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Old 03-20-2014, 06:24 PM   #31
djev
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I live in the Fort Worth area, we were the first to go "all digital" last year. We didn't use TA before the change or after the change. It did make a lot of people angry because they had to get a STB for each TV but that was the only real change.

We just (March 18th) changed to "Charter Spectrum" with over 200 HD channels and 60 Mbps internet speeds. I did have to do the guided setup on ONE Tivo box (we have 2 Premiers and 2 Roamios) and that seemed to signal the other boxes of the lineup change. It is another big lineup change BTW, like the entire 400 series is blank... I wonder what that will become...

Now, if only we could get VOD with Charter on Tivo.
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:35 PM   #32
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Doesn't having popular channels on SDV kind of defeat the purpose of SDV? If someone is always watching a SDV channel there is never any band width being freed up from not broadcasting it on that node, isn't that whole idea behind SDV?

Also if someone else on your node is already watching a SDV channel wouldn't it temporarily be available to everyone on the node without the need for the TA? I thought all the TA did was request the channel be sent?
Yes that is the point of SDV. They typically assign a block of less popular channels to a smaller block of frequencies with the idea being that it's highly unlikely people on a given node will be watching all of those channels simultaneously. So for example they might assign a block of 10 channels to a block of 5 frequencies. When someone on your node tunes one of those 10 channels it is assigned one of those 5 frequencies and then that is relayed back to your TiVo or cable box so that it knows which frequency to tune. If someone else on your node is already watching that channel then it leaves it where it is and just tells your TiVo/box which frequency to tune. So as long as no more then 5 of those channels are actively being watched at a given time they're able to offer 10 channels for the bandwidth of 5. And on the rare occasion all 5 frequencies are already being used then the TiVo/box simply displays an error. Although since nodes are relatively small this can actually be multiplied out to the point where it's virtually impossible for all the channels in a block to be tuned simultaneously, so that could basically never happen.

Eventually all channels will be SDV. Since nodes are relatively small if they moved all channels to SDV then it would be impossible for a single node to use all the available frequencies, which would free up more bandwidth for other services.

While we see a lot of people complain about poor experiences with SDV and tuning adapters on this forum, it actually is a pretty cool technology that will allow cable companies to offer a lot more services in the future. Stuff like network DVRs and gigabit internet.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:49 PM   #33
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Doesn't having popular channels on SDV kind of defeat the purpose of SDV?
It doesn't hurt. It just means those channels will probably always be available. For example, TWC in NC puts every single channel on SDV (except the locals I believe). I would assume they do this so that the system isn't overly complex and is probably easy to configure.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:53 PM   #34
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TWC in NC puts every single channel on SDV (except the locals I believe).
That's not accurate. I'm on TWC in NC and there are a number of cable channels that are not SDV. ESPN, ESPN2, Fox News Channel, Discovery Channel, just to name a few off the top of my head. If you want to find out which channels are SDV and which aren't, all you have to do is turn off your tuning adapter and see what channels you can still receive.

Perhaps what you are thinking of is that TWC encrypts all digital channels except for the local broadcast channels. To view unencrypted channels all you have to have is a digital ClearQAM tuner, to view encrypted channels you also need a CableCard, and to watch SDV channels you have to also have a tuning adapter.

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Old 03-21-2014, 12:37 AM   #35
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That's not accurate. I'm on TWC in NC and there are a number of cable channels that are not SDV. ESPN, ESPN2, Fox News Channel, Discovery Channel, just to name a few off the top of my head. If you want to find out which channels are SDV and which aren't, all you have to do is turn off your tuning adapter and see what channels you can still receive.
Are you in the Charlotte market? AFAIK, they put all channels on SDV a while back. I'm not sure about the east side of the state. From what I was told, it was one of only 2 markets that did that at the time. I don't have them anymore, so I do not know if they have changed it recently.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:01 AM   #36
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Are you in the Charlotte market? AFAIK, they put all channels on SDV a while back. I'm not sure about the east side of the state. From what I was told, it was one of only 2 markets that did that at the time. I don't have them anymore, so I do not know if they have changed it recently.
I'm in Raleigh. You could be right about Charlotte, I don't know much about what TWC does down there.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:47 AM   #37
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Series 2 compatible with Charter All Digital Change?

