TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > TiVo TV Talk > Now Playing - TV Show Talk
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-23-2014, 10:08 AM   #31
Gunnyman
Super FunBall
 
Gunnyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 29,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkL View Post
She a doctor was in the last couple seasons of ER. She's striking me as quite a bit hotter in this show though. Maybe I just like tough girls..
She's gotten much better looking as she got older.
Ming Na Wen is 50.
Hubba hubba
__________________
It's a sociological cornucopia of silliness.
Gamertag: GGwallen
Gunnyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 10:16 AM   #32
eddyj
Registered User
 
eddyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 47,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by martinp13 View Post
I was going to delete my Season Pass if she didn't put the penny back up on top of the door. The fact that she didn't immediately recognize it as a warning sign was disturbing enough.
Well, there was no reason to think much about it, just then. After finding Eric, it made a lot more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs View Post
Even more disturbing is the fact that super-spy Ward used such a clumsy and easily-defeated warning system...
He was in a rush, so give him that.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eddyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 11:27 AM   #33
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs View Post
Did she even know there was a traitor before Melinda left, Skye saw Ward & Eric's radar blips in the Death Closet, and then found Eric dead there?

I don't think there was ever any room for reasonable doubt...unless I'm not remembering it right, she found out there was a traitor when she found out that Ward had killed Eric.
You are not remembering it right. Skye did not see "Ward & Eric's radar blips in the Death Closet". Ward and Koenig's blips were in completely different locations (Ward was in the bathroom right next to Skye's blip).

And your logic is confused. All that is necessary for Melinda to be a suspect, logically, is that Koenig was not known to be alive after the time that Melinda was known to have left. And that criterion was met.

"when she found out that Ward had killed Eric" ?? What are you talking about?

Last edited by john4200 : 04-23-2014 at 11:46 AM.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 04:49 PM   #34
JYoung
Series 3
 
JYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by caslu View Post
You heard correctly that Triplett is the grandson of a Howling Commando, but are only assuming that it's Gabe Jones... could be any one of them really.
Knowing how TV works, Jones would be the first choice.
The other surviving Commandos are second choices.
Which is of interest since they seem to be grooming Triplett as the Ward replacement.

(Although being a Howling Commando wasn't a big help to Koenig )
__________________
Member of the TiVoShanan Fan Club!

"I aim to misbehave"
JYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:04 PM   #35
Gerryex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 721
Anyone else taken aback when May leaves the secret outpost and just walks out the door. The next time we see her she is walking on a highway with no snow to meet her mom. Did May walk all that way? Wow, she is a fast walker and has great endurance!!!

Gerry
Gerryex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #36
Doggie Bear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 223
With much of this episode set in Portland, I turned to my wife and asked, "Do you think Coulson will run across any wessen?"
Doggie Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:11 PM   #37
JYoung
Series 3
 
JYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
You are not remembering it right. Skye did not see "Ward & Eric's radar blips in the Death Closet". Ward and Koenig's blips were in completely different locations (Ward was in the bathroom right next to Skye's blip).

And your logic is confused. All that is necessary for Melinda to be a suspect, logically, is that Koenig was not known to be alive after the time that Melinda was known to have left. And that criterion was met.

"when she found out that Ward had killed Eric" ?? What are you talking about?
What Rob means that Ward confirmed it himself when he told Skye that he had already told Koenig that they were leaving when she already knew that he was dead.
__________________
Member of the TiVoShanan Fan Club!

"I aim to misbehave"
JYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:25 PM   #38
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYoung View Post
What Rob means that Ward confirmed it himself when he told Skye that he had already told Koenig that they were leaving when she already knew that he was dead.
Which makes no sense as a response to my point that Skye did not consider for a second that it could have been Melinda. The instant she saw Koenig's body, she concluded that Ward did it. She did not think even for a second that it might have been Melinda. Despite the fact that she has never liked Melinda, and she does like Ward -- she was just kissing him and telling him he was a good person. A lot of people would have first considered the one they did not like, who just mysteriously left, as the killer, and blocked out the possibility that the one they liked might have done it. But Skye immediately saw Ward as the killer and traitor. That says something important about her character, something that was not clear before this episode.

I agree that Ward saying he just talked to Koenig, when Skye had just seen his dead body, confirmed that Ward was the one. But I was talking about prior to that, before Skye got herself under control.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:35 PM   #39
kdmorse
Registered User
 
kdmorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 4,125
Now I have to go back and rewatch.

