco PDF file):



http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/product...s/7018348a.pdf
No, I don't think there are any (if any) sources with that resolution, but you can have TiVo output that resolution instead of leaving the scaling to TV/receiver if you wish. Depending on your TV/receiver it could be better, worse or not noticeably different from the native resolution, but it's at least an option that is not available from series 4 units.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:30 PM   #9
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No, I don't think there are any (if any) sources with that resolution, but you can have TiVo output that resolution instead of leaving the scaling to TV/receiver if you wish. Depending on your TV/receiver it could be better, worse or not noticeably different from the native resolution, but it's at least an option that is not available from series 4 units.
Okay, so that might just for upscaling. That would produce some very large files. The latest Hauppauge HD-PVRs are capable of 1080p/60 "pass-thru", but only 1080p/30 encoding (via HDMI input). So far I have only read about gaming systems actually doing that.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:09 PM   #10
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Don't need wifi, everything stable is on hardline. Wifi is only used for laptops and mobiles.

As in 2 more tuners you mean so I can record 4 at once? I can only barely imagine 2 at once because with my original tivo rarely did I want to watch two things at once.

Software, ok but as long as the current software is bug free, this shouldn't be an issue as I have other devices capable of apps - netflix, amazon prime, vudu. Also One thing I remember was every time tivo updated the house would cringe because generally the tivo would run slower every time and the introduced things like, commercials on top of commercials. Was also fun to "have" to update, just to get a new advertisement, on phone speed (series 1) connecting to download an ad was BS.

Other than the hard drive I can't see much difference in regards to hardware from 09 to 13. While I haven't built a gaming rig in several years, computing hardware had pretty much hit a plateau and the focus was less on more speed/power, less power consumption to smaller/less power consumption.

1080/60p good point, though I rarely see much at that currently and frankly the difference between it and 24 is barely noticeable, to me.

Anything else? I'm really leaning to the suggestion to grab one with lifetime off craiglist now. Even if I keep the one I bought yesterday for 98, for just the 2 year replacement.

Thanks for the responses so far.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:10 PM   #11
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Oh no one mentioned it yet, can the newer tivo remotes be used universally yet?
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:35 PM   #12
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Okay, so that might just for upscaling. That would produce some very large files.
?? The video output setting has no effect on the size of recordings at all. TiVo records the cable transmissions as is regardless of your output video setting. The video output setting only affects what scaling is done for the HDMI and/or component outputs.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:49 PM   #13
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?? The video output setting has no effect on the size of recordings at all. TiVo records the cable transmissions as is regardless of your output video setting. The video output setting only affects what scaling is done for the HDMI and/or component outputs.
Sorry, I left out an "otherwise" in my post. But that was what I meant.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Paradisel View Post
Don't need wifi, everything stable is on hardline. Wifi is only used for laptops and mobiles.

As in 2 more tuners you mean so I can record 4 at once? I can only barely imagine 2 at once because with my original tivo rarely did I want to watch two things at once.

Software, ok but as long as the current software is bug free, this shouldn't be an issue as I have other devices capable of apps - netflix, amazon prime, vudu. Also One thing I remember was every time tivo updated the house would cringe because generally the tivo would run slower every time and the introduced things like, commercials on top of commercials. Was also fun to "have" to update, just to get a new advertisement, on phone speed (series 1) connecting to download an ad was BS.

Other than the hard drive I can't see much difference in regards to hardware from 09 to 13. While I haven't built a gaming rig in several years, computing hardware had pretty much hit a plateau and the focus was less on more speed/power, less power consumption to smaller/less power consumption.

1080/60p good point, though I rarely see much at that currently and frankly the difference between it and 24 is barely noticeable, to me.

Anything else? I'm really leaning to the suggestion to grab one with lifetime off craiglist now. Even if I keep the one I bought yesterday for 98, for just the 2 year replacement.

Thanks for the responses so far.
There are really only 3 reasons I can think of to buy a Premiere over a Roamio:
  1. You want to do OTA and Cable at the same time
  2. You need to be able to do Analog cable
  3. You save lots of money - like buying a used Premiere with lifetime and maybe an upgraded hard drive. Which should cost about $300 less than buying a Roamio and adding lifetime
In my opinion only saving $75 does not justify buying the Premiere and regardless of what you want to believe the hard ware is day and night different. Until you have used both DVRs together it is impossible to explain. There is the obvious stuff like 4 tuners versus 2 and then other stuff that you have to use them together to find out like how much better the tuners in the Roamio are at tuning OTA than the ones in the Premiere, or how easy it is to upgrade the hard drive in the Roamio (plug and play no software needed) etc. etc.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:47 PM   #15
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Oh no one mentioned it yet, can the newer tivo remotes be used universally yet?
Not as universally as you indicated you want in the original post. The primary benefit of the Roamio remote is that it can connect through rf rather than ir.

