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Old 04-24-2014, 07:24 PM   #181
pgogborn
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Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
I first wrote: "I was surprised that Skye did not think, even for a second, that the traitor might be Melinda. The evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive, but I did not expect Skye to be so rational about it so quickly."
She had a penny dropped moment.

Ward had already been talking about the hard drive, talked about "us", had kissed her and he didn't have a wound on his neck so he couldn't have opened it.

And Melinda left a one way exit track in the snow. Previous tracks had been negated by the falling snow.

But what I want to know is - exactly how did Skye leave a message for the team in the bathroom?
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:04 PM   #182
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I am shocked -- shocked -- to find that prostitution is going on there.
You missed my point.
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:56 PM   #183
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May seems so familiar, what other shows was that actress in? I felt like I knew her when I first saw her.
She was in Stargate:Universe and also Eureka.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:22 PM   #184
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And if you're thinking of her in a non sci-fi way, she was in 5+ seasons of E.R. She also has shown up in lots of other regular shows (5 episodes of Two and a Half Men), etc...
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:15 PM   #185
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Anyone else taken aback when May leaves the secret outpost and just walks out the door. The next time we see her she is walking on a highway with no snow to meet her mom. Did May walk all that way? Wow, she is a fast walker and has great endurance!!!

Gerry
Well, we all know that Ontario is in Canada, and Canada is right up there in the Arctic.

P.S. Had to put the AC on tonight, even though it was -7 this morning (that's 19 in foreign heat).
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:08 AM   #186
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Sure, you have a valid point. It should not be surprising that Skye is capable of making quick and correct logical deductions under extremely stressful circumstances, and she would never turn into an emotional quivering mass of jelly. Another valid point you made is that when she turned into a quivering mass of jelly that she was too logical to turn into, it was actually logical for her to do so, since there was nothing else she could have done to protect herself.
It is possible, you know, for humans to be both logical and emotional. It is perfectly reasonable for Skye to have realized where the overwhelming evidence pointed while at the same time being extremely upset by that revelation.

Just because she kissed Ward a couple of times doesn't mean she was so madly in love with him that she would ignore all of the signs that pointed to him.

When Ward told her that the reason he didn't originally accept her offer to talk was because he was afraid of his feelings for her, she responded, "I was just offering to talk, not have sex with you."

In this very episode, she told Ward that the only reason she kissed him was because they had a "97% chance of dying". That doesn't sound like someone so blinded by love that nothing short of seeing Ward kill Koenig in person would have convinced her that he was guilty.

While she had shown some interest in Ward, she had been extremely pragmatic about their potential relationship.

The evidence pointing to Ward was so overwhelming that as hard as it was for her to accept, she couldn't deny where everything pointed. She didn't need to go through some complex analysis to have the initial gut reaction that Ward was most likely responsible.

Nonetheless, she still took it upon herself to confirm not once, but twice, that Ward was Hydra. Until that point, she was not 100% certain. And that, by definition, means she was still open to the possibility that May was the Hydra agent.

But there is a difference between being open to a possibility and irrationally blaming. Skye has never been shown to be one who irrationally blames people for things. The fact that she had had disagreements with May in the past would not have clouded her judgment any more than the couple of kisses she had with Ward.

It is a big leap to go from being upset at a betrayal to irrationally blaming others. Just because both of those are based in emotion does not automatically mean a person in one state will also be in the other. People are not either 100% logical or 100% emotional beings; they are some mix of the two.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:15 AM   #187
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Maybe we need to have two threads for each SHIELD episode, the john4200 version, and the other one without john4200 where we can actually talk about the episode.

Or y'all could just stop taking the troll bait!
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:41 PM   #188
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Way longer ago, she was on "The Single Guy" with Jonathan Silverman.
(I also saw her on ER, but I still think of her as from "The Single Guy" because that's where I first saw her.)
Actually, you're both right.

I didn't go check the dates, but she was on the *first* season or two of "er", and had an entertaining rivalry with Noah Wyle's character (John Carter). She left for at least several seasons (and did "The Single Guy").. then came BACK to "er" for many more seasons.. (I don't know if she lasted all the way through the end.. Ironically, even though "er" is one of my favorite shows of all time, I have a couple of seasons near the end unwatched -- back then I only had 1 or 2 tuners, and Tivos *couldn't* deal with "er"s annoying scheduling + padding properly, so at some point I chose to keep recording the 9pm show and I'd "get back" to er at some point. I still intend to, hopefully when Amazon has a full series set at some ridiculously low price.. $10-20/season aggregated.)

