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Old 04-25-2014, 02:31 PM   #1
AgentT
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Question Can Roamio help replace the Actiontec with FIOS?

Hello all!

I'm a current FIOS user, with a Roamio and a Mini on my network, all using MOCA. I'm looking to upgrade to 802.11ac and was reading about how to do that with the existing Actiontec router. Plenty of guides online of how to do that by either using both routers, or switching my ONT to ethernet.

However it occurred to me, since the Roamio can bridge ethernet and MOCA, can I drop the Actiontec from my network, purchase a new AC router, and wire it to the roamio ethernet port, and have everything work?

I've read that the Roamio can work without the Actiontec via MOCA, but what's unclear to me is if I can chain the rest of my network off of the Roamio, utilizing it's MOCA-Ethernet bridge? Would the Roamio and Mini (as well as all other devices) be able to use the new router for DHCP? Would this have any other effect on the Tivo Mini, which I would still want to use MOCA as well?
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:42 PM   #2
shamilian
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yes. it will work.

all ethernet traffic going to a moca device will travel to the roamio bridge.

But yes this is a simple network change and it will work.

ONT to new router WAN needs to be ethernet.
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:00 PM   #3
AgentT
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Sorry I guess I wasn't as clear as I could be... I want to leave my ONT on MOCA, and want to connect the WAN port of the new router to the Roamio. I don't want the ONT directly connected tot he router at all, I want to use the Roamio to make that bridge for me. So something like this:

Wall <--coax--> Roamio
Roamio <--ethernet--> Router WAN
Router LAN <--ethernet--> PC, PS3, etc.
Router <--wireless--> laptop, tablet, etc.

Thanks!
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:19 PM   #4
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That will work but you will get better results if you just run a GigE connection between the Actiontec router and the AC router. The Roamio Pro will not take full advantage of the GigE connection. Plus it would also be going over the MoCA connection on top of it which is also limited speed. I'm using MoCA right now but I have my TiVo devices physically isolated on it's own network segment.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:28 PM   #5
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Thanks for the reply!

Your solution would leave me double NAT-ted I believe, as well as keep a potentially unneeded device (the Actiontec) in the mix. Port forwarding also becomes more of a pain when there are 2 routers in the mix.

That said, I am not sure I follow your logic... the Roamio and Mini would be in front of the router, connected directly to the ONT and each other via coax/MOCA, so I'm going to get my full FIOS/MOCA speed there I would think... Everything else would be behind the router, so any gigabit networking there would just be an internal gigabit network.

So my questions/concerns are:

1. Is there a difference between an ethernet<->MOCA LAN bridge, and an ethernet<->MOCA WAN bridge? If so, can the Roamio do the WAN variety?

2. Who would serve DHCP? Since the Roamio would be connected to the router WAN port, I don't think the router could serve DHCP upstream to the MOCA devices could it? Also, the Roamio would have to be the MOCA "master" which I thought would cause it to serve DHCP over MOCA?

3. I also use pyTivo and the TIVO app, so the Roamio would need to be reachable by the internal network, and not just pass thru the internet.

I would be delighted if it all works as I hope, but I think I'm still not grokking how it would. I know only enough networking to get by and perhaps be dangerous.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:17 PM   #6
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Moca does not run at GigE speeds

MoCA maxes out at roughly 175Mbps. That's less than 20% of GigE bandwith. I only have my TiVo and the two Minis on the MoCA network. Everything else is GigE.

Why not disable DHCP on the 802.11ac router, disable wireless on the Actiontec and then and just connect a LAN port between the two routers at GigE (not the WAN port on the 802.11ac router) to link the two together. That won't cause double NAT or anything. Port forwarding is also not an issue. I have the Actiontec (802.11n) and two other routers in my home (both 802.11n). All the routers are on the same channel and same SSID. Devices can switch from router to the other as I move through the house without issue. With the 802.11ac router you can have both bands active, use the 2.4GHz band to service 802.11n or 802.11g devices and the 5GHz band to service 802.11ac.

And the Roamio does not act as a DHCP server. The Roamio has to be on the LAN side of the network not the WAN side. The TiVo will function as a MoCA LAN bridge not MoCA WAN bridge.

If the Roamio is connected prior to the router it will get DHCP from FiOS and it will only assign one IP per WAN connection on FiOS residential. Remember that if the Roamio was connected directly to the coax prior to the router it would be on a public IP address and that would not be compatible with the 192.168.x.x network that the router would provide.

192.168.x.x networks are not routable so the public IP that the TiVo would get could not talk to the devices on the LAN side of a router even it that router had a second public IP address on the same subnet as the TiVo would have on the WAN side.

Last edited by davidjplatt : 04-25-2014 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentT View Post
Thanks for the reply!

