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Old 03-26-2014, 06:54 PM   #1
truman861
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TB Brighthouse is at it again

So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive.
The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.

I think its time for a class action lawsuit here

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 x Premiers (2 retired, 1 sons room)
2 Minis (living room and daughters room
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T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:10 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by truman861 View Post
So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive.
The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.

I think its time for a class action lawsuit here

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 x Premiers (2 retired, 1 sons room)
2 Minis (living room and daughters room
Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
MoCA
CC: Cisco PK802
TA: Cisco STA1520
T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay
You lost me. Why are we, BHN customer, filing a suit? To BHN's credit, they are the first to proactively work with Cisco to fix their tuning adapter problems. With that said I'm still frustrated by the restricted copy flags that severely limit my out-of-home downloading and streaming on BHN.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:19 PM   #3
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And how much extra do they charge for a tuning adapter?
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:30 PM   #4
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And how much extra do they charge for a tuning adapter?
Tuning Adapters are free.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:38 PM   #5
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Yes, the whole copyright thing drives me nuts. I cant even download the programs onto my laptop anymore through the tivo software even though it is encrypted with my media access key.
They dont charge any extra for a tuning adapter but thats not the point. What is the point is that I dont want Brighthouse equipment in my home and i feel thats my right and I shouldnt be told that I have to pay for service which i cant receive unless i have their equipment.
I know what your thinking, well you dont have to be a brighthouse customer and its true, but because some idiot from Cablelink (BH Contractor) decided the verizon fios wire was in his way so he cut it out from the pole to the house, Verizon wants to charge me 250.00 to set things back up which i refuse to pay and cant get BH to pay so its either BH, Satelite (not over my dead body) or OTA
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:54 PM   #6
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Tuning Adapters are free.
Then there would be no basis for a lawsuit since there are no damages.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:25 PM   #7
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so the fact that Im paying for service that they are refusing to provide all because i dont want their equipment isnt cause ?
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:28 PM   #8
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so the fact that Im paying for service that they are refusing to provide all because i dont want their equipment isnt cause ?
Look, I feel your pain. I'm on Time Warner Cable, and they have tons of channels on SDV. I don't like having to use a tuning adapter any more than you do, but they aren't shifting channels to SDV in order to punish you. There is a legitimate reason for using SDV (to free up bandwidth), and providing a free tuning adapter to you so that your TiVo will still be able to access SDV channels is a reasonable accommodation.

If it makes you feel any better, TiVo and the cable companies finally seem to be working the kinks out of the tuning adapters.

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:44 PM   #9
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Yes, the whole copyright thing drives me nuts. I cant even download the programs onto my laptop anymore through the tivo software even though it is encrypted with my media access key.
The encryption doesn't matter. The flag designates the show as "copy once". Which means once it's recorded to your TiVo it can never be copied again. (that initial recording counts as a copy) So regardless of encryption they cannot make another copy of the show. One potential loophole is they could allow you to move the show rather then copy it. However they'd have to lock the original while it transferred to prevent it from ever existing in two places at once. They'd also have to come up with a new encryption scheme on the PC. The one the use for TiVoToGo is not secure at all and would never be approved by CableLabs. They'd need a more locked down, end to end, system like the iOS app, where the downloader and player are all one piece of software. Even then they might get challenged by CableLabs since moving a file like that is sort of a loophole and has no precedent. Streaming to another TV/device is a similar loophole but the cable companies started doing it in their own equipment first so TiVo had precedent on that one.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:23 PM   #10
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so the fact that Im paying for service that they are refusing to provide all because i dont want their equipment isnt cause ?
It doesn't matter what you "feel is your right", BHN can require you to have a tuning adapter. If they can make all of their linear channels work with your TiVo, with a tuning adapter, they are in compliance with FCC regulations.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:34 PM   #11
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I held out on the tuning adapter for a long time on the same basic principle, but finally gave in (and now have two). Yes, they're a hassle to set up and it's another piece of equipment in the stack, but they're free, you can pick them up at a local BHN office without requiring a truck roll, and they allow you to watch those SDV channels.

I am curious, though, as to which new channels are moving to SDV in May. I haven't seen any letter or notice of this yet.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:43 PM   #12
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Once Comcast DTAs were free too. Now Comcast gets $2 a device.
Also Comcast has introduced yet another cost this year: "Broadcast Recovery Fee"
o'boy. They are very inventive and able to take away with one hand what
they give you gratis with the other hand.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:16 AM   #13
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Tuning adapters would be great if they didn't periodically fail without warning, requiring power-off reboot, plus taking 20+ minutes to resync after power-on.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:07 AM   #14
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Tuning adapters would be great if they didn't periodically fail without warning, requiring power-off reboot, plus taking 20+ minutes to resync after power-on.
These issues are largely due to how cheaply made they are. I'm not really sure that there is anything that can be done about that.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truman861 View Post
So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive.
The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.

I think its time for a class action lawsuit here

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 x Premiers (2 retired, 1 sons room)
2 Minis (living room and daughters room
Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
MoCA
CC: Cisco PK802
TA: Cisco STA1520
T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay
John,

We talked at length yesterday and I thought you understood your options here. The fact that you were able to move recordings previously had nothing to do with us. Your software was not adhering to industry standards and ignore the CCI bit (apparently). Nothing has changed on this end to cause your issues it is and has been the same configuration for quite some time.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:54 PM   #16
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S2 TiVos are SD and record via analog inputs, so they do not know or care about CCI.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:15 PM   #17
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They dont charge any extra for a tuning adapter but thats not the point. What is the point is that I dont want Brighthouse equipment in my home and i feel thats my right and I shouldnt be told that I have to pay for service which i cant receive unless i have their equipment.
OTA
Because the CableCard in the Roamio isn't Brighthouse equipment too?

You'll find plenty of sympathy here regarding TA's and their track record of poor reliability and tuning failures. It seems the .1901 Cisco firmware that many MSO's are starting to push out may finally get the tuning reliability that TA's should have had from the beginning. What you won't find is much sympathy for the argument you're making.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:36 PM   #18
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It seems the .1901 Cisco firmware that many MSO's are starting to push out may finally get the tuning reliability that TA's should have had from the beginning.
Does this new firmware fix the total TA failure problem? About 1/month or so my Cisco TA will silently fail and lose all tuning ability. This cannot be fixed by tuning new channels. The only recourse is to power off and reboot it.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:42 PM   #19
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Does this new firmware fix the total TA failure problem? About 1/month or so my Cisco TA will silently fail and lose all tuning ability. This cannot be fixed by tuning new channels. The only recourse is to power off and reboot it.
I personally haven't had a total lock-up recently, but I've only been on .1901 for about a month. Probably not enough user data to give you an answer to that issue yet.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:33 PM   #20
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I held out on the tuning adapter for a long time on the same basic principle, but finally gave in (and now have two). Yes, they're a hassle to set up and it's another piece of equipment in the stack, but they're free, you can pick them up at a local BHN office without requiring a truck roll, and they allow you to watch those SDV channels.

I am curious, though, as to which new channels are moving to SDV in May. I haven't seen any letter or notice of this yet.
The announcement just came out yesterday to BH employees. I was returning two cards due to buying minis and was told about it then. They did say customers will be getting a letter about it.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:27 PM   #21
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I understand from BHN expert (i guess thats the guy who called me yesterday) that BH is protecting the programing and doing what they are supposed to where as the other companys are not - xfinity, knology, verizon. I dont know. I really dont want to have a TA in my house and really dont feel I should have to but I guess theres nothing that makes me "special" So i will just have to bite the bullet and get one. Once again big conglomirate wins.
Seriously thinking about paying the fee to VZ and moving to them. Do they use TA's with their cards ? Anyone know ?
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:50 PM   #22
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I understand from BHN expert (i guess thats the guy who called me yesterday) that BH is protecting the programing and doing what they are supposed to where as the other companys are not - xfinity, knology, verizon. I dont know. I really dont want to have a TA in my house and really dont feel I should have to but I guess theres nothing that makes me "special" So i will just have to bite the bullet and get one. Once again big conglomirate wins.
Seriously thinking about paying the fee to VZ and moving to them. Do they use TA's with their cards ? Anyone know ?
Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).

Regarding BHN's use of the copy control flags, it is my understanding that the flags are negotiated separately by each MSO. It is possible that the transmission agreement that TWC/BHN have currently, does not permit copy freely flags on non-broadcast channels. The exact agreements are confidential.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:35 PM   #23
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It seems the .1901 Cisco firmware that many MSO's are starting to push out may finally get the tuning reliability that TA's should have had from the beginning. What you won't find is much sympathy for the argument you're making.
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Does this new firmware fix the total TA failure problem? About 1/month or so my Cisco TA will silently fail and lose all tuning ability. This cannot be fixed by tuning new channels. The only recourse is to power off and reboot it.
My 3 Cisco TAs are all still on F.1601 and I do not have any issues with the TAs. (Cox Arizona has 276 SDV Channels)

I regularly reboot my Tuning Adapters, (and TiVos), every 3 - 4 weeks and that seems to work for me. If I do go much beyond 30 days without a reboot, the Cisco TAs seems to lose their sync with the TiVo and/or headend.

The last TiVo SW Update, 20.3.8, dramatically improved the reliability of SDV tuning requests.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:44 PM   #24
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Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).

Regarding BHN's use of the copy control flags, it is my understanding that the flags are negotiated separately by each MSO. It is possible that the transmission agreement that TWC/BHN have currently, does not permit copy freely flags on non-broadcast channels. The exact agreements are confidential.
thanks
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:14 PM   #25
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I regularly reboot my Tuning Adapters, (and TiVos), every 3 - 4 weeks and that seems to work for me. If I do go much beyond 30 days without a reboot, the Cisco TAs seems to lose their sync with the TiVo and/or headend.
Exactly my point. I wouldn't call that "no problems". If you have to do manual reboots to prevent problems, you have problems.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:12 AM   #26
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So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive.
The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.

I think its time for a class action lawsuit here

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 x Premiers (2 retired, 1 sons room)
2 Minis (living room and daughters room
Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
MoCA
CC: Cisco PK802
TA: Cisco STA1520
T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay
They are going to SDV so you can have more channels. You have only some many channel on the system. That depends on if it a 700 or 870 system. Once the system if filled they can not add any more. By going to SDV they can add the channels. What would you do if they did not go to SDV but their was a channel that you would want BH to add Without SDV it would be impossible to add With SDV I can be added.
TWC has been using TA adapters for a long time.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:26 AM   #27
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The announcement just came out yesterday to BH employees. I was returning two cards due to buying minis and was told about it then. They did say customers will be getting a letter about it.
The letter to which you refer only applies to those customers in the Tampa market that have a cable card and no tuning adapter and only communicates that several channels are being moved to SDV and to continue receiving them you would need a TA, that is all. As channels move in and out of the SDV realm we send these to those who MIGHT be impacted. It is nothing new.

The vast majority of Tivo, Ceton and Silicon Dust units have tuning adapters and will not be impacted. The rest have legacy cable card televisions that won't interface with a TA anyway.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:27 AM   #28
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Exactly my point. I wouldn't call that "no problems". If you have to do manual reboots to prevent problems, you have problems.
I haven't rebooted my Tivo or TA in months....darn near a year to be honest and the only reason that happened was we had a power glitch that locked things up good...wasn't sure if it was the Tivo or the TA so rebooted both.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:30 AM   #29
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I understand from BHN expert (i guess thats the guy who called me yesterday) that BH is protecting the programing and doing what they are supposed to where as the other companys are not - xfinity, knology, verizon. I dont know. I really dont want to have a TA in my house and really dont feel I should have to but I guess theres nothing that makes me "special" So i will just have to bite the bullet and get one. Once again big conglomirate wins.
Seriously thinking about paying the fee to VZ and moving to them. Do they use TA's with their cards ? Anyone know ?
You understood and yet created this thread? I find it puzzling that despite what appeared to be decent conversation about the facts as they are, have been a very long time and also that no changes on our part had caused you the problem you were having with moving content you still felt compelled to create a thread with the title and content you did.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:31 AM   #30
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Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).

Regarding BHN's use of the copy control flags, it is my understanding that the flags are negotiated separately by each MSO. It is possible that the transmission agreement that TWC/BHN have currently, does not permit copy freely flags on non-broadcast channels. The exact agreements are confidential.
Correct Sam and thank you. This was discussed at length with John....
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