I thought it was very interesting to see 'root' from "Person of Interest" on this show. Wow, she can act! Somewhat joking, but she was totally different than her root character. Even when the root character pretends to show emotion or something to get her way.
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:07 AM   #189
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Thanks all, I don't recall May on ER but I am quite sure now it was Eureka that I recall her so well in.
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:35 AM   #190
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I thought it was very interesting to see 'root' from "Person of Interest" on this show. Wow, she can act! Somewhat joking, but she was totally different than her root character. Even when the root character pretends to show emotion or something to get her way.
Check her out in Joss Whedon's "Much Ado About Nothing," or her role as Fred/Illyria on "Angel."
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Old 04-26-2014, 03:36 PM   #191
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... or her role as Fred/Illyria on "Angel."
"A Hole in the World" is still one of the most incredible, heart breaking, and often overlooked TV episodes of all time.
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:51 PM   #192
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Check her out in Joss Whedon's "Much Ado About Nothing," or her role as Fred/Illyria on "Angel."
*sniff*
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Old 04-26-2014, 08:10 PM   #193
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She absolutely could not "afford" a few minutes of "meltdown". It is not at all rational to behave in that way. Her life was in danger. She needed to flee or to find weapons to fight with. She did neither. That is not logical. But many people would behave in such an irrational manner under the circumstances.
As long as he doesn't know that she knows, she's safe, because he needs her alive and well and in a certain location to de-crypt that hard drive (which apparently has a built-in, non-defeatable, GPS).

This way she gets to keep tabs on him.

But yeah, she should have climbed up there to see if he had a gun or something else worth "commandeering" .
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Old 04-26-2014, 08:20 PM   #194
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She had a penny dropped moment.
Ward had already been talking about the hard drive, talked about "us", had kissed her and he didn't have a wound on his neck so he couldn't have opened it.

And Melinda left a one way exit track in the snow. Previous tracks had been negated by the falling snow.

But what I want to know is - exactly how did Skye leave a message for the team in the bathroom?

I see what you did there.


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Old 04-27-2014, 08:17 AM   #195
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She absolutely could not "afford" a few minutes of "meltdown". It is not at all rational to behave in that way. Her life was in danger. She needed to flee or to find weapons to fight with. She did neither. That is not logical.
Wrong.

And if you had chosen the fight or flee option you would deserve a pink slip for cowardice, incompetence and a narrow minded faliure of logic.

What she needs to do is to leave a note for the rest of the team and then attach herself to Ward to identify people higher up in the HYDRA organisation than Ward.

What would be outstanding is if she held on to her lanyard and Fitz Simmons could find a way to track it at long range.
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:49 AM   #196
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Wrong.
Sorry, you are the wrong one. We all are. Only the all-mighty seer and master of the truth is ever correct.

There, I just saved you from a lot of pointless arguing.
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:11 AM   #197
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Sorry, you are the wrong one. We all are.
Don't feel bad, we all just fail at television comprehension. We constantly misunderstand things. It's only natural that given our poor skills we come to the wrong conclusions, time and time again.

I don't even know why we own televisions.
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:15 AM   #198
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Wrong. And if you had chosen the fight or flee option you would deserve a pink slip for cowardice, incompetence and a narrow minded faliure of logic. What she needs to do is to leave a note for the rest of the team and then attach herself to Ward to identify people higher up in the HYDRA organisation than Ward. What would be outstanding is if she held on to her lanyard and Fitz Simmons could find a way to track it at long range.
If she chose to fight, she'd probably be dead. That's logic for you.

The funniest part is that the purveyor of this logic is using fight or flight which is an instinctive choice, not a logical one.
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:22 AM   #199
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If she chose to fight, she'd probably be dead.
Ward needed her alive, so she wouldn't have wound up dead. She didn't know that though.
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:29 AM   #200
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Sorry, you are the wrong one. We all are. Only the all-mighty seer and master of the truth is ever correct.
But if you say that, you must be wrong as well.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:26 PM   #201
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*sniff*
I can't believe it's coming up on the 10th anniversary of Angel's last episode next month.

The scene between Wesley and Illyria/Fred is one of my favorite scene's in the Buffyverse.



Quote:
ILLYRIA
Wesley.
(inspects his wound)
This wound is mortal.

WESLEY
(he touches his wound)
Aren't we all?
(looks at her, smiles)
It was good... that you came.

ILLYRIA
I killed all mine, and I was...

WESLEY
Concerned?

ILLYRIA
I think so. But I can't help. You'll be dead within moments.

WESLEY
I know.

ILLYRIA
Would you like me to lie to you now?

WESLEY
(looks at her weakly)
Yes.
(closes his eyes in a slow, pained blink)
Thank you. Yes.
(opens his eyes to see Fred's face, her hand stroking his cheek)
Hello there.

