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Old 03-10-2014, 10:25 AM   #1
GmanTiVo
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COAX vs CAT 5e on FIOS, which one is better?

I am looking to replace 3 VZ DVRs with a Roamio Pro & 2 Minis in the near furfure (waiting for the next round of deals). I currently own a 2TB OLED S3 w/LT as well

I have VZ FIOS, ONT to GigE Actiontec router. RG6 quad shielded COAX and CAT 5e from the router to the rest of the house. I also have 2 Actiontec Rev F wireless routers (I've been sitting on them for separate MoCa networking if needed)

The new TiVo units are to be placed in the same spot as the FIOS ones so there is existing COAX (obviously) and CAT 5e as well (2 home run to the GigE router, 1 via Linksys switch)

Is there a consensus on what is best to use speed/transfer/stream/response wise (Roamio > Minis) since all things equal MoCa (from reading various threads) is pretty much plug & play with the FIOS Actiontec

Thank you,

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Old 03-10-2014, 10:33 AM   #2
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Ethernet is preferred over MoCA, but with the given network demands of a Roamio + Minis, there should not be a noticeable difference between MoCA and Ethernet setups. Cat5e would only noticeably improve transfer speeds if you want to download shows to your computer.

Since you have Cat5e available at all locations, I'd use that. MoCA is a great alternative to those without wired Ethernet.
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:15 PM   #3
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Ethernet is preferred over MoCA, but with the given network demands of a Roamio + Minis, there should not be a noticeable difference between MoCA and Ethernet setups. Cat5e would only noticeably improve transfer speeds if you want to download shows to your computer.

Since you have Cat5e available at all locations, I'd use that. MoCA is a great alternative to those without wired Ethernet.
With your setup, I'd run cat5 tivo pro to the router to take advantage of the gigabit connection between the router and the roamio pro. I'd use moca between the minis and the tivo which likely will be a faster connection as the moca can move the video faster than the ethernet on the mini.

Other than transfer/streaming speeds, choice is mostly a matter of personal preference as either will be fine.
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:25 PM   #4
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I'd use moca between the minis and the tivo which likely will be a faster connection as the moca can move the video faster than the ethernet on the mini.
Considering the max video bitrate you can encounter for broadcast television is just over 19 Mbps, the upper limit of the Mini's 100 Mbps Ethernet port versus MoCA's theoretical 270 Mbps upper limit is valid, but irrelevant.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:54 PM   #5
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thank you
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:08 PM   #6
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Ethernet might be more reliable, but try MoCA for as much as you have built-in adapters for, and then Ethernet for everything else.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:10 AM   #7
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Ethernet might be more reliable, but try MoCA for as much as you have built-in adapters for, and then Ethernet for everything else.
Ohh, so you can mix & match? i.e. Roamio + 2 Minis can be:

Ethernet (R), Ethernet (M1), MoCa(M2)
Ethernet (R), MoCa(M1), MoCa(M2)
MoCa (R), Ethernet (M1), MoCa(M2)

good to know, ty
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by GmanTiVo View Post
Ohh, so you can mix & match? i.e. Roamio + 2 Minis can be:

Ethernet (R), Ethernet (M1), MoCa(M2)
Ethernet (R), MoCa(M1), MoCa(M2)
MoCa (R), Ethernet (M1), MoCa(M2)

good to know, ty
Yup. As long as the Roamio is plugged into both, OR there is a MoCA adapter to bridge the two networks. Then it's all one network that's bridged, so there's no reason you can't have both. In fact, my network uses Ethernet, MoCA, Powerline, and Wifi. If I control one of my Minis with my iPhone it goes Wifi>>>Ethernet>>>AV500>>>Ethernet>>>MoCA.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:06 AM   #9
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^^^ ty!

Now before I pull the trigger I have to figure out what is best, Pro + 3 Minis or if a Pro + 2 Minins + a Plus can be networked to work together