I swear Ward had mentioned that he had talked to Eric at a point in time *after* MM had left, and said so before Skye had found the body. Thus, when she found the body, it couldn't have been MM as the killer (unless the suspicion was that MM had returned). But I could well be misremembering.
__________________
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
"Stop slouching! It's two O'clock in the afternoon, PUT PANTS ON!"
"Statistically speaking, there are two Popes per square kilometer in Vatican City..."
kdmorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:41 PM   #40
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdmorse View Post
Now I have to go back and rewatch.

I swear Ward had mentioned that he had talked to Eric at a point in time *after* MM had left, and said so before Skye had found the body. Thus, when she found the body, it couldn't have been MM as the killer (unless the suspicion was that MM had returned). But I could well be misremembering.
Apparently you do need to rewatch. When Ward came into the room to tell Skye about Koenig sending the information to the CIA and that Melinda was gone, Ward gave no indication of the relative times of those events occurring.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:58 PM   #41
Graymalkin
Style and Panache
 
Graymalkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 48,078
I, too, thought Skye would immediately suspect Melinda and not Ward. Because that's how TV script writers work.
Graymalkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #42
Jagman_sl
Registered User
 
Jagman_sl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
Apparently you do need to rewatch. When Ward came into the room to tell Skye about Koenig sending the information to the CIA and that Melinda was gone, Ward gave no indication of the relative times of those events occurring.
He does seem to suggest that he just finished talking to Koenig before walking in the room.

When Ward and Skye are talking in the hallway after Skye has discovered Koenig's body she says they should tell Koenig that they're leaving and Ward tells her that he just spoke to Koenig and that he's on the way to open the hangar doors for them. That tells her beyond the shadow of a doubt that Ward did it.

Last edited by Jagman_sl : 04-23-2014 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Clarity...
Jagman_sl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:06 PM   #43
cmontyburns
Excellent.
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,532
She knew it was Ward from the fresh blood on his neck. Once she found Koenig dead, she connected the dots.
cmontyburns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:14 PM   #44
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagman_sl View Post
He does seem to suggest that he just finished talking to Koenig before walking in the room.
Actually, he does not. As I said, there is no indication of the relative time of the two events: Ward talking to Koenig, and Melinda leaving. Even if Ward did just talk to Koenig a few minutes before talking to Skye, there was no indication given that Melinda was certainly gone before then. For all Skye was told, it could be that Koenig, Melinda, and Ward were talking, Melinda said she was leaving, and then Koenig left with Melinda to walk her out and Ward came to Skye.

But all of this is rather beside the point that I originally made which is that Skye did not consider for even a second that Melinda might have been the killer and traitor. Skye saw Koenig's body, pauses briefly, and then says "Ward".
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:20 PM   #45
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmontyburns View Post
She knew it was Ward from the fresh blood on his neck. Once she found Koenig dead, she connected the dots.
You are missing the point. That would be a rational conclusion to draw from the available evidence. But it was not proof, especially since Skye had already appeared to accept Ward's explanation of his wound re-opening. Even if it were stronger evidence, my point stands that Skye concluded "Ward" within a few seconds of seeing Koenig's dead body, despite the fact that she was just kissing Ward and telling him he was a good person a few minutes ago, and despite Skye's animosity towards Melinda.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:29 PM   #46
cmontyburns
Excellent.
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
You are missing the point. That would be a rational conclusion to draw from the available evidence. But it was not proof, especially since Skye had already appeared to accept Ward's explanation of his wound re-opening. Even if it were stronger evidence, my point stands that Skye concluded "Ward" within a few seconds of seeing Koenig's dead body, despite the fact that she was just kissing Ward and telling him he was a good person a few minutes ago, and despite Skye's animosity towards Melinda.
I know you like to tell people in these threads that they're wrong, but you're going to have to take your own medicine this time. There were two points to the blood-on-the-neck scene:

1. Give Ward and Skye a reason to be separated so she could find Koenig;
2. Make sure Ward would be implicated, and not the absent Melinda.