FRED
(trying to smile through her tears)
Oh, Wesley. My Wesley.

WESLEY
Fred.
(whispering)
I've missed you.

FRED
(kisses his lips twice gently, sniffles, kisses his forehead)
It's gonna be OK. It won't hurt much longer, and then you'll be where I am.
(crying)
We'll be together.

WESLEY
I—I love you.

FRED
(smiles through her tears)
I love you. My love. Oh, my love.

Wesley only stares motionless, lifeless in her arms. She lets him go, gently placing his head on the floor. Illyria as Fred blinks slowly and sighs through gritted teeth before getting to her feet. Vail is conscious and on his feet again, standing behind Illyria.

VAIL
(approaching Illyria)
How very touching his meaningless death was, but this fight was never for mortals.
(groans as Illyria turns to face him angrily, in the form of Fred)
Oh.
(chuckles)
Take your best shot, little girl.

Illyria swings a powerful punch at Vail's head, transforming her shape from Fred to blue Illyria in mid-swing, ultimately shattering Vail's head with the force of her swing.

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Old 04-27-2014, 10:40 PM   #202
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I just watched this episode, and came to this thread, seeing 7 pages, and thought the discussion was good. My mistake. Let's see if putting john4200 on ignore helps in the future.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:01 PM   #203
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You keep acting like she's a MAN. She's not. She's a woman. There are fundamental differences in how each gender reacts. You may not be aware but all of your complaints are that she didn't act as a man would have in the same situation.

Women don't process data linearly as men do. They have far more connections in the brain processing data simultaneously, and this leads them to "intuitive" leaps that skip over logical progression steps that men follow (this often confuses men).

Ward told her that Melinda was gone, and that Koenig was fine. She had no reason to doubt this information, so regardless of "what order" those two events actually occurred, in her mind, she, Ward and Koenig were now the only people in the secure facility.

Ward has blood on his neck. When it is discovered he acts strangely. It's not where any of his previous wounds were (and I guarantee you she knows where all of his hurts were. Women do that, it's normal to them). He doesn't allow her to treat it, even though he was ok with that earlier. This is odd, and there's not a woman on the planet who wouldn't immediately put that in the "that's strange..." bucket. It will percolate on one of the background channels, below conscious thought, but they have dozens of communication channels between the hemispheres of the brain and it won't go away.

She finds Koenig. He's bleeding. From above. Blood falls on her. She, Ward and Koenig were the only people in the building. Koenig is stored (in an admittedly stupid place) in a way where his blood would drop on anybody who might be near him. Ward had blood on his neck that surprised him and wouldn't let her see. Ergo, Ward. The "that's strange.." bucket moves to the forefront and clicks with the other data. She doesn't need to step through the sequence of events to come to a conclusion like you or I would. She's a woman. The data itself is sufficient. The clues have come bubbling up in her head, without names or words, to form an impression, a result that she probably can't actually explain how she arrived at right that second, but there it is.

She sets a test. Ward fails the test. First, he knew the penny should be there. Second, he lied about Koenig. There's no doubt now.

So now what? What should she do?

Flee... into the snow where she is unprotected and will likely not survive? She doesn't have Melinda Mays survival skills. She would discount that immediately. She can't hide out in the building. Ward has superior training for exactly such a scenario.

Fight... Ward? Who trained her and is better than her in every possible combat scenario? Nonsense. She can't win.

No, she does what women have always done when faced with that scenario. Be quiet, pretend nothing has happened, try not to arouse suspicion, await an opportunity. Women throughout history have known they can not win in a direct frontal assault on a man. This isn't news to any of them. Barring significant physical training which Skye does not have, it's a pointless exercise. All it will do is alert Ward to her suspicions and likely cause her pain. So she protects herself by pretending nothing is wrong. Make yourself small. Don't let him think of you as a threat. Try to avoid angering him. In many ways it's like having an abusive boyfriend/husband.

This is perfectly rational and in character for a female character.

Or to put it another way - "Sure, let's go. Absolutely. Whatever you want. You've got to sleep sometime".
I am months late to the party. I had to skim a lot of this thread for obvious reasons, but this is brilliant right here, along with Ereth's other post about the differences in make and female brains.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:54 AM   #204
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I am months late to the party. I had to skim a lot of this thread for obvious reasons, but this is brilliant right here, along with Ereth's other post about the differences in make and female brains.
Google "girl with nail in head" for a video that also illustrates the different approaches to problems often taken.


The only reason to skim this thread, btw, is to avoid spoilers if you haven't seen the episode yet.

There is no other excuse which justifies your denying yourself the wit and wisdom of your fellow TCF'ers.
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