edit (to avoid confusion):
As in my original post, I have VZ FIOS ONT & GigE Actiontec router. RG6 quad shielded COAX and CAT 5e from the router to the rest of the house.
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Last edited by GmanTiVo : 03-13-2014 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:21 AM   #10
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Yup. As long as the Roamio is plugged into both, OR there is a MoCA adapter to bridge the two networks. Then it's all one network that's bridged, so there's no reason you can't have both. In fact, my network uses Ethernet, MoCA, Powerline, and Wifi. If I control one of my Minis with my iPhone it goes Wifi>>>Ethernet>>>AV500>>>Ethernet>>>MoCA.
The thread poster is on verizon fios with the actiontec router. This effectively provides a MOCA bridge between the coax and ethernet.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:03 PM   #11
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The thread poster is on verizon fios with the actiontec router. This effectively provides a MOCA bridge between the coax and ethernet.
Good call. Apparently I completely missed that they were using a FIOS router. Yeah, that would be the MoCA LAN bridge.
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:19 PM   #12
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I also have Verizon FiOS and decided to use MoCa for all the minis (3x) and my Roamio Plus is hooked directly into my router (I have 75/35 internet). I am having absolutely no issues using the existing MoCa setup and it made things A LOT easier.
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Old 03-15-2014, 09:05 AM   #13
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^^^ Good to know, many thanks, G
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:48 PM   #14
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I also have Verizon FiOS and decided to use MoCa for all the minis (3x) and my Roamio Plus is hooked directly into my router (I have 75/35 internet). I am having absolutely no issues using the existing MoCa setup and it made things A LOT easier.
Is the PLUS connected with Ethernet only with MoCA turned off? If it had both, it would create a loop, and through the balance of the universe out of whack... or something...
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:51 PM   #15
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With cat5, the blinking network lights were driving me nuts. I switched to MOCA and no more blinking lights.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:31 AM   #16
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Follow-up

on Sat I installed a Roamio Pro & 3 Minis. As originally mentioned I have VZ FIOS GigE Router/WiFi, Cat 5e and COAX going to all the places where the new TiVo units were going (replacing VZ DVRs & STB).

I took the lazy man route and asked what cables my wife would like to see (from wall outlet to TiVo device)...... it is all on MoCa

Connections:
FIOS ONT > Actiontec MI424WR GigE ROuter >COAX & Cat 5e (home run) >TiVo Roamio Pro

3 Minis <> COAX (with various VZ gigahertz splitters in the loop).

Install:
Roamio, various initial settings. When I ran Network Setup, was asked if I wanted to create a MoCa Network (VZ Actiontec router supports this), finished setup, guided setup, etc., once everthing was working fine I put the roamio in Standby and unplugged it.

From PC I rebooted the router.

5 Min later (got myself a beer ) plugged Roamio back in, exited Standby,.... all systems go.

One at a time I pluged in the Minis Power (already COAX connected), ren the respective setups.

I had 2 N02 and one C33 error codes pop up. I gnored them for the moment.

From PC I rebooted the router, and went for anothe beer

10 min. later, like magic, all Minis were up and running. One at a time i did a Connect to TiVo Service just to make sure the internet connection worked, it did and both My Shows and Watch Live TV worked properly.

Total time, 3 hours including Mcard activation.


Gman
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by GmanTiVo View Post
FIOS ONT > Actiontec MI424WR GigE ROuter >COAX & Cat 5e (home run) >TiVo Roamio Pro
Glad things are working. Any particular reason for the cat5 run to the Pro? Just coax would be plenty.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:07 PM   #18
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Glad things are working. Any particular reason for the cat5 run to the Pro? Just coax would be plenty.
Wasn't sure if redundancy was needed... the cat 5e was there (was plugged into my S3) so I used it and now a pita to get behind the furniture and unplug
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:57 AM   #19
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Slow Mini connectivity, reverting to all Ethernet

Lately I have been getting on all 3 Minis the circular thingy indicating the system is busy doing something (i.e accessing the Roamio or getting the stream from the Roamio) and am going to switch to using an Ethernet Network only.

For other reasons ia am also upgrading some of the cabling to Cat6 and Cat6a

Out of curiosity, is there a submenu on the Roamio & Minis which will show me access or transfer sppeds amonst the devices? I'd be curuois to see the difference.

Gman
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:03 AM   #20
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MoCA is a bus architecture. It's like the old days before switched ethernet. That means all the MoCA devices share the bandwidth, just like all wireless devices share the total wireless AP bandwidth. Shouldn't be an issue with just a couple devices, but the more you add, the further it gets divided. I have to believe MoCA overcomes some of the old bus topology problems. On the old coax ethernet, if one device messed up it could cause problems with every other device. Switched ethernet isolates issues to just that single device.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:13 PM   #21
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Wasn't sure if redundancy was needed... the cat 5e was there (was plugged into my S3) so I used it and now a pita to get behind the furniture and unplug
It's going to use one or the other... It can't connect to the same network with both, since that would cause a circular network pattern, which would cause some major problems. It can only use both if there's no other bridge between the two networks, in which case it's the bridge...
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by GmanTiVo View Post
Lately I have been getting on all 3 Minis the circular thingy indicating the system is busy doing something (i.e accessing the Roamio or getting the stream from the Roamio) and am going to switch to using an Ethernet Network only.

