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Old 04-12-2014, 10:57 PM   #1
jon96cobra
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Series 3 freezing and reboots

I have been having one of my series 3 Tivo freeze and start working for a few minutes but the reboot. I'm trying to figure out if it was an update or its just starting to need a replacement hard drive. Anyone have any insite on this?

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Old 04-13-2014, 03:43 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon96cobra View Post
I have been having one of my series 3 Tivo freeze and start working for a few minutes but the reboot. I'm trying to figure out if it was an update or its just starting to need a replacement hard drive. Anyone have any insite on this?

Sent from Galaxy S4
It's older than a Series 4 and newer than a Series 1, so that means it could be the hard drive OR the power supply, or if you're really lucky, both.


Seriously, the thing to do is check the power supply DC outs with a voltmeter and hook the hard drive (especially if it's the original one they put in at the factory) to a PC, boot with a cd with the drive maker's diagnostic software on it, and run the long test.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:06 AM   #3
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Same here Tivo Series 3 in boot loop

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It's older than a Series 4 and newer than a Series 1, so that means it could be the hard drive OR the power supply, or if you're really lucky, both.


Seriously, the thing to do is check the power supply DC outs with a voltmeter and hook the hard drive (especially if it's the original one they put in at the factory) to a PC, boot with a cd with the drive maker's diagnostic software on it, and run the long test.
I don't have a Voltmeter and I don't have the original hard drive from this Tivo series 3 b/c I won it off of eBay. Didn't even have it for a year and it's already in the 'caput' stage.

I have a Seagate Barracuda SATA III Drive. How can I tell if the hard drive is bad or if my power supply is bad. I didn't see any 'bulging capacitors' b/c I have no clue what a bulging capacitor looks like.

I went to Weaknees and they want to charge $100 just to diagnose the problem-which I already know could result in 2 things: bad hard drive or bad power supply. They want to charge extra to replace the hard drive or any other parts that need to be replaced.
I think I can do this on my own for less. Maybe.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:26 AM   #4
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What a bulging cap looks like:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...94#post8750894

Post the model number of your Tivo -- there are three different Series 3 models and they use different PSU's.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:12 AM   #5
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Going to open it tonight and have a look. I will follow up with my results.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:44 PM   #6
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I don't have a Voltmeter and I don't have the original hard drive from this Tivo series 3 b/c I won it off of eBay. Didn't even have it for a year and it's already in the 'caput' stage.
It was just a matter of time before the low quality capacitors in the power supply fail. HDDs also fail but should last at least a few years.

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I have a Seagate Barracuda SATA III Drive. How can I tell if the hard drive is bad or if my power supply is bad. I didn't see any 'bulging capacitors' b/c I have no clue what a bulging capacitor looks like.
Capacitors can also fail without leaking. The best way to eliminate failing capacitors as the culprit is to replace them. If they're not the culprit today they will fail sooner or later.

HDDs can be removed and connected to a PC where the manufacturer's diagnostic program can be run. I did have an eBay Tivo where the HDD passed all the tests though and only worked after I downloaded a new image, put it on a new drive, and did a clear and delete.

The power supply probably requires more parts and tools than connecting the HDD to a PC and testing it so I would try that first. Then try a different HDD with a fresh image. If that doesn't work then replace the power supply capacitors.

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I think I can do this on my own for less. Maybe.
Very likely.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:27 PM   #7
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As long as you're going to open up the unit and have the drive out long enough to run the manufacturer's long test, you might as well be soldering in replacement caps on the power supply board instead of having to do it in a few months.

If you have the original S3, the TCD648250, with or without a b on the end, the one with the clock display, then you don't need to open it to know the model of the power supply.

If you have an HD (TCD652160) or HD XL (TCD658000), there are two possibilities for which model power supply, so you have to lift the lid to know which one so that you know which set of caps to order.

Check the last 10 pages or so of this thread to find cap lists for the various S3 models:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=473394
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:44 PM   #8
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What a bulging cap looks like:


Post the model number of your Tivo -- there are three different Series 3 models and they use different PSU's.
Yep. I didn't see it before but now I do. I have a slightly bulging C701, C401-there's 2. The second which I can't see the number is bulging and it looks like it leaked. It didn't look like that before which is why I had a hard time trying to figure out what I was at.

I have the Tivo 648250B model.