I am jumping in on this discussion and could use some help! I am also in Wisconsin and Charter's date in my area is April 15 for all digital. I am trying to get by without too many monthly charges. I have a lot of TV's (all pretty old technology).

I think your responses should help others as well since this is affecting so many people very soon!

I have (two) Series 2 Tivo's and one Series 3 with lifetime. I currently have one digital box from Charter on the Series 3 (Which they made me hook up to get the deal) and could switch to a cablecard at $2 a month instead of box charge of 6.99 month on the Series 3.

I talked with Tivo yesterday and they said my series 2 boxes would not work with Charter's all digital but from the comments here that may not be true? I have lifetime on all 3 tivo's and would like to keep my series 2 if it is compatible with Charter's digital service (with some kind of box, of course).

I never watch "on demand" etc.

I am considering purchasing tuners (which Charter suggested for all my TV's after MANY calls) They recommended HDhomerun Prime (By Silicondust) They did NOT say they would work with TIVO but I didn't ask. This would be a lot cheaper than replacing my 2 lifetime tivo's. (the tuners are about $149.00 each.)

Here are my questions:
1) Will these tuners work with my series 2 Tivo's so that I can continue to use the tivo's (or has anyone done this)? I know I'll need cablecards to put in these tuners but they quoted me $2 a month for each card so that seems more reasonable to me than cable box charges.

2) Are there severe issues with using these tuners with series 2?

3) Does anyone have a newer TV that can accept the cablecard and what model if you care to share? That would work on my "non" tivo rooms. I would just replace my old technology TV's over a period of time with Cablecard Tv's and eliminate the need for the box charge.

4) On the FCC web page they state you don't have to rent your cable card and you can purchase it. Has anyone done this and where did you purchase it? Google fcc cable card

5) Are there any other options that I have not considered?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Joni
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:12 PM   #38
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The series 3 will need a cable card and TA, the series 2's will need a DTA (stripped down cable box) or full cable box and IR blaster or direct connect cable.

Last edited by cannonz : 03-22-2014 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by younglife12 View Post
I am jumping in on this discussion and could use some help! I am also in Wisconsin and Charter's date in my area is April 15 for all digital. I am trying to get by without too many monthly charges. I have a lot of TV's (all pretty old technology).

I think your responses should help others as well since this is affecting so many people very soon!

I have (two) Series 2 Tivo's and one Series 3 with lifetime. I currently have one digital box from Charter on the Series 3 (Which they made me hook up to get the deal) and could switch to a cablecard at $2 a month instead of box charge of 6.99 month on the Series 3.

Joni
Are you sure it's a 3 they don't have IR port to control a box like 2 and below do, were you changing channels manually?
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:23 PM   #40
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3) Does anyone have a newer TV that can accept the cablecard and what model if you care to share? That would work on my "non" tivo rooms. I would just replace my old technology TV's over a period of time with Cablecard Tv's and eliminate the need for the box charge.
They don't really make TVs with CableCard slots any longer. Since many cable companies use SDV these days, a tuning adapter connected to the TV would also be required to get certain channels. While that could technically be done the same way that the current TiVos do it, no TV manufacturer (that I am aware of) has chosen to do so. Manufacturers view it as a feature that very few people would use, and they don't think adding it for those few people would justify the extra expense of doing so, particularly in an era when HDTVs are being made to be as cheap as possible.

Your only simple option to avoid your cable company's cable box/box change (besides a Tivo of course) would be to purchase Samsung's retail cable box/media streamer:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-GX-SM5...sung+cable+box

Long term though, it would probably be a better strategy to just upgrade to a Roamio and Minis rather than trying to hold onto the Series 2's and buying CableCard compatible devices for every TV in your home. One benefit of that is that you will only need 1 Cablecard to supply live TV to every TV in your home, which means your cable company will only be changing you 1 CableCard rental fee.