For other reasons ia am also upgrading some of the cabling to Cat6 and Cat6a

Out of curiosity, is there a submenu on the Roamio & Minis which will show me access or transfer sppeds amonst the devices? I'd be curuois to see the difference.

Gman

I was having similar issues with my Mini (I had both ethernet and coax into Plus). I thought I read somewhere that since the Fios router already has built in MoCa, connecting ethernet to the Plus while using MoCa connection to the Mini's caused issues. My solution was to unplug the ethernet. I have not had the issues since (2 days).

EDIT: Here is where I think I read about MoCa loops on the Tivo site:
Check the MoCA loops
1. You can only have one device creating the MoCA network. Verify that you have only one MoCA Network Adapter or MoCA-enabled TiVo DVR connected to your router.
2. Verify you have not accidentally connected both a coax cable and an Ethernet cable to a MoCA-enabled DVR on your MoCA network. Doing so automatically enables Bridge mode, and the TiVo DVR will attempt to create another MoCA network rather than use the current network.

Last edited by lemieuxfan67 : 05-03-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 05-04-2014, 12:36 AM   #23
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The Roamio Pro and Plus will Bridge Ethernet to MoCA or bridge MoCA to Ethernet. It will work both ways.

I recently set up all my MoCA capable Tivos to MoCA along with an Actiontec MoCA bridge with four GigE ports.
Even though I have several Actiontec MoCA routers supplied by FiOS gathering dust in my closet, I did not want to use them to get a GigE connection to my MoCA devices.
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:59 AM   #24
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Update:

I now have completed my CAT6a and CAT6 rewiring (Monoprice.com rocks) and removed the MoCa Bridge & all COAX connectios.
I no longer have any whatsoever latency, nor other connectivity, streaming, ect issues between the Roamio Pro and 3 Minis.

TiVo wiring:

FIOS ONT >> Actiontec MI424WR Gige Router in Basement->
-> 50' CAT 6a to Roamio Pro
-> 35' CAT 6a to Netgear ProSafe GS108 Gigabit switch =>
=> 25' CAT 6 to Mini 1
=> 50' CAT 6 to Mini 2
=> 100' CAT 6 to Mini 3

I also went into the MI424WR's advanced settings and deleted any COAX and COAX Bridge IP addresses, none left on my networks now.

I know the CAT 6a and CAT 6 are overkill but for a few bucks over 5e i figured i future proof everything.

of note, I had been experiencing some dropouts on my Sonos Connect and Sonos Amps after having created the MoCa Bridge with the Roamio Pro.... now all gone.

Gman
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:31 AM   #25
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I wonder why some people have issues with MoCA. In my setup whether using Ethernet or MoCA the results are the same. No latency issues and no connectivity or streaming issues.

Although I am not using the Actiontec router. Maybe that is the reason? I purchased an Actiontec GigE MoCA adapter. I don't like the Actiontec routers at all. I had messed around with one of the four AT routers I have gathering dust that FiOS gave me. But there was a reason I don't use them.
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:39 AM   #26
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I hear ya and am chucking it up to the FIOS Actiontecs being finicky. They need hands on tweeking, especially in QoS and in Static IP. Who knows btw, could be me overly messing around as well
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:35 PM   #27
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My MoCA flakes out once in a while, but generally it works fine. And it has to go through a bunch of splitters, I have no MoCA filter, and the cable wiring in my house has been added to and added to over the years...

The issues for MocA could be about the same for FIOS, although you don't have the MoCA filter issue.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:44 PM   #28
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I have FIOS internet configured for CAT5 output only, feeding my DLink wireless-N router directly. (No ActionTec router used.) The router is connected via wired Ethernet to my Tivo Premiere XL4, which provides the MoCa bridge for the rest of the house. Two computers (via Actiontec MoCa adapaters), another Tivo Premiere 4 and a TiVo Mini are all networked via MoCa from other rooms in the house, and I've had no problems since moving in last month.

[Edited 6/20/2014]
I should add that all of my coax connections are end-runs from a single (1GHz) 6-way splitter. Sometimes the number of in-line splitters can make a difference.
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