Your solution would leave me double NAT-ted I believe, as well as keep a potentially unneeded device (the Actiontec) in the mix. Port forwarding also becomes more of a pain when there are 2 routers in the mix.

That said, I am not sure I follow your logic... the Roamio and Mini would be in front of the router, connected directly to the ONT and each other via coax/MOCA, so I'm going to get my full FIOS/MOCA speed there I would think... Everything else would be behind the router, so any gigabit networking there would just be an internal gigabit network.

So my questions/concerns are:

1. Is there a difference between an ethernet<->MOCA LAN bridge, and an ethernet<->MOCA WAN bridge? If so, can the Roamio do the WAN variety?

2. Who would serve DHCP? Since the Roamio would be connected to the router WAN port, I don't think the router could serve DHCP upstream to the MOCA devices could it? Also, the Roamio would have to be the MOCA "master" which I thought would cause it to serve DHCP over MOCA?

3. I also use pyTivo and the TIVO app, so the Roamio would need to be reachable by the internal network, and not just pass thru the internet.

I would be delighted if it all works as I hope, but I think I'm still not grokking how it would. I know only enough networking to get by and perhaps be dangerous.
When I ran two routers on FiOS, double NAT-ted, I had zero issues. It never caused me any problems. I still got the same fast speeds and quick connections. Whether gaming, streaming, downloading etc. There was no difference. It was the easiest solution when I still needed to have the Actiontec in use when I had a FiOS HD STB.

If you don't have any FiOS STBs then you should get your ONT setup for Ethernet and use your own router. Then just dump the Actiontec completely. When I first got FiOS in 2007, having an Ethernet connection from the ONT was a requirement for me to get FiOS. Otherwise if you are stuck using MoCA from the ONT. If there are any issues, you can't easily switch out routers like you can with the Ethernet connection.

i just recently switched back to Ethernet from MoCA because of issues I was having with TiVo Desktop. I had to put everything back the way it intiallly was to troubleshoot the problems.

But when I was using the MoCA I had it setup multiple ways. but no matter which way I had it setup. Whether it was double NAT-ted or not. The TiVo MoCA devices got their Ip addresses assigned from my router.(One configuration I tried was with the Actiontec supplying a MoCA connection so I could use it's GigE WAN connection as a link to my TiVo Desktop machine. It was more trouble than it was worth since I hate messing with the Actiontec routers)

Whether I used one Netgear MoCA adpater to get the internet connection from the router. Or whether I used the Roamio Pro Ethernet connection to the router, or even the Actiontec. The one ethernet connection to MoCa supplied a link for each MoCA device to the router which gave them Internet access and their IP addresses.
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Last edited by aaronwt : 04-29-2014 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:50 AM   #8
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Thanks again for following up!

I have an older Actiontec, which is only 10/100, so there is no Gigabit networking possibility there... that, coupled with it's 802.11g speeds and crappy UI, is why I wanted to dump that router completely. Also, my house is not wired for ethernet, but I do have coax pretty much everywhere, which is why I need to stay on MOCA.

Since my post, I've done some more research and a little trial and error, and come to the conclusion that what I wanted to do is just not possible. Apparently to bridge the WAN side, the device needs to support the C4 MOCA channel, and I can't find any indication anywhere that the Roamio does this (tho I can't find anything to the contrary either, other than davidjplatt's comment above... info seems thin in this area). So I decided to try to just turn off my Actiontec, and reboot the tivo, and see what happens. The tivo could not access the internet without the support of the Actiontec, which tells me it doesn't support the WAN side.

So I have reluctantly resolved to just keep the Actiontec in the mix, and just convert it to be a simple MOCA LAN/WAN bridge when I purchase a new WIFI router. Unfortunate, as it's just another box/wall wart I was hoping to be free of.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:34 PM   #9
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When I was messing around with the MoCA last week. I thought it was the D channels that the Roamio was using.
It was only eight channels and they ranged from 15 to 29. And my Dlink MoCA adapter works with it and is only supposed to use the D channels too.


Edit: Actually I remember now where I saw it. On the MoCA alliance website they have a section that shows the certified devices. The TiVos are listed there. And they list them as being certified for channels D1 - D8.

Here is the link to the MoCA certified producst list.

http://www.mocalliance.org/industry/...d_products.php
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Last edited by aaronwt : 04-29-2014 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentT View Post
Thanks again for following up!



Since my post, I've done some more research and a little trial and error, and come to the conclusion that what I wanted to do is just not possible. Apparently to bridge the WAN side, the device needs to support the C4 MOCA channel, .
Yup, your best option is to call Verizon and have the handoff changed to Ethernet

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Old 04-30-2014, 10:18 AM   #11
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I'm goinng to go back again and try MoCA. I just ordered the Actiontec ECB3500T01 which is the MoCA adapter with four GigE ports.
I'mjust not happy with the ethernet speeds since the last update.
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