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Old 04-24-2014, 03:49 PM   #121
john4200
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Originally Posted by JoBeth66 View Post
No reason to think she'd turn into a quivering mass of jelly that wouldn't be capable of a reasonable conclusion in a very short span of time.
No reason at all, except, you know, that she actually did end up shaking and sobbing on the floor in the bathroom.

Not to mention all the instances of poor judgment Skye has demonstrated in past episodes.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:55 PM   #122
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No reason at all, except, you know, that she actually did end up shaking and sobbing on the floor in the bathroom.
AFTER she realized the predicament she was in, and got to a place of relative safety where she could afford a few minutes of meltdown while she marshaled her strength. And she got it all out of her system in an amazingly short amount of time that "most people" in her situation wouldn't have been able to manage.

Then, on top of that, she was able to be collected enough to face the killer/traitor and act like nothing had happened in order to protect herself and the rest of the team.

"Most people" wouldn't have been able to do that, either.

So, no, I didn't miss your point. I just disagree with it and I believe that Skye acted absolutely within character and reasonably for the situation in which she found herself.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:55 PM   #123
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3) Maybe we (including me) don't give a damn about it other than to watch the very entertaining argument that ensued.
Yeah, I am going to have to disagree with the very entertaining part. Unless you find sticking needles in your eye socket entertaining.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:01 PM   #124
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AFTER she realized the predicament she was in, and got to a place of relative safety where she could afford a few minutes of meltdown ...
She absolutely could not "afford" a few minutes of "meltdown". It is not at all rational to behave in that way. Her life was in danger. She needed to flee or to find weapons to fight with. She did neither. That is not logical. But many people would behave in such an irrational manner under the circumstances.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:25 PM   #125
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She absolutely could not "afford" a few minutes of "meltdown". It is not at all rational to behave in that way. Her life was in danger. She needed to flee or to find weapons to fight with. She did neither. That is not logical. But many people would behave in such an irrational manner under the circumstances.
Of course she could afford it. She knew exactly where Ward was, and he couldn't sneak up on her. She had to get it out of her system so she could move forward.

Where was she going to flee to in the middle of the Canadian wilderness? Fleeing would have been irrational. Ward would've tracked her down and killed her in no time.

Weapons? She's going to take up weapons against one the best trained agents they have, when her best weapon is her intelligence? That would be irrational.

Nope. What she did wasn't at all irrational. It was completely in keeping with her character and her experiences. It's quite obvious.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:29 PM   #126
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You keep acting like she's a MAN. She's not. She's a woman. There are fundamental differences in how each gender reacts. You may not be aware but all of your complaints are that she didn't act as a man would have in the same situation.

Women don't process data linearly as men do. They have far more connections in the brain processing data simultaneously, and this leads them to "intuitive" leaps that skip over logical progression steps that men follow (this often confuses men).

Ward told her that Melinda was gone, and that Koenig was fine. She had no reason to doubt this information, so regardless of "what order" those two events actually occurred, in her mind, she, Ward and Koenig were now the only people in the secure facility.

Ward has blood on his neck. When it is discovered he acts strangely. It's not where any of his previous wounds were (and I guarantee you she knows where all of his hurts were. Women do that, it's normal to them). He doesn't allow her to treat it, even though he was ok with that earlier. This is odd, and there's not a woman on the planet who wouldn't immediately put that in the "that's strange..." bucket. It will percolate on one of the background channels, below conscious thought, but they have dozens of communication channels between the hemispheres of the brain and it won't go away.

She finds Koenig. He's bleeding. From above. Blood falls on her. She, Ward and Koenig were the only people in the building. Koenig is stored (in an admittedly stupid place) in a way where his blood would drop on anybody who might be near him. Ward had blood on his neck that surprised him and wouldn't let her see. Ergo, Ward. The "that's strange.." bucket moves to the forefront and clicks with the other data. She doesn't need to step through the sequence of events to come to a conclusion like you or I would. She's a woman. The data itself is sufficient. The clues have come bubbling up in her head, without names or words, to form an impression, a result that she probably can't actually explain how she arrived at right that second, but there it is.

She sets a test. Ward fails the test. First, he knew the penny should be there. Second, he lied about Koenig. There's no doubt now.