The hard drive is Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500 GB. I see something that says STX-720012 (B). I don't know if that means anything.

Since I now know it's not the hard drive and that I'm new to this forum, I copied the capacitor replacements but didn't see where to purchase them. Also the capacitors that are bulging have this white caulk? around it. Don't know how to get that loose.
My brother-in-law has a soldering iron. Maybe I can get him to help me if I can replace those capacitors. Also is there a certain type? Replacing the ones I have doesn't seem to do well if they're constantly needing to be replaced.

Oh, a few more questions: Does the power supply need to be taken out in order to replace the capacitors? Is there any videos on how to replace these?

Each time I do a forum search it tells me I don't have enough in the search engine therefore it can't find what I'm looking for.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:35 PM   #9
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Yep. I didn't see it before but now I do. I have a slightly bulging C701, C401-there's 2. The second which I can't see the number is bulging and it looks like it leaked. It didn't look like that before which is why I had a hard time trying to figure out what I was at.

I have the Tivo 648250B model.

The hard drive is Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500 GB. I see something that says STX-720012 (B). I don't know if that means anything.

Since I now know it's not the hard drive and that I'm new to this forum, I copied the capacitor replacements but didn't see where to purchase them. Also the capacitors that are bulging have this white caulk? around it. Don't know how to get that loose.
My brother-in-law has a soldering iron. Maybe I can get him to help me if I can replace those capacitors. Also is there a certain type? Replacing the ones I have doesn't seem to do well if they're constantly needing to be replaced.

Oh, a few more questions: Does the power supply need to be taken out in order to replace the capacitors? Is there any videos on how to replace these?

Each time I do a forum search it tells me I don't have enough in the search engine therefore it can't find what I'm looking for.

The white stuff is just a bit of glue that peels away easily. Yes, you need to take the power supply out because you need to get to the backside of the board to do the soldering.

You can get the caps at Mouser. See this project for a list you can just add to your shopping cart:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager...sID=1a42eea4c1

Replace them all while you are in there.

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Old 04-14-2014, 08:33 PM   #10
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The white stuff is just a bit of glue that peels away easily. Yes, you need to take the power supply out because you need to get to the backside of the board to do the soldering.

You can get the caps at Mouser. See this project for a list you can just add to your shopping cart:



Replace them all while you are in there.

-- Doug
I still have no idea what I need.

From the previous threads you directed me to-only made it to page 3, scrolling too much triggers my Cervical Vertigo-I saw that a poster purchased 2200uf 10v Rubycon Radial Electrolytic Capacitors & 2200UF 6.3V RUBYCON RADIAL ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS.10X20MM.

From Mouser's website, one of these is out of stock so I went to eBay. They have both and from the quantity I wanted eBay's $2 less than Mouser.

If this is what I need to replace the 3 bulging capacitors that I have then I will get those.
I see C401 but can't see the number next to that one. I don't know if both of these are C401's or is it C401 & C402. C402 is the one that looks like it leaked and C701 & C401 are bulging.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:01 PM   #11
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I still have no idea what I need.

From the previous threads you directed me to-only made it to page 3, scrolling too much triggers my Cervical Vertigo-I saw that a poster purchased 2200uf 10v Rubycon Radial Electrolytic Capacitors & 2200UF 6.3V RUBYCON RADIAL ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS.10X20MM.

From Mouser's website, one of these is out of stock so I went to eBay. They have both and from the quantity I wanted eBay's $2 less than Mouser.

If this is what I need to replace the 3 bulging capacitors that I have then I will get those.
I see C401 but can't see the number next to that one. I don't know if both of these are C401's or is it C401 & C402. C402 is the one that looks like it leaked and C701 & C401 are bulging.
Sorry, the link was bad. This one should be better.
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManage...sID=1a42eea4c1

www.digikey.com is another source.

And you really ought to replace all of them unless you just like taking TiVos apart.

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Old 04-14-2014, 10:46 PM   #12
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I still have no idea what I need.

From the previous threads you directed me to-only made it to page 3, scrolling too much triggers my Cervical Vertigo-I saw that a poster purchased 2200uf 10v Rubycon Radial Electrolytic Capacitors & 2200UF 6.3V RUBYCON RADIAL ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS.10X20MM.

From Mouser's website, one of these is out of stock so I went to eBay. They have both and from the quantity I wanted eBay's $2 less than Mouser.