You can argue that real people would not behave that way, or that it was poorly written (the scene you reference where Skye and Ward kissed was cringe-inducing), and you'd certainly have ground to stand on. But you seem to be arguing that the show did not justify Skye's conclusion that Ward killed Koenig, when of course it did. Again, there was that whole scene setting it up. This is not a Tom Clancy novel. It's instead one of the most underwritten things on TV. Plot points are set up and dealt with in just a few sentences and in brief scenes. This was actually one of the least-ridiculous things the show presented this week.
cmontyburns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:34 PM   #47
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmontyburns View Post
But you seem to be arguing that the show did not justify Skye's conclusion that Ward killed Koenig...
Wrong. I do not know how I could be more clear, but you keep missing the point.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 07:07 PM   #48
Jagman_sl
Registered User
 
Jagman_sl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
Actually, he does not. As I said, there is no indication of the relative time of the two events: Ward talking to Koenig, and Melinda leaving. Even if Ward did just talk to Koenig a few minutes before talking to Skye, there was no indication given that Melinda was certainly gone before then. For all Skye was told, it could be that Koenig, Melinda, and Ward were talking, Melinda said she was leaving, and then Koenig left with Melinda to walk her out and Ward came to Skye.

But all of this is rather beside the point that I originally made which is that Skye did not consider for even a second that Melinda might have been the killer and traitor. Skye saw Koenig's body, pauses briefly, and then says "Ward".
Granted, he doesn't give exact times for anything, but he does come across as being completely "in the know" with the others' whereabouts. He spoke with confidence that he knew exactly where Koenig was, which, to me at least, does suggest he had recently spoken to Koenig. I do see how you feel that May leaving right before a body was found should suggest that she could be the killer. But I think we're supposed to believe that Skye's instincts are maybe a little more finely honed than most anybody else's. TV trope...

Of course, if there's one thing that these threads have taught me it's that if somebody on a show guesses incorrectly they're an idiot, but if they do guess correctly it should have been impossible for them to do so. :-)
Jagman_sl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 09:10 PM   #49
JYoung
Series 3
 
JYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
Actually, he does not. As I said, there is no indication of the relative time of the two events: Ward talking to Koenig, and Melinda leaving. Even if Ward did just talk to Koenig a few minutes before talking to Skye, there was no indication given that Melinda was certainly gone before then. For all Skye was told, it could be that Koenig, Melinda, and Ward were talking, Melinda said she was leaving, and then Koenig left with Melinda to walk her out and Ward came to Skye.

But all of this is rather beside the point that I originally made which is that Skye did not consider for even a second that Melinda might have been the killer and traitor. Skye saw Koenig's body, pauses briefly, and then says "Ward".
Yes he does.
Ward clearly implies he was just talking to Koenig just before he came to see Skye (who he said was sending the Fridge information to the CIA) because it suits his purpose the best.

Now you could say that he missed an opportunity to frame May.

But don't forget that his objective is to get Skye out of the Providence Bunker with a minimum of fuss so that she can willingly decrypt the hard drive.

Ward wants Skye relaxed and trusting of him so he tells her that he just saw Koenig (in response to her query) talking to the other agencies so she doesn't wonder where Eric is.

He also tells her that May's gone so Skye doesn't wonder where she is either.
Embroiling Skye in a murder situation doesn't suit his objective so he doesn't push the blame on May.

So he implies that May left before he just saw Koenig.

Of course, Skye finds Koenig's body, remembers the blood on Ward's ,and concludes that he's a traitor before he can get her out of the bunker.

Now, she should consider the possibility that Ward also killed May but that's not going to help her much in her current situation.
__________________
Member of the TiVoShanan Fan Club!

"I aim to misbehave"
JYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 09:17 PM   #50
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYoung View Post
Yes he does.
No, there were no times given when Ward talked to Skye about those events. Assuming "just before" is not a time of an event. You could just as easily assume Ward talked to Melinda "just before" he talked to Skye, and he talked to Koenig "just before" he talked to Melinda. Or they could have been simultaneous. It is all assumption, since Ward gave no indication of the relative times of those events.

And you are completely missing the point, unless you think Skye actually memorized what Ward said and then played it back in her head and made a judgment call during the few seconds from when she found Koenig's dead body and when she concluded "Ward". And if you really think that is what is going on in that few seconds, then we don't have anything to talk about.

Last edited by john4200 : 04-23-2014 at 09:25 PM.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 09:47 PM   #51
Fl_Gulfer
Tivo's R Us
 
Fl_Gulfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Fl.Gulf
Posts: 1,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger View Post
Best line in the show...

Eric: "You are on a desert island and there's a box on the beach. What's in it?"
Simmons: "A Tardis"!
+1
__________________
65" Samsung 7100 LCD
40" Samsung LCD
32" Hitachi LCD
DirecTV Genie
2 DirecTV HR24 HD DVR
Fl_Gulfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 11:01 PM   #52
smbaker
Registered User
 
smbaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 14,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmontyburns View Post
I know you like to tell people in these threads that they're wrong, but you're going to have to take your own medicine this time.
Somehow I don't think that's going to work on him...