So now what? What should she do?

Flee... into the snow where she is unprotected and will likely not survive? She doesn't have Melinda Mays survival skills. She would discount that immediately. She can't hide out in the building. Ward has superior training for exactly such a scenario.

Fight... Ward? Who trained her and is better than her in every possible combat scenario? Nonsense. She can't win.

No, she does what women have always done when faced with that scenario. Be quiet, pretend nothing has happened, try not to arouse suspicion, await an opportunity. Women throughout history have known they can not win in a direct frontal assault on a man. This isn't news to any of them. Barring significant physical training which Skye does not have, it's a pointless exercise. All it will do is alert Ward to her suspicions and likely cause her pain. So she protects herself by pretending nothing is wrong. Make yourself small. Don't let him think of you as a threat. Try to avoid angering him. In many ways it's like having an abusive boyfriend/husband.

This is perfectly rational and in character for a female character.

Or to put it another way - "Sure, let's go. Absolutely. Whatever you want. You've got to sleep sometime".
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:34 PM   #127
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She knew exactly where Ward was, and he couldn't sneak up on her.
She did not know exactly where Ward was, because she was sobbing and shaking, not watching the screen.

Where was she going to flee? How about the same place Melinda went?

Of course she would need weapons to fight Ward. Do you think she can beat him hand to hand? And why do you assume she must "take up" weapons? In her situation, it would be smarter to find a weapon that could be deployed against him while she distracted or tricked him.

Either of those approaches is far more effective than sobbing in the bathroom. Any rational person would take action to protect themselves.

Only an irrational (or insane) person would think sobbing on the floor in the bathroom is a logical thing to do. But many people would become emotional and irrational under such circumstances, so such behavior is not surprising.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:35 PM   #128
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This is perfectly rational and in character for a female character.

Or to put it another way - "Sure, let's go. Absolutely. Whatever you want. You've got to sleep sometime".


Exactly. You get it!
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:37 PM   #129
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Or to put it another way - "Sure, let's go. Absolutely. Whatever you want. You've got to sleep sometime".
Also, she can covertly attempt to inform the rest of her team about Ward.

Running off into the wilderness or confronting Ward just leaves her captured, confined, and unable to act. Playing along with him leaves her a few opportunities.

The question is - does he know that she knows? I think he does.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:40 PM   #130
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Women don't process data linearly as men do. They have far more connections in the brain processing data simultaneously, and this leads them to "intuitive" leaps that skip over logical progression steps that men follow (this often confuses men).
Do you have a woman's brain?
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:41 PM   #131
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Running off into the wilderness or confronting Ward just leaves her captured, confined, and unable to act.
Actually, fleeing leaves her with Melinda. Disabling Ward leaves him captured, confined, and her in control. Sobbing in the bathroom wastes time.

As you say, Ward could have figured out she knows. In which case she will not get the chance to capture him in his sleep.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:45 PM   #132
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She did not know exactly where Ward was, because she was sobbing and shaking, not watching the screen.
She had the screen. She knew when he was close by. He wasn't when she went into the bathroom. She had a few minutes to just react.

You have no clue how women think, clearly.

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Where was she going to flee? How about the same place Melinda went?
She has no idea where Melinda went. She doesn't even know if Melinda is still alive. She doesn't have Melinda's field skills. Fleeing would be irrational.

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Of course she would need weapons to fight Ward. Do you think she can beat him hand to hand?
It's easy to argue against points you make up out of whole cloth, isn't it?

I never said anything about her fighting him hand to hand.

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And why do you assume she must "take up" weapons? In her situation, it would be smarter to find a weapon that could be deployed against him while she distracted or tricked him.
Um, that's what "take up" weapons means. Your reading comprehension is still off. He's a trained, skilled fighter - one of the best. She's not. Going against him on her own is irrational and would be suicide.

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Either of those approaches is far more effective than sobbing in the bathroom. Any rational person would take action to protect themselves.
Exactly what she did. She got past her initial reaction, got it out of her system, and came up with a plan to protect herself.