If this is what I need to replace the 3 bulging capacitors that I have then I will get those.
I see C401 but can't see the number next to that one. I don't know if both of these are C401's or is it C401 & C402. C402 is the one that looks like it leaked and C701 & C401 are bulging.

Once you unsolder and remove the caps that need replacing (work methodically, removing and replacing one at a time, keep notes), you'll be able to see the numbers like C401 silkscreened on the circuit board next to a silkscreened circle that shows where it mounts, and only one of them will be labeled C401 or C any other specific number, although you may have a C401 and a C402 that are both the same uF value and rated at the same Voltage (sometimes labeled V and sometimes, mostly on older capacitors, labeled WV, for Working Voltage).

Basically you should replace all of the electrolytic capacitors on the power supply circuit board except for the little bitty ones and the great big one.

Here is HerronScott's list of the ones that need to be replaced on a TCD648250 power supply, along with the part numbers if you want to order them from Digi-Key.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...93#post9131293

What you want are radial (both leads sticking out the bottom) electrolytic capacitors of the type known as low Equivalent Series Resistance, or low ESR, rated for 105 degrees Celsius/Centigrade (rather than the 85 degree rating of general purpose electrolytics).

They have to have the same rating in microFarads (uF) as the one they replace and the Voltage rating should never be lower, ideally the same, but if you have to vary that in order to get something rather than nothing, you can go the next step higher, like a 16V for a 10V, a 25V for a 16, or a 35 for a 25. Of the 4 parameters (low ESR, temp, uF, and V), that's the only one on which you have any wiggle room, and then only in the up direction.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:22 AM   #13
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Good lord,you guys are talking to me like I know what I'm doing-which surprisingly I don't, lol.

I don't know what to look for, I don't know how to solder, and I don't know if I have enough funds to replace 'all' of those capacitors.

I'm not looking to take this apart seeing that I won it off of eBay sometime at the end of 2013. I believe I had this thing for about 1.5 months before it went caput. Unfortunately I shelled out a lot to get it so yeah, not taking it apart. I'm good at that though.

Thanks for the websites. I'll look more into them when I get off of work.

You guys are awesome btw! And truly sorry for making you all re-hash all of this stuff that's somewhere here on this forum.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:32 AM   #14
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We're talking maybe $20 worth of parts here, including shipping. If your brother-in-law can solder, he probably will be able to interpret the instructions and parts lists.

Yes the power supply board must be removed from the TiVo to replace caps.

Unfortunately how much you paid, or how recent it was, have little bearing on whether you have bad caps. But if you replace them with good caps (low ESR, 105C rated, from Mouser or DigiKey) you should be good for many years.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:34 AM   #15
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Unfortunately I shelled out a lot to get it so yeah, not taking it apart.
Right now, you've got an expensive brick. The worst that happens if you take it apart is you have an expensive brick. The best that happens is you have an working TiVo. -- Doug
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:36 AM   #16
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The other option I have seen mentioned is to buy the parts and see if you can find a local small shop that would do the soldering for a reasonable price.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:19 PM   #17
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We're talking maybe $20 worth of parts here, including shipping. If your brother-in-law can solder, he probably will be able to interpret the instructions and parts lists.

Yes the power supply board must be removed from the TiVo to replace caps.

Unfortunately how much you paid, or how recent it was, have little bearing on whether you have bad caps. But if you replace them with good caps (low ESR, 105C rated, from Mouser or DigiKey) you should be good for many years.
Sounds good to me. I just wish I was really savvy at this. I should be by the time I'm done.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:19 PM   #18
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Right now, you've got an expensive brick. The worst that happens if you take it apart is you have an expensive brick. The best that happens is you have an working TiVo. -- Doug
Tell me about it.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:21 PM   #19
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The other option I have seen mentioned is to buy the parts and see if you can find a local small shop that would do the soldering for a reasonable price.
I can try that. Can't do anything worse.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:07 PM   #20
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I can try that. Can't do anything worse.
Ask your BIL if he knows the difference between a soldering iron and a soldering gun. If he does, he probably knows enough to do the fairly simple job of replacing the caps that need replacing.

Just make sure he uses rosin core solder (tin and lead alloy only, no silver or other metals) instead of acid core solder like plumbers use.