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4) On the FCC web page they state you don't have to rent your cable card and you can purchase it. Has anyone done this and where did you purchase it? Google fcc cable card
I think you are wrong about this. I have never read that the FCC has mandated that consumers have a right to buy their own CableCard. Please provide a link that says this.

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Old 03-22-2014, 04:35 PM   #41
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Are you sure it's a 3 they don't have IR port to control a box like 2 and below do, were you changing channels manually?
Ok... Now I know I came to the right place! This is so confusing!

I have a Tivo Prmiere XL series 4 (not 3)
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:38 PM   #42
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They don't really make TVs with CableCard slots any longer. Since many cable companies use SDV these days, a tuning adapter connected to the TV would also be required to get certain channels. While that could technically be done the same way that the current TiVos do it, no TV manufacturer (that I am aware of) has chosen to do so. Manufacturers view it as a feature that very few people would use, and they don't think adding it for those few people would justify the extra expense of doing so, particularly in an era when HDTVs are being made to be as cheap as possible.

Your only simple option to avoid your cable company's cable box/box change (besides a Tivo of course) would be to purchase Samsung's retail cable box/media streamer:



Long term though, it would probably be a better strategy to just upgrade to a Roamio and Minis rather than trying to hold onto the Series 2's and buying CableCard compatible devices for every TV in your home. One benefit of that is that you will only need 1 Cablecard to supply live TV to every TV in your home, which means your cable company will only be changing you 1 CableCard rental fee.



I think you are wrong about this. I have never read that the FCC has mandated that consumers have a right to buy their own CableCard. Please provide a link that says this.
1) I must have misunderstood the FCC. They state you have the right to install your own cable card (rented from your cable company)....

2) I think the Roamio and minis would cost me the same or more than charter want's for the boxes on each TV, Tivo's rent (if I understand it right) is $13.00 for Roamio and 5.99 month for each Mini OR I could purchase all the lifetime's for them and that would be a lot.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:46 PM   #43
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You will definitely need card and TA for the premiere and DTA's for the series 2's, if they are indeed series 2's (look for model number on back) Your cable company is probably providing 2 DTA's for free for a while and charging a couple bucks a month after that. Then use the blasters that came with the tivos or direct connect cable from ebay (more reliable) to control DTA's, redo setup. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tivo-IR-Blas...item4aa489f254
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:54 PM   #44
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You will definitely need card and TA for the premiere and DTA's for the series 2's, if they are series 2's (look for model number on back) They are probably providing 2 DTA's for free for a while and charging a couple bucks a month after that. Then use the blasters that came with the tivos or direct connect cable from ebay (more reliable) to control DTA's, redo setup.
The premiere (series 4) already has a charter digital box that we have used since we got it. The other two say "Series 2" on the front. Not sure what you meant "use the blasters that came with the tivos" And not sure if I need a "direct connect cable" The Series 2 are currently hooked up and it's been so long since I installed them I don't know if they have what I will need.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:01 PM   #45
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The premiere (series 4) already has a charter digital box that we have used since we got it. The other two say "Series 2" on the front. Not sure what you meant "use the blasters that came with the tivos" And not sure if I need a "direct connect cable" The Series 2 are currently hooked up and it's been so long since I installed them I don't know if they have what I will need.
I now see your link above on the blasters. It looks like it's compatible with my Toshiba but doesn't mention my Humax...
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:32 PM   #46
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2) I think the Roamio and minis would cost me the same or more than charter want's for the boxes on each TV, Tivo's rent (if I understand it right) is $13.00 for Roamio and 5.99 month for each Mini OR I could purchase all the lifetime's for them and that would be a lot.
Lifetime is the only sensible way to go. In the long run, you will be much better off than renting boxes from your cable company. See thread discussion on this topic:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=515396
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:39 PM   #47
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Ok... Now I know I came to the right place! This is so confusing!

I have a Tivo Prmiere XL series 4 (not 3)
As long as you have a cable card and a tuning adapter, you're good to go. That's all you need, though when the channel map changes, you will need to go through Guided Setup again to get the channels set up again.

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1) I must have misunderstood the FCC. They state you have the right to install your own cable card (rented from your cable company)....