There's a limited number of people who could have killed Koenig. Ward's circumstances and behavior were suspicious. That's sufficient for a television character like Skye to assume that Ward is the killer and not Melinda May or bigfoot or some stealthy secret hydra boogeyman.

Personally, I think an average real person might have assumed that someone else had infiltrated the base rather than suddenly assuming her trusted friend, colleague, and love interest was a secret enemy double agent. But, these aren't real people. They're television characters.
__________________
1 Roamio Plus
2 Lifetime Premieres, 2 HDs, 2 S2DTs
1 Original Philips S1 from all the way back in 1999!
smbaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 11:48 PM   #53
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by smbaker View Post
Somehow I don't think that's going to work on him...
It is certainly not going to "work" by saying that an argument that I did not make was wrong. cmontyburns totally missed the point I was making, and then went on to "prove" that something he imagined I was saying was wrong.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 11:52 PM   #54
Peter000
Registered User
 
Peter000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Red Wing, MN
Posts: 17,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
It is certainly not going to "work" by saying that an argument that I did not make was wrong. cmontyburns totally missed the point I was making, and then went on to "prove" that something he imagined I was saying was wrong.
I think everyone "gets" what you're saying, it's just that they disagree or don't care.
Peter000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 11:55 PM   #55
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter000 View Post
I think everyone "gets" what you're saying, it's just that they disagree or don't care.
Since no less than three people have argued with my posts about the details of the evidence implicating Ward rather than addressing my point, it is quite obvious that not everyone "gets" it.

EDIT: add bitbyblit to the list, making at least four

Last edited by john4200 : 04-24-2014 at 12:26 AM.
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 11:59 PM   #56
NJChris
Moogs!
 
NJChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Riverdale, NJ USA
Posts: 4,175
OMG..... move on already.
__________________
xbox gamertag - zzaz
ps3 - zzaz
Nintendo ID: njchris
NJChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 12:01 AM   #57
john4200
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJChris View Post
OMG..... move on already.
What exactly do you mean by that?
john4200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 12:04 AM   #58
NJChris
Moogs!
 
NJChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Riverdale, NJ USA
Posts: 4,175

__________________
xbox gamertag - zzaz
ps3 - zzaz
Nintendo ID: njchris
NJChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 12:14 AM   #59
BitbyBlit
.
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmontyburns View Post
She knew it was Ward from the fresh blood on his neck. Once she found Koenig dead, she connected the dots.
On top of that, Ward was the only one that had real motive to kill Koenig right when he was getting surveillance video of the Fridge. We know Skye already thought it was weird that the video showed absolutely nothing going on, so seeing Koenig dead caused her realization of what had happened to fall into place.

Of course, "Ward" was just her initial gut reaction. While she was sobbing in the bathroom, she could very well have also considered May as a suspect. But she would have rejected May for two reasons:

1. May would only have wanted to cover up the surveillance video if she were covering for someone else. But why didn't Ward run into that person?

2. Why didn't May take the Bus? That would have been a great asset to Hydra.

But still, once she got over the shock of Ward most likely being a Hydra agent, she needed to confirm it.

That's why she watched his reaction when he opened the closet. Innocent Ward would have wondered what that penny was doing there, gone in, and discovered Koenig's body. But guilty Ward didn't want Skye to know Koenig was dead, so he acted like the penny was nothing interesting, and closed the closet before Skye could see inside.

And finally, to confirm her suspicions beyond any doubt whatsoever, she asked Ward specifically about Koenig, and his answer made his allegiance absolutely clear.
__________________
...there's a fine line between committing a felony and doing something really super cool. Sock, Reaper
BitbyBlit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 01:06 AM   #60
JYoung
Series 3
 
JYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter000 View Post
I think everyone "gets" what you're saying, it's just that they disagree or don't care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
Since no less than three people have argued with my posts about the details of the evidence implicating Ward rather than addressing my point, it is quite obvious that not everyone "gets" it.

EDIT: add bitbyblit to the list, making at least four
No, we're saying that with what was laid out, there's no real reason to consider May when it's Ward who lied to her.

If you want to play Johnny Cochran and get into the extreme minutia instead of seeing the big picture though, have at it.
__________________
Member of the TiVoShanan Fan Club!

"I aim to misbehave"

Last edited by JYoung : 04-24-2014 at 01:30 AM.
JYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |