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Old 04-12-2014, 02:10 PM   #121
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Im back to 20.4.



Anyone else not satisfied with this explanation?
Give it a break. It is what it is. Move on.
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Old 04-12-2014, 02:37 PM   #122
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Clearly you are satisfied with mediocrity. I am not. We all paid a lot of money for the Tivo service. I don't believe they are holding up their end of the agreement. I had hoped they turned the corner with the Roamio but when blunders like this happen its a disappointment. Shame on me for supporting them. I'll vote with my wallet next time.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:02 PM   #123
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Clearly you are satisfied with mediocrity. I am not. We all paid a lot of money for the Tivo service. I don't believe they are holding up their end of the agreement. I had hoped they turned the corner with the Roamio but when blunders like this happen its a disappointment. Shame on me for supporting them. I'll vote with my wallet next time.
Nobody is satisfied with the idea that this is the best TiVo can do. But most are satisfied that there's not much point in getting a more detailed explanation. What do you want? The name of the employee who goofed? The reason for the blunder (lack of sleep or whatever)? What good would any of that do us? And if you find something better than TiVo for similar money, please let us know.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:09 PM   #124
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Nobody is satisfied with the idea that this is the best TiVo can do. But most are satisfied that there's not much point in getting a more detailed explanation. What do you want? The name of the employee who goofed? The reason for the blunder (lack of sleep or whatever)? What good would any of that do us? And if you find something better than TiVo for similar money, please let us know.
I agree, the fact that Tivo is willing to come out and say "my bad" is far more than most corporations would do, I'm ok knowing they know the issue, and they identified the cause, I just hope they have something in place to prevent it from happening again.

I have a suspicion a lot of what we're seeing is them operating on a shoestring from the development and ops side of their infrastructure as they just try to survive.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:14 PM   #125
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I agree, the fact that Tivo is willing to come out and say "my bad" is far more than most corporations would do...
this, 100%.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:18 PM   #126
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Maybe those rolled back were folks that signed up for the early release via the priority list?
I thought about that, but then thought of the post stating that TiVo rolls updates to the general public, alongside the priority list customers. It seems to be a good point (and good practice/policy).

You don't have to be on the priority list to get the update with the first stage, as I've seen plenty of evidence supporting.

At the same time, priority listed TiVo owners have experienced their TSNs falling into a "black hole", and winding up being the last to get an update. So, the logic would indicate being on that list could cause other things.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #127
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1. TiVo never used to have a TiVo Service status page, now they do.
2. TiVo never used to admit to anything, now they do.
3. TiVo didn't have TiVoMargret before. Halleluyah! Now they do!
4. What is the deal with so many people assuming a live person had anything to do with this? It could have been a server node malfunction. That node could have just happened to service ~200 TiVo TSNs.

We are now getting release notes/changelogs, confirmation that issues exist, confirmation when there are TiVo-side TiVo Service issues, status updates, confirmations they have fixed things, and so much more, we should feel SPOILED, compared to the way things used to be.

Still, after all I just said, I'd like to hear explanations better than things like "there was an issue, it's fixed now". The explanations given are no more informative than that, most of the time.

TiVo has to answer to their MSO partners. I bet the MSOs demand to know exactly what happened, why, how it was fixed, and get TiVos word they will work to prevent it from happening again.

We'll likely never get that as retail customers. But, who can fault those who want more than an unvaguely-vague blurb that could mean almost anything?
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:01 PM   #128
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4. What is the deal with so many people assuming a live person had anything to do with this?
Because it is *always* a live person responsible :-).

I remember when I worked in the comp center at a university. The HR people would give us input to feed to the payroll system to say when various voluntary deductions and wot-not should start or stop. We'd feed the numbers into the program and run payroll.

Once they completely hosed the numbers, told us to feed in hopelessly wrong information and screwed up most of the paychecks.

The next pay period they added a note apologizing for the "computer error" that caused the problem, and patting themselves on the back for all the hard work they put in to correct it by hand.

Grrrr... Aargh...
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:33 PM   #129
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This is why I have a document that keeps a list of every channel I receive. It makes it much easier when setting up a new TiVo.
And on Cox the list changes every few months.
And it there are still something like 1500 channels to freak with (of which 90%+ are garbage).
And they still don't give reasonable descriptions of what all the stupid channels really are.
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Old 04-12-2014, 05:38 PM   #130
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Didn't realize it until this PM, but the rollback screwed up my FIOS cablecard. Back to the HBO/Cinemax not working issue that many of us have seen before.

Unfortunately, I know what the fix is but to find a competent video tech on the weekend is difficult. Guess I will have to wait until Monday.
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Old 04-12-2014, 05:51 PM   #131
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Didn't realize it until this PM, but the rollback screwed up my FIOS cablecard. Back to the HBO/Cinemax not working issue that many of us have seen before.

Unfortunately, I know what the fix is but to find a competent video tech on the weekend is difficult. Guess I will have to wait until Monday.
Fortunately the roll back did not affect my FiOS cable card. My Cinemax is still working. Although just a few days ago I dropped HBO because my 50% discount ran out. But if Cinemax is fine I would expect that HBO would be too.
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:03 PM   #132
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And on Cox the list changes every few months.
And it there are still something like 1500 channels to freak with (of which 90%+ are garbage).
And they still don't give reasonable descriptions of what all the stupid channels really are.
We had about 300 channel changes a few months ago. I still keep a very up to date list. And once a year or so, I will go through and verify each channel as well. It is better than running guided setup and having a full list of channels that includes SD duplicates and tiers I don't receive.
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:33 PM   #133
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I was one of the lucky few as well, got the update, then the rollback, no channels, rebooted my roamio today, took the new update back to 20.4.1, still no channels. Its as if my cable card lost its pairing. Called tech support and I am told they are still working on a fix, and they have no resolution at this time. He did suggest a new cable card, however everything was fine prior to this fiasco. I now have an 800 dollar door stop. WOOOT!!!!!
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:01 PM   #134
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Blanket post:

1. TiVo never used to have a TiVo Service status page, now they do.
2. TiVo never used to admit to anything, now they do.
3. TiVo didn't have TiVoMargret before. Halleluyah! Now they do!
I could not agree more with you. TiVoMargret has provided us with more accountability than ANY other CE manufacture period. I hope she's holding her staff just as accountable. Bugs in new functionality is understandable, but breaking old stuff is not. If increased testing cycles mean longer release cycles, so be it.

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4. What is the deal with so many people assuming a live person had anything to do with this? It could have been a server node malfunction. That node could have just happened to service ~200 TiVo TSNs.
Because it was an operational issue. If it were a malfunction, I believe the language would be different. TiVoMargret has always called bugs bugs. This fix was reassigning the correct release to the affected boxes. I could see it being a result of suspending the priority roll-out; perhaps they inadvertently moved people out of the queue that had already received it. Either way, it was resolved quickly once it got to TiVoMargret. I'm very glad she doesn't sit on these issues and she follows through (refer to #1-3 above). This is good stuff folks.

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We are now getting release notes/changelogs, confirmation that issues exist, confirmation when there are TiVo-side TiVo Service issues, status updates, confirmations they have fixed things, and so much more, we should feel SPOILED, compared to the way things used to be.

Still, after all I just said, I'd like to hear explanations better than things like "there was an issue, it's fixed now". The explanations given are no more informative than that, most of the time.

TiVo has to answer to their MSO partners. I bet the MSOs demand to know exactly what happened, why, how it was fixed, and get TiVos word they will work to prevent it from happening again.

We'll likely never get that as retail customers. But, who can fault those who want more than an unvaguely-vague blurb that could mean almost anything?
Retail customers wont, but neither do the MSO's customers. I'd agree that MSOs themselves get better visibility when an issue effects their end-users, but they have a service level agreement where we do not. Even if it feels like I should given the coin I dropped in the last 6 months.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:10 PM   #135
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I was one of the lucky few as well, got the update, then the rollback, no channels, rebooted my roamio today, took the new update back to 20.4.1, still no channels. Its as if my cable card lost its pairing. Called tech support and I am told they are still working on a fix, and they have no resolution at this time. He did suggest a new cable card, however everything was fine prior to this fiasco. I now have an 800 dollar door stop. WOOOT!!!!!
Try having your cableco to unpair then pair again. Wait until their A-team shows up in the morning (or Monday). I've never had a knowledgeable rep at night for cablecard support.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:43 PM   #136
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2. TiVo never used to admit to anything, now they do.
I've been on this forum for almost 10 years and your statement couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, TiVo use to frequent these forums even more than now. Because of the new forum owners and the way some TiVo employees were treated by some users, that may have slowed down a bit until Margaret came along. However, TiVo has always been very helpful to users in this community going well above the call of duty.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:44 PM   #137
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We had about 300 channel changes a few months ago. I still keep a very up to date list. And once a year or so, I will go through and verify each channel as well. It is better than running guided setup and having a full list of channels that includes SD duplicates and tiers I don't receive.
FYI, kmttg Remote->Guide tab "Export Channels" button automatically generates a CSV spreadsheet file listing all included and excluded channels from your channel list. I re-generate any time there is a lineup change. I used to try and keep a spreadsheet going by hand, but now it's much easier.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:08 PM   #138
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I was rolled back last night which really wasn't a big deal except for the fact that all my channels I received have been messed up adding channels I don't have and deleting ones I do. Also my TiVo is now recording shows it recorded a week or 2 ago as new. Weird. This is on a premiere 4.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:14 PM   #139
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I've been on this forum for almost 10 years and your statement couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, TiVo use to frequent these forums even more than now. Because of the new forum owners and the way some TiVo employees were treated by some users, that may have slowed down a bit until Margaret came along. However, TiVo has always been very helpful to users in this community going well above the call of duty.
Your definitions of "truth", "slowed down a bit", "always", and "going above and beyond" used in the context you used them must be different from mine.

I was lurking (not a member, but present) back around your join date, and opted to use what google cached, when I needed to search for something, as opposed to when I was just reading. I only officially joined when it got more difficult to find what I needed, without joining. I view many forums that I never join.

I recall the days of many in the employ of TiVo being active on here. Yes, they got treated like dirt. TiVoJerry (whom you should recall), made his feelings clear before he dissipated into the ether. I 100% agreed with him.

TiVo's presence here didn't "slow down". It ceased. We were on our own here for a far greater amount of time than you make it out to be (unless you count the impostors, or non-TiVo people who signed up with "TiVo" somewhere in their usernames, often in a misleading manner).

If some of my wording was extreme one way, your response is extreme in the other direction. However, I feel my POV is still more accurate, overall. Even when we had those before TiVoMargret, the word I'd use to compare them to her would be "lackluster", and TiVoMargret is just one person. I see at least one other person agrees with me.

I'm not a TiVo fanboy, nor am I a TiVo hater. But, if you want to be thought of as a fanboy, keep up the knee-jerk extreme reactions to posts that say TiVo isn't perfect. My post provided a rather balanced overall POV, which basically says "TiVo used to be bad at some things, or didn't do some things, but now they do", which I am happy is the case. Some might even read it and think I've become converted to a fanboy. I'd be inclined to think you didn't read past what you didn't like, and went straight to defending TiVo's honor. It wasn't even necessary. I stand-by that post without any reconsideration, and that's not going to change.

I've posted a few things, here and there, that are a bit extreme. I don't consider that post to be one of them.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:44 PM   #140
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I could not agree more with you. TiVoMargret has provided us with more accountability than ANY other CE manufacture period. I hope she's holding her staff just as accountable. Bugs in new functionality is understandable, but breaking old stuff is not. If increased testing cycles mean longer release cycles, so be it.
Thanks. I figure TiVo needs to either hire more help in this area, or if they aren't up to it internally, outsource testing. I think the days of customers volunteering for betas and field trials has become dated, or something about how it is being managed/supervised/implemented just isn't working out...

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Because it was an operational issue. If it were a malfunction, I believe the language would be different. TiVoMargret has always called bugs bugs. This fix was reassigning the correct release to the affected boxes. I could see it being a result of suspending the priority roll-out; perhaps they inadvertently moved people out of the queue that had already received it. Either way, it was resolved quickly once it got to TiVoMargret. I'm very glad she doesn't sit on these issues and she follows through (refer to #1-3 above). This is good stuff folks.
Again, thanks. I understand what you are saying. I feel it's really anybody's guess, or just speculation, to read so far into a few words, and how they have been repeated. I was just presenting one of maybe a dozen different things I had thought it could have been. I'm trying to lean-down my posts these days. I've been going a few rounds in other threads with some who think one thing, while I think something else, when it comes to trying to understand how TiVo's end of the TiVo Service and update rollout system works.

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Retail customers wont, but neither do the MSO's customers. I'd agree that MSOs themselves get better visibility when an issue effects their end-users, but they have a service level agreement where we do not. Even if it feels like I should given the coin I dropped in the last 6 months.
If only we could find somebody inside one of those TiVo-partnered MSOs to "leak" us some more substantial information... As far as the cost, maybe remind yourself what the Series 3 OLED was selling for, or even the TiVo HD XL w/THX certification, then compare what Roamios are going for, and just how much more they can do. I doubt you'll even be able to find a post of mine mentioning how much I spent, unless it's in the Roamio Deals thread. I have to say that I feel I'm getting the best (most) bang for my buck this time. If only TiVo could cure what is ailing them when it comes to testing their updates before they roll. For next Christmas, I just want C133 errors to disrupt nothing more than the discovery bar. I can't find a reason why TiVo can't use the empty placeholder partitions on the Roamio drives to keep a local cache of things in the real-time TiVo Service cloud. I can't prove it's possible, either... There's more I'd like, and I've already detailed what issues are new for me, as well as some that got worse for me with the Spring Update, in the thread for that subject. As usual, it seems some members here, are only here to post how everything about everything works perfectly and flawlessly for them, and keep pointing that out whenever somebody posts an issue...
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:50 PM   #141
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Your definitions of "truth", "slowed down a bit", "always", and "going above and beyond" used in the context you used them must be different from mine.

I was lurking (not a member, but present) back around your join date, and opted to use what google cached, when I needed to search for something, as opposed to when I was just reading. I only officially joined when it got more difficult to find what I needed, without joining. I view many forums that I never join.

I recall the days of many in the employ of TiVo being active on here. Yes, they got treated like dirt. TiVoJerry (whom you should recall), made his feelings clear before he dissipated into the ether. I 100% agreed with him.

TiVo's presence here didn't "slow down". It ceased. We were on our own here for a far greater amount of time than you make it out to be (unless you count the impostors, or non-TiVo people who signed up with "TiVo" somewhere in their usernames, often in a misleading manner).

If some of my wording was extreme one way, your response is extreme in the other direction. However, I feel my POV is still more accurate, overall. Even when we had those before TiVoMargret, the word I'd use to compare them to her would be "lackluster", and TiVoMargret is just one person. I see at least one other person agrees with me.

I'm not a TiVo fanboy, nor am I a TiVo hater. But, if you want to be thought of as a fanboy, keep up the knee-jerk extreme reactions to posts that say TiVo isn't perfect. My post provided a rather balanced overall POV, which basically says "TiVo used to be bad at some things, or didn't do some things, but now they do", which I am happy is the case. Some might even read it and think I've become converted to a fanboy. I'd be inclined to think you didn't read past what you didn't like, and went straight to defending TiVo's honor. It wasn't even necessary. I stand-by that post without any reconsideration, and that's not going to change.

I've posted a few things, here and there, that are a bit extreme. I don't consider that post to be one of them.
I have no clue what you are saying but you did clearly state, "TiVo never used to admit to anything, now they do."

I'm sorry but, TiVoStephen, TiVoPony, TiVoJerry, TiVoBill, TiVoOpsMgr, etc would have to disagree with you. For years they have provided direct support here. And they most certainly admitted to issues and helped people solve them. Maybe you should reword what you said but clearly that is not accurate at all.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:35 PM   #142
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I doubt you'll even be able to find a post of mine mentioning how much I spent, unless it's in the Roamio Deals thread. I have to say that I feel I'm getting the best (most) bang for my buck this time.
LOL. I remember all to well the incident with the Best Buy general manager. It was one of the more entertaining posts in that thread. I went out an bought a Roamio basic (still unactivated) right afterwards.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:26 AM   #143
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I have no clue what you are saying but you did clearly state, "TiVo never used to admit to anything, now they do."

I'm sorry but, TiVoStephen, TiVoPony, TiVoJerry, TiVoBill, TiVoOpsMgr, etc would have to disagree with you. For years they have provided direct support here. And they most certainly admitted to issues and helped people solve them. Maybe you should reword what you said but clearly that is not accurate at all.
It's a slightly broad wording. I think it's called "paraphrasing".

You expect to sound credible by saying 5 TiVo employees, who haven't been on here in years, and may not even work for TiVo anymore "would have to disagree with me"?

I'll stick with what I said, which came from my own self. I said my piece. You said yours. We disagree, period.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:12 AM   #144
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It's a slightly broad wording. I think it's called "paraphrasing". You expect to sound credible by saying 5 TiVo employees, who haven't been on here in years, and may not even work for TiVo anymore "would have to disagree with me"? I'll stick with what I said, which came from my own self. I said my piece. You said yours. We disagree, period.
Except in this case the facts back rainwater, so he's correct.

Simply searching for posts from the user names he mentioned shows that their last posts were months (Feb and Jan respectively), not years ago. Both of them are still TiVo employees and both have posted up to and after Margret started posting.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...archid=8171883
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...archid=8171890

You can call it exaggeration, but there's a big difference between saying there has been no TiVo employee presence here for years before Margret started posting (which is wrong) and the opposite (which is fact). They may not have been as verbal as they were in the past, but they were still here recently.

Though I believe Margret is the highest level position employee who has ever posted here regularly, with her being a VP and she has an Emmy to boot.
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:59 AM   #145
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Except in this case the facts back rainwater, so he's correct.

Simply searching for posts from the user names he mentioned shows that their last posts were months (Feb and Jan respectively), not years ago. Both of them are still TiVo employees and both have posted up to and after Margret started posting.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...archid=8171883
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...archid=8171890

You can call it exaggeration, but there's a big difference between saying there has been no TiVo employee presence here for years before Margret started posting (which is wrong) and the opposite (which is fact). They may not have been as verbal as they were in the past, but they were still here recently.

Though I believe Margret is the highest level position employee who has ever posted here regularly, with her being a VP and she has an Emmy to boot.
Besides the first link not even working, the second link goes to an off-topic (non-TiVo-related) thread, in which TiVoJerry seems to be addicted to playing the game, of which the thread is part of (the thread is the game). I knew he would show up there on-and-off when I'd check to see if he'd been active. I'm only surprised he's still playing that game.

He's also no longer involved with anything to do with anything TiVo-related in the US, and it has been that way for some time now. He does not talk "TiVo", answer TiVo questions, or provide support.

If that was your best zinger, consider me underwhelmed.

If you come up with relevant, on-topic, TiVo-related posts showing how wrong I am, have at it, so long as all the following applies:

1. You can confirm TiVo(whoever) isn't just a name that was kept, rather than close and create a new account.
2. You can prove they still work for TiVo, for US retail customers.
3. It's not an off-topic thread.
4. Proof of actual involvement in an official TiVo capacity: Announcements, answers, support, etc.
5. More than just a one-off post - active participation.

Since 2 years is still plural, I think I'm almost safe from being proven wrong to say it's been years between TiVoMargret, and the TiVo(others) who provided support and announcements before her, if that's so very important to you.
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:25 AM   #146
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:29 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
2. TiVo never used to admit to anything, now they do.
Yet another time when you are just flat-out wrong in your claims. This isn't "para-phrasing" or "exaggeration"; this is wrong. You seem to think that you can make any sort of comment you want, and it's up to other folks to correct your comments for you (and correct them in PM which isn't so private in that you feel you can post other people's PM, if you don't like it!!!)

Just doing a search for TiVoStephen yields lots of posts in the past 5 years (~100 posts total) in which he has commented on issues and even admitted TiVo fault (and even stated that he was posting in an official capacity). TiVoMargret is doing an excellent job now in keeping in touch with us, but TiVo has maintained a presence here throughout the years.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:40 AM   #148
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Many have clamored for release notes for YEARS, and now we get them. We also get TiVoMargret's awesomeness with helpful participation here and on twitter, a direct avenue to report issues to instead of having to deal with a CSR wasting lots of time having you reboot your TiVo, links to priority updates, etc.

We haven't had anything close to that here since the days of Richard Bullwinkle a decade ago, so let's try not to go and blow a good thing.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:58 AM   #149
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Many have clamored for release notes for YEARS, and now we get them. We also get TiVoMargret's awesomeness with helpful participation here and on twitter, a direct avenue to report issues to instead of having to deal with a CSR wasting lots of time having you reboot your TiVo, links to priority updates, etc.

We haven't had anything close to that here since the days of Richard Bullwinkle a decade ago, so let's try not to go and blow a good thing.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:37 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
Yet another time when you are just flat-out wrong in your claims. This isn't "para-phrasing" or "exaggeration"; this is wrong. You seem to think that you can make any sort of comment you want, and it's up to other folks to correct your comments for you (and correct them in PM which isn't so private in that you feel you can post other people's PM, if you don't like it!!!)...
Yet another reason he proudly tops my IL....
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