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Old 03-01-2014, 10:31 AM   #1
CrashHD
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Possibilites of a Series3/TivoHD upgrade beyond 2TB?

Has anyone tried to upgrade a Series3/TivoHD past 2TB total capacity lately? Since one of the recent software updates allowed greater than 1TB partitions, making it conveniently possible to upgrade any of these units to 2TB, I've been wondering if any other limitations may have been removed as well, and in fact greater yet capacities may be possible.

When I find an eSATA enclosure, I am considering attempting a 4TB setup in a 2TB + 2TB configuration.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:41 AM   #2
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It is theoretically possible to expand a TiVo HD series 3 to 3TB or 4TB as it has a 64bit MFS. The OLED S3 has a 32bit MFS and consequently cannot be upgraded further. I have proved that 11.0k software can see a 3TB drive. (Transferred my 2TB image to a 3TB drive and booted it in the TiVo.)

That being said, I was hoping someone would try this. I only have an OLED S3 to work with and thus was unable to try what I think is possible. If you are willing to try this I am willing to help. The method would be similar to building a 3TB or 4TB premiere. The quickest and easiest method is if you have a TiVo HD XL 1TB image, place it on a 3TB drive and use JMFS to expand to 3TB. What Model S3 do you have.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:50 PM   #3
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I have two of each at my disposal. I collected up some broken lifetime units on ebay in need of PSU caps and/or hdd replacement.

I have two brand new 2TB drives to play with, and one of the units already has a 2TB drive in it. I was thinking of testing by trying to break 2TB (TiB technically) with a dual drive setup, and pending results of that test, then purchasing a larger hard drive. I don't want to buy a 3TB or 4TB drive only to find out I have no use for it.

I presently do not have an eSATA controller, and I have been for some time away from this game (last time I was regularly active here, hacking 6.2a to enable MRV was the big thing, that has been some time ago). Is there not some restriction for the TivoHD only being able to use a certain type of eSATA device?
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:16 PM   #4
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Doing 2TB + 2TB should not be a problem. I think WinMFS can register a non supported external drive to the HD S3. I know it can do it to the OLED S3s. The OLED S3s are limited by a 32bit MFS so they can only address 2TB. The HD S3s have a 64bit MFS so they can go much larger and only limited by the fact a 32bit APM is still used in TiVo.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
Doing 2TB + 2TB should not be a problem. I think WinMFS can register a non supported external drive to the HD S3. I know it can do it to the OLED S3s. The OLED S3s are limited by a 32bit MFS so they can only address 2TB. The HD S3s have a 64bit MFS so they can go much larger and only limited by the fact a 32bit APM is still used in TiVo.
Can the 648s only address 2TB per drive, or only 2TB total?

The 648 debuted with an eSATA port but it wasn't enabled. People figured out an unofficial way to enable it, so by the time TiVo themselves sent down a software update that would make adding an eSATA external "Plug and Play" they couldn't include the "official" and very short list of approved WD drive model numbers without breaking already working installations.

But when the HD and HD XL came out, they had the list, and supposedly only drives on that list will be accepted, which means only a 500GB or a 1TB.

Is there a way for the HD and HD XL to work around that list?
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Old 03-02-2014, 01:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Can the 648s only address 2TB per drive, or only 2TB total?
<snip>
Is there a way for the HD and HD XL to work around that list?
When I get ahold of an eSATA enclosure, I suppose I will find out.

I am not certain, but I believe the limitation to the officially supported expansion drives only pertains to use via plug and play installation. I believe manually configuring dual drive tivos can be done they same way it's always been done.
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:58 PM   #7
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The 648 has a 32bit MFS and that is what limits it to around 2TB total external and internal space. That is an educated guess based on a 32bit file system limitations. I guess the easiest test would be for someone who already has a 2TB 648 try adding a 500GB or 1TB expander. If it works, then TiVo figured out away around that and you probably can have a 2TB + 2TB system. Kind of like the way they made a work around for the 32bit APM limitations in getting drives larger than 2TB to work but in the MFS realm. I would but I have fiddled with my TiVos so much, I promised my wife a lengthy break so she can record and watch her shows without interruption.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:01 PM   #8
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WinMFS can add an external drive. I'll have to go back and reread the instructions, but I believe it can add a non approved drive to an HD or HD XL.
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:07 PM   #9
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Getting closer. I just finished recapping the TivoHD that will be the testbed for this project. It is in the process of booting up, and looks like that repair will be successful. I was all set to start testing, but I got the phone call from my second job, and it's time to go drive the snow plow. :yuck:

I still don't have an eSATA device, but I have a standard SATA cable, and a means of powering the second drive. I'm intending to test with that, as time permits.

The snow is not too deep, hopefully it will plow quick and I'll still have an opportunity to test tonight. Not likely, but hopefully. I was really hoping to test this while still riding the high of the successful PSU repair.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:47 PM   #10
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Snow was light, plowing went quick...testing tonight. Fingers crossed.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:56 PM   #11
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The Tivo, a TivoHD (652) successfully booted with a single 2TB drive (not surprising). Adding a second 2TB drive via winMFS results in a reboot loop. At the end of the "almost there" screen, the screen blinks, goes dark for a few seconds like it normally does before going to the startup video, and comes back with a reboot instead.

I don't know if it's just beyond the software capabilities, or perhaps requires a different expansion method. I may have to read up on this JMFS tool (I've been gone from this for a while, my skillset is not current).
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:17 PM   #12
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Consider using MFSLive as well. In JMFS mfsadd.sh has an undocumented feature of adding a drive. Not sure if it is fully functional. One thing I would check is the MFS header and see what drives are listed there. There might be some inconsistencies.
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:33 PM   #13
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Since you don't have an eSata connector/dock, how did you connect it to the TiVo.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:23 AM   #14
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With the case open, I used a standard SATA power cable, and a separate power supply for the second hard drive. It sounds kind of rube goldberg, but I ran it like that for two weeks on a single hard drive, waiting for the digikey delivery and time to recap the PSU. With the bad caps on the PSU, it would reboot almost every half hour. Taking the load of powering the hard drive off the PSU, it would only reboot about once a day.

I have a use for an eSATA enclosure anyway, and will try this again when I get one. Until I take one of these recapped, 2TB upgraded, lifetime units and flip it on ebay, my entire hobby budget is kind of tied up at the moment.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:42 AM   #15
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I can see a single hard drive hooked up that way, but how do you have 2 drives hooked up at the same time.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:52 AM   #16
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Using a secondary power supply for the second drive, unplugging the eSATA connector on the back panel from the motherboard, and instead plugging a standard SATA cable into the 2nd eSATA port on the motherboard, and using that.

As a last shot in the dark, I triggered a kickstart 57 last night. It ran overnight, and produced no results. I removed the second hard drive, rebooted, went through the "external storage missing" process, and it is has just now finished booting up and is at the Tivo Central screen, running solely on the 2TB internal drive.

I'm open to suggestions. Right now, the next thing I think to try is to add a 2TB external to the 160GB original internal. This won't break 2TB, but will at least confirm I can use the 2TB drive when connected in this manner.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:04 AM   #17
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The other KS to try is 58. I agree that we need to check that adding a drive that way will work.
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Old 03-08-2014, 06:14 PM   #18
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I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask. I recently used jmfs to successfully upgrade a Premiere to 2Tb.

Now I want to upgrade my TiVo HD S3(652) to a larger drive. It has already been upgraded to 1Tb. If I use WinMFS/expand/supersize and a new WD30EURX 3Tb drive will I:

A. Still have only 1Tb of usable space
B. Expand to 2Tb of usable space
C. Expand beyond 2Tb of usable space, maybe 3Tb?
D. Screw up the new drive
E. Other?

As much as I've read here I still can't predict what will happen.

Thanks for any advice.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:33 PM   #19
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Before we go further, how did you upgrade the original drive? Did you use WinMFS or JMFS.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:54 PM   #20
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Old 03-08-2014, 08:02 PM   #21
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Presently, I have not seen anyone get any Series3 model past 2TiB.

I think there are two expansion options with winMFS. One is to limit the expansion partition to 1TB in size, the other is to extend all the way to the end of the drive. The first option would not give you a substantial increase in usable space, and the second would likely be too much.

I cannot say for certain, but I think possibly a 652 box may still have a limitation of 2TB of MFS address space, despite the fact it has a 64 bit MFS. There are more knowledgeable folks than me on this board with regard to that subject, and hopefully one of them will respond.
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Old 03-08-2014, 08:22 PM   #22
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I am not sure anybody has tried to get beyond 2TB on a S3 HD yet. A S3 OLED cannot as I personally verified that. It can boot a drive larger that 2TB but the image on that drive has to be 2TB or less.

Since you already expanded with WinMFS, you now have 15 partitions. Expanding again with WinMFS, I think, will expand the 15th partition up to 2TB and not give you another pair of partitions giving you a total of 17 partitions. If it does I expect the TiVo to divorce the partitions. If you use JMFS to expand, then you would have 16 partitions. It might be okay with that, I am not sure. The S4 series are not happy with 16 partitions and they divorce it.
If the above doesn't work then I think the safest way to expand further would be to coalesce your current partition 14 and 15 into partition 14. Let the TiVo divorce partition 15. Then expand with JMFS to either 2TB or 3TB.
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:46 AM   #23
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Thanks to you both. Trying to get to 3TB just may be too technical for me. I'll be better off to get a 2TB drive and use the 3TB elsewhere. Thanks again.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:19 PM   #24
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I think this would be your best shot at getting a 3T or 4T drive in to a TiVoHD:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=513785
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:53 PM   #25
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I think this would be your best shot at getting a 3T or 4T drive in to a TiVoHD:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=513785
That thread is about Tivo Premieres (Series 4).

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Old 03-25-2014, 08:47 PM   #26
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I'll test a 3TB drive in my TivoHD. I have a 1TB in it currently and I just did a WinMFS truncated backup. I happen to have a new 3TB WD green drive that was going to be used for a Roamio I ordered but I repaired the bad cap in my S3 OLED so I sent back the Roamio to pay for some medical bills. I'll let you know if it works when I can get time to do it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:03 PM   #27
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Is the 1TB drive native to the HD ( you have an HD XL) or one that was expanded from a smaller image. If it is the latter, then some prep work will need to be done based on how you expanded it the first time.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:46 AM   #28
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It was expanded from using WinMFS. What do I need to do to prep it? So doing a truncated backup and restoring won't be enough? Do I need to use JMFS? If there is a specific thread, just point me there and I can read up on it. Thanks for letting me know before I tried it.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:27 AM   #29
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Since you expanded with WinMFS, you can restore to the 3TB drive that truncated image. Next I would put it in the TiVo to make sure it boots and operational. Then take the drive out. (BTW the best way to shut down the TiVo is go into the menu and choose to restart the TiVo and pull the plug as soon as you see the front LED flash indicating it is starting to boot back up) The next step would be to coalesce partition 14 and 15 into 14. You can read how to do it in my 4TB DIY writeup. If you have questions let me know. Once that is coalesced, put the drive back in the TiVo and let it divorce as it is getting rid of partition 15 information in the header. Once you verify it is operational, then remove the drive and use JMFS to expand. This will add back a partition 15 that is 2TB in length. Put it back in the TiVo and let us know how it goes.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:22 AM   #30
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Thanks for the info. I saw that 4TB thread so I'll look it over. I looked at my old .tbk original is from 10-11-2007 and that may actually be my original backup so I am pretty sure it was WinMFS. I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. May take me through the weekend to read up on the threads but should be educational. Last time I did all the upgrading was back in 2008 so I'm catching up again.

Edit: I should be going to sleep (work nights) but thought I'd do a bit more. I restored the current backup with 11.0m from the 1TB I just made on 3/19/14. Dropped it in the Tivo and it rebooted once, then went to green screen for repair. I pulled it back out and decided to try my old backup from 10/11/2007 that has 9.1 on it and it booted fine and I'm now connecting to Tivo to get it updated to the new version. I'll see how that goes. In WinMFS, it only showed 14 partitions but maybe the 15th is added after booting in the Tivo. I'll see when it is done. Should probably work on this after I sleep.

I think I read that JMFS can only add a 2TB partition so if this was my original image, I wouldn't get to 3TB. I'm off to sleep. I'll need to deal with this when I can think straight!

Here was the map from the first restore from 3/19:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309550767 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310083248 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 1048576@310615728 ( 512.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@311664304 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@312188592 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@312778416 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 Apple_Free Extra 4294967295@313368240 ( 2.0T)

Last edited by murryamorris : 03-26-2014 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Add info
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