Prices may have gone up a little since HerronScott posted that list I linked to, but since he got out for under $15, including tax and shipping, it still shouldn't be more than $20.

You'll need a #10 Torx bit to undo the screws holding the power supply circuit board to the chassis, except for the one easy to overlook one that goes in from the outside just above where the power cord plugs in, and for that you'll need a #8 or #9 Torx bit. If he doesn't have any Torx bits or drivers, but there's a Home Depot in your area, then get one of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-I...4502/100087664

It has all the Torx bits you'll ever need for your TiVo.

Make sure your BIL reads all of this thread and that he knows to observe polarity when putting in the new caps (there's a reason one side of them is marked with a + or -, and why the circuit board is silkscreened to indicate which hole is for the negative lead).
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Old 04-16-2014, 07:23 AM   #21
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Ask your BIL if he knows the difference between a soldering iron and a soldering gun. If he does, he probably knows enough to do the fairly simple job of replacing the caps that need replacing.

Just make sure he uses rosin core solder (tin and lead alloy only, no silver or other metals) instead of acid core solder like plumbers use.

Prices may have gone up a little since HerronScott posted that list I linked to, but since he got out for under $15, including tax and shipping, it still shouldn't be more than $20.

You'll need a #10 Torx bit to undo the screws holding the power supply circuit board to the chassis, except for the one easy to overlook one that goes in from the outside just above where the power cord plugs in, and for that you'll need a #8 or #9 Torx bit. If he doesn't have any Torx bits or drivers, but there's a Home Depot in your area, then get one of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-I...4502/100087664

It has all the Torx bits you'll ever need for your TiVo.

Make sure your BIL reads all of this thread and that he knows to observe polarity when putting in the new caps (there's a reason one side of them is marked with a + or -, and why the circuit board is silkscreened to indicate which hole is for the negative lead).
I have a tool kit that has the bits I need for taking out what I need.
I know what you're thinking: what gal has a tool kit?
I'm familiar with wood work, not electricity so I just need to know the type of soldering iron you mentioned look like and the type of materials to get.

I ended up getting those capacitors from the link I was given but I got it from a TV repair supplier off of eBay. I purchased a total of 23 capacitors that cost me $17.41 with no taxes and free S&H. Some of these were cheaper on digikey but the taxes and S&H would've been more so I hope I got a good deal.

I most definitely will have to show my brother in law the kind of soldering iron you mentioned b/c saying what you mentioned will come out in Japanese form.

A member by the name of Squint PM'd me and I can't answer their PM b/c I'm still a newbie.
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:03 AM   #22
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I have a tool kit that has the bits I need for taking out what I need.
I know what you're thinking: what gal has a tool kit?
I'm familiar with wood work, not electricity so I just need to know the type of soldering iron you mentioned look like and the type of materials to get.

I ended up getting those capacitors from the link I was given but I got it from a TV repair supplier off of eBay. I purchased a total of 23 capacitors that cost me $17.41 with no taxes and free S&H. Some of these were cheaper on digikey but the taxes and S&H would've been more so I hope I got a good deal.

I most definitely will have to show my brother in law the kind of soldering iron you mentioned b/c saying what you mentioned will come out in Japanese form.

A member by the name of Squint PM'd me and I can't answer their PM b/c I'm still a newbie.
When I answer questions here, a lot of the time the answer is aimed at future searchers as well.

If your BIL has a soldering iron (often referred to as a pencil soldering iron because of the way it's held) rated to draw 30 Watts or more, that'll probably do the job.

A soldering gun, which is a type of soldering iron with a pistol style grip and a trigger-type switch, is likely to be rated at 40 Watts or higher.

If he has a somewhat lower powered soldering iron, it might not be heavy-duty enough to melt the old solder on the negative leads of the capacitors which all connect to the ground plane, which means a big area of copper which will dissipate heat applied to it fairly quickly, so it takes a lot to pump it in faster than it spreads it out.

If this is the case, Radio Shack, few of whose products I recommend, has a thing that looks like a soldering iron with a squeeze bulb attached which is called a de-soldering iron, and the price isn't too bad.

It can also generate enough heat to heat up the cap lead and the copper around the hole through which it sticks to get them hot enough to melt new solder to mechanically and electrically bond them together, so you can use it for both phases of the job, and if he does much soldering, he'll get more use out of it down the road.