The OTA signal of the Roamio is split 4 ways rather than the 2 way split of the Premiere so you have to weigh what some say is a "better" ATSC tuner in the Roamio over the possibly weaker signal due to the extra splitting with the Roamio.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:58 PM   #16
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As a down side, the Roamio can do only cable OR OTA, not both at same time. The Premiere can do both at same time.
Just to be clear only the 2 tuner Premiere units can do OTA. The 4 tuner units are cable only just like the 6 tuner Roamio units.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by christheman View Post
I wonder if providers are actually using that resolution. My new-ish TWC STB is a Cisco Explorer 4742HDC, manufactured in 8/2013, and is only hardware-capable of these resolution combinations (as per official Cisco PDF file):



http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/product...s/7018348a.pdf
If you mean Cable providers, I think some are doing 1080p on-demand. Netflix SuperHD is 1080p(-ish). Same thing for some Amazon Instant. Whether the Roamio actually displays this for streaming applications is unknown to me.

-Ted
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:43 PM   #18
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Amazon and Netflix HD titles are 1080p/24 (which Premiere units can output in pass through mode).
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:45 PM   #19
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If you mean Cable providers, I think some are doing 1080p on-demand. Netflix SuperHD is 1080p(-ish). Same thing for some Amazon Instant. Whether the Roamio actually displays this for streaming applications is unknown to me.

-Ted
I just haven't seen or heard of anyone doing 1080p/60, outside of high-end gaming. 1080i/60, 1080p30, etc of course.

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Old 05-01-2014, 04:30 PM   #20
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1080p/60 is useful when you only set the TiVo to a single output. With a Premiere unit if you set it to 1080i then all 720p content will be converted to 30fps interlaced and then back to 60fps progressive by your TV. If you set the TiVo to 720p then you'll lose resolution on 1080i content. With it set to 1080p/60 you'll still get the full resolution on 1080i and full progressive/frame rate on 720p content. It's the best option for the minimal amount of processing. In fact setting your TiVo to 1080p/60 is basically the same as allowing all the resolutions and doing native passthrough. Your TV is converting everything to 1080p/60 internally anyway. And the TiVo can do it without the weird resolution switch freakout that most TVs have.
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Old 05-01-2014, 05:01 PM   #21
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Interesting. A little Least Common Multiple play going on there.

So if I get a Roameo I can hold off on getting one of these things.
http://www.amazon.com/DVDO-High-Defi...dp_ob_title_ce
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Old 05-01-2014, 05:19 PM   #22
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I'm sure something like that produces better picture quality. But honestly I've never seen an issue with my Roamio set to 1080p/60
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:33 AM   #23
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Interesting. A little Least Common Multiple play going on there.

So if I get a Roameo I can hold off on getting one of these things.
http://www.amazon.com/DVDO-High-Defi...dp_ob_title_ce
I remember beta testing those. They work well although I sold the two I had when the DVDO DUo came out. If you only have one device, like the TiVo, you probably don't need to mess with the EDGE. But with multiple devices it can come in handy.

But we are only talking about broadcast content. Having the Roamio scale to 1080P60 or having the Roamio scale Netflix content to 1080P24, it looks fine using the Roamio just for that.

A better device to improve the picture quality would be a Darbee Darblet. But again it's only broadcast content and only so much can be done to broadcast content since it is not the best looking content to begin with because of the way it is broadcast.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:32 PM   #24
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I remember beta testing those. They work well although I sold the two I had when the DVDO DUo came out. If you only have one device, like the TiVo, you probably don't need to mess with the EDGE. But with multiple devices it can come in handy.

But we are only talking about broadcast content. Having the Roamio scale to 1080P60 or having the Roamio scale Netflix content to 1080P24, it looks fine using the Roamio just for that.

A better device to improve the picture quality would be a Darbee Darblet. But again it's only broadcast content and only so much can be done to broadcast content since it is not the best looking content to begin with because of the way it is broadcast.

Hi, thanks for pointing the Darbee out to me. I vaguely recall seeing other people talking about it on other forums. The description and talk about it on Amazon makes me think the overall effect might be similar to Photoshop's Bicubic Sharper filter (usually used in combination with scaling down a picture), or Unsharp Mask (a more general filter used to enhance detail).

I'd have to see a demo of it to actually see what it does, but based on a bunch of reviews I just read, that is about what I would expect it to do.

A hardware version that runs in real time would be nice, along with a DVDO (to use as a high-end hardware scaler - one input and one output - also running in real time), between a cable box or Tivo and an HD-PVR.

One of my goals would be to bring down the file size of my re-encoded broadcast video, since it is not really using all that bandwidth in many cases. It is either that or else get a brute-force top-of-the-line I7 computer just to crunch video 24 hours a day with 2-pass encoding.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:32 AM   #25
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I don't think this was mentioned, but from my understanding, upgrading or repairing a Roamio's hard drive is much easier than doing this with a Premiere. Simply swap the drive in a Roamio and you are done. The software is on the DVR's board so it preps the new drive as needed.

Upgrading or replacing a drive in a Premiere requires the use of other (free) software, obtaining an image and doing it all in a traditional PC via an available SATA port.
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