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Old 04-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by JoBeth66 View Post
Disagree.
And a fifth one completely misses the point.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:55 PM   #92
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An argument could be made that they'd be better off just being slaves to Hydra.



SHIELD, by the way, is an acronym, hence the capitals (more properly S.H.I.E.L.D.). Hydra is just a word.
Since S.H.I.E.L.D is a terrorist organization now, and the Government is going to need some sort of intelligence/security agency, do you think we'll get H.A.M.M.E.R. next?
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:55 PM   #93
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How did Melinda May get back to civilization? It is supposed to be extremely remote and secret and all. I just don't think she could have walked.
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Anyone else taken aback when May leaves the secret outpost and just walks out the door. The next time we see her she is walking on a highway with no snow to meet her mom. Did May walk all that way? Wow, she is a fast walker and has great endurance!!!
Gerry
That was my point. Even within the usually unbelievable SHIELD universe I thought this was totally ridiculous!! First we see May walking out of the outpost in a heavy coat and in the snow. And the next time we see her she is walking without a jacket and there's no snow on the ground, and while nothing is explicitly said it seems that very little time passed. Silly!!!

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Old 04-24-2014, 01:56 PM   #94
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And a fifth one completely misses the point.
One might conjecture that if every single person misses your point that one of two possibilities exist:

1) You didn't make your point very well

or

2) Your point is just wrong and nobody agrees with you.

Take your pick.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:57 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Ereth View Post
One might conjecture that if every single person misses your point that one of two possibilities exist:

1) You didn't make your point very well

or

2) Your point is just wrong and nobody agrees with you.

Take your pick.
3) Your conjectures are worthless and you just want to make a personal attack
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:59 PM   #96
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3) Your conjectures are worthless and you just want to make a personal attack
Which part of that was a personal attack?

If you are the only person on the planet who understands your point, it stands to reason that you haven't expressed your point well, does it not?

If others DO understand your point, but still argue against you, it stands to reason that they believe you are in error, does it not?
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:05 PM   #97
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SHIELD, by the way, is an acronym, hence the capitals (more properly S.H.I.E.L.D.). Hydra is just a word.
It's funny, because I do see it written both ways. Even the Wikipedia article on Hydra has it capitalized in the header and just the capital H in the body. But you're definitely correct that Marvel themselves only use the capital H spelling. Now I'm curious where the all-caps version comes from.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:29 PM   #98
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If you are the only person on the planet who understands your point, it stands to reason that you haven't expressed your point well, does it not?

If others DO understand your point, but still argue against you, it stands to reason that they believe you are in error, does it not?
3) Many people do understand the simple point, which was clearly expressed, and they agree with it. So they have nothing to post.

I first wrote: "I was surprised that Skye did not think, even for a second, that the traitor might be Melinda. The evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive, but I did not expect Skye to be so rational about it so quickly."

Later, I responded to the assertion that Skye subconsciously put things together in the few seconds between finding the dead body and saying "Ward" with: "Which is quite an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly in such a situation, given natural biases, the complexity of the evidence, and the stress of finding a colleague's dead body."

If you think this point was expressed unclearly, we might conjecture that the problem is with your reading comprehension, and not the point as expressed.

As for disagreeing with the point, it is certainly possible that a reasonable person could disagree. Such a person might argue that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.

But arguing about the details of the evidence for Ward being the killer is not disagreeing with my point, which, by the way, included the phrase "the evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive".
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:36 PM   #99
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SHIELD, by the way, is an acronym, hence the capitals (more properly S.H.I.E.L.D.).
I thought they just didn't know how to use capslock (which wouldn't be surprising given their general ineptitude).
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:37 PM   #100
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3) Many people do understand the simple point, which was clearly expressed, and they agree with it. So they have nothing to post.
4) many people have you on ignore.

5) those who don't have you on ignore recognize the futility of arguing with you.

ETA: most of all, I think you underestimate the number of people who simply don't care. The point you're making is not particularly important. As an audience, we're clearly shown the order of events that leads Skye to realize Ward is a double agent. Whether or not Skye's realization is reasonable and realistic given the time frame is utterly and completely unimportant given a universe with superheroes, gods, and aliens.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:37 PM   #101
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And a fifth one completely misses the point.
Maybe you can clarify this point for those of us who don't occupy the rarified space in the atmosphere in which you seem to reside.

I responded to the post you made. I can only respond to what you write.