What gal has a tool kit? The interesting kind.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:04 AM   #23
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If the caps you got via eBay are not the specific part numbers in the list, the question arises whether they are low ESR and 105C temp rated. If not you're wasting your time and money installing them.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:32 PM   #24
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If the caps you got via eBay are not the specific part numbers in the list, the question arises whether they are low ESR and 105C temp rated. If not you're wasting your time and money installing them.
You just killed my joy in buying my first electrical item to repair an electrical item

I completely forgot about the low ESR. It never stated if it was. I just cut & pasted(yeah I don't know if that's a word or not) what was on this thread to the eBay's website and came up with what I came up with. I got no one to blame but myself for not checking.

Just out of curiosity would it say low ESR on the capacitor itself?
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:37 PM   #25
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When I answer questions here, a lot of the time the answer is aimed at future searchers as well.

If your BIL has a soldering iron (often referred to as a pencil soldering iron because of the way it's held) rated to draw 30 Watts or more, that'll probably do the job.

A soldering gun, which is a type of soldering iron with a pistol style grip and a trigger-type switch, is likely to be rated at 40 Watts or higher.

If he has a somewhat lower powered soldering iron, it might not be heavy-duty enough to melt the old solder on the negative leads of the capacitors which all connect to the ground plane, which means a big area of copper which will dissipate heat applied to it fairly quickly, so it takes a lot to pump it in faster than it spreads it out.

If this is the case, Radio Shack, few of whose products I recommend, has a thing that looks like a soldering iron with a squeeze bulb attached which is called a de-soldering iron, and the price isn't too bad.

It can also generate enough heat to heat up the cap lead and the copper around the hole through which it sticks to get them hot enough to melt new solder to mechanically and electrically bond them together, so you can use it for both phases of the job, and if he does much soldering, he'll get more use out of it down the road.


This is how I look right now after reading this.

What gal has a tool kit? The interesting kind.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:07 PM   #26
dlfl
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You just killed my joy in buying my first electrical item to repair an electrical item

I completely forgot about the low ESR. It never stated if it was. I just cut & pasted(yeah I don't know if that's a word or not) what was on this thread to the eBay's website and came up with what I came up with. I got no one to blame but myself for not checking.

Just out of curiosity would it say low ESR on the capacitor itself?
I doubt you can count on the caps being labeled either as low ESR or their temp rating. You would either have to get the exact part number that was in one of the lists or the cap would have to be spec'ed that way in the catalog.

Unitron, do you know?
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Old 04-16-2014, 07:22 PM   #27
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I doubt you can count on the caps being labeled either as low ESR or their temp rating. You would either have to get the exact part number that was in one of the lists or the cap would have to be spec'ed that way in the catalog.

Unitron, do you know?
If she can post the brand and that brand's part number for the various caps, I can use the old Google machine to find out.

A link to the eBay listing would also help.

And what city she's in or near might let me know if she's near anybody that can be of help.
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:00 PM   #28
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If she can post the brand and that brand's part number for the various caps, I can use the old Google machine to find out.

A link to the eBay listing would also help.

And what city she's in or near might let me know if she's near anybody that can be of help.
There was a thread where a poster posted the capacitors. I just copied and pasted the info from there to eBay. I did the same for Digikey and that's how I got the capacitors. Here's what I ordered:

2200uF 6.3V 105C Electrolytic Capacitor---I ordered 3
3300uF 10V 105C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
2200uF 25V 105C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
470uF 16V 105C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
1000uF 6.3V 105C Electrolytic Capacitor---I ordered 5

Please tell me these are right...pretty pretty please!

My brother-in-law does have the solder iron with the rosin core thingie.....My electrical terminology is amazing isn't it?

I do need a pic that will tell me which capacitors to replace. I don't remember seeing one. I know there's other pics on the net but none says 'here's the capacitors you need to replace'. That would be awesome.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:15 PM   #29
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Got some pictures of the power board from my Series 3. Looks like its needs a replacement power card or Capacitor.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwiexaaxsz...2018.22.28.jpg
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:08 PM   #30
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Got some pictures of the power board from my Series 3. Looks like its needs a replacement power card or Capacitor.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwiexaaxsz...2018.22.28.jpg
No doubt. The best approach is to replace every cap except the huge one (The large-size, high-voltage, one which can be hard to find, and rarely fails).
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