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Only an irrational (or insane) person would think sobbing on the floor in the bathroom is a logical thing to do. But many people would become emotional and irrational under such circumstances, so such behavior is not surprising.
And yet you're surprised by it.

Her reactions are perfectly reasonable and logical to me, and they make sense. Ereth has it exactly right. You don't understand women.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:45 PM   #133
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Disabling Ward leaves him captured, confined, and her in control. Sobbing in the bathroom wastes time.
I think you either failed to read or failed to process Ereth's post.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:46 PM   #134
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The only winning move is not to play.
I thought Captain America spoilers were off limits in these threads for now?
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:47 PM   #135
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I thought Captain America spoilers were off limits in these threads for now?
I was intending to spoil WarGames.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:47 PM   #136
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I think you either failed to read or failed to process Ereth's post.
I think you failed to consider other possibilities.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:47 PM   #137
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Actually, fleeing leaves her with Melinda.
How.

When she discovered the body, where was Melinda? How long had Melinda been gone? How long did SKYE know Melinda was gone? When she was in the bathroom, where was Melinda? Do you know? If you don't know, how on earth would SHE know? She has no idea which direction Melinda went, or where her ultimate destination was.

You're not thinking rationally.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:48 PM   #138
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I think you failed to consider other possibilities.
I considered them, but in this case Ereth is simply right.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:49 PM   #139
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I think you failed to consider other possibilities.
No, the only one who appears to have failed to consider other possibilities is you.

You've made up your mind that whatever you think is the only logical thing to think, and anyone who disagrees with you is simply not seeing things correctly.

When was the last time YOU considered other possibilities?
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:51 PM   #140
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Um, that's what "take up" weapons means. Your reading comprehension is still off. He's a trained, skilled fighter - one of the best. She's not. Going against him on her own is irrational and would be suicide.
Your logical thinking is still off. A rational person can think of a number of weapons that can be used without "taking them up". Sobbing in the bathroom when someone is possibly going to kill you in a few minutes is irrational and could be suicide. Searching for weapons to protect oneself or take out the opponent is rational and would be smart.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:53 PM   #141
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When was the last time YOU considered other possibilities?
During the writing of my last post.

Each person is entitled to their own opinion. But each person is not entitled to their own logic. Logic is absolute. That is what we were discussing.

There is no logic where sitting in a bathroom and sobbing is logical. It is emotional and irrational.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:56 PM   #142
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Your logical thinking is still off. A rational person can think of a number of weapons that can be used without "taking them up".
What does 'taking up weapons' mean to you? Because you're clearly not understanding them in context.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:56 PM   #143
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And you are not even aware of the huge assumption you just made. So sad.
No assumption. Reading exactly what you wrote.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:57 PM   #144
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How long had Melinda been gone? How long did SKYE know Melinda was gone? When she was in the bathroom, where was Melinda? Do you know? If you don't know, how on earth would SHE know?
You failed to consider Ereth's female brain.

Skye's female brain would obviously know the answer to those questions in the same way she instantly knew that Ward was the killer and traitor, not Melinda.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:58 PM   #145
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No assumption.
Yes, WE ALL know that you are not aware of the huge assumption you made in that post.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:59 PM   #146
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Yeah, I am going to have to disagree with the very entertaining part. Unless you find sticking needles in your eye socket entertaining.
Doesn't everyone? If they don't say they don't, then they must.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:01 PM   #147
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What does 'taking up weapons' mean to you? Because you're clearly not understanding them in context.
You have failed to consider other possibilities.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:02 PM   #148
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Reminds me of the lecture we got on what constitutes "reasonable" in another thread. And whom gave that lecture.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:05 PM   #149
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Reminds me of the lecture we got on what constitutes "reasonable" in another thread. And whom gave that lecture.
Reminds me of the confused post #14 in this thread that started the whole debate. And whom made that post.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:05 PM   #150
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You failed to consider Ereth's female brain.

Skye's female brain would obviously know the answer to those questions in the same way she instantly knew that Ward was the killer and traitor, not Melinda.
It's probably easier if you just admit you have no clue. But in case you don't get it, let me spell it out for you.

She wouldn't know the answer to those questions, she didn't have the information.

She knew Ward was the killer because she had all the information she needed to figure it out.

You're welcome.
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