Here, let me make it clearer for you. You said

Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200
Which is quite an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly in such a situation, given natural biases, the complexity of the evidence, and the stress of finding a colleague's dead body. Which was my original point.
I disagree that it's an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly.

I disagree that the evidence is "complex".

I disagree that the "stress of finding the dead body" would result in Skye being unable to think clearly.

She's demonstrated the ability to think clearly and quickly under pressure in the past, why would you think she would be unable to do so at this juncture?

She saw Ward's blip on the screen. She saw Koenig's blip on the screen. She saw Koenig's dead body. She knew that May was no longer in the base, because May's blip wasn't on the screen. Whoever hid the body did so in such a way that they would have a reasonable expectation that if the body was found they would KNOW it was found. Since May wasn't in the building, Skye could rule her out as a suspect pretty much instantaneously - May would have had no reason to set up the scene that way, since she was gone and wouldn't have cared if anyone found the body.

The only LOGICAL answer is Ward. And you can get to that pretty quickly, even under stress.

Not rocket science.

So, which point did we all miss?

ETA - You sent your post to Ereth while I was composing mine. I didn't miss your point at all. I just completely disagree with the point you made. Not the same thing. And from reading everyone else's replies, I don't think they missed your point either, they just also completely disagree with you.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:49 PM   #102
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So, which point did we all miss?
Most people got the point. It is only you and a few others who missed it, as demonstrated by arguing about the details of the evidence, rather than about the person and the stressful situation.

In your latest post, you seem to be considering making an argument that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.

But I did not see much support for such an assertion. You said that Ward was the logical answer. I obviously agree with a rational person concluding that Ward is the prime suspect, as I said as much in my original post. But I see no reason to believe that most people would be so rational, so quickly, in such a situation. In my experience, most people behave irrationally much of the time, even in ordinary circumstances, especially when it involves feelings about people. In stressful circumstances, most people behave even more irrationally. Skye behaved in a manner that was quite unusual for most people.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:54 PM   #103
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3) Many people do understand the simple point, which was clearly expressed, and they agree with it. So they have nothing to post.

I first wrote: "I was surprised that Skye did not think, even for a second, that the traitor might be Melinda. The evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive, but I did not expect Skye to be so rational about it so quickly."

Later, I responded to the assertion that Skye subconsciously put things together in the few seconds between finding the dead body and saying "Ward" with: "Which is quite an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly in such a situation, given natural biases, the complexity of the evidence, and the stress of finding a colleague's dead body."

If you think this point was expressed unclearly, we might conjecture that the problem is with your reading comprehension, and not the point as expressed.

As for disagreeing with the point, it is certainly possible that a reasonable person could disagree. Such a person might argue that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.

But arguing about the details of the evidence for Ward being the killer is not disagreeing with my point, which, by the way, included the phrase "the evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive".
Speaking of reading comprehension skills...

I didn't respond to your point. Not at all. I responded to your constant "yet another person who miss the point entirely" series of posts.

Arguing that the problem is MY reading comprehension is a complete and total misrepresentation of the facts in evidence. I didn't say one word about your position on the show, only that you seemed to have an awful lot of people who you claimed were missing your point. And instead of trying to make your point clearer, you simply started a tally.

I don't see anything in your response to me on that topic. Can you explain why?
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:55 PM   #104
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5) those who don't have you on ignore recognize the futility of arguing with you.
So, you are saying that you are incapable of recognizing futility that you assert many others have recognized?

I had thought your more perceptive than that.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:56 PM   #105
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And instead of trying to make your point clearer, you simply started a tally.

I don't see anything in your response to me on that topic. Can you explain why?
The point was already abundantly clear.

In a way that you are capable of understanding? Probably not.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:59 PM   #106
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In a way that you are capable of understanding? Probably not.
So you admit that you did not respond to the point I made.

You accused me of a personal attack, yet when asked what personal attack that was, you avoided the question.

When asked to explain why you completely ignored the content of my post to you and posted something unrelated to what I was talking about, you chose to insult me rather than answer the question.

Is it any wonder so many people have you on ignore?
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:59 PM   #107
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So you admit that you did not respond to the point I made.
Wrong again.

And you make a personal attack on me, and then accuse me of insulting you? Incredible.

Is it any wonder so many people think you argue incessantly over nothing?
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:00 PM   #108
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Wrong again.
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:07 PM   #109
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So, you are saying that you are incapable of recognizing futility that you assert many others have recognized?

I had thought your more perceptive than that.
His what is more perceptive?


Your intellectual "high ground" has now been eroded. You're just a grammar-ignorant internet troll now.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:08 PM   #110
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3) Many people do understand the simple point, which was clearly expressed, and they agree with it. So they have nothing to post.
3) Those of us who have not weighed in on your point are NOT to be assumed to agree. Maybe we (including me) don't give a damn about it other than to watch the very entertaining argument that ensued.

You are counting those who have not posted about your point on your side. A very bad assumption.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:09 PM   #111
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3) Those of us who have not weighed in on your point are NOT to be assumed to agree. Maybe we (including me) don't give a damn about it other than to watch the very entertaining argument that ensued.

You are counting those who have not posted about your point on your side. A very bad assumption.
And you are not even aware of the huge assumption you just made. So sad.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:10 PM   #112
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Your intellectual "high ground" has now been eroded. You're just a grammar-ignorant internet troll now.
And your post adds so much to the discussion of this episode. You are clearly the complete opposite of an ignorant troll.

Now what was it you wanted to discuss, again?
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:12 PM   #113
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And your post adds so much to the discussion of this episode. You are clearly the complete opposite of an ignorant troll.

Now what was it you wanted to discuss, again?
Did you know that prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada?
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:13 PM   #114
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*Checks the sign on the door*

Excuse me. I thought I was in a TV show discussion thread. I seem to have wandered into the kindergarten playpen!

*Leaves*
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:30 PM   #115
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So, you are saying that you are incapable of recognizing futility that you assert many others have recognized?
Do you see me arguing with you? I merely pointed out the reasons why so few are engaging you.

I have no desire to debate you on whether or not Skye's actions are reasonable. I'll debate that with others, but it's pointless to debate it with you. The only winning move is not to play.

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I had thought your more perceptive than that.
you're.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:31 PM   #116
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Do you see me arguing with you?

you're
Do you see what you are posting as not arguing?

Actually, it was meant to be "you"
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:33 PM   #117
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Do you see what you are posting as not arguing?
This post intentionally left blank.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:38 PM   #118
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His what is more perceptive?


Your intellectual "high ground" has now been eroded. You're just a grammar-ignorant internet troll now.
Now?
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:42 PM   #119
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Did you know that prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada?
I am shocked -- shocked -- to find that prostitution is going on there.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:43 PM   #120
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Most people got the point. It is only you and a few others who missed it, as demonstrated by arguing about the details of the evidence, rather than about the person and the stressful situation.
Or maybe we just completely disagree with you.

It IS possible to have an opinion counter to yours and be capable of rational thought, hard as that seems to be for you to believe.

Quote:
In your latest post, you seem to be considering making an argument that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.
I did nothing of the sort. Your reading comprehension is clearly off. You should read what I wrote again and respond on point, rather than making things up.

I didn't "consider" making any argument about "most people".

I MADE an argument about SKYE'S reaction in Skye's situation.

She's already in a heightened state by dint of the fact that her entire world has been turned upside-down, yet again. She's running on adrenaline and lack of sleep and fear. She's in analytical mode as evidenced by her quick thinking on the satellites and hacking them. She's in her element.

No reason to think she'd turn into a quivering mass of jelly that wouldn't be capable of a reasonable conclusion in a very short span of time.

Quote:
But I did not see much support for such an assertion.
I can't help what you can't see. Your lack of sight does not indicate a blindness by someone else.

Quote:
You said that Ward was the logical answer. I obviously agree with a rational person concluding that Ward is the prime suspect, as I said as much in my original post. But I see no reason to believe that most people would be so rational, so quickly, in such a situation.
So? I see plenty of reason to believe that Skye (who is NOT "most people") would be so rational, so quickly, in exactly that situation.

In fact, we KNOW she was, because that's exactly the conclusion she came to. Q.E.D.

Quote:
In my experience, most people behave irrationally much of the time, even in ordinary circumstances, especially when it involves feelings about people. In stressful circumstances, most people behave even more irrationally. Skye behaved in a manner that was quite unusual for most people.
Skye is not most people, and we have no indication from her previous experiences that she would act like most people. I don't know why you keep insisting she should act the way you think she should act, and if she doesn't, well, clearly it's because the writers did it wrong, rather than you being unable to consider any other position.
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