2) I think the Roamio and minis would cost me the same or more than charter want's for the boxes on each TV, Tivo's rent (if I understand it right) is $13.00 for Roamio and 5.99 month for each Mini OR I could purchase all the lifetime's for them and that would be a lot.
1) You're right about the FCC allowing for cable card self-installs, since it just requires providing Charter the Data ID and Host ID. It doesn't need a truck roll. Heck, most of the times I've had a tech on-hand to do a CableCard install, they screw it up or the back-end rep screws it up.

If you don't mind being forced to watch the content on a TV that the DVR is connected to, having Charter's sub-par DVR implementation in place of the Tivo software or a much smaller amount of recording space, go with the Charter boxes.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:54 PM   #48
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1) You're right about the FCC allowing for cable card self-installs, since it just requires providing Charter the Data ID and Host ID. It doesn't need a truck roll. Heck, most of the times I've had a tech on-hand to do a CableCard install, they screw it up or the back-end rep screws it up.

If you don't mind being forced to watch the content on a TV that the DVR is connected to, having Charter's sub-par DVR implementation in place of the Tivo software or a much smaller amount of recording space, go with the Charter boxes.
Translation: Charter employees are incompetent, so if you don't mind rewarding their incompetence by paying Charter extra money each month to rent their crappy equipment, in addition to the money you are already overpaying them for the content, then just do that.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:03 PM   #49
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As long as you have a cable card and a tuning adapter, you're good to go. That's all you need, though when the channel map changes, you will need to go through Guided Setup again to get the channels set up again.

1) You're right about the FCC allowing for cable card self-installs, since it just requires providing Charter the Data ID and Host ID. It doesn't need a truck roll. Heck, most of the times I've had a tech on-hand to do a CableCard install, they screw it up or the back-end rep screws it up.

If you don't mind being forced to watch the content on a TV that the DVR is connected to, having Charter's sub-par DVR implementation in place of the Tivo software or a much smaller amount of recording space, go with the Charter boxes.
I hear that. I love Tivo. Have had tivo for about 10 years and purchased liftetime on all 3.

Charter just "assured" me that my Series 2 tivos "should" work with the hdhomerun prime. I had to go to level 2 tech to get that answer. Level one said he knew nothing about it. Amazon has it (homerunprime) for $99 so I will buy 2 for my series 2 tivo's and give it a try. If it doesn't work Amazon will take them back. If it all works, (big IF) my series 2 tivos will cost me $2.00 each a month for the card from charter (and of course the $100 initial cost). That will give me some time to save up for the Roamio and minis and the lifetime subscriptions for them all.

Speaking of Charter employees, I recorded my conversation with the worst customer representative ever. I have an app on my phone that can do that easily. I kept telling him he was being recorded but he continued to harrass me. I called and complained and played the unbelievable conversation and they were shocked (or seemed shocked) that he spoke to me that way. They were kind, however, and offered me free installation. I'm thinking they will regret it.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:13 PM   #50
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I'm not sure what you mean by the homerunprime will work with your series 2 tivo's it is a tuner for computer based DVR system. All you need is a DTA from your cable company for each of them, either free or a couple of bucks a month. And I suspect the digital box you have for your premiere is a TA (does it have a USB connection to the tivo?) and has a cable card installed.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:12 AM   #51
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I'm not sure what you mean by the homerunprime will work with your series 2 tivo's it is a tuner for computer based DVR system. All you need is a DTA from your cable company for each of them, either free or a couple of bucks a month. And I suspect the digital box you have for your premiere is a TA (does it have a USB connection to the tivo?) and has a cable card installed.
As far as I know, Charter does NOT provide DTAs. For the digital conversion, they require you to get a full cable box. At least in my area no DTAs were offered.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:39 PM   #52
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Same here. Not DTAs, you had to get a full box. If was free for a year then $5/mo per box there after. For me it didn't matter, but I'm sure it's going to add up big time for other people once that year is up.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:41 PM   #53
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Eventually all channels will be SDV. Since nodes are relatively small if they moved all channels to SDV then it would be impossible for a single node to use all the available frequencies, which would free up more bandwidth for other services.
I don't know about that. Charter's CEO has said on multiple occasions that he wants to get out of the SDV platform. I think what is more likely to happen is that instead of a wholesale move to SDV (meaning MPEG2/4 modulated onto a QAM) there will be a move to IP-delivered h.264 via multicast. Which, while functionally very similar to SDV, is drastically different (which I'm sure you're already aware).
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:06 PM   #54
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Yeah I was going to mention IP but I didn't want to confuse people too much. Although as long as cable companies are required to support CableCARDs they wont be able to switch to IP as the CableCARD spec requires QAM.

Personally I'm still holding out hope for AllVid, rather then proprietary IP technology, but we'll likely end up with the later. Especially with Charter's special waiver they got from the FCC.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:04 PM   #55
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Yeah I was going to mention IP but I didn't want to confuse people too much. Although as long as cable companies are required to support CableCARDs they wont be able to switch to IP as the CableCARD spec requires QAM.

Personally I'm still holding out hope for AllVid, rather then proprietary IP technology, but we'll likely end up with the later. Especially with Charter's special waiver they got from the FCC.
Unfortunately CableCard is on it's way out, the writing is on the wall. The best we could ever hope for is our beloved TiVo becoming (one of) Charter's partners for downloadable security (they have to have at least one) to keep their CC waiver, but eventually the tide of "apps" available on "multiple devices" will be enough for the FCC to say that "retail works!" even if it doesn't meet the standards that *we* would set.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:10 PM   #56
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The AllVid alliance is still pushing the FCC for a more universal replacement to CableCARD, I'm really hoping they listen. But in all likelihood the the FCC is going to listen to the lobbyist and cable is going to end up being a hodgepodge of proprietary downloadable security standards. They'll all be "open", but they'll be different enough that it'll be hard, or impossible, for a company like TiVo to design a box that works with all of them.
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Old 03-25-2014, 01:47 PM   #57
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Charter All Digital Conversion in Southern California happened this morning!

Charter did the all digital upgrade last night here in SoCal, (03/25/2014). It does look like I will need to run the guided setup on my Tivo boxes (2 Roamios and 3 Tivo Mini's) as many channels like HBO and many others are listed as one program but playing another right now as well as many messages that some channels are not available on my tuning adapter.

Charter has been informing us of the change for the past couple of months at least and that they would provide Cable Boxes and/or CableCards to those customers for free for 12 month to those customers that will need to add them to their TV in order to continue watch Charter Cable programming. (Does that mean I get one of my existing CableCards for free for the next 12 months???)

I'm looking forward to the promised doubling of Internet speed to 60 Mbps and their "Spectrum" service, (whatever that really means). Now if they would update the CableCard firmware to 153.1101 so I can use all 6 of my tuners I would be very pleased!

They did not mention anything about special handling of Tivo's such as the need to run the guided setup to get all your channels back in sync, but that is par for the course with Charter.

Thanks for the info, I'll run my Guided Setup and see if the clears the Channel Guide mismatch problems.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:45 PM   #58
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When we first switched a lot of the channels were wrong. There were quite a few listed with a P at the end designating a Pacific feed, but that were actually east coast feeds so they were off by 3 hours. I had to submit several lineup change requests to TiVo to get those fixed.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:01 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by pshivers View Post
Charter did the all digital upgrade last night here in SoCal, (03/25/2014). It does look like I will need to run the guided setup on my Tivo boxes (2 Roamios and 3 Tivo Mini's) as many channels like HBO and many others are listed as one program but playing another right now as well as many messages that some channels are not available on my tuning adapter.
Because they usually do the digital upgrade on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis, there is usually a new lineup created (called something like "rebuild"). You can look at http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/ and enter your zip to see if it is available. If it is, then you would need to run guided setup again and when you get to the channel setup do the advanced setup and choose the new lineup.

Just be aware if you choose a new lineup, they may or may not delete that lineup after a few months and move everyone back to the main lineup. If they do that, you will have to run GS again.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:20 PM   #60
Dan203
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Mine only had one lineup, but I still had to rerun GS. I think the change was so massive it just screwed up my TiVo. My Sister never did on her TiVo HD and it did get picked up eventually, but after like a week.
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